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Nyx & Titania Dev Workshop


[DE]Rebecca

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Hi, All!

We're going to cover the Ability refresh of two of Warframe's most elegant gals: Nyx and Titania!

Nyx, wielding the power of Psychic energy, makes CC and defense her specialty. We're going to add a flavour of 'debuff' to that to increase the roles she can play in a mission.

Titania has CC and Offense with a pile of Auras she can maintain to stack buffs and debuffs. Our plans with Titania come down to making all of that a little less of a hassle to pull off.

As far as usage stats go - Nyx (when combined with Nyx Prime) and Titania hover just above bottom 10 on average for our playerbase. They certainly have a niche and those who know their Abilities well know how big an impact they can have on missions. We hope those who already love Nyx or Titania keep the love alive, and those who wrote them off take a second look!

 

Nyx

Nyx is one of our earliest released Warframes, making her appearance in the Closed Beta version of Warframe! Since that was more than 5 years ago, we are taking the time with this rework to also completely re-do her audio as well. Still rooted in what we know, we'll be updating her sound library to 2018 standards. Your ears are in for a treat!

Now, onto the powers.

New Passive: Enemies can't seem to truly target Nyx and all receive an accuracy debuff against her.

Nyx is receiving a new passive overall, the random disarm was on-theme, but feedback over time has always slanted toward 'new passive, please!'.

Mind Control:

BEFORE:
Nyx picks a single target within Range and brings them to the Tenno side for a given Duration. The problem this had was the target never really felt... powerful.  

AFTER:
Nyx still picks a single target within Range and brings them to the Tenno side for a given Duration - but now she can multiply the damage output of that enemy by her own hand!!

The target will have a 4-second wind up period to absorb your weapon damage which is on a multiplier to enhance its OUTPUT damage. For example only (numbers not final): every 2500 damage = 1.5x damage output of the target
We've also included better 'follow Nyx' behaviour to have the target stay with her.  

This feels really engaging in practice and adds just a bit more activity to your Nyx play - your targets become more valuable and you get to focus on weapon gameplay in the 4 second window to really pump them up! A Nyx should always choose their victim wisely.

Psychic Bolts:

BEFORE:
Nyx launches a cluster of force bolts at enemies, using telekinesis to adjust flight paths and seek nearby targets.
The Number of Bolts and Damage dealt, including a Radiation Status chance made up the entirety of this power.t wasn't unique enough and on its own, it didn't offer enough in high level missions.

AFTER:
This is no longer a flat damage ability, but it is now a debuff. All enemies hit lose a % of defenses (values for Shield/Armor have 20/40/60/80% of defenses removed) for a short duration (5/7/9/11 seconds), making them easier to kill / kill each other when combined with Chaos! Infested will receive a slowing behaviour (not on the same % curve as defenses, still tweaking) + deactivation of Ancient's auras.
We will be doing a presentation clean up as well for more of a 'Psychic' feel in the Telekinesis.
 


Absorb:

BEFORE:
Nyx absorbs all incoming damage and channels that collected energy into an explosive radial discharge that deals Magnetic damage. Magnetic Damage doesn't always perform well, and a single damage type doesn't really feel like an 'Absorb'.

AFTER:
Nyx absorbs all incoming damage and channels that collected energy into an explosive radial discharge - but now we've made the damage type output dynamic based on incoming damage types. If it is fed in, it feeds out!

Absorb is a very unique power - when Augmented it allows for a completely different kind of play. Alone, Absorb gives Nyx immortality in a pinch and can CC with knockdown, but now we've just added another edge in giving it dynamic Damage.        

 


Titania


Titania joined us in 2016 as a part of 'The Silver Grove' quest, and her playful fey and nature inspirations have always been the root of her enchantment-like control and destruction. We're just making those thing a little stronger!
 

Tribute:

BEFORE:
Tribute had to be cast multiple times on multiple enemy types to build up 4 unique Auras on Titania. The problem here was... too much casting.

AFTER:
Simply getting 1 type of Tribute will be enough to have its maximum power. You can continue to acquire tributes to refresh the Duration, but you no longer need to build them up.

As for the 4 Tribute types:
Dust - keep as-is:it reduces enemy accuracy by 50%!

Thorns - increase to 50% of damage reflected back to the attacker!

Entangle - keep as-is: one Entangle tribute slows an enemy by 25%!

