Should DE fix old content at the risk of Content Drought 2019 or continue creating new content ignoring old ones?

[seprent]

You are all aware no matter what de does people will come here and complain there doing everything wrong and they should being doing X instread right? 

not to be a downer but DE is swinging a sword thats going to hit them regardless of what they do unless they try to do both in that would take even more time resulting in the community shaking its ankles like its attack on titan due to wait times 
 

man lack of sleep makes me depressing reading that over kinda bummed me out eh gunna go fishing

[evilChair]

Quality over quantity. The game is already so huge that I wouldn't mind DE taking some time to return to older content and polish it up, given that in comparison to fortuna/vallis other stuff looks pretty damn aged while at the same time that other stuff is far better polished than fortuna in terms of optimisation. Warframe is already large enough and I wouldn't mind DE taking a break from constant expansion to focus on revision and tightening up what's already here, if that is a guarantee barring wf from turning into playable bloatware.

[Tsardova]

Depends on the definition of fixes....

 

90% of DE's fixes were nerfs, nerfs, nerfs, more nerfs, rivens, remove, nerf. 

[(XBOX)Boghadir]

Both, but objectively we've been in content drought for over two years.  You either still like farming routines or don't.  In all honesty I really believe they need to go back and start fixing the old iframe bosses no one likes and to start roughing out the edges of starting the game quests since they're still crap.  Circumstances ignoring when WF was first released obviously, but the point isn't made redundant when they make new content early accessible to lower MRs anyway.

I'm personally sick of iframe bosses and old levels no one likes doing because they're annoying, not difficult.  Or the Phobos rush with how poorly designed archwing handling is, or how Lephantis keeps glitching out on sorties when DE swears they fix it.

[LupisV0lk]

11 hours ago, Tsardova said:

Depends on the definition of fixes....

 

90% of DE's fixes were nerfs, nerfs, nerfs, more nerfs, rivens, remove, nerf. 

Golly gee maybe that's what game balance is all about.

[IIDMOII]

Hands down. No question about it. The core game and existing systems need a rework. Big time.

I'd be willing to accept a long drought if they had solid plans to have the game make more sense and have some more structure. 

The game desperately needs a gear score system for starters. If they can define power in a certain way then they can finally tackle end game content and balance it properly.

Levels mean nothing in warframe. Mastery rank means nothing in warframe. They need to nail down another system to determine everyone's power vs one another and the content. 

Until they do that in a sensible way that's easy for new players to understand, there will be no end game. All the gear and mod combos need to contribute to a global gear score that can be used to determine each players power (currently equipped).

It would be a lot easier to eventually develop an endgame if all the current gear could be neatly calculated into a number that makes sense.

There's no way to even tackle endgame content unil they actually tell us what the development goal is. Nor can it be done if everyone is so wildly different in power.

They can keep adding on to it like they have been and have a mess of systems that don't even work together or take a step back and finally decide what the long term road map is. 

[Vox_Preliator]

On 2018-11-29 at 11:25 AM, ShortCat said:

While this list seems impressive, a lot of those changes can be boiled down to some number adjustments, especially in regards to weapons. Most of the "revisited" stuff, like the 100k crafting cost for incubator can be seen as a conceptional oversight right from the start and could be avoided althogether, if more time would be spend on Quality Controll. Other changes are so insignificant, I couldn't even tell you there was a change in the first place.

And as I already said in my first post, they have to do both. Every business has to do both parts - maintenance and expansion. Furthermore I said, that they should do better resource managament, because DE often launches half-baked products just to ship something and move to the next bigger project. And then the time comes when those unfinished chlidren bite them in the rear and they have to do double load of work.

I am also kinda curious whether this whole thread isn't a bait, since you are awfully familiar with all the stuff that was reworked this year, for a person who is apposing this idea. Together with "bleeding playerbase" face news.

Ah, I was waiting for the "It doesn't count because I say so" non-argument.

