Yet, another rant of the wolf of saturn

[(PSN)Zero_029]

7 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

So why not post this in Feedback? This is General Discussion and not the feedback section. I get your anger and whatnot but you're not helping yourself.

I made a thread weeks ago over wolf's drops in Feedback. Like everything suggested in Warframe...got torn apart by the masochistic jackals who think Wolf's drop table is fine as is.

My main mantra for the Wolf is:

"The Star Character of "The Wolf of Saturn Six" should be someone players are excited to encounter."

Right now, The Wolf is EVERYTHING except exciting. I've had 3 groups where the entire team abandoned the mission leaving me alone to fight him.

Sadly, they were right to do so as he dropped nothing of value (Shocking Touch). He may as well have dropped 5 Ferrite or some Grokdrol or a single damn fish.

His reward table should be full of items that will excite players so that they want to encounter & defeat him.

[Hypernaut1]

I dunno, we had fun taking him down. It's a change of pace. 

[LordChronos]

i can only speak for me but today I killed a level 70 wolf with a catch moon in less than 5 minutes and I did 50% of the party damage. I can understand how hard it can be for any other weapon, of course. Maybe your other party members weren’t as prepared for wolf, OP?

[LordChronos]

I found the fight quite fun. 

[VoidWraith]

The fight itself isn't that bad. The problem is that all the effort to get no reward from it other then "I killed him, finally" is pretty bad.

[Mrevasivepants]

1 hour ago, LordChronos said:

i can only speak for me but today I killed a level 70 wolf with a catch moon in less than 5 minutes and I did 50% of the party damage. I can understand how hard it can be for any other weapon, of course. Maybe your other party members weren’t as prepared for wolf, OP?

Well as far as I know, the Arca Plasmor is a good weapon

 

[taiiat]

it was made clear that over the course of time, in exchange for massively nerfing the Damage Resistance of the Wolf, he's been gaining higher Damage.

 

anyways while sure, the Wolf is of limited interest as a Boss since he's immune to almost all Game Mechanics. Enemies attempting to be difficult by being immune to Game Mechanics is boo, sure.

however, what is a fun Boss in Warframe, anyways? there's basically no such thing, if you ask me. it's either going to be a gear check, immune to Game Mechanics, or a time check. or a mixture of those. our infinity Stats basically makes Bosses incapable of actually being interesting past like hearing the Dialogue once.

and it hasn't been getting better, more and more Bosses are just immune to Game Mechanics to "fix" our Stats, but that just requires us to use different Abilities that aren't made useless. so that nerfing of Game Mechanics is exactly what creates a ""meta"" in the first place. just as always, making Enemies immune to Game Mechanics causes more problems than it solves (since it doesn't solve any problems but creates some).

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

Took forever to see him until I finally did and got a part, every appearance after that was nothing. No idea what to do as far as ever getting the weapon when it's all over. Doesn't help that he doesn't appear during syndicate missions either. Also annoyed how he just soaks up damage when I found him in a group when running relics. There was no challenge to it, it was just all of us throwing damage his way and watching him shrug it off and just waiting for him to finally lose all his health.

[Mrevasivepants]

33 minutes ago, taiiat said:

it was made clear that over the course of time, in exchange for massively nerfing the Damage Resistance of the Wolf, he's been gaining higher Damage.

 

anyways while sure, the Wolf is of limited interest as a Boss since he's immune to almost all Game Mechanics. Enemies attempting to be difficult by being immune to Game Mechanics is boo, sure.

however, what is a fun Boss in Warframe, anyways? there's basically no such thing, if you ask me. it's either going to be a gear check, immune to Game Mechanics, or a time check. or a mixture of those. our infinity Stats basically makes Bosses incapable of actually being interesting past like hearing the Dialogue once.

and it hasn't been getting better, more and more Bosses are just immune to Game Mechanics to "fix" our Stats, but that just requires us to use different Abilities that aren't made useless. so that nerfing of Game Mechanics is exactly what creates a ""meta"" in the first place. just as always, making Enemies immune to Game Mechanics causes more problems than it solves (since it doesn't solve any problems but creates some).

True, Though if you count Eidolons as bosses they're by far the most fun I've had on the topic. Exploiter Orb is also a really cool fight imo.

[Yamazuki]

I don't mind him, it just seems odd to have a "boss" that drops zero things, and no, I'm not saying his weapon is too rare, but the fact he's been dropping absolutely nothing. All I've been getting after they changed him is the small amount of standing from his friends, which should probably at least be increased given he has to die.

[Faiyze]

He's not too tanky if you can get rid of his armor whether that's through 4 corrosive projections (gluck with that in a public group), through the use of Frost's Avalanche, or through the use of Oberon's Hallowed Ground-Reckoning combination. Also kind of the reason why I've been running Oberon more lately lol, the Wolf's a joke when he loses all his armor, I've killed him with a Sybaris, Rubico, Pyrana, Soma, Tenora in less than 10 minutes with 4 member parties. Regardless though, I do agree his drop table's pretty trash so he's not even worth having to use specific frames or combinations added in with the fact that his spawns are completely random. If he gave some harder to get mods or unique or exclusive mods then it wouldn't really be a problem, issue with exclusives/unique mods though is that they'd be limited to this event which would suck for future players but that'd give it much more value.

