Chat Moderation Changes and Additions Report!

[Chewarette]

How surprising, another rant to rework the Auto-Kick coming from someone who gets kicked everytime he says something in the chat.

Hint: Maybe, maybe, the problem comes from you.

I didn't read all your rant because it's probably the usual rant about "point of view", "I'm a nice guy", "that is über-easy to develop, believe me, I'm a bus driver" or "freedom of speech" nonsense, but I'm pretty sure that even you know that nobody can take your post seriously with this amount of hatred inside.

[5H4DE]

Hmm, would it maybe be a bit better if instead of kicking players right off the bat, the bot could delete the message and send a warning via PM first? At a 2nd offense then it should kick them.

[WhiteMarker]

1 minute ago, TheRealShade said:

Hmm, would it maybe be a bit better if instead of kicking players right off the bat, the bot could delete the message and send a warning via PM first? At a 2nd offense then it should kick them.

Wouldn't it be better if people stopped using insults and bad memes all the time?
OP used the N-word as an example. But why removing just the N-word? If someone used that word, they clearly don't know how to behave. So why wait for a second offense to ban them? Ban them right away.

Almost everyone uses region chat without a problem.
And then there are a few people that get banned. This isn't a problem of the system. The banned people are the problem.

And DE is working on a change of the system, so that you get a PM about the reason for the ban. So people don't have to ask in the forum about it.

[Hobie-wan]

Obviously things aren't and never will be perfect, but the steps toward improving things are appreciated.

On 2019-02-11 at 2:54 AM, (XB1)Erudite God said:

"No profanity" is one of the rules we have. Seems simple enough, right? However, you can drop as many f-bombs as you want without any threat of getting kicked, unless you follow it immediately with a "you." Even "f u" to nobody is an instant ban. But if you use the f-bomb as just an expletive/adjective, it's A-OK, and even the chat mods don't do anything about it.
 

If you drop an f bomb because something happened and you lost some sweet loot or you just missed a nitain alert, it isn't a big deal. If you go on a tirade and keep dropping bombs left and right, a mod will tell you to chill out if they see it (and leave the person in chat). I've seen it happen plenty of times in the past, at least on PC where I play.

The problem with that rule if you consider it as black and white is that they could make it no profanity where any word deemed to be so would be removed or get a kick/ban or they could not have the rule and there would be people using f bombs every other word. So we have a reasonable kind of middle ground leeway even though it says "No profanity". If they tried to clarify how it is actually treated it then they'd have to say "No extended string of profanities", "Only occasional profane outbursts", or "You are allowed no more than 3 profane words in a 1 hour period". That would be even worse to understand if people even read it. But lots of people don't even pay attention to that block of text that appear when chat loads at all since problematic people can't even follow the cut and dried "No Spamming" and "Be Respectful" parts.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

10 hours ago, MagPrime said:

DE has stated they don't want to provide a list because that will give trolls a tool to create workarounds and bypass the system.

I understand the stance and generally support the tactic. But a glance at region chat tells me that the trolls and bigots can already bypass the system. 

 

10 hours ago, MagPrime said:

DE encourages players to use common sense regarding appropriate topics in Region chat.  For the most part, you'll never go wrong if you stick to Warframe related topics.

Except for having seen screen shots of someone getting banned for asking "is using equinox to help trap animals on the plains still the best way to unlock veiled rivens or is there a better way". 

The list seems to be populated with things that weren't well thought out. Since the bot lacks the ability to distinguish context, it falls to the curators of the list to ensure that it only triggers on the types of phrases you want blacklisted. It takes more work than just tossing new terms on at whim, but ultimately is time better spent than countless bans for false positive. 

10 hours ago, MagPrime said:

Breaking the rules results in a harsh and lasting punishment to deter repeat offenses.  For the most part, this works rather well.  Besides, it's not much of a punishment if you don't learn anything from the experience.  The "nuke it from orbit" moderation style leaves a lasting impression on players, even if they aren't recipients of the ban. 

