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[DE]Rebecca

Chat Moderation Changes and Additions Report!

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2 hours ago, Sean said:

You guys do realize that "Nezha is a trap" would have died ages ago if you hadn't turned it into an issue, right?

I think this sums up the entire problem, as it's now more fun for the trolls to imply the meme and watch people go REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE when (honestly) DE should have thought about the initial Nezha design and made Nezha look like they used a different body model than Nova's (and also make Nezha not look like Sailor Moon).

And all of this causes issues when you talk about finding poop and which warframes are useful for trapping animals.

The entire Nezha debacle is a completely self inflicted wound for DE.

41 minutes ago, rune_me said:

I think you are failing to understood what chat moderation is. It's not about what you find offensive. It's also not about what the majority finds offensive. It's about what the people who runs the chat and makes the rules finds offensive. They are the ones who program the kickbot, so they decide what words will trigger it.

While that is true, problems arise when you get someone from a very vocal minority into the moderator program and throws common sense to the wind and takes offense at what the majority find non-offensive, and then proceeds to alter kick-bot and ban people based on a skewed perception of reality.

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@[DE]Rebecca

I never understand why racism / gender phobia / sexual preference and all that falls within those come outta any game....  shouldn't we all be playing the game and having fun with it?  I appreciate you & team for doing your part to end the horrible trolly words other players maybe called or slurred at.

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22 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

You've asked and answered your own questions, so there is no point in me providing you with any.

Creating a chat exclusively catered to players asking players for help is not a bad thing at all. It's better than what currently exists.

If DE are trying to make a better in-game social space then why would they ever force people to use secondary or third party applications. That would go against what they are trying to accomplish with an immediate social space like region chat. It wouldn't matter how temporary, it would move players off the platform.

What currently exists is an open space with a rule of being respectful. A players helping players chat would limit people to only questions and answers. With the current chat system it would look like a jumbled mess of random questions and answers. DE can try to fix that with time gates on each question but it would slow chat, reduce answers, and result in less helping overall. So they make it like trade chat, post a question and hope someone messages you. Which is basically region chat without the social aspect. If this chat was to replace region chat it would only serve to increase bans. People would continue act the same while other players get more frustrated due to the lack of a space to freely talk.

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Since this has gotten a bit off-track....

@[DE]Rebecca & @[DE]Bear
Do either of you have anything to actually add to any of the discussions within this topic?

 

Going to cite my first post to Rebecca from here...

What is it do any of you hope to gain from just sitting in the background not actually responding to any of the feedback throughout this topic?

Do you really think that kind of attitude and behavior doesn't just look really poor and is completely counter to trying to restore trust?

 

I'll restate something I said earlier on in this topic... why have this topic open at all if zero employees actually will bother to respond to any feedback? This is a "discussion" topic after all, but zero employees have even bothered at all to discuss anything.

If the plan is to only come in here once a week to drop a snippet of some arbitrary report, then that plan needs to be seriously re-evaluated as it does very little in trying to improve anything.

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25 minutes ago, Sean said:

If the plan is to only come in here once a week to drop a snippet of some arbitrary report, then that plan needs to be seriously re-evaluated as it does very little in trying to improve anything.

The plan was to show that fixes were in the works. That changes were made/coming. These reports were to show that yes they do look at every action that at a moderator makes so you guys can see that they do look at everything. Some things may not be as fast as you want them to be fixed but that doesn't mean they're not getting done.

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4 minutes ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

The plan was to show that fixes were in the works. That changes were made/coming. These reports were to show that yes they do look at every action that at a moderator makes so you guys can see that they do look at everything. Some things may not be as fast as you want them to be fixed but that doesn't mean they're not getting done.

 

They have done very little for months.

This is not the first topic on the matter and they followed the same behavior:

  1. Make an initial post.
  2. Not bother responding to any feedback or critique.

 

This is less about instant action and more on actually being transparent, so far they have instead given distractions. They have only avoided, at least publicly, discussing people's comments and questions.

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2 minutes ago, Sean said:

This is less about instant action and more on actually being transparent, so far they have instead given distractions. They have only avoided, at least publicly, discussing people's comments and questions.

You know, they don't technically have to tell you amything at all. They've been very transparent with what they are doing, but that doesn't mean they have to tell everyone everything they do.

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Just now, (XB1)Shodian said:

You know, they don't technically have to tell you amything at all. They've been very transparent with what they are doing, but that doesn't mean they have to tell everyone everything they do.

 

In what way have they been transparent?

They give arbitrary reports that lack context and completely side-step the issues that people actually have with what has been going on.

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5 minutes ago, Sean said:

In what way have they been transparent?

They give arbitrary reports that lack context and completely side-step the issues that people actually have with what has been going on.

