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[DE]Rebecca

Chat Moderation Changes and Additions Report!

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3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

moderationexample.jpg

Maybe I'm just blind, but I'm not sure I understand this infographic? I'm assuming the top bit (with the grey bars of different lengths) is a histogram showing the most common reasons for banning, but "I LOVE LITTLE GIRLS", "No i beat my wife", "There is only one gender, male, females are property", etc. are oddly specific sentences to display here.
I mean, are these exact phrases that players have been copy+pasting or something? Is each one simply "paraphrasing" for a variety of similar phrases that people have been (rightfully) chatbanned for saying? Am I completely off the mark?

I feel like I'm missing something obvious, but could we have a bit more explanation on what the infographic means?

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Satirical names are overlooked, satirical posts are punished with bans.

No sane human will like little girls, beat their wife or say there is only 1 gender in a seriuos way.

Edited by ShurikGesu
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1 minute ago, ShurikGesu said:

Satirical names are overlooked, satirical posts are punished with bans.

No sane human will like little girls, beat their wife or say there is only 1 gender in a seriuos way.

No sane human would post that crap in the first place.

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Region is an absolute embarrassment to warframe, everytime I bring new players to the game usually they see region chat, I wish it were up to me to decide, I would remove it from the game, new players can't get any help because most of the time you can't see there messages because of the spamming of obscenities. Region serves no purpose 

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10 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

Maybe I'm just blind, but I'm not sure I understand this infographic? I'm assuming the top bit (with the grey bars of different lengths) is a histogram showing the most common reasons for banning, but "I LOVE LITTLE GIRLS", "No i beat my wife", "There is only one gender, male, females are property", etc. are oddly specific sentences in this regard.
I mean, are these exact phrases that players have been saying or something, or is each one simply "paraphrasing" for a variety of phrases that people have been chatbanned for saying?

I feel like I'm missing something obvious, but could we have a bit more explanation on what the infographic means?

With the title of "Problematic Users" I think it's censored user names, not an infographic. 

But, those comments make me so glad we have an autotrigger with KickBot, with the text removed.

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11 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

Maybe I'm just blind, but I'm not sure I understand this infographic? I'm assuming the top bit (with the grey bars of different lengths) is a histogram showing the most common reasons for banning, but "I LOVE LITTLE GIRLS", "No i beat my wife", "There is only one gender, male, females are property", etc. are oddly specific sentences in this regard.
I mean, are these exact phrases that players have been saying or something, or is each one simply "paraphrasing" for a variety of phrases that people have been chatbanned for saying?

I feel like I'm missing something obvious, but could we have a bit more explanation on what the infographic means?

The greyed out bars are the names of the individuals, based on context anyway.

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3 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

With the title of "Problematic Users" I think it's censored user names, not an infographic. 

But, those comments make me so glad we have an autotrigger with KickBot, with the text removed.

3 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

The greyed out bars are the names of the individuals, based on context anyway.

I considered that as well, but I mean, surely there's a better way of displaying the work done than a list of nine players and the phrases that got them repeat-banned? I'm a bit lost on what DE's trying to convey there.

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1 minute ago, SortaRandom said:

I considered that as well, but I mean, surely there's a better way of displaying the work done than a list of nine players and the phrases that got them repeat-banned? I'm a bit lost on what DE's trying to convey there.

I assume it's just meant to provide an example/snapshot of how these changes have been implemented and the end result.

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Sadly in all forms of chat theres always a minority of people who don't like or care a bout others in regards too common courtesy.and being conscientious, of their actions. In hope the new filtering will root out those of that intend to have no regard for others. Thank DE for trying at least,  and actualy being active and constructive with clients views within the community.  After all there are many developers and big game copanies that dont care and only want financial profit, whilst blatently ignoring their own code of conduct policies.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

I considered that as well, but I mean, surely there's a better way of displaying the work done than a list of nine players and the phrases that got them repeat-banned? I'm a bit lost on what DE's trying to convey there.

Severity of messages removed?

Looking it over again, I think it's just a snapshot of a progress report from the paid CM's. 

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44 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Making it more wordy is hardly "adding more". Unless your basis for quality is word count.

My basis for quality is on the objective of the post. Posting the same opinion where appropriate is how you are heard in this playerbase.

Likewise, going against the rules of the Forums will always be adding less to a discussion than a constructive request. If you consider a meta complaint more productive than a piece of criticism on the subject at hand, *shrug*.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)FLamin_UniKorn said:

Out of curiosity as an alliance owner there are times we have disruptive players that are at Warlord rank in there clan and unable to kick them from the chat. In addition to all the good things you have done to clean up region any way we can have the alliance owner able to kick warlords from alliance tab?

