stradavar prime.

[Shinjen]

Not every weapon has to be Redeemer Prime levels of broken to not be a disappointment. I'm pretty sure it does fine against 100 lvl enemies and you don't even see those guys most of the time with the content available.

[The_Mustachio]

I was hoping for some power creep on the prime as well. I’ve always like the reload animation and sound on It, but it was always a mid-tier weapon, imo. It’s still fun to use, but I always end up grabbing a stronger weapon. 

[Firedtm]

14 hours ago, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

maybe even a challenger to the tiberon.  

There are better weapons than the Tiberon prime, the recoil on it is really bad.

the Burston prime is better if you like burst fire, the Baza is better if you like full auto, as for semi auto yea the Tiberon prime is great for that(have not found a better weapon for that yet).

 

the point is the Tiberon is not the OP weapon every one makes it out to be.

as for the Stradavar prime, I think they did a really good job with it, really nice weapon I will keep using.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

I guess people were expecting the Stradavar Prime or Tipedo Prime to have a unique passive to bump them above their predecessors. At least I most certainly was, especially for Stradavar Prime’s semi-auto mode to bump it above the other semi-autos we have in game.

The innate 1m punchthrough is a forgettable afterthought, and consuming 2 ammo per shot isn’t something I necessarily find as a balancing point to compensate for its dps increase. Like I’ve said to everyone and every thread with regards to the Stradavar Prime - “I dunno man.”

[z3us32610]

I've now had two different neg impact rivens for the Strad and man.... That stat makes such a huge difference. The first one I had was insane. Crit chance, multishot and neg impact. The one I'm playing with now is friggin great for grineer: Reload speed, Damage to Grineer, Crit damage with neg Impact. I also have a Crit chance crit damage riven. Unfortunately, I sold the first one a while back even tho it was my favorite weapons. Still have the other two (took me 120 rolls to get crit chance, crit damage one, thank you double resource weekend lol).

I run Hunter munitions on the Strad on almost every build and the reload, damage to Grineer, crit damage riven just melts Grineer. Taking away the impact procs already makes headshots WAY easier coupled with the nonexistent recoil. Then double dipping with the Bane stat on the riven makes watching slash procs a LOT of fun. 

Rivens are definitely not needed on the Strad Prime but a solid negative impact one makes it an absolute stud.

[(XBOX)Deathjt1218]

It's good but not top tier.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

I think a lot of its thunder was stolen from a weapon they gave its gimmick to lol it's actually kind of messed up imo. Thought since they primed it they had an idea in mind but didn't feel that way when I finally got it.. I dunno. 

[spirit_of_76]

17 hours ago, Etan-gK said:

the problem is not the prime, it's the stradivar, the original

if I recall correctly the stradivar was one of the first weapons to have two firing modes, I seem to recall that being it's selling point

unfortunately, to keep it from being the most overpowered thing in the game, it could never excel at either mode, and was thus doomed to be mid tier at best

hype for the original stradivar and it's two firing modes came and went as the weapon failed to impress

the original has been out since may of 2016, I haven't seen anybody actually using it, for at least a year

the stradivar will always be an experimental weapon that failed to take off, it's prime just fills the joke prime slot the sicarius p left when it graduated into a real weapon

currently at its MR it does fairly good work but that is the standard one I have not been able to test the Pime yet but I expect that it will be a middle of the road gun.  

[Diavoros]

18 hours ago, Luciole77 said:

Am I the only one who was disappointed? -.-

 

5 formas and tested a lot. Soma prime/karak wraith/braton prime they are better than this new prime!

>soma prime
>karak wraith
>braton prime
You must be terrible with builds to say that either braton or karak wraith, that both are garbage, specially the karak, are better than stradavar prime
While indeed the stradavar prime is rather underwhelming, albeit only MR12, it's still better performer than the weapons you mentioned.

[YoshixInfinite]

I love how the Stradavar Prime isn't meta, that means it's Riven disposition won't be nerfed to death like so many other weapons.