Well first off they made this thread. And maybe they're not ready to talk about the other "issues" yet.

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1 minute ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

Well first off they made this thread. And maybe they're not ready to talk about the other "issues" yet.

 

Then they should state that.

Any answer is better than saying nothing at all.

 

The past few months-worth of their behavior looks more like they are trying to ignore issues and instead just pat themselves on the back for a job "well done". If feedback is at the very least acknowledged to being a question that is awaiting an answer, then stating "We will be able to address that concern soon" would go a long way.

 

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All this mess is not worth DE's time or money and they should just do away with region chat altogether. People who want to be social can join a clan in the recruit channel, or sell stuff in trade channel.

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1 minute ago, BebopPrime said:

All this mess is not worth DE's time or money and they should just do away with region chat altogether. People who want to be social can join a clan in the recruit channel, or sell stuff in trade channel.

The longer this goes on, the more I agree with the idea to boot Region.  

It would serve as a more useful space to be converted into a Players Helping Players channel and have the socializing and non game related topics sent to clan, alliance, whisper, or 3rd party chat program. 

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Words only have the power we allow them.

By censoring and making the use of certain words bannable you only give them more power. People will use them just to shock, so if you don't give them the reaction they are looking for, the reason for using the word disappears. You want the "n-word" and the "t-word" to lose their power? Stop freaking out when you hear them. It's that simple, except, of course, that we have to get everyone on board with that.

I will say that this is a larger philisophical issue than just DE's chat moderation, one for the entire western world, but didn't DE put a method into Warframe to set our own filters? Isn't it now possible for each user to set their own preferences in words/sentences they are looking for, if the want to trade, say, as well as avoid if they don't want to see a certain word or phrase? If I didn't imagine that, then why aren't we leveraging on that system? Just teach players how to create their own list of banned words! I don't want or need DE (or any other company...profanity filters are one of the first things I turn off in a game) to decide for me what words I can and cannot see. This probably hasn't been an issue for me because I just turned World chat off and I don't spend much time in Trade, but I don't like the idea at all that this could create a ripple that does effect me.

I'm Canadian, and in Ontario, so I get enough of that from our provincial and federal governments. I don't like the idea of accidentally bumping into some oversensitive chat moderator banning me just because I think Bill C-16 was a pointless waste of taxpayer money to pass (the relevent legislation already protected everyone. EVERYONE; I read it).

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4 hours ago, Postal_pat said:

If DE are trying to make a better in-game social space then why would they ever force people to use secondary or third party applications. That would go against what they are trying to accomplish with an immediate social space like region chat. It wouldn't matter how temporary, it would move players off the platform.

You are either unwilling or unable to comprehend what I'm suggesting. As such, this "conversation" has run its course.

 

4 hours ago, Postal_pat said:

What currently exists is an open space with a rule of being respectful. A players helping players chat would limit people to only questions and answers. With the current chat system it would look like a jumbled mess of random questions and answers. DE can try to fix that with time gates on each question but it would slow chat, reduce answers, and result in less helping overall. So they make it like trade chat, post a question and hope someone messages you. Which is basically region chat without the social aspect. If this chat was to replace region chat it would only serve to increase bans. People would continue act the same while other players get more frustrated due to the lack of a space to freely talk.

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I guess I come from the mindset of trying to bring out the best in people and let discussion be both key and cornerstone to growth.

Such is why I write a lot of concepts, reworks and tweaks for frames. Not to mention seeing what augments the community want to see for their favoured frames - not only on this community but also on the subreddit.

Communication is vital, whatever the topic - be it an issue, a hope or something to be added to game in the future by the devs.

I can certainly agree with the manner of exhaustion from the game with this playing at the back of my mind. Such is what saddens me.

Warframe is known for its caring community and how we help one another; be it grinding, giving away mods or even sending a little gift here and there. That's the best example of paramount, honest communication.

Bringing action to allow that culture to cultivate is the other issue, for that is how this issue will be stopped once and for all. A communal goal of positive culture just as how we did the mustache and cancer treatment for the community over the past few years - that culture is key.

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Your professional Mod team is anti freedom of speech.

Let your gaming community enjoy their freedom of speech when they post on the forums or chat in-game.

It's supposed to be a social multiplayer game that makes its players wanting to come back and engage with other players on a continuous basis.

The size of your playerbase will dwindle to Zero when they are getting censored constantly.

Don't waste all the goodwill that you have build up because of this.

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il y a 21 minutes, Shadow-Spawn a dit :

Your professional Mod team is anti freedom of speech.

Let your gaming community enjoy their freedom of speech when they post on the forums or chat in-game.

It's supposed to be a social multiplayer game that makes its players wanting to come back and engage with other players on a continuous basis.

The size of your playerbase will dwindle to Zero when they are getting censored constantly.