[LSG501]

Realistically they could do multiple things at the same time if they 'split things up into smaller teams'....it often seems like they just put 'everyone in one basket' when things are being done, like everyone was working on fortuna at the expense of everything else. 

DE could easily set it up so

1 or 2 people work on reworks of warframes/balancing abilities etc, it's not like it took Pablo long to rework Saryn for example (not that everyone likes the changes but it was a one person jobl) or we need them all done in one week. 

1 or 2 people work on cosmetic fixes, there are plenty of little things like clipping of models that need looking at imo.

1 or 2 people work on deluxe skins/bundles.

2-5 people working through our list of bugs and fixing them or 'moving them up the food chain' if they can't be easily fixed.

Another couple of people to take notice of players and implement things to fix topics of discontent ie high level content, lack of things to do on PoE/fortuna, better AI, enemy scaling etc.

 

We're a pretty patient and accepting bunch of players when you think about it because there are A LOT of issues with the game, some of which affect things we've actually paid for too, so I'm sure we could live with 'monthly' changes to things like warframe abilities, cosmetic fixes etc, as long as we actually see something being done. 

Actually the lack of 'communication' is part of the reason many of us are so annoyed over the operator rework, they've made a lot of them considerably worse but now it's completely silent if they're actually going to fix things we've paid plat for...

 

[Zgwortz]

I continue to be highly amused by those who considered 2018 having "content drought".   I've played a lot of games over the years, and I've *never* seen so much new content released for one that I've seen in Warframe in the roughly 8 months I've been playing.  Not even close.     It's kind of insane how DE manages to get so much new content out in such a short period of time.   And yet, the complainers keep going on about "content drought", so much so that even DE has started to believe it themselves.



 

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, Zgwortz said:

I continue to be highly amused by those who considered 2018 having "content drought".   I've played a lot of games over the years, and I've *never* seen so much new content released for one that I've seen in Warframe in the roughly 8 months I've been playing.  Not even close.     It's kind of insane how DE manages to get so much new content out in such a short period of time.   And yet, the complainers keep going on about "content drought", so much so that even DE has started to believe it themselves.



 

It was a content drought... by Warframe's standards.

To put it into perspective, I joined about summertime last year (god has it really been a year and a half?) sometime after Chains of Harrow - I'm gonna say Early august-ish since I can't remember the Release of the Lenz but do remember the release of Hydroid Prime. That was just after the release of six weapons and Harrow and I was soon greeted followed by two more weapons with Hydroid Prime and shortly thereafter another three. That was from the end of July to the start of September last year.

So, yes, relatively speaking, it's a content drought. I suppose we ARE a little spoiled compared to some games .

DE really do not F*** around, do they?

[Meraki_h4ashes]

would be great if they could rework the old content, some missions are borring as hell and some maps just dosn't look as goods as something like fortuna. Doesn't ask for an open world for everything, but when you see how well made and beautifull is fortuna, would be great for a remake of the old

[Kerberos-3]

On 2018-11-28 at 11:37 PM, Jokie155 said:

Considering most 'new content' has been effectively abandoned with issues and bugs remaining, I'd much rather have zero 'new development' for an entire year in favour of finally fixing the trail of mess left behind.

Arbitration still sucks and will screw you out of rewards.

Sanctuary Onslaught will lag out, fail to spawn enemies at any kind of usable pace, and will even outright deny rewards by not updating with the rotations.

Eidolons are still bugged to hell and an absolute chore to fight with lousy tunnel-vision team compositions.

The Sargent is still a boss despite all the things Nef Anyo is now involved in?

Archwing still lacks meaningful variety, has awful drop systems and overall is just clunkier than ever.

Rivens still end up with some truly awful veils that don't even match up with similar things like in Fortuna. (Looking at 'target takes no damage' including shield damage for veil, but not for bounty target)

No more open worlds, no more game modes to grind and forget about. Just flat out fix what is broken.

Lets not forget that Ceres still doesn't have a proper boss, and the temp boss they went with is a giant middle finger to solo players.