[Luciole77]

2 hours ago, Diavoros said:

>soma prime
>karak wraith
>braton prime
You must be terrible with builds to say that either braton or karak wraith, that both are garbage, specially the karak, are better than stradavar prime
While indeed the stradavar prime is rather underwhelming, albeit only MR12, it's still better performer than the weapons you mentioned.

Your masterie?

[Diavoros]

31 minutes ago, Luciole77 said:

Your masterie?

23, although I could be 8 and still know the braton prime, karak wraith are garbage and soma prime has fallen behind with times.

[(PSN)Double991]

Tiberon Prime is still king of the rifles for me. I always saw Stradavar as more of a conclave gun but I think it was nerfed in there after some time.

They pre-nerfed the riven which probably hurt its potential even more.

[Xzorn]

Here.... DPS Calc for Auto mode... for now.

-Stradavar Prime-
Auto - 30 Damage 24% x2.6 Crit, 12% Status, 10 RoF, 90 Mag, 2.0 Reload
Hybrid Crit Build (Serration, Split Chamber, Primed Bane, Point Strike, Vital Sense, 90% Toxic, 60/60x2)

Serration / Primed Bane
30 ( 1 + 1.65) = 79.5
79.5 * 1.55 = 123.225
Point Strike / Vital Sense
0.24 * (1 + 1.5) = 0.6 = 60%
2.6 * (1 + 1.2) = 5.72x
Elemental 90% + 60% + 60%
123.225 * ( 0.9 + 0.6 + 0.6) = 258.7725
Multishot
(123.225 + 258.7725) * 1.9 = (234.1275 + 491.6678)
-Damage per Shot
(234.1275 + 491.6678) * (1 + (1- 5.72) * 0.6) = 2,781.25
-Burst DPS
(234.1275 + 491.6678) * (1 + (1- 5.72) * 0.6) * 10 = 27,812.5
-Sustained DPS
(234.1275 + 491.6678) * (1 + (1- 5.72) * 0.6) * 90 / [ 2.0 + ( 90 / 10)] = 22,755.68
Status Triggers per Second
0.12 * (1 + 0.6 + 0.6) * 1.9 = 0.5016 * 10 = 5.016

As a standard comparison Soma Prime Hybrid is about 23.7k Burst 19k Sustained with 3.3 Status triggers per second.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Xzorn

[(XBOX)Skiller115]

48 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Here.... DPS Calc for Auto mode... for now.

-Stradavar Prime-
Auto - 30 Damage 24% x2.6 Crit, 12% Status, 10 RoF, 90 Mag, 2.0 Reload
Hybrid Crit Build (Serration, Split Chamber, Primed Bane, Point Strike, Vital Sense, 90% Toxic, 60/60x2)

Serration / Primed Bane
30 ( 1 + 1.65) = 79.5
79.5 * 1.55 = 123.225
Point Strike / Vital Sense
0.24 * (1 + 1.5) = 0.6 = 60%
2.6 * (1 + 1.2) = 5.72x
Elemental 90% + 60% + 60%
123.225 * ( 0.9 + 0.6 + 0.6) = 258.7725
Multishot
(123.225 + 258.7725) * 1.9 = (234.1275 + 491.6678)
-Damage per Shot
(234.1275 + 491.6678) * (1 + (1- 5.72) * 0.6) = 2,781.25
-Burst DPS
(234.1275 + 491.6678) * (1 + (1- 5.72) * 0.6) * 10 = 27,812.5
-Sustained DPS
(234.1275 + 491.6678) * (1 + (1- 5.72) * 0.6) * 90 / [ 2.0 + ( 90 / 10)] = 22,755.68
Status Triggers per Second
0.12 * (1 + 0.6 + 0.6) * 1.9 = 0.5016 * 10 = 5.016

As a standard comparison Soma Prime Hybrid is about 23.7k Burst 19k Sustained with 3.3 Status triggers per second.