 

As a alliance leader I could not agree w this more. The Founding clan of a alliance should have the right to kick any  player out of alliance chat if need be. I cannot tell you how many toxic people at warlord status unexpectedly cause havoc in tab and cannot be kicked. This is something the founding clan warlords should be able to do. Please address. Thank you @[DE]Rebecca

Edited by (PS4)Steelergurl33

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6 minutes ago, Voltage said:

My basis for quality is on the objective of the post. Posting the same opinion where appropriate is how you are heard in this playerbase.

Likewise, going against the rules of the Forums will always be adding less to a discussion than a constructive request. If you consider a meta complaint more productive than a piece of criticism on the subject at hand, *shrug*.

Based on this criteria, the quality of the post in question is of the highest calibre as it accurately describes the nature of the more vocal forumites on this topic, in particular, while holding to Polonius' "rule" that "brevity is the soul of wit."

In other words, it is a very apt commentary on the nature of the "discussions" around chat moderation. 

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2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

On December 5th:
snip
We improved our logging of Moderation Actions.

would you please elaborate?

and please don't tell me you didn't have any logging before

please don't tell me that moderators didn't have to prove their actions were justified by providing screenshots (or similar)

 

back when I was a mod for a terrible free to play cashgrab I had to take a screenshot of the offence the user commited, I had to take a screenshot of the actual ban command I typed and I had to log it in our database so the others could easily find it.

If you didn't add the entry to the database, you were in hot water

If you didn't take the required screenshots you were in hot water

you didn't want to be in hot water because the community manager, when angry, was terrifiying and I witnessed adult men starting to cry when he shouted at them over teamspeak

Edited by Helch0rn
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Hey,

 

First of all thanks a lot for the work DE and the moderation team are putting into this.

I have one question, would it be possible to increase the number of moderators ?
I'm from EU english and don't get me wrong, I think the active moderators we have are doing a fantastic job, however there is so few of them which leads to those moderators to be in region for extended period of time. 

Chat is noticeably different depending on whether or not moderators are present and we need them but I don't feel we can ask more of the volunteers already present.

So yeah, more moderators in EU, please ?! 🙂

 

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Would be nice to see some areas actually addressed to shed some light on what is going on.

Such as points from my post here:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1045373-chat-moderation-changes-and-additions/?page=5&tab=comments#comment-10446180

 

There are still numerous holes of information missing that really need some filling in.

 

Edited by Sean
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I still think that Kickbot handing bans on the first offence is silly and worse that none of that is being mentioned.


Sometimes an edgy self-deprecating joke isn't really worth more than a slap in the wrist, meanwhile the bot gives 7 days, yes, I used a certain F word towards myself (which isn't even used with the same offensive meaning that made it a banned word), a word that can be used in a context that isn't offensive at all and that offended no one besides... not even myself. If Kickbot gave me a warning I wouldn't have done it again and it would die there, instead it only made me think the decision to do so was rather hypocritical, kinda like parents not wanting their kids watching Fortnite streams where people swear but it's okay for their kids to watch videos and play a game where the main goal is to kill others and be the last one alive.


Was it effective at the end though? I doubt it, it's not like I will stop using the word towards myself, it's a bit of a meme to describe that someone is the bad kind of fan towards something which I accept that I do so, in context only snowflakes would be offended because everything offends that kind of people, and the one time I did it I happened to trigger finger it and remember about the ban a second too late.

 

I just think that the way kickbot works right now is a bit like Genital Jousting, rather than "oh, I see, cool, thanks, I will try to not do it again". The only reason I speak of my case was because it's an actual example that I have, now if I had used the word towards someone else in it's original offensive meaning (not the one it had before it was offensive, which I still use in such way because it's just easier to spell that) then I'd agree with the chat ban.

So I wonder if we can quote certain phrases from the song "Hollywood" by System of a Down in chat, or do we get the ban hammer for doing to (emphasis on certain, *winkwink*).

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Reading through some of these comments, I can see that the underlying issues still aren't being addressed properly with these moderation changes. Talk is cheap, and preferential treatment can still be given to those that are in the "Inner Circle", in spite of all the declarations of the opposite.

Issues can arise from any normally harmless words or phrases nowadays, and I definitely don't play Warframe to hear these kinds of stories again and again. DE, you're allowed to do what you want to with your own chat, but as evidenced from the "snapshot" of problem statements and sentences, it is more than enough of a sign for me to stay away from in game chat whenever possible and stick with my own set of like-minded friends / relatives that don't get into political debates for no reason other than to push their agendas. (Or create problems where there are none).