[Guest]

Pax Charge Catchmoon seems kinda OK for killing him in less than 12 mins, even on a max level spawn of 75, if modded for rad.

No ammo issues here, obviously.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Guest

[(XBOX)Oussii]

18 hours ago, Mrevasivepants said:

I hope this is the last time I have to make a topic about this, but I'm pretty sure DE stealth buffed the wolf of saturn.
After the supposed "Significant nerf on his tankiness" I could take him down in less than a minute with a full squad with a rubico prime.

As of yesterday however? well, see for yourself

In advance, sorry if the quality is butchered, youtube did that, if anyone knows how to better the quality of your videos please notify me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyObj3AJLjU&feature=youtu.be

 

The video starts midway, but it pretty much took us 8-10 minutes of constantly going down due to 1 hit kills from the wolf and his prodigys throwing cocktail molotovs EVEN THOUGH they're asleep by Equinox's ability.

And in the end... no rewards.

This is a joke DE, I am physically angry right now, prior to this fight I got the wolf again and I was FORCED to leave because 4 people with Ignis Wraiths barely chopped a quarter of his hp after 10 full minutes of constant firing.

I said it and I'll repeat, if you don't fix the wolf of saturn I'm alright with it, BUT PLEASE for the love of all Stop signs on earth cease and desist with this approach of a boss. Despite what the minority of masochists and overall Sekiro tryhard fans think this is not FUN. This is a chore, and I already have real life for that kind of thing in case life gets too sweeter when playing video games.

I'm gonna go eat Ice cream now and hope you forgive me for this venting, but its either that or a tantrum while facehugging the pillow.

strange. i always face him, and i never die

It takes 30 sec to kill.

https://youtu.be/W7gwRfOlIOk

 

[Veridian]

Walking through a Nightmare rescue with a fresh forma Saryn and an Atterax.
I was planning to calmly level and relax.
Unbeknown to me, our group was being stalked by a shade.
Reveal yourself, I bade
From the forest came a Wolf as big as level eighty two
We realized our target's time was due
Please Wolf, don't kill our rescue target we cried but the mean wolf did, a thousand times. (every 5-10 sec)
Our group of brave hunters was determined to execute him for his crimes
We fought with sticks and stones        (Operators and Archguns)
Always rushing to our rescue target's groans
The battle raged all night, a vicious fight (approx. 38 min)
But finally, the Wolf fell before our might
The beast had fallen, a fight to be remembered in history
But his treasure has yet to be revealed, a mystery
Reader, you've surely felt what it was like
For it was yet another Fever Strike


 

TLDR:
Had to fight an 82 wolf with unleveled gear/operator/archgun for a good 40 minutes in a Lua nightmare capture for nothing. I can tolerate the 1shoting bullet sponge for 40 minutes, but at least give me something.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Ver1dian

[Im_a_Turtle]

19 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

i have a feeling that if DE takes all the feedback regarding the Wolf into account, the next Nightwave boss is gonna be way too easy...

He doesn't need to be too easy, he needs to drop something worthy than wasting our time. I've already had the scant few times i've had him spawn in drop nothing but 2 molten impacts and the other two times drop nothing. No nightwave rep, nothing.

[taiiat]

7 hours ago, Mrevasivepants said:

True, Though if you count Eidolons as bosses they're by far the most fun I've had on the topic. Exploiter Orb is also a really cool fight imo.

aside from screen covering VFX spam, Eidolons and Profit Taker are pretty ok, yes. Magnetic Spheres kinda punish us for not bypassing it to cruise control, and the belly Turrets of both of those Spiders shooting through their own body and also the Terrain is super lame - but overall sure, they're acceptable.

Profit-Taker is immune to some extra Game Mechanics that Eidolons aren't to, unfortunately.

5 hours ago, Faiyze said:

He's not too tanky if you can get rid of his armor 

FYI, if you're using Radiation Damage.... you're not gaining anything of significance by Stripping Armor, infact even losing Damage.
stripping his Armor is to compensate for when you have bad Damage Types, not for when you have good Damage Types. this being due to how low his Base Armor is.

you could try to min/max by weakening but not removing the Armor, i guess. kind've a lot of work in that regard though, that leaves room for an unexpected Player to remove it and make the fight take longer.

 

 

3 hours ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

strange. i always face him, and i never die
It takes 30 sec to kill.

to be fair, your example is a bit above half the Level of the example you quoted - so in the quoted example, the Enemy has like 3.5x the Health.

and as for Armor, if your example, the Armor you're effectively fighting at Lv39 with your Weapon, is lower than his Lv1 Armor. while in the quoted example, the effective Armor at lv68 is comparable to his Lv24 Armor.
(assuming optimal Damage Types)

or if we remove Weapons from the equation entirely, the Wolf in that example Spawned with ~6x the EHP.