My Stradavar Prime has a Burst DPS of around 61k with a MS CC and CD with negative riven built using a hybrid Crit status build with 2 60/60 element and primed shred

[Xzorn]

16 minutes ago, (XB1)Skiller115 said:

My Stradavar Prime has a Burst DPS of around 61k with a MS CC and CD with negative riven built using a hybrid Crit status build with 2 60/60 element and primed shred

 

I don't use Rivens in public DPS calcs. People start asking me which is better and it never ends.

Also I think the base stats of a weapon should be the main reflection of it's performance. Not the Riven.

Ideally all Rivens should be 0.9 - 1.2 Disposition to vary for certain types AoE Vs Single Target, ect but this game has awful balancing and Rivens are used to bait players and incentivize monetary flow. Newbie weapons should be given upgrade variants instead of giving them 1.55 Disposition. It's kinda simple really but that reasonable range of Disposition will never happen.

[(XBOX)Skiller115]

8 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

I don't use Rivens in public DPS calcs. People start asking me which is better and it never ends.

Also I think the base stats of a weapon should be the main reflection of it's performance. Not the Riven.

Ideally all Rivens should be 0.9 - 1.2 Disposition to vary for certain types AoE Vs Single Target, ect but this game has awful balancing and Rivens are used to bait players and incentivize monetary flow. Newbie weapons should be given upgrade variants instead of giving them 1.55 Disposition. It's kinda simple really but that reasonable range of Disposition will never happen.

All they have to do is balance Weapons directly and not being lazy by only changing a tiny little number on the whim of the weapon being used more often.

Edited April 5, 2019 by (XB1)Skiller115

[Deadoon]

2 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Here.... DPS Calc for Auto mode... for now.

-Stradavar Prime-
Auto - 30 Damage 24% x2.6 Crit, 12% Status, 10 RoF, 90 Mag, 2.0 Reload
Hybrid Crit Build (Serration, Split Chamber, Primed Bane, Point Strike, Vital Sense, 90% Toxic, 60/60x2)

Serration / Primed Bane
30 ( 1 + 1.65) = 79.5
79.5 * 1.55 = 123.225
Point Strike / Vital Sense
0.24 * (1 + 1.5) = 0.6 = 60%
2.6 * (1 + 1.2) = 5.72x
Elemental 90% + 60% + 60%
123.225 * ( 0.9 + 0.6 + 0.6) = 258.7725
Multishot
(123.225 + 258.7725) * 1.9 = (234.1275 + 491.6678)
-Damage per Shot
(234.1275 + 491.6678) * (1 + (1- 5.72) * 0.6) = 2,781.25
-Burst DPS
(234.1275 + 491.6678) * (1 + (1- 5.72) * 0.6) * 10 = 27,812.5
-Sustained DPS
(234.1275 + 491.6678) * (1 + (1- 5.72) * 0.6) * 90 / [ 2.0 + ( 90 / 10)] = 22,755.68
Status Triggers per Second
0.12 * (1 + 0.6 + 0.6) * 1.9 = 0.5016 * 10 = 5.016

As a standard comparison Soma Prime Hybrid is about 23.7k Burst 19k Sustained with 3.3 Status triggers per second.

Honestly, you are kind of being a bit excessive with the exposition. Also primed bane without heavy caliber is actually worse than using heavy caliber. Heavy cal gives a 62% damage boost against all targets( vs serration alone: 4.3/2.65 = 1.62). Secondly: Primed cryo is a single slot 165% Modifier. To be fair, I see neither the soma nor the stradavar as hybrid guns, they don't work well for that role due to their rate is so low. Also you messed up your status/second significantly, using that build for the soma prime would net you 6.3/second.

Build I am using for no riven crit: Serration, heavy caliber, split chamber, vigilante armaments, Point strike, vital sense, Primed cryo rounds, vile acceleration(-3.5% damage +90% increased fire rate, 83% dps boost).  Could drop vigilante for 90% toxin for a slight boost to both dps(like 1.5%) and get viral, which once active will double your effective dps further, but against most targets I feel is unnecessary. Could swap vile for toxin to get improved ammo efficiency at the cost of fire rate and burst damage.