At the end of the day, we're here to play/enjoy a game. Not throw shade back and forth for words that only have the power you give them. Politicization doesn't serve any purpose other than to divide us into separate fringe groups that go at each other like rabid wolves whenever a piece of meat is thrown between them.

I wish it wasn't this way. I heavily dislike this sort of thing, especially in a video game.
That said, as long as you continue to try and improve how things are operating/managed/accounted, I'm okay with that.
But for now I'm just going to keep Region disabled.

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I mean.. its the internet. And we live in a time where "being offended", literally at all, is considered by many to be a sign of mental weakness or whatever. 

In short i blame things like southpark, family guy, rick and morty, american dad.. etc. Where stupidity and a lack of respect are casually disguised as humor. 

Sometimes i dread going to public places cuz i think that a percentage of the people i may have to tolerate (i.e. over hear their conversations a table or two over in a cafe) are going to be people who would say things like in the snapshot. And while yes, sometimes indecent things can be funny in certain context.. not all of what people say or do that is indecent is intended to be humorous. 

 

I like that kickbot is strict and that chat mods actually sometimes make an effort, because it at the very leasts keeps some base level of dignity to the game. 

 

I wonder.  How many players have simply turned off region chat in options. It would be a good stat to know. 

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Well. I have an ignore list longer than [DE]Rebbeca's friends list, with people that bothered me, without having to demand no action from Digital Extremes. 
Most of those "banable offenses" are just jokes, clearly visible by the absurdidty of the statement. 
If you hate humor, just add those people to the ignore list and live your grey and boring life, but DE don't try to enforce to players something you allow inside your own company.
People should be responsible for their own accounts to be as boring as them, instead of demanding a company to shove it down normal people's throats.

Edited by OptimusJ
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22 hours ago, PookieNumnums said:

I mean.. its the internet. And we live in a time where "being offended", literally at all, is considered by many to be a sign of mental weakness or whatever. 

 

There's a lot of areas where people tend to "get offended" at the most minor thing that was not even initially being remotely thought of in that way. Take a recent event like with what's going on with Nike, that is literally people grasping at straws in order to get offended. I don't care about Nike or even use their products, but this "event" is beyond crazy, and unfortunately more behavior like that is also becoming the norm it seems. Two sides are basically at war, one that pushes what should be acceptable ("X definitely did nothing wrong"), the other one deeming most things as offensive ("How dare you say Y phrase that only applies due to one event in my life"). Everyone else in the middle is basically damned.

 

Quote

In short i blame things like southpark, family guy, rick and morty, american dad.. etc. Where stupidity and a lack of respect are casually disguised as humor. 

Sometimes i dread going to public places cuz i think that a percentage of the people i may have to tolerate (i.e. over hear their conversations a table or two over in a cafe) are going to be people who would say things like in the snapshot. And while yes, sometimes indecent things can be funny in certain context.. not all of what people say or do that is indecent is intended to be humorous. 
 

Humor is subjective and is often added with the weight of the individual's past experiences; same can be said of how people can take offense at certain things. Sometimes the right phrase can trigger a memory that can lead to either something positive or negative. Either way, it is good to try and think of how it applies to the greater whole and if your perception is the minority (again, EITHER positive or negative).

Though additionally, people often mimic behavior that they are told (either by actions or words) to be good, as a lot of words and actions that people can get banned over are things that DE have done themselves on various streams and in RedText itself. One oft-cited thing I see in the forums is "Why are you bringing sexuality into Warframe at all?" and what they tend to forget is that DE does that all the time on their streams, moreso within RedText. While I personally don't care either way on how people choose to look at pixels, there does have to be a proper balance and not a "Do as we say, not as we do" approach.

 

Quote

 

I like that kickbot is strict and that chat mods actually sometimes make an effort, because it at the very leasts keeps some base level of dignity to the game.

 

There's far more than just "moderators who make an effort", there's some pretty solid evidence that shows the "Moderator Code of Conduct" to basically be a checklist of all the bad behavior that SOME moderators have done (really want to stress that "some").

 

Quote

I wonder.  How many players have simply turned off region chat in options. It would be a good stat to know. 

I would definitely count myself in that group, I choose to not take part in the cesspool that is "Region Chat", and that is from the behavior I've seen from both Moderators and players. Unfortunately a lot of what is going on bleeds into other chats, such as any and all relays.

Edited by Sean
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The rules regarding chat are still way too vague and the system still allows false positives to happen. People can still get banned for saying innocent words that happen to trigger the chat bot. Until you publish clear chat rules for players, the issues won't go away.

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