[CyberPrimate]

I'd prefer if they would consolidate what they have created so far.

There are plenty of ancient bugs and many outdated things that require lots of fixing, polishing, updating and full on reworking.

But I guess that from a business perspective this would not be the best strategy. Unless they are ready to go for a long run in which case consolidating your progress and achievements is the key for successful longevity.

 

[S.Dust]

Thing about fixing old content is I don't feel like it would take long. But on a side not they just went through their longest content drough and need to recover from that cause fortuna was quick to finish.

 

Edited December 1, 2018 by S.Dust

[Tsardova]

9 hours ago, LupisV0lk said:

Golly gee maybe that's what game balance is all about.

Golly gee, maybe game balance wouldn't be out of whack if riven wasn't introduced in its current form, or if they bothered improving enemy scaling, or if rework priorities are given to frames that actually need them? 

 

Maybe they could've worked on adding unique functionality/ frame synergy with weapons like having cc capabilities on some of the less popular weapons. But ofc it's just all about numbers and downgrading things is the easiest for "rebalancing" purposes eh? 

 

I'm all for game balance, don't get me wrong, just that DE's agenda has been questionable at best on "balancing" things. Other frames in dire "need" of attention for rework = Saryn gets more that made her even more broken on "endgame", etc. 

 

No, this isn't me bashing on DE; just placing my observation on their odd agenda management/ take on "re-balancing" things.

[blazinvire]

I do feel like DE's job would be a lot easier if they shored up the foundational gameplay mechanics and such of this game, put some systems in place so they're not constantly manually futzing with numbers.  All the time they spend tweaking numbers of individual weapons or warframes is time they could spend on other stuff; build a program to assign stats, get some data harvesters up and running, and then fire-and-forget.

I was told programming is about being creatively lazy: doing a lot of work so a robot can do all the work for you.  Stop doing work a robot is perfectly capable of doing.

[Zgwortz]

7 hours ago, blazinvire said:

I do feel like DE's job would be a lot easier if they shored up the foundational gameplay mechanics and such of this game, put some systems in place so they're not constantly manually futzing with numbers.  All the time they spend tweaking numbers of individual weapons or warframes is time they could spend on other stuff; build a program to assign stats, get some data harvesters up and running, and then fire-and-forget.

I was told programming is about being creatively lazy: doing a lot of work so a robot can do all the work for you.  Stop doing work a robot is perfectly capable of doing.

Heh.   Do you think they don't do that already?  The time they spend tweaking numbers of individual weapons and warframes is almost certainly a result of those data harvesters.   The problem is a point of diminishing returns and decision making - at what point does a bot/harvester take more time to code and maintain to do X vs when it's faster or better to do X by hand?   The final tweaking is almost certainly done by hand because it would take a serious AI to make those same decisions - which would take FAR more time to code than the hand tweaking.   Programming isn't being creatively lazy - it's all about knowing *what* to be creatively lazy about and what isn't worth doing so.   DE is pretty smart about such things - odds are good that for anything they could code a bot/data harvester for, they've already long done it.

Further, the people doing that tweaking are almost certainly *not* taking away "time they could spend on other stuff" - because on a project like this, there are MANY people doing different stuff.   The person doing the tweaking isn't going to be the person designing the next cinematic quest, or the person fixing texture maps, or the person scripting enemy AI.

[(PSN)teacup775]

DE is going to have to fix old content in the sense that recent quests and additions, like Sacrifice breaking certain lua challenge rooms, kuva missions chronically breaking the camera, arbrations breaking sortie defense targets, fundamentally are problems with spaghetti code. Spaghetti code is usual consequence of old code bases, which wframe is one.

Code like that slows development, eventually reaching critical mass where nothing can be done without breaking something or a lot of things.

They’ve refactored the UI but it is still a broken mess in the navigation and arsenal menu; random actions crop up where they didn’t before.

Also because older content piles on, the mountain of stuff newer players must wade thru becomes daunting, and the path up that mount is not marked within the game. The consequence is an emotionally disengaging game, or much less than it could be.