As for the calculation, you can even pop these in windows calculator and it will pop the damage per shot.

Base * (1+[damage boosts]) * (1+ [elemental]) * (1 +[multishot]) *(1 + [Base crit chance]*(1+[Crit chance mods])*([Base crit damage] *(1+[Crit damage mods]) -1))

Stradavar Prime has : 30 * (1+3.15) * (1+1.65)* (1+1.5) * (1 + .24 * (1+1.5) *( 2.6 *(1+1.2) -1)) = 3160 damage per shot average 19 rate of fire. 60k burst, 42k sustained, all targets affected equally.

Soma prime has:12 * (1+3.15) * (1+1.65)* (1+1.5) * (1 + .3 * (1+1.5) *( 3.0 *(1+1.2) -1)) = 1715 damage per shot average, 28.5. rate of fire, 49k burst, 29k sustained.

Ignoring vigilante effect, due to it's weirdness, but it can be considered a separate 5% chance to double crit which amounts to a ~14.1% damage boost for the stradavar, and 21% for the soma. It isn't tiny but since it only affects 1/20 critical bullets it is very inconsistent and unreliable.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2019 by Deadoon
Formatting

[Xzorn]

40 minutes ago, Deadoon said:

Honestly, you are kind of being a bit excessive with the exposition. Also primed bane without heavy caliber is actually worse than using heavy caliber. Heavy cal gives a 62% damage boost against all targets( vs serration alone: 4.3/2.65 = 1.62). Secondly: Primed cryo is a single slot 165% Modifier. To be fair, I see neither the soma nor the stradavar as hybrid guns, they don't work well for that role due to their rate is so low.

 

I think you missed the point of a Hybrid build. Regardless of flat damage output status will win even on the lowest of status rate weapons.

Primed Bane is only 5% less damage output than using Heavy Cal with no loss in accuracy. It also double dips into any DoT status effects which more than compensates outside the simple fact it can head-crit more accurately. Put simply Heavy Cal is the poor man's Primed Bane. The status triggers for Soma was simply because I forgot Multishot.

Soma can be modded to function against armor. It's simply not the best and as mentioned status eventually wins regardless against Armor. The build you posted would perform like absolute trash both Auto and Semi-Auto. Further by the fact Viral has no purpose outside a heavy Slash weighted weapon, CPx4 or very high scaled Corpus. Indeed a Soma modded to deal with armor is going to show very low DPS but will still kill far quicker.

I did the calculations step by step so it can be seen and checked not so it can be read back to me with one simple mistake on a quick Soma side-by-side. If you want to build your weapon poorly so it looks nice on paper; that's up to you. It's simply not a realistic build. What I posted will perform considerably better against high level armor and retain decent ammo economy. Given Stradavar's passive it might even be the first Assault Rifle that doesn't run out of ammo 10 minutes into a mission. You're just ruining that by adding needless bullet spray and not even using Primed Shred to do it.

[Deadoon]

3 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

I think you missed the point of a Hybrid build. Regardless of flat damage output status will win even on the lowest of status rate weapons.

Primed Bane is only 5% less damage output than using Heavy Cal with no loss in accuracy. It also double dips into any DoT status effects which more than compensates outside the simple fact it can head-crit more accurately. Put simply Heavy Cal is the poor man's Primed Bane. The status triggers for Soma was simply because I forgot Multishot.

Soma can be modded to function against armor. It's simply not the best and as mentioned status eventually wins regardless against Armor. The build you posted would perform like absolute trash both Auto and Semi-Auto. Further by the fact Viral has no purpose outside a heavy Slash weighted weapon, CPx4 or very high scaled Corpus. Indeed a Soma modded to deal with armor is going to show very low DPS but will still kill far quicker.

