How Night wave burned out my full clan.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

NW is not grindy at all. Most of the challenges overlap. Most can be done doing other things you want to do be it Fissures, bounties, syndicates etc.  You have an entire week to do them.

 

And those that can't (60 min w/friends e.g.) can flat out be skipped.  If anyone is quitting because NW is too grindy, WF is not the game for them. If an entire clan quit - they would have quit anyway NW or no NW.

 

[Softballbryan]

Relax and play the game at whatever your ability and desire... it’s a game and if you want something from it, plan and work accordingly.. don’t ring you’re hands thinking you’re gonna miss out.... it’s a game in the end

i do think DE needs to work out some kinks for beginners... they can make it smoother for them... they are not gonna make harder nightwave as people are crying over some of it now...

[Shiichibukai]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb FlusteredFerret:

 

No burnout here...

 

Just because you dont get burnout, doesnt mean other people dont. Hate those kind of comments "I DoNT HaVE IT so OtHErS CaNT EiThEr Hurr Durr"

[Alexandrious]

7 hours ago, Kaimera_Prime said:

How Night wave burned out my full clan.

 

At the start of night wave like most I was exited to see what it would bring. This was followed by the horrid realization that to get anything of real interest to me I would have to grind through 27 levels of what I would consider near pointless items (bar the forma) to most people that have played for more than 6 months.

 

As I am a guild leader of what at the time was a clan of at least 20-30 people playing at peak times and most of my clan being new to the game. I enjoy teaching new people the details of the game and openly recruited new players

 

Night wave destroyed this. The grind required to get the useful items was a grind so bad that even with my more experienced members helping new players this was a massive toll on the clans leadership. 60 min missions that would be ruined by one ass hole basically meant having me and my officers having to spend hours on end in 60 min missions with lower MR ranked members.

 

All of this has resulted I an immediate and massive drop off of people playing the very week the rank 30 was hit by most members. This includes myself. Night wave is not new content its just daily missions linked to a massive grind. There is no faction or syndicate behind it. hell all of the items you can buy with wolf credits could have been set as rewards for a lotus specific syndicate that could have had things added to it with each new Warframe that was released Alt helms for example.

 

I hope that with new content that comes out my clan will recover from the burn out from this event but I fear that a lot of the new players will not return thanks to the grind that was basically mandatory to get the umbra forma that every one of the veteran members are after and the cosmetics of the wolf armor that the full event was based around.

Also Nora night got massively annoying after the 1st day. i am not "the once and future bad ass" for doing a dam emote. this needs a mute option placed on the night wave window. It just drives people up the wall when she talks now.

 

TLDR Night wave has killed my clan through burnout.

I started playing warframe on week 4 of nightwave. Brand new to everything. Did everything by myself and any that required a friend or clanmate I just lfged on recruitment. 

Now im rank 29 on nightwave, one week to go, then will anxiously await the next one to get a second umbra to complete my Ultimate Broberon build. I am MR15, have a powerful riven for my tiberon and gram prime, and nearly have a catchmoon. I can outdps most mr 24 plus players even.....on a support frame. I have 130 hours play time.

I did all this as a complete noob and your entire clan has trouble....? Burned out? 

......

Is this a git gut thread? 😕

Edited May 1, 2019 by Alexandrious

[SneakyErvin]

15 minutes ago, Shiichibukai said:

Just because you dont get burnout, doesnt mean other people dont. Hate those kind of comments "I DoNT HaVE IT so OtHErS CaNT EiThEr Hurr Durr"

But honestly, how does 3 hours per week burn someone out? That is 3 hours you need to spend on nightwave over 7 days. That is around 25 minutes per day.

Oh gawds nooooooo! The torment!

[FlusteredFerret]

20 minutes ago, Shiichibukai said:

Just because you dont get burnout, doesnt mean other people dont. Hate those kind of comments "I DoNT HaVE IT so OtHErS CaNT EiThEr Hurr Durr"

Well done for completely missing the point. 

 

Which was that it is completely possible to play games WITHOUT hardcore grinding and getting burned out.

I haven't even been half-a$$ing Nightwave. More like quarter-a$$ing it. Just playing a few hours here and there and I'm still at rank 21...which is a lot farther than I thought I'd get.

Just making the time to do the 65% of challenges every week, or adjusting your play schedule to make sure you average 65% overall would be enough to get you all the way.

