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Nyx & Titania Dev Workshop


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23 minutes ago, zhellon said:

 

Titania can already ignore most of the damage due to small hitboxes and razorfly. DR mods and healing are just personal modding tools.(like armor mods) I use DR mods and I don't see anything wrong with it. But I also see that DR mods are just an auxiliary tool for increasing survival, since I go through most sortie missions getting zero damage, although Titania doesn't have invulnerability or invisibility. The only problem is keeping the normal form alive, but the normal form is actually useless and simple invisibility in a normal form would help a lot and would have a lot to do with the concept of fairies, because the true form of a fairy is very difficult to see, and a small form is a fake in most concepts.

Yes, she can ignore most of the damage, but this is implying that I am in razorwing mode.

What if I'm not? I have guns that I want to use as well, along with a melee that is not a Diwata.

Titania is a warframe needs her 4th ability in order to do ANYTHING. Without her 4, she effectively does not exist in the game.

her normal form lacks survivability, lacks support help, lacks any proper CC. (Lantern is not a CC ability. Its a hindrance.). Her first 3 abilities needs a complete overhaul. Not QoLs like "selecting our own tribute buffs", but needs to be replaced entirely. Dust is arguably her only useful tribute, until you reach lv70s, where the buff effectively is removed. Spellbind is used as a hard trigger for razorwing blitz, and not used for it's lackluster CC (it needs to affect all enemies not the ones I'm looking at ffs.). Thorns give 40% DR, but is that really useful when I want to take her to high levels, where Dust does not work?

Also WHY TF does Entangle exist? its literally does nothing.

I can only imagine the pain Nyx players are having, considering Titania is still somewhat more used than Nyx is.

Edited by Aadi880
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2 минуты назад, Aadi880 сказал:
What if I'm not? I have guns that I want to use as well, along with a melee that is not a Diwata

This is why I want to use a normal weapon in razorwing. If I want to use a normal weapon in a normal Titania form, I'll just take the Wisp.

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On 2020-01-21 at 2:42 PM, (XB1)Vile Slanders said:

Finally, Tie Razorflies into Titania's Passive Ability; make it so Titania can generate (and maintain) Razorflies outside of Razorwing; maybe add a fancy Butterfly stencil meter that counts how many times Titania has cast her abilities, which resets and grants a single Razorfly once an established quota of casts has been met (Every 5 casts, Titania generates a Razorfly in and out of Razorwing; up to a cap of 10 Razorflies total; I.E. use Abilities 50 separate instances, receive 10 Razorflies.).

Those, combined with the modular Razorfly suggestion listed above, comprise my recommendations for a Titania Rework; adjusting her present kit to accommodate performance expectations. Wukong & Nezha have received jaw droppingly well conceived Reworks that have elevated them from Bottom Tier to Top Tier. Adopting the adjustments listed above should achieve a similar result for Titania, by making every single skill of hers more valuable and less situational/hindering.

 

Better than a cast count would be timed generation, similar to Octavia's energy regen.  Just automatic razorflies at all time (unless they get killed, at which point you may need to hole up to get your entourage back.)

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

Not QoLs like "selecting our own tribute buffs", but needs to be replaced entirely

Honestly her 2 COULD be useful with more QoL/Buffs. They all need to be reworked

Dust is RNG based and has scaling problems.

Thorns could be renamed and just give DR in an higher amount or make the Reflect damage 5,000%, but then the argument becomes "why have reflect damage on a squishy frame"

Entangled needs to be completely replaced, or slow fire-rate. (also buffed maybe?)

Full Moon should buff all your weapons not just companions. 

 

Making the enemy that you casted Tribute on have a higher chance to drop energy orbs would be a really nice.

54 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

lacks any proper CC

Her 1 is a really good form of CC. The main problem is that it makes it annoying to kill enemies unless you can 1 shot them. Which is a pretty easy fix in my opinion.

Another issue is that it only makes enemies drop their guns, not fully disarm them. This also can sometimes slow down missions as the enemy will always run back to pick up its gun.

This would make spellbind an amazing "Survivability ability" for Titania, enemies can't kill you if they can't shoot you or melee you. Not to mention the Status removal.

 

54 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

Lantern is not a CC ability. Its a hindrance.