I support harsh bans for breaking the rules. I don't support the system that hands out harsh bans when rules haven't actually been broken, and punishes ignorance of arbitrary terms equally harshly. What you learn from that system is that it is broken. 

 

10 hours ago, MagPrime said:

I like the concept but on the other hand, maybe don't talk about things that have you saying the N word in public channels?

I'm given to believe that the chat system can be made to filter terms instead. If this is the case then it should be possible to create a universal filter that would eliminate the need for the kickbot's function. Again I have no problem with banning people for intentionally breaking the rules. I favour skipping the nukes and going right up to kinetic bombardment, but not when I'm seeing proof of such a flawed blacklist. 

10 hours ago, MagPrime said:

38 million users, I don't think the kickbot is doing as much damage as you assume. And if someone leaves because they can't blast public channels with offensive content, I really don't see that as a loss to the community. 

That would work better if you can safely use inoffensive terms. Our system currently doesn't offer that. 

10 hours ago, MagPrime said:

The point of Region is determined by DE.  You see it as a place to burn time, others see it as a resource for information.  

Muting people is a good strategy but, as pointed out in an archived and locked thread, DE also has to deal with Canada's anti-hate speech laws, so they are forced to engage in moderation to keep their company from being fined.  (I have a feeling that if that legislation wasn't in place, moderation would be a lot more lax)

Since DE has not banned the use of region chat "to burn time" it seems safe to assume that they don't think of it as exclusively one or the other, don't you think? 

And please understand, I have never been banned from chat as far as I know. I have been warned by the bot about not using the region chat to trade, but that was a false positive. (And the response I got from players was that the bot is dumb like that.) I have no problem accepting that "their house" means "their rules". I am usually strongly pro-moderation. I also used to moderate in an Irc using a script similar in function to the chat's kickbot. 

I know the entire playbook, both the good and bad sides of it. 

There are serious flaws in the system. Both the automated and the human sides need a very serious review, because what I have seen suggests that some of what we are having problems with, is not the direct result of DE policy, but rather the effects caused by individuals or groups within the system using the leeway to steer it in their own direction. 

 

[Kaizal]

12 hours ago, peterc3 said:

One of the quickest pivots from claimed maturity to demonstrated immaturity I think I've seen in one of these Concerned Citizen/The N-word is a matter of opinion type posts. Kudos. 

Id really appreciate if you can leave your baggage before entering a discussion. I NEVER, at any point claimed The N-Word is a matter of opinion, the N-Word has historically been a slur, the only reason I used the N-Word as an example, is because I don't have a list from where I can get an example of words DE considers inappropriate, and I assume(even though I never used it) that DE doesn't approve of it.

Also why are we talking about this? Cant you just read the post, instead of assuming what it says before even reading it? How can you give constructive criticism if you don't even bother to read opposing opinions?

[Kaizal]

12 hours ago, Chewarette said:

How surprising, another rant to rework the Auto-Kick coming from someone who gets kicked everytime he says something in the chat.

No, this simply isn't true.

12 hours ago, Chewarette said:

I didn't read all your rant because it's probably the usual rant about "point of view", "I'm a nice guy", "that is über-easy to develop, believe me, I'm a bus driver" or "freedom of speech" nonsense, but I'm pretty sure that even you know that nobody can take your post seriously with this amount of hatred inside.

I welcome all comments that take the time to read my post, but this overgeneralization its just making you look dumb.

[Kaizal]

13 hours ago, MagPrime said:

DE has stated they don't want to provide a list because that will give trolls a tool to create workarounds and bypass the system.

First off all thx for taking the time to read my post, and give constrictive criticism.

This is true, it will work as a tool for trolls to bypass the system.

This is how it works today, All the player base has to be on guard about not using certain words, that they don't know which ones are. And some trolls get filtered, but any decent troll can already bypass the system.

I find it more important to work to make rules that work best for the greatest amount people in the community, and I don't care that much if some trolls make a benefit out of it, because it will benefit the community overall. Also the troll part can be bypassed as well, just make it that in the report system, if someone reports a troll that is clearly bypassing the system, by saying a word that is not allowed, just triple the suspension time that you would have used for the use of that word.