Hardcore grinding and burnout is the result of poor planning. If you're serious about completing events, a bit of forward planning can save you a lot of grief.

 

Also OP and his clan brought the problem on themselves by trying to carry newbies through Elite challenges.

 

[EvilChaosKnight]

3 minutes ago, Alexandrious said:

-snip-

Congrats. You rushed through everything like crazy. See you in 6-12 months complaining about having nothing to do. If you'll still be playing that is.

Anyway, about NW burnout. Seems like quite a few people either have extremely bad grasp on what actually causes problems with Nightshi... Nightwave. 1st and biggest problem is the homework chore list with a limited time. Idk about you guys, but I graduated university over 6 years ago. I don't need a new source of limited time homework-like assignments in my life.

"But play normally!" some might argue. And miss the mark. Again. I don't normally do invasions. Not anymore. I don't normally do Plains of Dolan bounties, let alone 8 of them. Not anymore. I don't do nightmares. Not anymore. Catching my drift? Prob. not. A lot of us have long finished the parts of game NW is trying to bring our attention to. And it's fair to say that quite a few of these parts aren't exactly fun either, often depending on RNG (like rare gems). Oh, and who the hell looks for sab. caches anymore (even since they've removed void keys), unless you seriously believe in miracles that the landing craft part will drop.

Second problem. Investment vs Rewards. What do you get for completing these "challenges", some of which take quite a while (3/5 sorties, 9 invasions, etc.) or take plenty of investment (gild a modular weapon/3 formas)? You get pitful amount of customer loyalty points. It's not even a currency, it's STANDING which you increase to GET CURRENCY. Eventually. And not a whole lot of that to boot. So... how many missions would that be per 1 unit of alertium (nitain)? How many missions per alt helmet? Certainly more than 2. Likely, more than 10.

"But the old alerts were bad! You had a pay to sleep system!" Right. Not really. First of all, thanks to Deathsnacks, notification apps and such, you didn't have to camp the game. As long as you were home with an access to your computer, you could get them. But, say, you missed your chance anyway. Work, sleep, family, etc. They all require time, and that's how life is after all. When are you going to see that nitain again? Tomorrow. Or later today most likely. When are you gonna see that specific helmet? Yea, that might take a few weeks to get back into rotation. Prob. the only items which alerts were kinda stingy with. Vauban parts? Were a mistake IMO. DE just had to move him to clan research or something. But you know what wasn't the case? Having to choose between nitain, auras, helmets and potatoes on a highly limited budget.

So in the end you have a system with tenfold increased amount of required work (and if you call multiple PoE bounties or 40 Def waves fun, I can direct you to a freshly painted wall you can stare at for more "fun"), massive abuse of FOMO and layered grind which sometimes relies on other grind to even be possible (Profit taker fight). What not to love, hey? You can work towards your rewards! Yeah. I work IRL already for other rewards called money which are far more valuable. I have enough of it in my life.

So, solution:
1. Bring alerts back. To hell with overlapping rewards. Didn't stop DE before with relics, some mods, and resources dropping everywhere. Shouldn't stop them now, either.
2. Make ALL Nigthwave challenges available at ALL times. However, cap the rep you can get from weeklies and elite weeklies to 40k (+500 per MR?). Dailies and other sources should be unaffected by the cap, naturally. Now, you can play the game and earn NW points without having to grind! Isn't that wonderful?
3. Do something about the bloody cred shop. Then again, if alerts are to be brought back, it wouldn't be bad really. So, maybe not.

[Alexandrious]

4 minutes ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

Congrats. You rushed through everything like crazy. See you in 6-12 months complaining about having nothing to do. If you'll still be playing that is.

Anyway, about NW burnout. Seems like quite a few people either have extremely bad grasp on what actually causes problems with Nightshi... Nightwave. 1st and biggest problem is the homework chore list with a limited time. Idk about you guys, but I graduated university over 6 years ago. I don't need a new source of limited time homework-like assignments in my life.

"But play normally!" some might argue. And miss the mark. Again. I don't normally do invasions. Not anymore. I don't normally do Plains of Dolan bounties, let alone 8 of them. Not anymore. I don't do nightmares. Not anymore. Catching my drift? Prob. not. A lot of us have long finished the parts of game NW is trying to bring our attention to. And it's fair to say that quite a few of these parts aren't exactly fun either, often depending on RNG (like rare gems). Oh, and who the hell looks for sab. caches anymore (even since they've removed void keys), unless you seriously believe in miracles that the landing craft part will drop.