The biggest problem with lantern is the line of sight aspect of the ability. This ability is amazing when it works. Key word being when.

Enemies being able to move it is a big problem. Players being able to move it is also somewhat of a problem but not as bad as enemies moving it in my opinion.

Some QoL changes to make it a lot more reliable would make this ability easily one of the best CC abilities in the game.

Allowing it to proc heat in its damage radius would also be nice.

 

I could care less if they scrapped her first 3 abilities but I feel like most of the hate she gets for her 1 & 3 are that the enemies float off too much. Plus 70% of the time it just does not feel rewarding to use them.

 

 

Edited by Pixzia
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I just tested a max rank titania's lantern with no mods against various lv100s. Super disappointing.

Next, I tested the same thing but with a max strength build. Not only was it highly impractical but it was still disappoiting.

Finally, I tested a heat only chromatic blade with 100% status chance, just enough dmg to mimic a max rank titania lantern with no mods, and all other mods on excal and exalted blade were taken off. This was basically a "what if titania's lantern could proc" test. Using the same group of mixed lv100s, making sure to avoid headshot bonuses, and hitting only once per second, I gotta say... it's not bad. The base stats of the ability itself could use a slight buff, and that "if you hit a lantern'd enemy they bounce like a balloon" aspect has gotta go imo. But, if lantern could just proc its dmg, it would actually be pretty viable as a hybrid cc/dmg ability.

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1 час назад, Pixzia сказал:

Dust is RNG based and has scaling problems.

Not quite right. Razorwing's Evasion is an RNG. The accuracy of enemies is a characteristic of the spread of the enemy's ammo. And I think you're increasing the angle of this spread. 

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1 hour ago, zhellon said:

Not quite right. Razorwing's Evasion is an RNG. The accuracy of enemies is a characteristic of the spread of the enemy's ammo. And I think you're increasing the angle of this spread. 

My bad.

Still simi-RNG though, making a circle bigger or smaller does not decrease the chances of something landing in the circle just the chances of it hitting an arena in that circle. Which still makes it rng as there is nothing too say that an enemy could not hit the same spot 7 times. It is still within the cone.

2 hours ago, Yun_Woo-Seok said:

But, if lantern could just proc its dmg, it would actually be pretty viable as a hybrid cc/dmg ability

The dmg itself is not my reason for allowing it to proc its status. The ability to temporarily remove half an enemy's armor that gets close to the lantern it why this would be a nice change. (I just care more for the proc in general than the added benefit to Lantern's dps)

  

2 hours ago, Yun_Woo-Seok said:

I just tested a max rank titania's lantern with no mods against various lv100s. Super disappointing.

Care to explain why you were disappointed? Were you only testing the damage or the ability as a whole?

Edited by Pixzia
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Well, if we talk about the Lantern as a CC, then I would just make it an object, because it will be more convenient to position it, unlike flying enemies. Could also make a couple of settings, like taking spellbind's ability to make opponents drop their weapons. And speed up the speed of enemies moving to the center of the Lantern, so that the Lantern becomes more effective for collecting enemies in a pile. (Nova has already tested this mechanic and says that people love when mobs are accelerated, but so far mobs don't fire.)  Just make sure that Titania can take the Lantern in hand, because this is a cool mechanic that will actually allow you to bring enemies to where you need them. (nidus will be pleased). What about ArmorStrip? Well, if the enemies are in a pile, then pox will solve the problem faster than any ability.

In fact, if you have a good CC, then the damage ability (unless it's nuck, which I wouldn't want to see on Titania) can simply be replaced with an AOE weapon. In principle, Lentz + Lantern works now, but very poorly.

Yes, I know this is a massive disarm + Vauban vertex in the form of AI control, but it may work very well, given the mobility of Titania, it may give CC to the entire map.

Edited by zhellon
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27 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Well, if we talk about the Lantern as a CC, then I would just make it an object, because it will be more convenient to position it, unlike flying enemies. Could also make a couple of settings, like taking spellbind's ability to make opponents drop their weapons. And speed up the speed of enemies moving to the center of the Lantern, so that the Lantern becomes more effective for collecting enemies in a pile.

Basically most of the changes I want.

 

27 minutes ago, zhellon said:

What about ArmorStrip? Well, if the enemies are in a pile, then pox will solve the problem faster than any ability.