14 hours ago, MagPrime said:

DE encourages players to use common sense regarding appropriate topics in Region chat.  For the most part, you'll never go wrong if you stick to Warframe related topics.

I don't agree on the commonsense argument, in real life you see time and time again that something moral, ethical and responsible can be illegal. And this happens also on Warframe, wich you basically admit when you say "for the most part", I don't know about you, but i've talked with tons of superchill Warframe players that never offended me at all, and I never saw bad intentions in the, getting suspended repeatedly, just as I get suspended repeatedly, for what I consider unfair suspensions.

Also if you translate this to real life, its like saying people shouldn't know the laws, because its easier to bypass them if you do, this is true, but what happens is not that laws aren't accesible to the public, they just try to make the laws better, wich is what I think DE should be doing. I don't agree with a fear based system that is this sloppy.

14 hours ago, MagPrime said:

Breaking the rules results in a harsh and lasting punishment to deter repeat offenses.  For the most part, this works rather well.  Besides, it's not much of a punishment if you don't learn anything from the experience.  The "nuke it from orbit" moderation style leaves a lasting impression on players, even if they aren't recipients of the ban. 

Of course a fear based system is gonna work, i'm just saying it would be much less fear, and much more awareness, if the players could know first hand what they are not allowed to say.

14 hours ago, MagPrime said:

There are several phrases that were removed due to auto kicking that are provided in the above link.  Due to that example, I fully support automated kicks and removals. 

Well I was very emotional at the time of writing this thread, and yes you are right, there are words that are offensive by themselves alone, and I don't mind them being in an autokick system, However only those words that are offensive disregarding context should be allowed to be in an auto-kick system, everything else will be unfair just by the nature of the regulation, the reason you see the context argument being thrown around a lot, its because its right, context matters.

It is a longlasting impression, so I think the impression it should give is "you are not allowed to be trying to offend other people", not "Why the #*!% did I just get suspended for?"

So for anything the AI isn't intelligent enough to asses if its worthy of a suspension, it should just be flagged, I don't see how this has any downsides, and I see a lot of upsides to it.

14 hours ago, MagPrime said:

I like the concept but on the other hand, maybe don't talk about things that have you saying the N word in public channels?

The only reason I used the N-word as an example is that I know for sure that is suspension worthy even if I don't have a list, and I never used it, however this is not the case with most words. Glad you liked the concept.

14 hours ago, MagPrime said:

Not sure how the games rating should have any bearing on how you talk.

If I game has 6 year olds on it, don't you think I should be more careful with my language, that when im talking to a 18 year old? I really think an older person should be mature enough to not freak out when he gets offended.

Ive gotten insulted in this game, and I don't mind it at all, because im mature enough to take it, and because ive to wonderful tools that I do like, report and ignore.

If anyone wants to give me more constructive criticism over my discord, or insult me, im up for it, here is my ID Kaizal#4449

[Kaizal]

On ‎2019‎-‎01‎-‎31 at 5:20 AM, (XB1)Erudite God said:

There's still no way to know how long you get banned for. It would REALLY help if instead of simply saying "Your access to in-game chat has been suspended" it said "Your access to in-game chat has been suspended for 1 week for the following reason: blank."

This would clear up TONS of confusion and hugely benefit naive people who haven't figured out the rules yet. For example, chat says 'no profanity' which clearly isn't a real rule since you can basically drop as many full f-bombs as you want. If you say "F U" (verbatim) to nobody in particular, however, you get banned.  

Give this man a beer, honestly, why isn't this implemented yet, knowing the extent of the punishment and why you are getting punished is basic.

[Kaizal]

I still stand, that the filter should be client side, and with no punishment. Then if the troll bypasses that, because of the warning, you can just give him a much harsher punishment than the one you would have delivered in the first place, now this offense would come from a report. Making it so you know someone has actually been offended by it, giving you more legitimacy to make a suspension. Also i've no idea how my thread got made a part of this other thread, i'm confused af.