Second problem. Investment vs Rewards. What do you get for completing these "challenges", some of which take quite a while (3/5 sorties, 9 invasions, etc.) or take plenty of investment (gild a modular weapon/3 formas)? You get pitful amount of customer loyalty points. It's not even a currency, it's STANDING which you increase to GET CURRENCY. Eventually. And not a whole lot of that to boot. So... how many missions would that be per 1 unit of alertium (nitain)? How many missions per alt helmet? Certainly more than 2. Likely, more than 10.

"But the old alerts were bad! You had a pay to sleep system!" Right. Not really. First of all, thanks to Deathsnacks, notification apps and such, you didn't have to camp the game. As long as you were home with an access to your computer, you could get them. But, say, you missed your chance anyway. Work, sleep, family, etc. They all require time, and that's how life is after all. When are you going to see that nitain again? Tomorrow. Or later today most likely. When are you gonna see that specific helmet? Yea, that might take a few weeks to get back into rotation. Prob. the only items which alerts were kinda stingy with. Vauban parts? Were a mistake IMO. DE just had to move him to clan research or something. But you know what wasn't the case? Having to choose between nitain, auras, helmets and potatoes on a highly limited budget.

So in the end you have a system with tenfold increased amount of required work (and if you call multiple PoE bounties or 40 Def waves fun, I can direct you to a freshly painted wall you can stare at for more "fun"), massive abuse of FOMO and layered grind which sometimes relies on other grind to even be possible (Profit taker fight). What not to love, hey? You can work towards your rewards! Yeah. I work IRL already for other rewards called money which are far more valuable. I have enough of it in my life.

So, solution:
1. Bring alerts back. To hell with overlapping rewards. Didn't stop DE before with relics, some mods, and resources dropping everywhere. Shouldn't stop them now, either.
2. Make ALL Nigthwave challenges available at ALL times. However, cap the rep you can get from weeklies and elite weeklies to 40k (+500 per MR?). Dailies and other sources should be unaffected by the cap, naturally. Now, you can play the game and earn NW points without having to grind! Isn't that wonderful?
3. Do something about the bloody cred shop. Then again, if alerts are to be brought back, it wouldn't be bad really. So, maybe not.

Complain? Brah, I have a backlog of over 200 games I havent started or finish, and I play ffxiv mainly. Soon as im done with all warframe content, ill be playing something else, only coming bk whenever new content is out lol. 

Filthy casual 😀

[EvilChaosKnight]

Just now, Alexandrious said:

Complain? Brah, I have a backlog of over 200 games I havent started or finish, and I play ffxiv mainly. Soon as im done with all warframe content, ill be playing something else, only coming bk whenever new content is out lol. 

Filthy casual 😀

 

6 minutes ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

If you'll still be playing that is.

Way exactly to prove my point. Perhaps, reading isn't your strongest skill though.
Neither is writing. I mean seriously? Emojis and ad-hominems? Perhaps, it would be better to actually wish you to complete Warframe as soon as possible so that you could move on. Preferably far enough away.

[(PSN)segulibanez65]

6 hours ago, Kaimera_Prime said:

people stating that the burn out is my fault are correct i fully admit it. i could of handled it better. but it also burned out the new players i think nightwave failed in a way other warframe content has not because it had a time limited items i.e the umbra forma and wolf armour. and from what i know and please correct me if i am wong it has not been confirmed that these will return on a semi reguler basis.

Its your fault in that you are a human susceptible to psychological manipulation.  Everyone seems to be ignoring or defending the fact that Nightmoves is a skinner box within a skinner box.  Its ALMOST tantamount to victim blaming...  How dare you have a functioning mesolimbic system and that filthy neurotransmitter dopamine! lol.  Also, even if it wasn't YOU feeling you had to do every mission, being a clan leader kind of puts it on you to help those that either feel compelled to do all of it or are afraid DE would go back on their word and pull the event at 6 weeks, etc.  Being there to help is the entire point of a clan, especially one focused on ushering new players through the learning stage, so I can definitely see how it could decimate the morale of the group.  People were irrationally afraid they would not get to r29, people that I know are not completionist-types, but that is the entire point of a battlepass-like system.  Its much more participating in a psychological study than it is a game mechanic designed around enjoyment.