Engagement == player base. So,yeh.

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

For 2019, I'd like to see all new content put on hold until all platforms are caught up. It's time. If you don't understand why consider this...

Imagine a set of twins running down the stairs on Christmas morning and only one of them gets a gift. The parent tells the giftless sibling,"We want X to test out the new bicycle." So until February 1st giftless twin watches their sibling riding the bicycle...

That's pretty much how updates feel like on console. Thank goodness for arbitration and my quest to use up all 4500+ relics before I die, to take my mind off of not having Fortuna yet. Huge Sad Face

[(PSN)teacup775]

On 2018-11-28 at 10:39 PM, NaoEthelia said:

At the risk of content drought, though? We've already seen the content drought caused by revisiting old contents. Would you be okay with that?

The fixes he’s asking for seem to be in the vein of make them worth playing. 

That qualifies as new content.

[(PSN)teacup775]

On 2018-11-28 at 10:41 PM, NaoEthelia said:

As the saying goes, chase both bunnies and you lose both. DE already chased after fixing old content and developing new content both and unfortunately, Content Drought 2018 was the result of that. 

Yet, if they reworked the basic starchart,  enriched the story line and did it in a way that end gamers could also enjoy it, they'd kill two birds with one stone. It would take some imagination but surely it’s possible. New players could play at one level, vets at another, but the story elements are the same. Or maybe paduans just get slightly different elements when playing with vets.

As content piles on, newer players face a mountain of crap to farm. Some happy medium where people can reasonably advance and get resources to advance needs to be part of the process (like new players play at one level and see accelerated resource drops for select crafting items).

[Meraki_h4ashes]

il y a 22 minutes, (PS4)supernova_girlie a dit :

For 2019, I'd like to see all new content put on hold until all platforms are caught up. It's time. If you don't understand why consider this...

Imagine a set of twins running down the stairs on Christmas morning and only one of them gets a gift. The parent tells the giftless sibling,"We want X to test out the new bicycle." So until February 1st giftless twin watches their sibling riding the bicycle...

That's pretty much how updates feel like on console. Thank goodness for arbitration and my quest to use up all 4500+ relics before I die, to take my mind off of not having Fortuna yet. Huge Sad Face

It will never happen and they already said why a thousand time

[Loza03]

8 hours ago, Tsardova said:

Golly gee, maybe game balance wouldn't be out of whack if riven wasn't introduced in its current form, or if they bothered improving enemy scaling, or if rework priorities are given to frames that actually need them? 

 

Maybe they could've worked on adding unique functionality/ frame synergy with weapons like having cc capabilities on some of the less popular weapons. But ofc it's just all about numbers and downgrading things is the easiest for "rebalancing" purposes eh? 

 

I'm all for game balance, don't get me wrong, just that DE's agenda has been questionable at best on "balancing" things. Other frames in dire "need" of attention for rework = Saryn gets more that made her even more broken on "endgame", etc. 

 

No, this isn't me bashing on DE; just placing my observation on their odd agenda management/ take on "re-balancing" things.

I kind of feel like the enemy scaling point is really accurate here. DE does have this weird habit of only balancing us, not the enemies. And when they do they tend to do it rather haphazardly since we literally fight the same enemies at level 15 and level 100.

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

17 minutes ago, gabriouchka said:

It will never happen and they already said why a thousand time

Well, aren't you going to tell me? I missed it. The live streams are usually on when I like to play so I don't really get to watch many of them.

[AtsiaZ]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)supernova_girlie said:

Well, aren't you going to tell me? I missed it. The live streams are usually on when I like to play so I don't really get to watch many of them.

Well I can't recall any specific instance, they've said multiple times that they must put out new content if they want to survive. It's what makes or breaks them. They also said they wouldn't put any specific emphasis between putting out new content and fixing old content, and we've seen what happens when they focus a bit more on fixing, even though they said from the get go that they would do a bit more reworking this year.