[Kaizal]

13 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

Wouldn't it be better if people stopped using insults and bad memes all the time?
OP used the N-word as an example. But why removing just the N-word? If someone used that word, they clearly don't know how to behave. So why wait for a second offense to ban them? Ban them right away.

Almost everyone uses region chat without a problem.
And then there are a few people that get banned. This isn't a problem of the system. The banned people are the problem.

And DE is working on a change of the system, so that you get a PM about the reason for the ban. So people don't have to ask in the forum about it.

I clearly see now that using the N-word as an example was a bad call, the thing is, I don't have a list of what DE considers suspension worthy, so I gave an example of something that is obviously suspension worthy, and yes using slurs should be automatically punished, however(and I cant say this with any real certainty because I don't have a freaking list) many of the words DE bans on their own, DO depend on context to determinate if they are ban worthy. So on those cases either just let the players report, or make the kickbot just flag it.

Ive to disagree on that most people use region chat without a problem, if you strart talking to players that spend a lot of time in region chat youll quickly see that either one time or another, they got suspended unfairly(unfairly under my terms, clearly is fair under DEs terms, wich I don't agree with).

The people that get suspended are not always the problem, just look online there are tons of people that got suspended unfairly, im not saying bigotry should be allowed, im just saying that kickbot shouldn't make the called on what is bigotry, except on the words that are offensive by themselves.

Also I don't see why a strike system while it wouldn't be my first option, is so disliked, that's literally how the forums work, and it gives room to not have to process every single thread time and time again to see if a ban isn't worth it. Just simply because the strike will wash off in one year. 

[(PSN)abbacephas]

2 minutes ago, Kaizal said:

(unfairly under my terms, clearly is fair under DEs terms, wich I don't agree with).

These are the only terms that matter.

[Kaizal]

1 minute ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

These are the only terms that matter.

On the face of whether or not to deliver punishment, clearly, on the face of whether or not something is properly justified, not so much, which is why i'm discussing here, because I acknowledge that power, and want it to be more fair regarding moderation. Im well aware that I don't have a vote, but ive a voice, and will make use of it.

Let me ask you, if DE were to ban you right now, because they considered highlighting messages from other people in the forums is inappropriate, without ever getting a warning of that being the case before that, would you just take It and say, oh yeah, they have the power I wont even complain.

Because that's what happening in-game right now, people are getting suspended for things they didn't even know were forbidden, and saying "its common sense" or something like that doesn't cut it, people should be well aware of the words that are forbidden and the regulations in place. Also this is a lack of consistency on DEs side, Forums work this way, with clear rules for everyone to read, the game itself has terms and conditions of service, so I don't see why chat should be any different, The "putting out a list would make trolls life easier" has never been a problem for DE so far, with is it one now?
 

[(PSN)abbacephas]

11 minutes ago, Kaizal said:

On the face of whether or not to deliver punishment, clearly, on the face of whether or not something is properly justified, not so much, which is why i'm discussing here, because I acknowledge that power, and want it to be more fair regarding moderation. Im well aware that I don't have a vote, but ive a voice, and will make use of it.

Define "properly" and "fair".

 

12 minutes ago, Kaizal said:

Let me ask you, if DE were to ban you right now, because they considered highlighting messages from other people in the forums is inappropriate, without ever getting a warning of that being the case before that, would you just take It and say, oh yeah, they have the power I wont even complain.

Me personally? I wouldn't care. But then, I don't take online interactions seriously.

 

13 minutes ago, Kaizal said:

Because that's what happening in-game right now, people are getting suspended for things they didn't even know were forbidden, 

Ignorantia juris non excusat

 

16 minutes ago, Kaizal said:

The "putting out a list would make trolls life easier" has never been a problem for DE so far, with is it one now?
 

What lists have DE put together that makes you say this?