So I feel you entirely.  I only did the ones I could be bothered to do (just reached 30 on Sun) yet even though I ignored the parts that were not at all appealing and even running missions I would have ran anyway, it still felt like a chore to the point that after the 2nd/3rd week I was doing ~15k worth of progress a week and then quitting WF entirely until the next week started.  I now haven't logged in since hitting 30 and for the first time over 3 accounts on 2 platforms I don't even want to get over the burnout to eventually return if this is what WF is going to be moving forward.  Prior to this new system I always had enough friends playing to put together a full party when I got sick of soloing, but not in the last month or so.  Maybe it was just a case of simultaneous burnout, but they all shared the same disdain for Nightmare that I did so its doubtful.

Hopefully it changes enough to alleviate this; I adore the core of this game and it would be a shame to just drop it entirely, but we'll see I guess. Burnout is normal in WF but it seems to have hit a lot of people at the exact same time, and I don't think its a coincidence.  Even the Youtuber Brozime stated Nightterrors (and especially the ridiculous ephemera grind) partially contributed to his burnout and hiatus, and he makes a living playing the game, so...

[BDMblue]

Why would you help your clan members do a 60 min after 60 min game.... just let them go to pub chat and find there own team. 

 

I mean maybe your clan clan has no research and the only way you keep people is this but that’s your own problem. Should have just joined a full research one and been done with it.

[3rdpig]

I skipped most of the annoying missions and hit 30 over a week ago. 

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

6 hours ago, Firetempest said:

I missed a few full weeks of challenges because... Meh, Satisfactory and other games dropped in. It ends the 15th right? I'm at lvl24 for not trying. People who really tried finished 30 like several weeks ago. So, it seems you can easily just pass up every single annoying challenge and make 30 long before its ended half trying. New players don't need the ~160 alertium for building everything in a single nightwave. It took months with normal alerts to collect helmets. Eventually after a few seasons, new players will run out of things they really want or feel they need as well. Perhaps they could drip feed credits differently, like per level, but its not that bad.

I put a recommendation in the feedback forum that they should include a progress bar that gives a better Idea of how much total they need, and the average amount per week they need to achieve max rank.  Part of the problem, if you dig down on the complaints, is people didn't understand they didn't need to kill themselves to max out.

[-NightmareMoon-]

I think you clan need to hit the gym once in a while if playing a game is burning you guys out lmao.

[Aldain]

2 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

Doesnt mean Im forbidden from telling how much of a s*** it is. 

According to this forum it does.

I swear its gotten worse around here, in the span of months too. Or maybe Nightwave just kicked the beehive of "Shut up and leave" players.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Aldain

[Aldain]

3 minutes ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

He's a lost cause. Don't bother.

^That.

Best way to deal with these people is to stop responding and talk around them, its the same way you deal with children throwing a tantrum.

[EvilChaosKnight]

Just now, Aldain said:

^That.

Best way to deal with these people is to stop responding and talk around them, its the same way you deal with children throwing a tantrum.

Basically.

So, what's would people think about this?

1 hour ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

1. Bring alerts back. To hell with overlapping rewards. Didn't stop DE before with relics, some mods, and resources dropping everywhere. Shouldn't stop them now, either.
2. Make ALL Nigthwave challenges available at ALL times. However, cap the rep you can get from weeklies and elite weeklies to 40k (+500 per MR?). Dailies and other sources should be unaffected by the cap, naturally. Now, you can play the game and earn NW points without having to grind! Isn't that wonderful?
3. Do something about the bloody cred shop. Then again, if alerts are to be brought back, it wouldn't be bad really. So, maybe not.

Since NW was originally advertised as "earn stuff by just playing the game" I feel like the chore list concept by itself needs a rework.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, -Temp0- said:

And of course more blatant lies.

Even IF it was 3 hours, which is most often way more, its still 3 hours of doing utter ****, unrelated to most other activities you would normally do so at best you're gonna spend 3 EXTRA hours on a game per week, doing as boring as watching paint dry activities for no rewards. Seriously? Umbra forma at the very END, meh very mediocre socmetics at the very end - which I can already buy and better ones doing LESS, doing something I want, enjoy and like doing. All those miracles for doing boring busywork, chores every day and every week for approx 10 weeks.

What a great way to drop dead from boredom.

