Planes of Duviri Speculation

[Kerberos-3]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Okay, okay...What the $&@“ is up with the long arm...Orokin were supposed to be symmetrically arrogant specimens of power and beauty.  Clearly it’s a physically  symbolic reference to how corruption has warped them...Does it serve a function?

We need lore to tie it together.

Beauty is subjective, and it's possible that it had a function. Either way, the only Orokin things we've met are the Elder Queen(aka Bilsa, who is not a particularly good rep for the Orokin), Teshin, Excalibur Umbra, and Ballas.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

14 minutes ago, Kerberos-3 said:

Beauty is subjective, and it's possible that it had a function. Either way, the only Orokin things we've met are the Elder Queen(aka Bilsa, who is not a particularly good rep for the Orokin), Teshin, Excalibur Umbra, and Ballas.

Okay, so as I said, we need more lore.

Is this new character like the Qweens?

A Ballas/Executor Sycophant trying to emulate his look?

Do other Executors even look like non-Sentient-Slave-Satyr Ballas?

[Kerberos-3]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Okay, so as I said, we need more lore.

Is this new character like the Qweens?

A Ballas/Executor Sycophant trying to emulate his look?

Do other Executors even look like non-Sentient-Slave-Satyr Ballas?

Possibly. You know, the Orokin seem pretty contradictory. They (seemingly) valued symmetry, yet the only one we've met has an asymmetrical form and they apparently hated twins.

[(XBOX)MalikimDean]

There is of course another line of thought here.

If we examine who we already have in the game. We have the Grineer...the builders. We have the Corpus...the merchants and the Orokin, who were the rulers...perhaps these are another created race, or an echo from the past. Perhaps they are a scientist race/ group, or maybe a true religious cult, worshipping the Orokin as gods

 

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

Looks to be the protégé of some Orokin Executor that eventually overcame him. Perhaps it’s a low guardian? Or the servant behind him is the low guardian? Maybe it’s not pure Orokin at all but the next step down in the hierarchy. Who knows. 

Having a new faction could spice things up. Maybe they could help us with our sentient problem. Then Ballas gets to be ruler again 🤔

Edited January 19, 2019 by (XB1)A Excal Umbra

[moodster]

6 hours ago, Rukako122 said:

Steve wrote planes and said he kept the misspelling. So it should be plains and not planes.

he said intentionally mispelled or intentionally spelled the way it is. It wouldn't really make sense for orokin type faction to be on outdoor earthly "plains"

Edited January 19, 2019 by moodster

[TheVeiledScion]

My guess is that this is essentially some sort of Grineer-like Orokin faction that lives in the Void: 1) Duviri (duoviri/duumviri) indicating two rulers, like the Queens, 2) that Grineer/Dax-looking servant in the background, 3) the throne with Tower-like construction, and 4) the “planes”, indicating planes of existence/higher dimensions.  Of course, this could also be some group that’s imitating the Orokin and Grineer, but the similarities to both factions is striking.

[TheVeiledScion]

3 hours ago, Kerberos-3 said:

Possibly. You know, the Orokin seem pretty contradictory. They (seemingly) valued symmetry, yet the only one we've met has an asymmetrical form and they apparently hated twins.

This is what I’ve not liked about the new art direction.  The Orokin are supposed to be about perfection, symmetry and uniqueness, with gold irises and perfect skin.  Ballas is the farthest from Orokin, and possibly having an Orokin faction in his likeness only obscures that. If they want to change the concept of the Orokin, they should just go back and remove all references to their symmetry and perfection. Otherwise, I do think they need to explain this.  I’ve been waiting for the “cold, gold Emperors” to show up, just because of how epic it would be to face them (in some form), but this isn’t it.

Alternatively, if they explain that the Orokin are actually these asymmetrical blue beings from another dimension who came and took over and took human bodies (with Ballas simply choosing to appear in their true form), it might be acceptable (and interesting).

[Kerberos-3]

21 minutes ago, Arktourus said:

This is what I’ve not liked about the new art direction.  The Orokin are supposed to be about perfection, symmetry and uniqueness, with gold irises and perfect skin.  Ballas is the farthest from Orokin, and possibly having an Orokin faction in his likeness only obscures that. If they want to change the concept of the Orokin, they should just go back and remove all references to their symmetry and perfection. Otherwise, I do think they need to explain this.  I’ve been waiting for the “cold, gold Emperors” to show up, just because of how epic it would be to face them (in some form), but this isn’t it.