[Kaizal]

32 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Ignorantia juris non excusat

That is one of the first principles that makes part of any legislative system, basically ignorance of the regulation, doesn't exempt you from getting the punishment, except in those cases you have access to what this laws are, they don't just vagely say, "behave apropiattely.

35 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Define "properly" and "fair".

Taking context into account would be a nice start.

36 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

What lists have DE put together that makes you say this?

Not exactly list of words forbidden, but having a list of words forbidden is basically a regulation, wich DE so far, has no problem making their regulations public, not on the forums at least, if you get your post deleted, you get to know why that happened.

37 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Me personally? I wouldn't care. But then, I don't take online interactions seriously.

What about if they banned your in-game account? you still wouldn't care, sorry but I don't buy it, I don't buy that someone would make an account on the forums, which is a platform that is all about giving constructive criticism, if they didn't thought they didn't at least have a chance to make a difference, and wont care if they get silenced unfairly, I just don't believe it. And if that is the case why are you even bothering to answer to me? Why do you waste your time on something you consider unimportant?

[notlamprey]

Gotta say that I agree with a lot of what @Kaizal is saying here.

It's disappointing that I still see so much sealioning and strawmanning and other forms of nonsense aimed at people who have the gall to be critical of DE's system. It's very difficult to improve anything if you can't first accept that it isn't perfect.

The people saying "hey this isn't perfect" are integral to the long-term health of anything, because everything falls apart over time. If we reflexively insult and dismiss criticism, we're choosing to sink to the bottom of the lake because we think pushing to stay afloat isn't necessary.

There are good, interesting suggestions being presented and it's sad to see them received with such pointed negativity.

[Kaizal]

19 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

Gotta say that I agree with a lot of what @Kaizal is saying here.

It's disappointing that I still see so much sealioning and strawmanning and other forms of nonsense aimed at people who have the gall to be critical of DE's system. It's very difficult to improve anything if you can't first accept that it isn't perfect.

The people saying "hey this isn't perfect" are integral to the long-term health of anything, because everything falls apart over time. If we reflexively insult and dismiss criticism, we're choosing to sink to the bottom of the lake because we think pushing to stay afloat isn't necessary.

There are good, interesting suggestions being presented and it's sad to see them received with such pointed negativity.

LMAO, that link, OMG i'm dying of laughter, i'm well aware by now that using the N-word as an example wasn't the wisest thing to do, since it got many people into the mindset of "he just wants to be able in region chat" and therefore cant have a reasonable conversation with me because they just thing im a racist trying to get away with it, wich is not true at all, but my phrasing could be better.Now i'm not editing the first post, because I believe warframe players and forum posters can do better than just a simplistic reasoning.

Now i'd like to point out that I barely started doing forum posts just yesterday, have never done them before, and as you say, I wouldn't even bother to post if I didn't think DE are amazing developer who have done an amazing job at Warframe, making a great game with an even better monetization system, I applaud all that. The reason I'm here posting, is because first of all, because I know the devs to be amazing, there Is a chance this wont fall on deaf ears.

Thanks for considering my suggestions interesting, I don't have an idea on how good, viable, etc they can be, I just put them there as an idea for DE to have as reference for what I would like to be done. Another alternative would have been pointing out what I don't like and give no suggestions, wich I think is useful to do aswell, but a bit of guidance and suggestions that they may or may not take into consideration never hurt anybody.

Now the strawmanning, god its so irritating, I wandered whether or not to answer to the strawmanning, and I did, but will no longer do, because I think its an insult to the people that ACUTALLY read what I posted and thought about it for more than 2 seconds with a genuine interest in understanding my position, so from now on ill only answer to people that criticize or agree my arguments, not the ones they think i'm trying to say.

[5H4DE]

23 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

Wouldn't it be better if people stopped using insults and bad memes all the time?
OP used the N-word as an example. But why removing just the N-word? If someone used that word, they clearly don't know how to behave. So why wait for a second offense to ban them? Ban them right away.

Almost everyone uses region chat without a problem.
And then there are a few people that get banned. This isn't a problem of the system. The banned people are the problem.