No it isnt blatant lies. It doesnt take more than 3 hours out of a week to finish nightwave. Yes some of those 3 hours I would deem wasted because it is done in content I absolutely have no need for, but most of it is done in content I can actually use. Most of it will either get me relics or have me crack relics, so I'll get relics or parts I may need or parts to sell/hand off to the baro kiosk.

Add in the actual rewards for nightwave rank 1-30 and those missions that would otherwise be a waste actually gives me quite alot for the time and effort spent.

There were only a few things between rank 1-30 that I couldnt do in my regular gameplay rotation in WF each week. I could have completely skipped those and still hit rank 30 well before the series ends. So it isnt actually 3 hours of wasted time per week, or 3 extra hours needed since many of the things get completed passivley if you just have a slight clue when it comes to pre-planning.

 

 

[Alexandrious]

1 minute ago, Aldain said:

^That.

Best way to deal with these people is to stop responding and talk around them, its the same way you deal with children throwing a tantrum.

Im not throwing a tantrum fam. Im not the one coming in here whining about something so very easy, so little time consuming and so avoidable. 

Best way to deal with these people is to tell them to man up and remind them how easy and good they got it compared to games many years ago. If they still cant learn, then they are lost causes, and just another bad contributor to why we cant have good creative content in online games anymore, cuz devs dont wanna take the risk. 

[Test-995]

13 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

Youre the one who is moaning and whining, what I do is called feedback. 

And no feedback isnt just a** kissing praising every breath DE takes so go grind some more bs like nightwave for no rewards while people are trying to make it better, you're free to eat *** all you want.

This is general discussion tho...

[(PSN)segulibanez65]

1 minute ago, Aldain said:

According to this forum it does.

I swear its gotten worse around here, in the span of months too. Or maybe Nightwave just kicked the beehive of "Shut up and leave" players.

Yup, right about the time Nightwave released.  People either love it or loathe it.  Even without going on a tangent on how I feel about it, I will say since it started I have for the first time had nitain shortages and bought more silver potatoes than ever before.  So its a total failure in their stated purpose of newer players having easier access to the essentials, yet it seems to be a resounding success in its true goal: driving plat purchases of that which could be gotten readily in alerts (in my opinion).  I'd really be cursing it if I needed nitain for frames/etc and not just cosmetic helmets

[Aldain]

Just now, EvilChaosKnight said:

So, what's would people think about this?

I fully agree that the alert system could coexist in some fashion with Nightwave, even if they stripped the helmets and mods from it.

However I think Nightwave's burnout comes from the awkward sequence of rank rewards and how they taper off in usefulness after about rank 15ish.

Making a weekly Rep cap would just be swapping one issue for another and honestly I'm not sure how to go about designing a system that could both provide incentive to play and prevent burnout, at least not completely.

As for the Cred shop, creds need to be more plentiful imo even if they have to increase the price of the potatos to accomadate. They could also stand to reduce to cost of the filler weapons since many new players would use those for MR while other players would ignore them completely.

[Alexandrious]

Yea...no. nightwave is fine as it is. They can do more diverse things with it sure. But otherwise, anyone burning out on it is doing it wrong. I work a 40 a week job, workout at least 7 hours a week, play ffxiv mainly and other games, started warframe late into nightwave, and yet I still manage to get my forma, all the weapons and nitain. 

This is a entitlement issue. What needs correction is your clans playstyle. Nuff said.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Im still confused on how you "burn out" on nightwave. None of these challenges are that hard to do,  only one that comes close is the kuva surv but the right comp of warframes make that a cake walk and are people really "burning out" on doing a sortie, doing some fishing and picking up mods?

[SneakyErvin]

6 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I fully agree that the alert system could coexist in some fashion with Nightwave, even if they stripped the helmets and mods from it.

However I think Nightwave's burnout comes from the awkward sequence of rank rewards and how they taper off in usefulness after about rank 15ish.

Making a weekly Rep cap would just be swapping one issue for another and honestly I'm not sure how to go about designing a system that could both provide incentive to play and prevent burnout, at least not completely.

As for the Cred shop, creds need to be more plentiful imo even if they have to increase the price of the potatos to accomadate. They could also stand to reduce to cost of the filler weapons since many new players would use those for MR while other players would ignore them completely.

Filler weapons could simply require 10k standing gained per week and then they are unlocked and purchasable for regular credits. That means week one you gain 10k rep and get access to whatever weapons are in that weeks rotation, week two you gain another 10k and get access to that weeks rotational weapons. Or they could just make them free after you've gained enough standing for the week.