Alternatively, if they explain that the Orokin are actually these asymmetrical blue beings from another dimension who came and took over and took human bodies (with Ballas simply choosing to appear in their true form), it might be acceptable (and interesting).

Hmmm, perhaps Ballas might be a rogue case. He might not have looked like that in the old days.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

I have a hunch that they are going to be being from another dimension.

I expect that like Void Fissures or Infestation they'll overrun tilesets, & or be a new destination we visit through the void or something.

Possibly remnants of void lost Orokin, or straight up Void Demons.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

10 hours ago, Arktourus said:

My guess is that this is essentially some sort of Grineer-like Orokin faction that lives in the Void: 1) Duviri (duoviri/duumviri) indicating two rulers, like the Queens, 2) that Grineer/Dax-looking servant in the background, 3) the throne with Tower-like construction, and 4) the “planes”, indicating planes of existence/higher dimensions.  Of course, this could also be some group that’s imitating the Orokin and Grineer, but the similarities to both factions is striking.

Maybe.  A bit of a Dune Vibe.

[Karinia]

I personally feel these peoples are somehow connected with the orokins but they maybe not orokins just another faction whom want inherit some elements from the orokin culture and dominate a segment.

[Primed_ToiletWorm]

The only important thing here is - There need a new operator mechanic to kill them or we can kill with our frames them without hesitation? Just saying my guns are ready.

[DerGreif2]

I still think they have nothing to do with the orokin. The orokin are a mix of the infested (healers). corpus (shipman) and grineer (gunners). This kind of creatures look different so I would assume that they are not connected with the orokin or even the enemy of them in the past.

[Loza03]

18 minutes ago, DerGreif2 said:

I still think they have nothing to do with the orokin. The orokin are a mix of the infested (healers). corpus (shipman) and grineer (gunners). This kind of creatures look different so I would assume that they are not connected with the orokin or even the enemy of them in the past.

Um.

No, those are the Corrupted. They're serving the Orokin by virtue of being under mind control from the Neural sentry (the things on their faces.)

The Orokin had their own fighters and army, and were a civilisation unto themselves.

[Corvid]

19 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Okay, okay...What the $&@“ is up with the long arm...Orokin were supposed to be symmetrically arrogant specimens of power and beauty.  Clearly it’s a physically  symbolic reference to how corruption has warped them...Does it serve a function?

We need lore to tie it together.

 

17 hours ago, Kerberos-3 said:

Possibly. You know, the Orokin seem pretty contradictory. They (seemingly) valued symmetry, yet the only one we've met has an asymmetrical form and they apparently hated twins.

Technically, the quote where we get the Orokin idea of "symmetry = beauty" is specifically referring to their visage (in other words, their face). Ballas (and the mystery thronesitter) both have perfectly symmetrical faces.

19 minutes ago, DerGreif2 said:

I still think they have nothing to do with the orokin. The orokin are a mix of the infested (healers). corpus (shipman) and grineer (gunners). This kind of creatures look different so I would assume that they are not connected with the orokin or even the enemy of them in the past.

Question: How far are you into the game? Because without spoiling much, there is a very good reason behind us associating the thronesitter with them. What you are referring to are the Corrupted, who are the Orokin's enslaved thralls.

[NodDragon]

My guess is that they might be Orokin, but not the kind we are normally used to. After the Arid Eviscerator, Destron Crewman and Guardsman synthesis we know of some of the classes, these being Archimedian, Executor, Sectarus, Council and Enginus Class. We also know that a Dax followed an Enginus to go against a Sectarus (even though Sectarus is higher class than Enginus, thus the Dax most likely had a free will). Finally in the Guardsman synthesis it is state that the Enginus Alarez might have wanted to rebuil the empire. Thus my guess is that the Planes of Duviri is the remain of mid/high class of the Orokin who got away after the collapse and slowly started rebuilding and with the loss of access to Kuva started to use machines as they could not perform Continuity, while most likely hiding in the Void. 

 

(About the symmetry and beauty, it is mentioned in the Corrupted Ancient Synthesis that "The Orokin had a visage imbued with variation, beauty and symmetry, but we had the Lora nodes protruding from our right temples. Their skin was silken, ours was weaved with ribbons of metallic facia that snaked around our bodies and into the Lora Device embedded in our palms.". Anything I have found about their symmetry mention the visage.)