Still feel like it being able to proc heat would be an overall benefit.

Edited by Pixzia
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17 часов назад, Pixzia сказал:

Still feel like it being able to proc heat would be an overall benefit.

As a maintenance of the heat status, Yes. If you have a powerful weapon with heat proc, then due to the endless accumulation of damage, this can be useful. Of course, I don't know how useful this will be at the 9999 level, but at the 1000 level it is quite possible. You can, of course, do as with Vauban, but I would prefer that the damage razorfly scaled than Lantern. 

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Titania changes sound decent!

Nyx on the other hand....is definitely not an interesting frame and these changes don't really address the core problem with her: mind control is a terrible ability. The AI in this game isn't good enough to place any value in it. Even the wukong celestial twin is an idiot. The only reason it's useful is because he has an aimbot.

Instead of focusing on mind controlling npc, focus more on telekinesis to manipulate the battlefield and do damage. Instead of mind controlling a single idiot npc,  make it an AOE that drives them insane and does damage.

Nyx would need a pretty serious rework to even consider equipping.

 

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I'm a little late to this party (haven't read the entire thread), but with Titania Prime being the next prime, according to release dates, I figured I'd chime in:

I want to like Titania a lot more than I do. She has a good concept and I enjoy flying around. She just feels paper thin, and everything except her 4 is currently useless with their costs/stats/durations/effects.

As a primarily melee player, abilities that make enemies float away ... are bad.

I would never use her Spellbind (1) at the current cost and radius. With a MUCH higher range, if the radius for the friendly buff was tuned for how spread out squads get in open worlds, the immunity to status effects MIGHT find use in casual eidolon hunts, or other conditions when status immunity would be beneficial, especially if it worked against eximus leech energy drains, knockbacks, grapples, etc (I haven't used her in a long time, and don't know if any of that has been tested if it works or if it's intended to work).

Her Tribute (2)... is something I generally forget about because random is bad - reliable is good (at no point after... maybe Pluto, do I care about the damage Thorns does, for instance. Nor do I care about my companion's damage with Full Moon... I just want them to be a utility effect carrier, like Primed Animal Instinct). Dust and Entangle could be good if they were reliable effects... but it's a 50/50 coin flip if a tribute will be worthwhile (without memorizing which enemies give which tributes, and targeting only the enemies that give the tributes you want.)

If tributes somehow contributed to restoring Titania's energy economy, it would be better ... like collecting a tribute paused or reduced the energy drain of her 4 for its duration... so I'd use it for the reliable effect, and the short duration random stuff would be a side benefit. An extra razorwing around me has hardly ever been noticable.

If Tributes healed her health for each pickup... even that would be better. (she really does need a way to restore her health.)

Her Lantern (3) is far too short range and limited by line of sight. Having the lanternized enemy float away... is horrible. If Titania could create a Lantern object and grab hold of the lantern and carry it around (even in flight mode)... dropping it on command, when she gathered enough enemies, then wipe them out with squad nukes or melee. Kinda like becoming a controlled version of Octavia's Resonator ... that could be useful.

Her Razorwing (4) flight mode. In open worlds, she needs to not count as an archwing for insta-kill missile attacks... really. How long does that need to be a thing? Otherwise, as I mentioned, her only really useful ability.

It would be cool if the Archwing Intrinsic buffs also worked on Titania during Razorwing (unsure if they already do).

 

 

 

 

On 2020-01-24 at 12:07 PM, Yun_Woo-Seok said:

Instead of all this back-and-forth about razorwing's vacuum, what if we get rid of the vacuum and give the itzal's 3 to razorwing?

Universal vacuum of a reasonable size where you don't have to go too far out of your way, would be great for all frames, but especially the tiny flying Titania.

If people are concerned about "But my energy orbs get wasted!"... the setting doesn't have to be a binary Off/On... there could be customizations, like:

  • "Universal Long-range Vacuum." I don't want to miss a thing... OR...
  • "Vacuum everything except Health/Energy/Ammo" requiring you to walk through those to get them... OR...
  • "Vacuum Health/Energy/Ammo only when it would not be wasted." (taking into account buffs that increase gains from orbs - no more collecting energy orbs that just refill 1energy during a constant drain ability.)