Edited April 9, 2019 by taiiat

[Umbranoir]

I like the new boss, adds some sort of intensity to missions though I agree, perhaps a bit more in terms of rewards would be nice.

[(XBOX)Oussii]

19 minutes ago, taiiat said:

aside from screen covering VFX spam, Eidolons and Profit Taker are pretty ok, yes. Magnetic Spheres kinda punish us for not bypassing it to cruise control, and the belly Turrets of both of those Spiders shooting through their own body and also the Terrain is super lame - but overall sure, they're acceptable.

Profit-Taker is immune to some extra Game Mechanics that Eidolons aren't to, unfortunately.

FYI, if you're using Radiation Damage.... you're not gaining anything of significance by Stripping Armor, infact even losing Damage.
stripping his Armor is to compensate for when you have bad Damage Types, not for when you have good Damage Types. this being due to how low his Base Armor is.

you could try to min/max by weakening but not removing the Armor, i guess. kind've a lot of work in that regard though, that leaves room for an unexpected Player to remove it and make the fight take longer.

 

 

to be fair, your example is a bit above half the Level of the example you quoted - so in the quoted example, the Enemy has like 3.5x the Health.

and as for Armor, if your example, the Armor you're effectively fighting at Lv39 with your Weapon, is lower than his Lv1 Armor. while in the quoted example, the effective Armor at lv68 is comparable to his Lv24 Armor.
(assuming optimal Damage Types)

or if we remove Weapons from the equation entirely, the Wolf in that example Spawned with ~6x the EHP.

i don't care of all this mumbo jumbo, i play inaros and catchmoon in all mission except for spy. so whenever he shows up (as always) at any level,  he gets his a$$ wiped. plain and simple.

Inaros is immortal, and my catchmoon is a judgement day weapon. end of story

[taiiat]

10 minutes ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

i don't care of all this mumbo jumbo

so you don't care about understanding the game.
my apologies. i assumed that understanding was the fundamental goal of life.

[(XBOX)Oussii]

i do understand it well. i made an immortal frame and a weapon that kills any level, so no worry

Point is fighting wolf is like a walk in the park

[Faiyze]

43 minutes ago, taiiat said:

FYI, if you're using Radiation Damage.... you're not gaining anything of significance by Stripping Armor, infact even losing Damage.
stripping his Armor is to compensate for when you have bad Damage Types, not for when you have good Damage Types. this being due to how low his Base Armor is.

you could try to min/max by weakening but not removing the Armor, i guess. kind've a lot of work in that regard though, that leaves room for an unexpected Player to remove it and make the fight take longer

Yup, that's true, although I don't bring radiation weapons for general use unless it's against Eidolons anyway, minmaxing isn't too important regarding elements and whatnot unless you're going for very long endless missions against grineer. Since it's public groups as well, I can't account for what everyone else uses or are bringing so full armor strip is just more effective for general play anyway imo unless you're specifically attempting to hunt the Wolf with a premade group. In which case, we'd just run three CPs with maybe 2 coactions with radiation weapons.

Ofc, the damage increase one gains from full armor strip is completely based on what they bring to the mission, I just prefer to go full armor strip so I can at least solo it in 5-10 minutes even with 3 other players in cases where there may newbies who won't be able to do any damage anyway (before the Wolf got nerfed, I can solo the wolf with 2-6 Pyrana clips now depending on if there're enemies to proc it's passive so 1-3 mins now). Full armor strip's just a safer option than minmaxing in pubs imo since we can't plan for our squad members xD

[VanFanel1980mx]

22 hours ago, Aldain said:

This is a bigger problem than him taking 10 minutes to fight, if he would drop something even remotely worth it more players might actually not hate him as much....at least that's how I'd feel, not sure about everyone else.

Maybe if he gave 500 NW standing at least.

[(PSN)Eluminary]

I had him spawn today lvl 69 full squad shooting him for 15 minutes straight killed it and it dropped nothing.... If they are going to make it this time consuming to kill the drop rate needs to go up.

[Atomic_Beam]

700 runs and i saw him only once. It got killed instantly, didnt see him at all and of course... It dropped nothing. THX DE

[(PSN)Limorkil]

As I posted elsewhere, my first and only kill took 45 minutes.  He appeared again last night and I used my zaw on him (not radiation, zero combo counter at the start) and his health went down 20% in a short period.  I was low health at that point and decided to run to extraction because there is little chance of a decent reward.  But this made me believe that with the right weapon he might not be too bad.  

Still, if there’s no reward of note then it’s not worth my time killing him.  So he ruins missions on a regular basis which is not fun.  Unlike Stalker, he appears very frequently.   Even if he gave 400 Nightwave points I’d fight him, but there’s just no incentive right now.

Tip: for most missions you can lead him far from his buddies, then go back and kill them afterwards.  He follows you relentlessly.

 

Edited April 9, 2019 by (PS4)Limorkil