Edited January 19, 2019 by NodDragon

[Aldrr]

It would not surprise me if these were the few surviving remnants of the Orokin elite who survived into the story's present time.

Lacking the means to enter cryostasis or to use Continuity, they resorted to replacing their failing organs / body parts with cybernetics.

They rule with impunity, tucked away in their own little corner of space, with the local population firmly under their boots.

They still dream of restoring the empire... or at least preserve what they can of the old ways, in their own twisted way.

Another spin I could put on this comes from the "planes" bit: they may not even inhabit normal space as we know it. They could be living in the void, in an Orokin tower that (so far) has remained undiscovered by the other factions.

Edited January 19, 2019 by Aldrr

[rand0mname]

On Ballas looks: standards of beauty change over time (and how!). Orokin elite life span was very long... I guess after a millennia you stop caring about latest trends and go for what you personally like?

IIRC, Ballas concept artist used Hindu deities (skin), Greek statues (proportions, face, clothes) and Japan origami (for the cloak) as reference. Oh, and Ballas had black teeth in concept too (Japan onaguro). Variety!

The arm however was never explained. This is the only thing that I just do not get. Was it ever considered beautiful in our history somewhere?

Edited January 19, 2019 by rand0mname

[DerGreif2]

34 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Question: How far are you into the game?

MR20 and all Quests done. Maybe I have missed some pieces. If you know more pls tell me. I love the lore. But right I have missed that. Lotus and Ballas are Orokin right? And they (the orokin) created the Grineer and Sentients. The Corpus are in my opinion humans that workship money but have their roots at the orokin empire. Infested are a weapon that backfired and the sentients more kind of warriors. Am I right so far?

Still dont know what we tennos truly are. Are we Orokins? Or do we also where created by them to control the frames?

Edited January 19, 2019 by DerGreif2

[rand0mname]

43 минуты назад, DerGreif2 сказал:

MR20 and all Quests done. Maybe I have missed some pieces. If you know more pls tell me. I love the lore.

Well... Then you get into a Void extermination, Lotus says that the defense system in Void towers called “Neural Centry” brainwashes intruders and turn them into Corrupted. So they guard the tower. Seen that weird face decorations? This masks are control devices. Creepy awesome so far. And then WF comic had to show the process -.-. Masks fly in (?!) and latch on the heads of intruders. Sorta lame.

Anyway, anyone who walks into a tower uninvited can be “corrupted”. I an not sure if Warframes are considered “friendly” by default or if we use some sort of protection.

For Orokin themselves: small pieces of lore are sprinkled all over the game. It forms a picture. With a lot of missing pieces. Not a pretty one.

You probably already stumbled into most of it, but just in case:

1. Symaris research (not the daily task, the console on the left).

2. If you scan Kurias, you can get some poetry that will give you more insight on them.

3. Voice transmissions, especially in Cephalon fragments.

4. Rhino Prime, Mag Prime, Ember Prime Codex entries. And Stalker.

5. Prime trailers are narrated by Ballas.

If you do not like scanning, everything can be found on Wiki.

Edited January 19, 2019 by rand0mname

[OniDax]

1 hour ago, DerGreif2 said:

I still think they have nothing to do with the orokin. The orokin are a mix of the infested (healers). corpus (shipman) and grineer (gunners). This kind of creatures look different so I would assume that they are not connected with the orokin or even the enemy of them in the past.

You mean the Corrupted, not the Orokin. The Corrupted enemies aren't actually Orokin.

50 minutes ago, rand0mname said:

On Ballas looks: standards of beauty change over time (and how!). Orokin elite life span was very long... I guess after a millennia you stop caring about latest trends and go for what you personally like?

IIRC, Ballas concept artist used Hindu deities (skin), Greek statues (proportions, face, clothes) and Japan origami (for the cloak) as reference. Oh, and Ballas had black teeth in concept too (Japan onaguro). Variety!

The arm however was never explained. This is the only thing that I just do not get. Was it ever considered beautiful in our history somewhere?

Sounds pretty imperfect to me. But we can thank Keith Thompson for that (he's the concept artist). He doesn't really seem to care much about the established Orokin lore. I'm not sure why, though. I guess he's got absolute freedom to design things without regard to lore. It's his choice, but it makes the existing lore kinda pointless imo. What's the point of adding lore if artists and developers don't adhere to it and, in some cases, actively contradict it? I found the existing lore to be quite interesting with regard to the Orokin, but I really feel like DE has ruined them with Thompson's take on Ballas.

