Chat Moderation Changes and Additions Report!

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

6 hours ago, (XB1)iDEATH said:

By censoring and making the use of certain words bannable you only give them more power. People will use them just to shock, so if you don't give them the reaction they are looking for, the reason for using the word disappears. You want the "n-word" and the "t-word" to lose their power? Stop freaking out when you hear them. It's that simple, except, of course, that we have to get everyone on board with that.

And, while we're doing that, the people who are actually affected by these words in a negative way can just go and deal with it?  How magnanimous of you.

37 minutes ago, Shadow-Spawn said:

The size of your playerbase will dwindle to Zero when they are getting censored constantly.

Or, maybe it will grow when people who are marginalized and stay away from chat due to people spamming slurs and other objectionable content learn to act with respect towards others?  I love all the attention that is place upon people who wish to act badly in chat and how we don't want to chase them away, while no one seem to want to think about people who avoid chat because of the boorish behavior of these bad actors.

[veloSylraptor]

Some people seem to have a distorted view of free speech here, so lets clear it up.

You have no right to freedom of speech in a private venue. Your ability of speech in DE's property (forums, chat, etc) is a privilege granted by DE and can be revoked at any time should it be in their best interest to do so, say for example, if you're making their other customers uncomfortable.

Go ahead, try walking into a restaurant, or a bar, or a club and start yelling obscenities at random people and antagonize everyone. You'll be escorted out of the premises at best, or have the cops called on you at worst.

DE is simply doing what any other establishment would do to maintain an acceptable standard of behavior to maintain a good atmosphere around the game so as to not drive away entire groups of their existing and potential customer base. 

[Hedasker]

Il y a 14 heures, [DE]Rebecca a dit :

We'll see if your "professional Mod team" will delete this as usual.

My question is serious, however.

You are stating (again) that "problematic users" and "repeat offenders" only concern anti-feminism, racism, homophobia and transphobia. Why do you never talk about anti-male sexism ? Is it so tabou in North America ? Why are you deleting every post about that ?

Maybe I can't understand because I've never faced such a situation in game... Being insulted in a foreign language seems the only real threat in Warframe Europe 😅

[spaceageGecko]

9 minutes ago, Hedasker said:

We'll see if your "professional Mod team" will delete this as usual.

My question is serious, however.

You are stating (again) that "problematic users" and "repeat offenders" only concern anti-feminism, racism, homophobia and transphobia. Why do you never talk about anti-male sexism ? Is it so tabou in North America ? Why are you deleting every post about that ?

Maybe I can't understand because I've never faced such a situation in game... Being insulted in a foreign language seems the only real threat in Warframe Europe 😅

Posts being deleted are because people keep trying to bring arguments that inflame the situation or are spamming. As for the bulk of your comment, at no point have they said that that those are the ONLY concerns just the main ones, they are deleting posts about "anti-male" sexism because generally it's rare and is just an attempt to change the subject.

[SilentMobius]

14 hours ago, Ely.I said:

Why is "nezha is a trap" banned again? seems inoffensive, are there bots constantly spamming it or something? Nezha being an effeminate boy seems fitting too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxeB2AXIG3E

[SilentMobius]

14 hours ago, Sean said:

Actually the term is used both positively and negatively (much like a lot of words).

The majority of its usage is actually seen more positively, the first instance I've even seen it considered negative was from DE turning it bannable.

You are mistaken, the term is objectively negative, if a specific individual chooses to subjectively accept it (Like Australians using the C-work in a friendly capacity) that's up to them, doesn't make the term any less a-priori offensive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxeB2AXIG3E

 

[Sean]

20 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

You are mistaken, the term is objectively negative, if a specific individual chooses to subjectively accept it (Like Australians using the C-work in a friendly capacity) that's up to them, doesn't make the term any less a-priori offensive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxeB2AXIG3E

 

 

*sigh*

Just because your bubble has it as "offensive" doesn't mean everyone uses it in that form.

 

Step out of your echo chamber and start looking at how it is a term that requires context and nuance to be handled properly. Blanket banning that word is not the way to go.

[PurrrningBoop]

1 час назад, (XB1)iDEATH сказал:

-Snip-

The idea you are describing is applicable for an individual, who is dealing with ignorance, but is almost useless for a society, especially when it is multicultural. Reading up on Social Adaptaton will work wonders. Another issue with Marcus Aurelius is that he died a little while back... some things may have changed.

Apologies for off topic!

[LascarCapable]

Il y a 1 heure, Hedasker a dit :

We'll see if your "professional Mod team" will delete this as usual.

My question is serious, however.

You are stating (again) that "problematic users" and "repeat offenders" only concern anti-feminism, racism, homophobia and transphobia. Why do you never talk about anti-male sexism ? Is it so tabou in North America ? Why are you deleting every post about that ?