There are ways to make it work for everyone. Even Railjack's new "drops are shared with the squad no matter where they are, EXCEPT Health/Energy/Ammo" would work outside of Railjack when in a squad.

 

Edited by (PS4)AyinDygra
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Nyx thoughts:

  • Mind Control(1) is worthless, most everything dies before you can cast single target abilities.  Nyx needs something to help keep her alive like damage reduction or something like "After image" that acts pretty much exacly like Saryn's Molt.  You drop a copy of yourself that draws fire and speeds her up or gives her some energy regen based on the damage it absorbs.
  • Absorb(4)'s explosion NEEDS to be 30m range by default.  This needs to be a map nuking power.  The current range of an absorb explosion is to short range to be of any use to damage anything.  Whereas if it was a map nuker then everyone would learn to shoot nyx in the face every time she pops a squat.  

Theres not really a case to use strength with nyx,  So her Psychic Bolts usually only provide the crappiest debuff amount....  Maybe make it so that if an enemy under the effect of psychic bolt is killed by an enemy under the influence of chaos it causes the dead enemy to fire off 6 more bolts to the nearest enemies so it spread kinda like spores (just the debuffs, no damage)

But right now the only things I bother with are her 2 and 3.  4 if I am in a defense mission and the objective is taking damage.

 

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Yes, Nyx will be behind because it has already received its Prime... If Titania didn't get anything from the last rework that made it neither better nor worse, then Nyx only got worse. They actually took away the disarm, which was the only passive ability that kept Nyx in the top CC, replacing it with a useless passive ability that Dust. And I think the Titania players know that Dust doesn't work very well.

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7 hours ago, zhellon said:

Yes, Nyx will be behind because it has already received its Prime... If Titania didn't get anything from the last rework that made it neither better nor worse, then Nyx only got worse. They actually took away the disarm, which was the only passive ability that kept Nyx in the top CC, replacing it with a useless passive ability that Dust. And I think the Titania players know that Dust doesn't work very well.

I find the Pacifying Bolts augment for Nyx's Psychic Bolts actually an underrated yet overpowered cc.

While its not great for "Defense" mission (literally any kill to skip), that cc will not be overwritten by any other cc like how Heat's cc can be overwritten.

 

And yeah, Nyx need another rework especially Mind Control and Absorb

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I think Nyx's 1 could be saved if the mind controlled enemy could actually be controlled.

I disagree with how her 4 "needs to be" a map nuker. Especially if requires friendly fire because 1) it requires cooperation, something suprisingly sparse in warframe and 2) it drains WAY too much energy WAY too fast. Map nuking as a psychic themed frame just doesn't fit. The only thing I can match to map nuking being ok on nyx would be something like "I command all you enemies within an X meter radius to believe you see something scary and scare yourselves to death". idk...

And by no means were either of her passives good. Inconsistency being the downfall of both. But yeah, her previous "disarm" passive was better.

My ideal Nyx changes would be this:

Passive: enemies affected by Nyx's abilities are disarmed if they were within X meters from cast

1: Mind Control: Target can once again be damaged by enemies but Mind Control now lasts infinitely or until target is killed/released. Press 1 to cycle target between attack, defend, and steal. Attack defaults the target to seek out enemies and gives dmg buff to those within a Xm radius. Defend commands the target to hold position at targeted location and gives armor/shield/health(depending on faction) to those within Xm radius. Steal defaults the target to loot corpses with X% chance, and commands it to hack targeted consoles instantly(e.g. alarms, interception towers, orb vallis bases, etc.). Hold 1 to use commands. Hold 1 while looking at the target to release it.

2: Shade Mist(new): Nyx exudes a dark aura that seduces nearby enemies into a deep slumber. Get an aura for X duration with X range. Enemies within the outer range are slowed. Enemies closer to the center are kept asleep, and stay asleep for X duration if they're no longer in the center.

3: Chaos: Enemies now lose their armor/shields in all the chaos(pun intended).

4: Oracle: Pushing herself to the limit, Nyx opens her third eye to see all and know all. Channeled ability. Nyx sees all enemies even through walls within X m radius, and deals 1.25x dmg to enemies in this state.

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I agree that Nyx deserves a bit more love still.

All my other frames have been hunting liches without trouble, up to rank 5 ones even.
While a rank 1 lich, just insta-sniped Nyx every time.

