Game is too easy and caters to noobs

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

9 hours ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

You just joking, right?

Of course not.

I would never joke or make light of the lack of logic and critical thinking on these forums.  Why, just the thought of such blatant sarcasm would be downright scandalous!  Shameful even!

What kind of troll do you think I am??

[SenorClipClop]

On 2019-05-07 at 6:23 PM, sleepychewbacca said:

The challenge is there. We can find it.

You're hitting the nail on the head here, and it kinda ties in with what creates such an issue surrounding "endgame" talks. It's really difficult to deliver a game mode that is actually difficult, when we as players have so much power at our disposal. For every challenging game mode that's been thrown at us (Sorties, Arbitrations), there are at least a couple loadout options we can use to make that challenge trivial -- usually invisibility, an AoE, a Hekton of DR, or a Stasis Limbo. To find challeng in this game, we need to make it for ourselves by not using the things that make the game easy. And that makes sense when you look at the variety of play preferences we have. Some players want to hold their success up with reflexes and skill, while some like the lazy power of pressing a couple buttons to wipe a high-level map.

The only way I think DE could throw actually difficult content at us would be to give us missions with incredibly restrictive rules. "Complete this Lvl 80 Excavation mission, using only Garuda and a Bow", for example. I'd certainly be interested, but I suspect this kind of mode would be ill received by oldies and newbies alike.

[sleepychewbacca]

1 minute ago, SenorClipClop said:

You're hitting the nail on the head here, and it kinda ties in with what creates such an issue surrounding "endgame" talks. It's really difficult to deliver a game mode that is actually difficult, when we as players have so much power at our disposal. For every challenging game mode that's been thrown at us (Sorties, Arbitrations), there are at least a couple loadout options we can use to make that challenge trivial -- usually invisibility, an AoE, a Hekton of DR, or a Stasis Limbo. To find challeng in this game, we need to make it for ourselves by not using the things that make the game easy. And that makes sense when you look at the variety of play preferences we have. Some players want to hold their success up with reflexes and skill, while some like the lazy power of pressing a couple buttons to wipe a high-level map.

The only way I think DE could throw actually difficult content at us would be to give us missions with incredibly restrictive rules. "Complete this Lvl 80 Excavation mission, using only Garuda and a Bow", for example. I'd certainly be interested, but I suspect this kind of mode would be ill received by oldies and newbies alike.

It's challenging cause we've hit a point where a majority of players are fairly strong, game wise, but the enemies have not kept up. 

An interesting suggestion I saw was a 'Nullifier Lite' type of enemy. Something like Nox in design, but it is not affected by Warframe powers, like a shield mob immune to Mesa's 4th, etc. Something that makes us stop spamming abilities/immune to abilities, get in close, and back to abilities.  

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

Of course not.

I would never joke or make light of the lack of logic and critical thinking on these forums.  Why, just the thought of such blatant sarcasm would be downright scandalous!  Shameful even!

What kind of troll do you think I am??

A good one kek.

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

7 hours ago, Kimimoto said:

This game HAD that challenge fix, this was the game for that. It was taken away from us, and we want it back. Saying go play another game for that challenge is saying "leave the game, the challenge ain't coming back". You can try saying it in softer words, but you can't fool me.

So you're just blatanly against playing other games? 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

19 hours ago, Lutesque said:

LoL... this is what I keep trying to tell them... I feel they know this already but they want what they want so much that it overrides these two conflicting issues. 

Its not just the players that need to admit. The devs also need to keep pushing things forward.... they're going to lose interest if they don't give players more power.... hence why we have so much Run Away Momentum in terms of Balance. 

Yeah it would get the balance back under control but it would still be boring.

I feel like its there already....

True.... but the level of frustration of feeling like you're not dealing enough damage and dying in one hit is definitely a problem right now when you don l't have all the best equipment. This is definitely going to lose Players because just because its possible to clear the star chart with the Hek doesn't mean people are going to keep having fun as the damage starts to fall off. 