Maybe I can't understand because I've never faced such a situation in game... Being insulted in a foreign language seems the only real threat in Warframe Europe 😅

Just to be clear : the forums does not accept any kind of behaviours aiming to segregate, harass and/or promote hatred towards a person or a group of persons. That rule apply to all individuals no matter the gender, the religion, the sexual identity or the sexual preferences. I personally take those kind of issues very seriously, and you can safely assume other moderators do so as well.

If one day somebody pops up with misandrist posts, they would be harshly sanctionned like how we would do with every single posts of that kind.

[Springlake]

34 minutes ago, (XB1)iDEATH said:

You really missed the point of my first sentence, huh? Words are just noises. None of them has any inherent power to harm, signifigance, or even meaning outside of what we attribute them. A word such as the "n-word" is a blade that you sharpen within your own mind; even when someone else wields that word like a weapon it's only because you allow it that it harms you. Of course, the problem is that is something that every individual has to come to realize for themselves, and until this happens en masse these words are going to continue to cut like a Vorpal sword (snicker snack!).

I'm really into Marcus Aurelius right now, and he was much smarter and more concise than me:

"Choose not to be harmed -- and you won't feel harmed. Don't feel harmed -- and you haven't been."

Giving other people such power over you is your choice and yours alone. Which brings me to the other part of my post you ignored, my question re players being able to create their own filters? If you can type in all the words that make you want to clutch your pearls and thus create your own little chat safe space, then why do I have to put up with heavy handed moderators too? It seems to me that if I'm right and DE has provided us with those tools and we can all filter out stuff we don't like to our own taste, then isn't that all we really need?

Perhaps you would be interested in this choice quote from Marcus Aurelius as well?

"Kindness is an irresistible force, so long as it’s genuine and without any fake smiles or two-facedness. Even the most stubborn bad attitude is nothing, if you just keep being nice to the person concerned. Politely comment on his behaviour when you get the chance and, just when he’s about to have another go at you, gently make him self-conscious by saying “No, my son; we’re not meant for this. I’ll not be hurt; you’re just hurting yourself.” Subtly draw his attention to this general fact; even bees and other animals that live in groups don’t act like he does. Do it without any hint of sarcasm or nit-picking, though; do it with real affection and with your heart free from resentment. Don’t talk to him harshly like a school teacher or try to impress bystanders but, even though other people may be around, talk as if you’re alone together in private."

Even if you don't agree you can still treat people nicely.

[Almagnus1]

2 hours ago, D20 said:

Those post were very likely removed because they were all about that new drama that just popped up. Very likely those posts got removed to avoid any sort of witch hunting, which is something some users are very fond of. There's also a few posts that seemed spammish or off-topic.

Keep in mind that it's your own chat moderators that taught the trolls how to effectively bait people into a chatbot ban.

[LascarCapable]

à l’instant, Almagnus1 a dit :

Keep in mind that it's your own chat moderators that taught the trolls how to effectively bait people into a chatbot ban.

If you find people trying to bait other users, please report them asap.

[Almagnus1]

1 minute ago, D20 said:

If you find people trying to bait other users, please report them asap.

And if it's a moderator that's doing the baiting?

That's what started this entire debacle.

[Springlake]

Just now, Almagnus1 said:

And if it's a moderator that's doing the baiting?

Then report them as well?

[LascarCapable]

il y a 1 minute, Almagnus1 a dit :

And if it's a moderator that's doing the baiting?

That's what started this entire debacle.

Rules apply to moderators as well.

[Sean]

1 minute ago, D20 said:

Rules apply to moderators as well.

 

Suppose at that point it's down to a lack of trust in the overall reporting system based on past history; after all, the entire moderator CoC just looks like a checklist for some of the nonsense that has happened by the chat moderators that a large amount of people have issue with. While those ones are still a minority when comparing to the overall amount of moderators, the phrase "one bad apple spoils the bunch" applies.

Only time and actual actions to hold those accountable will help in restoring that trust.

[Almagnus1]

3 minutes ago, D20 said:

Rules apply to moderators as well.

From what the community has observed, that's not been the case.

The other thing that's coming into play is that DE's Canadian sensibilities are incredibly thinned skin from an American point of view, so there's a fair amount of players that are looking at this going "the mods are being pointlessly hypersensitive".

[LascarCapable]

il y a 8 minutes, Sean a dit :

 

Suppose at that point it's down to a lack of trust in the overall reporting system based on past history; after all, the entire moderator CoC just looks like a checklist for some of the nonsense that has happened by the chat moderators that a large amount of people have issue with. While those ones are still a minority when comparing to the overall amount of moderators, the phrase "one bad apple spoils the bunch" applies.

Only time and actual actions to hold those accountable will help in restoring that trust.

Fingers crossed everything will be over in a few month, and people will start have a bit more faith in the moderation team.

[Almagnus1]

6 minutes ago, D20 said:

Fingers crossed everything will be over in a few month, and people will start have a bit more faith in the moderation team.