I did the calculations step by step so it can be seen and checked not so it can be read back to me with one simple mistake on a quick Soma side-by-side. If you want to build your weapon poorly so it looks nice on paper; that's up to you. It's simply not a realistic build. What I posted will perform considerably better against high level armor and retain decent ammo economy. Given Stradavar's passive it might even be the first Assault Rifle that doesn't run out of ammo 10 minutes into a mission. You're just ruining that by adding needless bullet spray and not even using Primed Shred to do it.

All rifles get 60 ammo per box now, it was an undocumented change at some point. I was mistaken and put that on the wiki, because I hadn't used an ammo hungry rifle in so long. The fact that you didn't notice that yet either says the same for you.

Heavy caliber is a universal damage amplifier, unlike bane, and the double dipping is a very minor influence unless you are going with a semi auto build to use the slash procs or gas build(fire doesn't stack so 1 and done), both specialized which benefit from high base damage. You are 100% wrong about viral though. It is an effective double damage if you can keep it active until their health hits 0, which at the damage output, it shouldn't be an issue. Cp*4 you are better off front loading the damage, as even without viral you will melt them in a fraction of a second(60kdps vs level 100 bombard is 2/3 of a second), and high scale corpus you would be better with a form of toxin build to bypass shield scaling and amplify vs health.

60k dps is enough to shed most enemies in this game barring the toughest in a moment, even at sortie tiers. I have been running a viral riven build, shreds bombards, gunners at level 100 in a second or so. My build is a universal build with high dps, some swap out capable components(as mentioned), and high innate damage. It is not built for bragging rights of fighting level 200-300 enemies which don't even appear under normal circumstances, it is built to be functional and reliable. If I wanted to be a meta slave I would be using the Tiberon prime in burst/full auto as my normal rifle.

[Xzorn]

6 minutes ago, Deadoon said:

All rifles get 60 ammo per box now, it was an undocumented change at some point. I was mistaken and put that on the wiki, because I hadn't used an ammo hungry rifle in so long. The fact that you didn't notice that yet either says the same for you.

Heavy caliber is a universal damage amplifier, unlike bane, and the double dipping is a very minor influence unless you are going with a semi auto build to use the slash procs or gas build(fire doesn't stack so 1 and done), both specialized which benefit from high base damage. You are 100% wrong about viral though. It is an effective double damage if you can keep it active until their health hits 0, which at the damage output, it shouldn't be an issue. Cp*4 you are better off front loading the damage, as even without viral you will melt them in a fraction of a second(60kdps vs level 100 bombard is 2/3 of a second), and high scale corpus you would be better with a form of toxin build to bypass shield scaling and amplify vs health.

60k dps is enough to shed most enemies in this game barring the toughest in a moment, even at sortie tiers. I have been running a viral riven build, shreds bombards, gunners at level 100 in a second or so. My build is a universal build with high dps, some swap out capable components(as mentioned), and high innate damage. It is not built for bragging rights of fighting level 200-300 enemies which don't even appear under normal circumstances, it is built to be functional and reliable. If I wanted to be a meta slave I would be using the Tiberon prime in burst/full auto as my normal rifle.

 

Because Assault Rifles are pretty much the worse weapon class in the game.

I don't care about universal damage. This is about maximizing the potential of a weapon and if you're too lazy to swap builds then talking about it is a waste of time and you omit the loss in accuracy because I know that's a win for any head-shot based weapon. I'm not wrong about Viral being poor outside specific situation because double damage when you're dealing with 99.37% mitigation is pointless. It's also pointless when Infested Eximus 100% negate that Viral damage with an Aura.

You would not be better off with Toxic against high level Corpus either due to the difference in HP / Shield scaling. Even the majority Shield units will end up 50/50 on Shields / Health. It becomes more productive to maximize DPS with a Viral proc to finish off half their remaining Health with lower status weapons. Toxic is also less effective against Robotics while Viral is not and the more dangerous enemies like Techs or Scrambus with very high Health prioritize Viral further. Pure Toxic works for Sorties or lower crap.