Edited January 19, 2019 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

[HugintheCrow]

41 minutes ago, DerGreif2 said:

MR20 and all Quests done. Maybe I have missed some pieces. If you know more pls tell me. I love the lore. But right I have missed that. Lotus and Ballas are Orokin right? And they (the orokin) created the Grineer and Sentients. The Corpus are in my opinion humans that workship money but have their roots at the orokin empire. Infested are a weapon that backfired and the sentients more kind of warriors. Am I right so far?

Still dont know what we tennos truly are. Are we Orokins? Or do we also where created by them to control the frames?

Lotus is a sentient spy who made her mind into a copy of an orokin, the conflict between her original programming and that orokin's love for Tenno made her what she is now.

Proto-corpus existed contemporary to the Orokin, and now the Corpus consider themselves rightful descendants of them.

Infested and Sentients were made by orokin, Ballas was a big guy in both projects, all because he wanted to destroy the empire from within, cause they killed his love interest (the woman Lotus took her mind from, Margulis).

Margulis took The Tenno in, and this caused the orokin to hate her and then they killed her.

Tenno are orokin children who were transformed by a catastrophy onboard a ship called zariman 10-0. That event gave them void powers.

Warframes are infested people, who were origianlly great warriors or impportant people, Ballas made them into warframes so they could fight against Sentients, but they went feral, so Tenno were needed to control them.

@Loza03 Got it right?

[CriticalFumble]

7 minutes ago, DerGreif2 said:

MR20 and all Quests done. Maybe I have missed some pieces. If you know more pls tell me. I love the lore. But right I have missed that. Lotus and Ballas are Orokin right? And they created the Grineer and Sentients. The Corpus are in my opinion humans that workship money but have their roots at the orokin empire. Infested are a weapon that backfired and the sentients more kind of warriors. Am I right so far?

No.  

Ballas was one of the highest members of Orokin society.  He's largely responsible for the Sentient, as well as Warframes, and the Tenno indireclty.  

The Grineer are clones genetically enginered for manual and menial labor that had a slave rebellion sometime during the decline of the Empire.  Apparently lacking the ability to build new DNA imprints like the Orokin did, they started re-cycling their own cloned DNA to make more Grineer, ultimately resulting in a kind of inbreeding-like genetic decay, dramatically shortening their lifspans and forcing many of them to use mechanical prosthetic limbs.  

Corpus are apparently decended mostly from working/merchant class Orokin society, deriving their name from a term for "family" or "extended family".  They revere the Orokin, the Void, and money in so much as they're effectively an authoritarian Plutocracy.  

The Sentient(s) was a self replicating machine sent to lay a FTL rail to a nearby star system, terraform, and possibly do other preperations.  However, they gained, suprise, sentience and turned on the Orokin for a somewhat unclear reason.  The Orokin were concerned about the possiblity of them going rogue and so made sure that they were vulnerable to energy from the Void, which was apparently supposed to be fatal, but they turned out to be able to survive it to an extent, though it made them unable to regenerate broken parts and create new Sentient units.  They could adapt to hazards and co-opt high tech machinery, forcing the Orokin to find a workaround to fight back.

The Infestation has an unclear origin, including the hive mind; but the Orokin built or modified at least one strain intended to be used to - 

Spoiler

turn humans into organic drone units, immune to Sentient influence and far more durable and capable than a normal soldier.  The result was too wild for the Orokin to control until they realized the Tenno could directly control them.  This is how they manage to turn the tables in the Old War. 

The Lotus is -

Spoiler

A Sentient infiltrator unit.  At the end of The Sacrifice, you can see that her face is made of segmented plates, and that there's an energy glow shining through the cracks.  It's unclear "who" she is given her apparent side change in Apostasy, but previously she had decided to swtich sides against the Sentient and declined to harm the Tenno, adopting them as her children because of her being steralized by the Void beforehand.  

 

[NotVayHek]

All I know is I think they patched Biz's dialogue when you buy a trophy blueprint; I remember hearing him mention how my latest purchase would "be fit for the wall of a Duviri lodge," but now when I buy one, it's just "fit for the wall of a lodge."