Fullmoon - the 75% damage buff now applies to ALL (Sentinels, Moas, Companions)  + Razorwing Butterflies!

 

Lantern:

BEFORE:
Lantern was a single-target ability that could result in wildly bouncing enemies making it hard to achieve the core function of attracting witless enemies.  

AFTER:
Lantern can now be cast on up to 4 targets with better 'tethered' victims. You will be able to 'explode' all targets by holding the Lantern cast.

Razorwing:

BEFORE:
A lot of bonking to pick up loot.

AFTER:
Razorwing will simply receive a Vacuum to make acquiring loot, energy, etc easier. Remember - less of a hassle!

 

These changes have felt pretty great in early testing, but of course are subject to change. If you've been watching our streams you may know most of this already, but we wanted to write it out for everyone to check out! Stay tuned to Fortuna: Part II notes for full information on Nyx and Titania!

--------------

REWORK UPDATE!

So we have been looking at your responses in this thread, and have made some additional adjustments, based on your feedback. These developments are still being tested, and we want to thank you all for your valuable feedback!

Additional Nyx Changes:

  • Mind Control can now be cast while moving, and no longer halts Nyx in her tracks!
  • The cast time for Mind Control has been decreased, so you can better use the 4-second window to ‘power up’ your new minion!
  • Nyx’s passive ability to make enemies miss will be deactivated when she is using Absorb, meaning no shot will be wasted!

Additional Titania Changes:

  • Baseline Energy Capacity increased to hit 225 at Max rank.
  • The energy cost for Tribute has been decreased from 50 to 25.

Work continues, and we are very excited to bring these changes to you!
 

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I am excited to try Nyx out, but I am not sure how I feel about Titania's propositions. Atleast for me, the major issue I had with Titania was how clunky her kit was and how lackluster it was in terms of use. For example, enemy accuracy is irrelevant when it is 0 (shut down CC or dead).

Damage reflection has been underwhelming since the beginning, and this is clearly apparent in the Focus ability to reflect damage.

I understand that Titania wouldn't receive 3 new abilities, but I still only see a use in Razorwing and the parkour passive.

Also, would it be a stretch to allow Aviator and Agility Drift to function in Razorwing? A small niche like that would be quite interesting to use.

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If I understand how this reflect works, Titania gets hit for 100, takes 100 damage, then the enemy gets hit back for 50. Status doesn't get reflected.

This is not apparently useful because in these fights in Warframe, Four Tenno against Hundreds of Enemies, the Hundreds of Enemies have far, far more health than Titania ever will. Compounding this is that an enemy can be replaced but Titania does not have easy access to recovery mechanisms.

EDIT: Later I plan to calculate the degree of reflect necessary to significantly harm (8% of health/shields) a level 80 corpus tech but I think damage through reflection is not a healthy mechanic for this frame.

Here, I think, actually the wiki did the EHP calculation for me. 53,234 health and shields total. 8% of this is 4258. I exposed my Volt to level 80 tech fire and took about 246 damage, so that would need to be multiplied by around 1731% in order to reach that 8% of their EHP, not factoring in damage types. I don't immediately think "Big numbers are scary!" but that should give everyone an idea of what it would take to reflect a relevant amount of damage back to a non-Grineer target. If their armor gets in the way there's no way of having an acceptable form of player damage reflection. This buff, Thorns, absolutely does not make sense in the reality of Warframe.

On another note, the Nyx changes seem very good. I am very happy with the projected changes for Psychic Bolts and I am kicking myself for not saving a set of parts for Nyx Prime. Oh well. Surely, the ability of Nyx to mind control a foe, and then work them into betraying their friends more viciously by shooting or smacking them will put her up there with Khora and Loki as some of the most humiliating frames for Corpus and Grineer to face off against.

EDIT2: Never mind I have most of Nyx Prime's parts. Also had to tweak numbers slightly. I went from 450 to 204 shields, IIRC, not 450 to 206.

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11 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Razorwing:

BEFORE:
A lot of bonking to pick up loot.

AFTER:
Razorwing will simply receive a Vacuum to make acquiring loot, energy, etc easier. Remember - less of a hassle!