One thing that would help you immensely in this regard is auditing the chatbot rules, and making it more informative when chatbot bans someone so they can learn what's acceptable.  I have a feeling some of those rules are written with a hypersensitive world view in mind, which is part of the problem the community is facing because chatbot is being overly aggressive when it shouldn't be.

Also, we really need an in-game way to dispute chatbot bans (preferably something that isn't handled by the in-game chat moderators to prevent warping of chatbot), as chatbot is a huge part of this issue.

[MagPrime]

1 hour ago, Springlake said:

Perhaps you would be interested in this choice quote from Marcus Aurelius as well?

"Kindness is an irresistible force, so long as it’s genuine and without any fake smiles or two-facedness. Even the most stubborn bad attitude is nothing, if you just keep being nice to the person concerned. Politely comment on his behaviour when you get the chance and, just when he’s about to have another go at you, gently make him self-conscious by saying “No, my son; we’re not meant for this. I’ll not be hurt; you’re just hurting yourself.” Subtly draw his attention to this general fact; even bees and other animals that live in groups don’t act like he does. Do it without any hint of sarcasm or nit-picking, though; do it with real affection and with your heart free from resentment. Don’t talk to him harshly like a school teacher or try to impress bystanders but, even though other people may be around, talk as if you’re alone together in private."

Even if you don't agree you can still treat people nicely.

Can we keep you?

I vote we keep you.

It's settled, we're keeping you. 

[BebopPrime]

remove region chat. improve reporting options. problem solved.

[MagPrime]

53 minutes ago, D20 said:

Fingers crossed everything will be over in a few month, and people will start have a bit more faith in the moderation team.

It would help if the moderation team were bigger, making them able to respond faster as well a being more visible to players.  

Not having to wait a day or more for a response to a PM would help as well, a lot of people I know say they've messaged a mod regarding something and then simply don't hear back, leading them to be less likely to try that avenue again.

[Me.KayOh]

8 hours ago, Phyrak said:

I guess I come from the mindset of trying to bring out the best in people and let discussion be both key and cornerstone to growth.

Such is why I write a lot of concepts, reworks and tweaks for frames. Not to mention seeing what augments the community want to see for their favoured frames - not only on this community but also on the subreddit.

Communication is vital, whatever the topic - be it an issue, a hope or something to be added to game in the future by the devs.

I can certainly agree with the manner of exhaustion from the game with this playing at the back of my mind. Such is what saddens me.

Warframe is known for its caring community and how we help one another; be it grinding, giving away mods or even sending a little gift here and there. That's the best example of paramount, honest communication.

Bringing action to allow that culture to cultivate is the other issue, for that is how this issue will be stopped once and for all. A communal goal of positive culture just as how we did the mustache and cancer treatment for the community over the past few years - that culture is key.

See what I mean? Post deleted. And it was talking about the video, which talks directly about, you know, the topic at hand, chat moderation. I laughed.

6 hours ago, D20 said:

Those post were very likely removed because they were all about that new drama that just popped up. Very likely those posts got removed to avoid any sort of witch hunting, which is something some users are very fond of. There's also a few posts that seemed spammish or off-topic.

There are multiple threads throughout the entire forums that are solely spam. Why not spend more time moderating those? Why is it that this thread is constantly pruned, even when people have fair objective views or are simply discussing the merits of seriously looking at the points raised in said video a few days ago? 

Tell me, what witch-hunting was going to occur as a result of this post that got deleted ?

Is it not fair criticism stated in a calm manner? Was I not being nice enough when stating my own opinions? I was having a simple discussion with another user and you deleted his posts as well. What rules do those posts break other than unwritten ones?

[Me.KayOh]

3 hours ago, D20 said:

If one day somebody pops up with misandrist posts, they would be harshly sanctionned like how we would do with every single posts of that kind.

So you're telling me "satire" cannot be used as an excuse for "misandrist posts" but it can be used as an excuse for a "misandrist" username. 

Ok. I'll save this one too.

[spaceageGecko]

5 minutes ago, Me.Church said:

See what I mean? Post deleted. And it was talking about the video, which talks directly about, you know, the topic at hand, chat moderation. I laughed.

There are multiple threads throughout the entire forums that are solely spam. Why not spend more time moderating those? Why is it that this thread is constantly pruned, even when people have fair objective views or are simply discussing the merits of seriously looking at the points raised in said video a few days ago? 

Tell me, what witch-hunting was going to occur as a result of this post that got deleted ?

Is it not fair criticism stated in a calm manner? Was I not being nice enough when stating my own opinions? I was having a simple discussion with another user and you deleted his posts as well. What rules do those posts break other than unwritten ones?

I'd imagine this thread is being watched more is because this is a ongoing drama. The video was abrasive and talking about it gives others an opening to inflame the situation, though it would seem you are beating them to it.