The new frame Wisp, has tons of more armor, and can even heal/buff her survivability.
Nyx just has to stand there, and eat it.
Unless you like being immobile, and cast her 4.
Which has been nerfed, and now eats energy at an alarming rate at these levels.
Making the ability one, you'd rather not use.

Give her something like; mind controlled target eats some of the damage she receives.
Or allow her to be somewhat mobile (without augment) when using her 4.

Psychic bolts and mass chaos are the only abilities I catch myself using mostly.
She is great at making a whole pack go crazy.
Then allowing her to wall latch somewhere safe, and launch ordenance into the area.
I love that about her.

But all it takes is 1 napalm to the face (when going for a thrall mercy), and I get to politely ask Helios, when he is going to revive me.

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10 hours ago, Yun_Woo-Seok said:

I disagree with how her 4 "needs to be" a map nuker. Especially if requires friendly fire because 1) it requires cooperation, something suprisingly sparse in warframe and 2) it drains WAY too much energy WAY too fast. Map nuking as a psychic themed frame just doesn't fit.

-Absorb CURRENTLY does some base damage, as well as damage from enemies, AND any damage your allys pump into you.   Its not required,  But you can CHOOSE to help a nyx out and pump up the damage of the blast.  

-Drain is something you guys can mitagate with mods.... effeciency and duration.  I just unlocked my ivara prime so I got dragged away from Nyx again but I know my absorb cost 35 energy so I dont know how much effeciency I have but that made it last a decent amount.  I run Zenurik school on Nyx and dont really have problems getting my energy back.   I bet you guys are running the augment so you can move around which just makes you run it non stop? 

Beyond the energy drain/cost it doesnt matter because why would you even use absorb??  WIth such a tiny aoe anything that close to you should be dead anyways.  

-Absorb is a tiny nuke now....  making it a big nuke takes it out of the realm of psychic theme?? Seriously??? Its just a matter of range.  Nerf the damage into the ground if you want.  Tiny damage across 40-50meters(modded) is infinitely better than ANY amount of damage in a small area.(10-20meters currently modded).   Chaos can get to 50-60 meters so dont say Nyx doesnt have the power to reach that far.  

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Will the changes to Lantern shown off in Devstream #137 be applied to Spellbind as well?

Can we expect a bug fix for mods not applying to projectiles while in Razorwing? This has been around for years!

 

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There's an upper limit to Titania's DPS that is easily surpassed by Rhino or Chroma + Riven.  Maybe Blitz should also increase the amount of ammo Dex Pixia has?  Or as a baseline mechanic for Razorwing, each Tribute increases the max ammo in Dex Pixia and maintaining all 4 gives you unlimited ammo.

Edited by WhimsicalPacifist
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And again DE disappoints...

Some of the fixes are nice and all, but they still don't get to the core of the matter: Titania's kit sucks! her powers don't synergize at all with each other.

Tribute effects don't scale with enemy level, making dust progressively useless - besides being a defensive power based on freaking RNG

Tribute effects still not moddable.

At least selectable tribute should do away with the stupid soulcatching mechanic slapped on tribute for no reason than to make it more annoying to use.

No news about Titania's razorwing controls... so we still keep the crappy noclip flight mode.

Dex Pixia and Diwata would both benefit from extra slots or extra mod points and improvements to their stats - we can hope her prime brings better weapons.

She is the most forma hungry frame in the entire rooster, needing forma for herself and two weapons and she is still underperforming.

Give razorwing additional benefits, remove the razorflies and slot them as a separate power with controls similar to Khora's pet.

Fold Lantern and Spellbind together: lantern is basically Spellbind with a swarm of razorflies added!

Razorwing augment is unusable with current razorwing due to the lack of acceleration and deceleration/inertia with current crap controls.

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On 2018-11-28 at 3:36 PM, Amebot said:

Finally, my psychic queen will rule again. Thank you!

For the Razorwing getting a vacuum tho, I'm slightly worried because it will take in more energy orbs than I need and screw up my energy economy. I stopped using vacuum years ago because I want to pick up energy when I really need it.
Imagine you turn on Razorwing with full energy and there are 3 energy orbs around you. You've been saving them for later. Razorwing starts draining your energy and vacuum gives you 3 orbs worth of energy within the first second. 50 energy for 299/300 energy. They're absolutely wasted.