Will regular archwing launchers get the same fixes, currently in fortuna it suffers from:

  • No vacuum
  • Sometimes it breaking = instant death for the warframe as well sometimes?
  • debuffs the warframe when you want to just travel that 1-2km bounty stage, so health conversion stacks are gone unless you ride that slow board
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Several things for Titania:

  • Tribute: Her buffs from Tribute should get changed completely, maybe Dust is okay? Not only that, they still don't scale from mods (don't get started on Octavia).
  • Lantern: Increasing the reliability of "attracting" people rather than them ignoring the Lanterns all of a sudden. Make them run towards the Lantern.
  • Casting Animation in general: They're so slow that it's contradicting Titania's small nimble nature; increase it.
  • Base Energy: Just like Mag back before she got buffed, and low energy is a no-go for a caster frame.

Nyx is interesting for sure, especially about Psychic Bolts.

I know it's early since there's a Part II, but I hope DE considers the parts I find troubling with Titania's kit.

EDIT: While Titania's my "main", I prefer to play a support playstyle with her than to use Razorwing frequently. Razorwing ups her survivability significantly, and surviving on the ground without it is difficult. The changes right now just scratch the surface of how problematic it is to survive as a support Titania rather than a DPS/offensive Titania.

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29 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

A Nyx should always choose their victim wisely.

That moment when you get the ancient healers which won't benefit from the changes, and they can be unrealible because the AI barely follows the player. Nyoro~n.

 

 

29 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

AFTER:
Nyx absorbs all incoming damage and channels that collected energy into an explosive radial discharge - but now we've made the damage type output dynamic based on incoming damage types. If it is fed in, it feeds out!

Absorb is a very unique power - when Augmented it allows for a completely different kind of play. Alone, Absorb gives Nyx immortality in a pinch and can CC with knockdown, but now we've just added another edge in giving it dynamic Damage.        

So, the same but it accumulates different damage types? If the same, meh.
I'd say that's a nice change, but alone, not really since you lose Absorb charge very easily (or your team kill every close and you just stood there doing nothing for... almost no reason at all). I'd say it could be better if we could use part of the charged amount to fire a projectile with small AoE, this way she could defend target and still have an offensive method based on the absorbed damage. Kinda like Garuda in a way, but instead of using extra energy to multiply the damage you have, Nyx just charges the projectile with absorbed damage (so you can fire but keep what you want for the radial). That way it becomes less of "I'll stay here waiting to charge and HOPE I don't lose the charge", to "protecc but also atacc".

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Well, good news for my favorite girl, Nyx. The planned rework sounds good, can't wait to test it myself. 

And for Titania, for me like there's some info missing, so can't give too much of a response. But for the damage reflection mechanic, I think they must buff the Razorwing butterfly (add more butterfly, give it more Hp, etc) for it to work better. As of now, even with full butterfly squad (6 I believe) Titania still easily killed in the third sortie mission. 

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So ive got to say that i love the Nyx Changes for the most part however im going to have to ask if the passive works like titania's reduced accuracy IE it does nothing at high level because enemy accuracy scales? Can you please just give both these frames a better form of dodge chance or fix this because as is "reducing" enemy accuracy is useless past like level 60.

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In a frame with no sustain, no tankiness and with a passive and an aura that make hitting it HARDER, the reflect damage seems a bit lost if not completely useless. How about a lifesteal aura? Or a splash damage aura? Maybe even a status protection aura. I think all of those would be a better substitute to the reflect damage aura, which I feel is very disconnected from the rest of the kit.
That said, I appreciate these changes as Nyx and Titania are two of my favorite frames.
Keep up the good work

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10 minutes ago, Ventura_Highway said:

calculate the degree of reflect necessary to significantly harm (8%) a level 80 corpus tech but I think damage through reflection is not a healthy mechanic for this frame.

Good thing it's an aura that applies to the whole group. If you go that way, why have reflect when you also drop the accuracy of enemies? If they don't hit, there's nothing to reflect.

For me, the accuracy debuff is really good to have, slow is decent, reflect and pet damage are meh. It's still fine if all the debuffs are not too strong all the time and allow for fun / varied builds.

More lanterns sounds good, that's a lot more CC. Vacuum during Razorwing will allow much better uptime, and the other skills won't be as much considered waste of energy / Razorwing time.

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Nyx:
- Is the new psychic bolts an AOE or is it still a limited number of random targets. If it's the later it's not really as useful as it seems tbh. You either want to target high priority targets or get them in the AOE.