Don't waste all the goodwill that you have build up because of this.

Never forget this : freedom of speech isn't freedom of consequences.

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So far DE feedback on the issue has been very sparse, while this is probably considered an internal problem, "airing the laundry", so to speak, would help a lot in trying to rebuild lost trust with the playerbase...

Considering the perceived damage to the relationship with the community it would be apreciated if the actual disciplinary measures levied against the guilty party were actually made public - in other firms people lost their place for much less and much more publicly

Also, is my impression or someone is actively sanitizing the thread of any relevant criticism? from the timestamps i've just noticed approximately an hour of posts completely removed?!

Weren't we talcking about more transparency and disclosure?

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17 minutes ago, Shadow-Spawn said:

Let your gaming community enjoy their freedom of speech when they post on the forums or chat in-game.

If you think calling people slurs is freedom of speech then you need to look up what it actually means. 

Freedom of speech means you can't be silenced by your government for speaking out against it. DE is not a government, so they have the right to block your chat access if they feel you have crossed a line. This line is what DE sets. It's their house, their rules. They are working on improving the chat bot because yes it has issues but they aren't going to let up when it comes to slurs or anything else in chat.

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il y a 1 minute, Ikusias a dit :

So far DE feedback on the issue has been very sparse, while this is probably considered an internal problem, "airing the laundry", so to speak, would help a lot in trying to rebuild lost trust with the playerbase...

Considering the perceived damage to the relationship with the community it would be apreciated if the actual disciplinary measures levied against the guilty party were actually made public - in other firms people lost their place for much less and much more publicly

Also, is my impression or someone is actively sanitizing the thread of any relevant criticism? from the timestamps i've just noticed approximately an hour of posts completely removed?!

Weren't we talcking about more transparency and disclosure?

Those post were very likely removed because they were all about that new drama that just popped up. Very likely those posts got removed to avoid any sort of witch hunting, which is something some users are very fond of. There's also a few posts that seemed spammish or off-topic.

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6 hours ago, (XB1)iDEATH said:

By censoring and making the use of certain words bannable you only give them more power. People will use them just to shock, so if you don't give them the reaction they are looking for, the reason for using the word disappears. You want the "n-word" and the "t-word" to lose their power? Stop freaking out when you hear them. It's that simple, except, of course, that we have to get everyone on board with that.

And, while we're doing that, the people who are actually affected by these words in a negative way can just go and deal with it?  How magnanimous of you.

37 minutes ago, Shadow-Spawn said:

The size of your playerbase will dwindle to Zero when they are getting censored constantly.

Or, maybe it will grow when people who are marginalized and stay away from chat due to people spamming slurs and other objectionable content learn to act with respect towards others?  I love all the attention that is place upon people who wish to act badly in chat and how we don't want to chase them away, while no one seem to want to think about people who avoid chat because of the boorish behavior of these bad actors.

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Some people seem to have a distorted view of free speech here, so lets clear it up.

You have no right to freedom of speech in a private venue. Your ability of speech in DE's property (forums, chat, etc) is a privilege granted by DE and can be revoked at any time should it be in their best interest to do so, say for example, if you're making their other customers uncomfortable.

Go ahead, try walking into a restaurant, or a bar, or a club and start yelling obscenities at random people and antagonize everyone. You'll be escorted out of the premises at best, or have the cops called on you at worst.

DE is simply doing what any other establishment would do to maintain an acceptable standard of behavior to maintain a good atmosphere around the game so as to not drive away entire groups of their existing and potential customer base. 

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Il y a 14 heures, [DE]Rebecca a dit :

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We'll see if your "professional Mod team" will delete this as usual.

My question is serious, however.

You are stating (again) that "problematic users" and "repeat offenders" only concern anti-feminism, racism, homophobia and transphobia. Why do you never talk about anti-male sexism ? Is it so tabou in North America ? Why are you deleting every post about that ?

Maybe I can't understand because I've never faced such a situation in game... Being insulted in a foreign language seems the only real threat in Warframe Europe 😅

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9 minutes ago, Hedasker said:

We'll see if your "professional Mod team" will delete this as usual.

My question is serious, however.

You are stating (again) that "problematic users" and "repeat offenders" only concern anti-feminism, racism, homophobia and transphobia. Why do you never talk about anti-male sexism ? Is it so tabou in North America ? Why are you deleting every post about that ?

Maybe I can't understand because I've never faced such a situation in game... Being insulted in a foreign language seems the only real threat in Warframe Europe 😅

Posts being deleted are because people keep trying to bring arguments that inflame the situation or are spamming. As for the bulk of your comment, at no point have they said that that those are the ONLY concerns just the main ones, they are deleting posts about "anti-male" sexism because generally it's rare and is just an attempt to change the subject.

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