And DE is working on a change of the system, so that you get a PM about the reason for the ban. So people don't have to ask in the forum about it.

For the record, I'm one of those that never got banned/kicked off chat.

Thing is there are words in the no-no-list that on their own are not even close to profanities (the whole Nezha deal for example) and it can result in innocent people getting kicked/banned unfairly. This is why I suggested that.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

16 hours ago, Kaizal said:

Also if you translate this to real life, its like saying people shouldn't know the laws, because its easier to bypass them if you do, this is true, but what happens is not that laws aren't accesible to the public, they just try to make the laws better, wich is what I think DE should be doing. I don't agree with a fear based system that is this sloppy.

It's not a fear based system.  DE has put rules in place (ToS, EULA, CoC).  They emphasize being respectful to all your fellow Tenno.  If you treat others with respect, then you'll be fine.

16 hours ago, Kaizal said:

Ive gotten insulted in this game, and I don't mind it at all, because im mature enough to take it...

Taking insult and maturity are not linked.  I would, however, link maturity to whether one gives out insults or not.

[Kaizal]

5 hours ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

It's not a fear based system.  DE has put rules in place (ToS, EULA, CoC).  They emphasize being respectful to all your fellow Tenno.  If you treat others with respect, then you'll be fine.

If you treat others with respect, then you'll be fine. --> yeah if there weren't for the large amount of cases of people getting suspended cuz the kickbot cant recognize context, ive literally seen people getting suspended for addressing someone as "f4g" when that was literally their in-game name. You might say this is rare, but if you go online and do some research you'll quickly find otherwise.

Do I have to come back to the same every time?

"Being respectful" is not something objective at all. You have to clarify what is respectful for you if you want it to be a rule, have you seen any laws saying "be nice to people", because in my experience they are a lot more objective on what you can and cant say.

Then what happens when your criteria its not objective? Well basically the ones at the top get to decide what is "respectful" or not the way the see fit on a case to case bases, which is unfair by nature, the more objective a regulation is, the less likely you'll unfairly treat someone.

5 hours ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

Taking insult and maturity are not linked.  I would, however, link maturity to whether one gives out insults or not.

If you can't take an insult without lashing out or immediately getting angry, or resentful or bitter, or unable to continue racional conversation, that's pretty immature in my book. You can also simply politely cut discourse with the other side of the conversation, that's also pretty mature if you ask me. Hell how you respond to any kind of violence in general is directly linked with how mature you are. But ill not continue now since this isn't the main topic being discusses.

It's not a fear based system. --> Then why are so many people disabling region chat for getting suspended while given no justification at all(or very vague ones that mean nothing such as "be respectful").

If DE had real public regulations, this people could stand up for themselves when improperly accussed of being hurtful or something like that, the way its all shady now, limits the conversation to:

Random person(maybe unfairly treated, maybe not): DE this was the context of the conversation X, where I said the word Y, clearly because of context X, Y wasn't used in a "disrespectful manner"

DE: We define what is respectful the way we see fit, and we wont tell you what that way is at all, so just stay quiet and accept your punishment

Clear misrepresentation to prove a point, DE would be much more polite, but provide as little information as I characterized.

Being Respectful is not a stupid criteria, but that only applies for interpersonal relationships, when you try to take that into the context ofa regulation it becomes really sloppy.

 

[Kaizal]

11 hours ago, TheRealShade said:

For the record, I'm one of those that never got banned/kicked off chat.

Thing is there are words in the no-no-list that on their own are not even close to profanities (the whole Nezha deal for example) and it can result in innocent people getting kicked/banned unfairly. This is why I suggested that.

Exactly, profanity shouldn't be allowed regardless of context, you provided an example of something that is not profanity by itself, or at least not in my book, the thing that even if proven that the whole Nezha thing is not profanity, there are many words in their list that we don't even know about, the whole point of this is that DE need to bring clarity to their regulations, i'm on the topic of chat now, but this easily extends to other aspects.