I do Elemental Sorties with pure Elemental weapons. M3 Survival with no mods on at all. You're trying to base your build performance on content where wrong choices and purposely doing things wrong doesn't matter. If you want to parse nonsense then by all means. Just don't tell me it's better when I very much know it's not. Fighting lvl 300 enemies isn't bragging rights It's simply where the game is these days made plain with bad builds functioning against enemies we fought 5 years ago with 1/10 the DPS.

Not my problem DE wants to keep trying to convince players lvl 100 is anything but a joke.

[Deadoon]

35 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

Because Assault Rifles are pretty much the worse weapon class in the game.

I don't care about universal damage. This is about maximizing the potential of a weapon and if you're too lazy to swap builds then talking about it is a waste of time and you omit the loss in accuracy because I know that's a win for any head-shot based weapon. I'm not wrong about Viral being poor outside specific situation because double damage when you're dealing with 99.37% mitigation is pointless. It's also pointless when Infested Eximus 100% negate that Viral damage with an Aura.

You would not be better off with Toxic against high level Corpus either due to the difference in HP / Shield scaling. Even the majority Shield units will end up 50/50 on Shields / Health. It becomes more productive to maximize DPS with a Viral proc to finish off half their remaining Health with lower status weapons. Toxic is also less effective against Robotics while Viral is not and the more dangerous enemies like Techs or Scrambus with very high Health prioritize Viral further. Pure Toxic works for Sorties or lower crap.

I do Elemental Sorties with pure Elemental weapons. M3 Survival with no mods on at all. You're trying to base your build performance on content where wrong choices and purposely doing things wrong doesn't matter. If you want to parse nonsense then by all means. Just don't tell me it's better when I very much know it's not. Fighting lvl 300 enemies isn't bragging rights It's simply where the game is these days made plain with bad builds functioning against enemies we fought 5 years ago with 1/10 the DPS.

Not my problem DE wants to keep trying to convince players lvl 100 is anything but a joke.

99.37 mitigation?  That's level 300 range enemies range, and is well beyond most everything. Maybe 1 in a thousand players do that stuff if you are lucky. Like I said, my build isn't a bragging rights build, and you are doing exactly that. 

I consider end game is the highest level content the highest challenge content that gives a unique reward, sorties, open world bosses, eso and similar are the current highest tier content. You get nothing special(except prodman poster) by going to your level of extremes. Your build doesn't even work that well in one end game setting, eso, due to it's bane mod is useless against multiple factions.

My build has a sprinting start of ttk but starts to fall off rapidly in the level 100-120 range, which is the highest normal tier of content. Yours will slower ttk at a lower level, but faster at a higher level and will just progressively take longer as enemies get stronger.

If you think fighting level 300 enemies is normal, you are really not in touch with the game anymore. My builds are for normal content, not player created endurance running.

[Lakais]

My biggest question when these discussions start is "What are you fighting, exactly, that you need this thing to be more powerful?" For the standard lineup of missions and bounties, it looks to be perfectly suited. Not everything revolves around lvl 100+ enemies and three hour long torture runs and I hope for everyone's sake that DE never starts to move in a direction that supports that masochistic style. 

If it can kick a lvl 50-60 enemy in the teeth with reasonable effort, it's working as intended. 

[bibmobello]

The only big advantage of stradavar prime is its innate 1m punch through.

[bibmobello]

3 hours ago, Lakais said:

My biggest question when these discussions start is "What are you fighting, exactly, that you need this thing to be more powerful?" For the standard lineup of missions and bounties, it looks to be perfectly suited. Not everything revolves around lvl 100+ enemies and three hour long torture runs and I hope for everyone's sake that DE never starts to move in a direction that supports that masochistic style. 

If it can kick a lvl 50-60 enemy in the teeth with reasonable effort, it's working as intended. 

I hope instead they change that direction because for now practically every weapon can kill easily level 60-100 enemies and running through the star chart pressing 4 or smashing the mouse button is not fun anymore. During a conference they already said they want to increase the difficulty.

In few years they released too many power creep weapons and mods without increasing the difficulty.

Edited April 5, 2019 by bibmobello