Some ways to turn this into an advantage:

  • Code her vacuum to only pick up energy when she's 50 energy from maximum and not a second before.
  • Develop a system that gives you small percs for picking up energy past the maximum and cap it at ~130% (meaning that you can pick up 30% more energy past your maximum and spending that energy on powers gives you (for example) 10% more duration or movement speed).
  • Make a vacuum on/off switch in arsenal.

    Any of these would work nicely.

    Anyway, thank you for working hard! ❤️

I love Titania and use her often. Your answer is that it's very easy to manage your energy orb efficiency with her while in razorwing by simply flying above them till you need them. I have not found this to be a problem at all. This said, I go max efficiency, prime flow, and with dual energize arcanes. I realize most players are not so well equipped.

ALSO, This is not the first time I've said this on this thread, but I feel a need to stress that Titania needs a way to replace and heal her drones consistently and predictably. Since it seems we're going to be able to choose the buff we get now from Tribute, I suggest they make the one that buffs drone damage to a heal and replacement buff. Perhaps with a kill requirement like Nekros #4 ability.

If they fix this one last issue of drone healing, I think she'll have finally reached a state of perfection.

Edited by (XB1)Taz Deduction
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On 2020-02-01 at 5:17 PM, (XB1)Taz Deduction said:

Titania needs a way to replace and heal her drones consistently and predictably

She already can.

"Titania's kills during Razorwing will restore health to Razorflies."

Though this requires YOU to get the kill and the Razorfiles not being dead already.

Could have also added that if don't have all your Razorflies that it will respawn 1 after so many kills, but this won't fix the underlining problem. They just die too quick in higher level missions to be useful (if you are not constantly going in and out of Razorwing).

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The tribute is already affecting razorfly, just add the healing there.

But I wouldn't worry about the life of razorfly if they spawn as nidus larvae.

Another point, energy for razorwing is not the only problem. Razorwing is the only thing in which Titania is unique. And when I say razorwing, I only mean archwing mode. Everything else that Titania can do, nidus can do. Nidus can be invulnerable to statuses by redirecting it to an enemy. Nidus can pile up enemies better than Lantern. Nidus has good buffs for allies. Nidus has razorflys that are on the ground and do a lot of damage. And Nidus has an augment that makes his weapon very powerful.

The problem is that if you can't play archwing mode, you go to a different frame that does everything better than Titania. And in order for you to play archwing mode, you must set full energy efficiency, flow, 1 arcane energize, at least 200% strength, and arcane pistol firerate. That is, you literally invest only in 1 ability, only to fly and deal damage slightly greater than a person with a normal weapon.

The problem is that razorwing is three abilities that are combined into one. Remove the exalted weapon in a separate ability and you will no longer need so much strength, because you can ignore the exalted weapon ability and use normal weapons. Let the exalted weapon take the energy drain with it, and then you don't need any more energy efficiency in all builds, because you can get the exalted weapon temporarily, as mesa does for example. 

People also ask for razorfly as a separate ability, because it really feels like a separate ability. At the same time, there is a spellbind that uselessly occupies the ability slot and the status of immunity could become part of the Tribute. For example, you can use Dex Pixia / Divata simply as an additional weapon against complex enemies even at 45% energy efficiency, because it will take you 1, maybe 3 seconds to kill the enemy and disable it. But when you play razorwing this way, it's just not fun.

Well, Dex Pixia/Divata doesn't have any good mechanics. Some normal weapons have their own unique mechanics, like ferrox for example. And the problem is that razorwing also deprives us of the opportunity to use a fun weapon, giving us just ratatatata. I understand that Dex Pixia/Divata could get unique properties that would make them better, but I would prefer to have both options because I am very greedy.

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On 2020-02-03 at 10:24 AM, Pixzia said:

She already can.

"Titania's kills during Razorwing will restore health to Razorflies."

Though this requires YOU to get the kill and the Razorfiles not being dead already.

Could have also added that if don't have all your Razorflies that it will respawn 1 after so many kills, but this won't fix the underlining problem. They just die too quick in higher level missions to be useful (if you are not constantly going in and out of Razorwing).

Right, we need to be able to respawn them faster without constantly going in and out of razorwing.

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