Only some of the partner requirements are objective at all, which means DE can simply reject a partner request without giving any objective reason, because that's not how their criteria is built, same with chat, since their criteria is pure BS or "hidden", which also being hidden means it can easily be manipulated on a case to case bases(even if that's not my biggest issue with the system, because from what I see online lots of people are getting badly treated from this mysterious regulations).

ALSO WHY THAT #*!%ING FIXATION WITH MY EXAMPLE, if you want, label me as a racist for all I care I know i'm not one. I already explained why I used it, so I see no point in explaining myself again.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

21 hours ago, Kaizal said:

That is one of the first principles that makes part of any legislative system, basically ignorance of the regulation, doesn't exempt you from getting the punishment, except in those cases you have access to what this laws are, they don't just vagely say, "behave apropiattely.

That is false. You do not always have access to the laws, and that still doesn't excuse you from breaking them. And the rule isn't a vague, hand wavy "behave appropriately". It's "be respectful of your fellow Tenno." I understand that the concept of "respect" is foreign to a lot of people growing up in this day and age, especially with the rise of online venues that allow you to mask your identity. But respect is not as subjective as you make it out to be.

 

21 hours ago, Kaizal said:

Taking context into account would be a nice start.

Not every suspension is doled out by the bot. So context is taken into account in some instances. Yet people still complain. Please try again.

 

21 hours ago, Kaizal said:

Not exactly list of words forbidden, but having a list of words forbidden is basically a regulation, wich DE so far, has no problem making their regulations public, not on the forums at least, if you get your post deleted, you get to know why that happened.

I legitimately have no idea what you're trying to say here. Your initial statement was:

22 hours ago, Kaizal said:

The "putting out a list would make trolls life easier" has never been a problem for DE so far, with is it one now?

which implies that DE has put out a list before. I'm asking you what that list is.

 

21 hours ago, Kaizal said:

What about if they banned your in-game account? you still wouldn't care, sorry but I don't buy it, I don't buy that someone would make an account on the forums, which is a platform that is all about giving constructive criticism, if they didn't thought they didn't at least have a chance to make a difference, and wont care if they get silenced unfairly, I just don't believe it. And if that is the case why are you even bothering to answer to me? Why do you waste your time on something you consider unimportant?

If I did something that warranted an in-game ban, then so be it. I do not own this account, and that is something I agreed to by accepting the ToS and EULA when I signed up to play this game. Whether you buy it or not is immaterial. You asked me a direct question and I provided a direct answer. Why I created this forum profile is also immaterial.  And do not put words in my mouth. I said I do not take online interactions seriously. I made no mention of whether they are important or not.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

19 minutes ago, Kaizal said:

Then what happens when your criteria its not objective? Well basically the ones at the top get to decide what is "respectful" or not the way the see fit on a case to case bases, which is unfair by nature, the more objective a regulation is, the less likely you'll unfairly treat someone.

Correct, DE decides what is and is not respectful.  They tend to use the norms of the society around them, however, so we're in luck - it's not at all unfair.  If we act nicely to each other, we should be fine.  Yes, I saw your example, and yes, it's problematic from the start.  It's way too complicated to parse it all out here and now and would go off topic way too quickly.

19 minutes ago, Kaizal said:

If you can't take an insult without lashing out or immediately getting angry, or resentful or bitter, or unable to continue racional conversation, that's pretty immature in my book.

And, I disagree.  If someone is the target of a slur, it's not immature for them to be angry or resentful about having it thrown at them in an online chat.  The one who is being immature is the one that thinks it is acceptable to use that slur in the first place.  This isn't a difficult thing to grasp as demonstrated by the thousands of people who use chat every day without incident.

[Almagnus1]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Not every suspension is doled out by the bot. So context is taken into account in some instances. Yet people still complain. Please try again.

Issues arise when the moderator is part of the problem, and then troll users into getting themselves banned by the bot.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

2 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Issues arise when the moderator is part of the problem, and then troll users into getting themselves banned by the bot.

Abuse of power is a separate issue. The fact remains, when a human doles out the suspension, context is taken into account.