- are you guys still planning to change the drain calculation formula to make her able to tank longer.

Titania:
- You're still risking to enderdanger yourself by going to pick the buffs on a squishy frame, the accuracy debuff gimmick is just rolling a dice on w/e you get oneshot or not on decent levels and since warframe is about throwing hordes at you it doesn't really matter anyway.

- the buffs are still not worth picking up tbh;

   +Thorns' 25% slow and 10m radius are making this one basicly useless unless you're melee on a squishy frame.

   + The accuracy debuff is just a bad RNG based survivability tool.

   + reflects are absolutely worthless without a heavy multiplier tied to them, this is why you're reworking nyx's mind control after all.

   + Companions damage output isn't really that high to be worth buffing and the bad AI still makes them easy targets in the beasts' case.

- Her animations are super slow.

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9 minutes ago, Descent-of-Damocles said:

Will regular archwing launchers get the same fixes, currently in fortuna it suffers from:

  • No vacuum
  • Sometimes it breaking = instant death for the warframe as well sometimes?
  • debuffs the warframe when you want to just travel that 1-2km bounty stage, so health conversion stacks are gone unless you ride that slow board

A whole lot of what's wrong with Archwing could be fixed by making it work more like Titania's Razorwing:

  • No flips into walls when you just want to strafe-drift round a corner.
  • No removal of up/down controls when you just want to move faster.
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Please look into "Chaos". 

It already does very little against boss enemies and on regular enemies it becomes an annoying skill where enemies barely damage each other to the point of it barely being a CC skill. 

I get the other skills are meant to compliment this now, but it'd be nice if you could make it so Nyx players have to compromise range vs strength vs duration to make a choice as to how to build in regards to Chaos. Such as adding a component where under Chaos enemies do much more damage to each other, with the damage increasing with Strength but reducing by range. 

So you can choose to build a powerful skill that will make enemies decimate each other in a smaller range, or cover a larger area with enemies doing some extra damage to each other.

Right now Chaos is a  very "use and forget" and let someone else with actual AoE skills pick up the enemies that are now chipping damage at each other and not chasing the players. It can get very annoying.  

  

 

 

 

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to be honest i feel like Titania need a larger rework then that.  spell bind and lantern ar basically the same ability but with flair changes. the changes to tribute will make it easier to use for sure but despite the collection process adding some flavor its still a pain in the butt concept and need more then what your proposing. 

latern/spellbind: need to be rolled into 1 ability. shes doesnt need to abilities that basically do the same thing, they already feel like two halves of the same ability.

razorwing: is in a good spot, adding the vacuum will help allot, though a buff to her melee would also be appreciated as it is very lack luster once the enemies level moves up a bit. 

tribute: needs removed and made into an entirely new ability. its a distraction, the user is just chasing around butterflies the whole time instead of staying on mission. would love to see something added that has some high level utility to the rest of her group at the assistance of her razorflies. something like wile active the flies attack things around targets in trouble(within the aura) and CC the bad guys around people at the lowest HP, swarming them and doing damage, this would also work in a way of rolling lantern and tribute together instead of lantern/spellbind. just a random suggestion. you could even cycle attitudes on the flies through press/hold for different effects. this would having s similar overall effect but feel much more fluid. 

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I'd suggest two things for Nyx' Mind Control (though I am not sure if one of them is already possible)

1 - Let us Mind Control large enemies, like Raknoids

2 - Allows us to refresh the ability, so that we don't lose an important ally when the ability expires.

Edit: Bonus - Allow Mind Control to dictate the behavior of the controlled enemy, allowing us to choose a more passive stance, forcing the AI to stay with us (eg.: Ancient Healer), or more aggressive stance. 

 

With these changes, I think building Nyx to have her own "pets" would make her more interesting and useful. 

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So, while I think these changes are a good start, I would like to address Nyx's Chaos, and possibly the Chaos Sphere Augment:

In my opinion, this would be a far better ability if it were a Channeled AoE Ability, similar to how Nekros' Desecrate works.

Activating Chaos would drain energy over time, and create a sphere around Nyx that would move with her as she travels through a level, confusing any enemies that entered it.

The Chaos Sphere Augment could in turn allow the debuff to "stick" to enemies, keeping them CC'd when outside of the ability.

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