I mean... you can.... but you'l almost certainly be punished for it. Unless you have a damn good Riven and arcanes to compensate for your Choices....

 

I dunno, I disagree.

I use almost -0- rivens, and I do just fine in -every- bit of content I play.  I actually hardly even use Arcanes yet.  

I think players need to decide, they either want to have a horde shooter that allows them to easily, and in very entertaining fashion, mow down entire armies with relative ease...OR they want to be ducking and dodging in a desperate effort to stay alive when facing incredibly powerful enemies.

Thing is, Lore-wise, us becoming OP is sort of accurate.  Us mowing down hordes is exactly what stories would suggest.  It's like playing a Batman game..you'd expect thugs to be little to no match, provided you've put the time into improving/mastering your combat skills and such.

[Zanchak]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

I dunno, I disagree.

I use almost -0- rivens, and I do just fine in -every- bit of content I play.  I actually hardly even use Arcanes yet.  

I think players need to decide, they either want to have a horde shooter that allows them to easily, and in very entertaining fashion, mow down entire armies with relative ease...OR they want to be ducking and dodging in a desperate effort to stay alive when facing incredibly powerful enemies.

Thing is, Lore-wise, us becoming OP is sort of accurate.  Us mowing down hordes is exactly what stories would suggest.  It's like playing a Batman game..you'd expect thugs to be little to no match, provided you've put the time into improving/mastering your combat skills and such.

This. All of this.

[DerGreif2]

On 2019-05-07 at 9:41 PM, Aldain said:

Because vets literally obliterate any and all content directed at them

Because nothing is hard. That's the reason. Vets need a really hard mode because we have almost everything. Not a mode like Arbitration... if a normal player can blow it away it's not a mode for vets. Simple as that.

[DerGreif2]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

I dunno, I disagree.

I use almost -0- rivens, and I do just fine in -every- bit of content I play.  I actually hardly even use Arcanes yet.  

I think players need to decide, they either want to have a horde shooter that allows them to easily, and in very entertaining fashion, mow down entire armies with relative ease...OR they want to be ducking and dodging in a desperate effort to stay alive when facing incredibly powerful enemies.

Thing is, Lore-wise, us becoming OP is sort of accurate.  Us mowing down hordes is exactly what stories would suggest.  It's like playing a Batman game..you'd expect thugs to be little to no match, provided you've put the time into improving/mastering your combat skills and such.

If you pick a grineer from Saturn and one from the Kuva fortress and you can kill both of them with almost the same effort there is a problem. Other horde modes will get harder for more loot and better weapons untill to a point where you cant progress and have to farm again. In Warframe you can rush the hole game with a unpotatoed half modded Hek. And that's the problem. Horde does not equals ez mode. Go to Diablo 3 pick one torment level of your coice and look how you get destroyed because you dont have the equipment. The hole game is running in easy and we cant change that because we have no difficulty slider. A game needs challenge. And Warframe needs it pretty badly.

People that want could still play on ez but please let the players decide and dont say "the game is fine" because you think all horde games should be run on autoplay.

Edited May 9, 2019 by DerGreif2

[Aldain]

14 minutes ago, DerGreif2 said:

Because nothing is hard.

Its a feedback loop, nothing is hard so vets need something hard but because vets can already nuke the hard content within days with no effort because they have every tool in the game, which then leads to nothing hard in the game and the cycle repeats ad nauseaum.

Until vets can't smash numbers and cheese into content and then complain it isn't hard there cannot be hard content like how people would want.

[DerGreif2]

On 2019-05-07 at 3:39 PM, Gabbynaru said:

How about we just let the game be a power fantasy, as it is meant to be, and just throw in a sign saying "Dark Souls this way" for all the people who complain about difficulty.

So the typical "Warframe is fine" answer. How about fixing rewards, scaling and enemy AI?

I don't know... theis thread seems to be full of Fanboys who want to go around Warframe and want no challenge at all. Can people who want challenge please get one without removing all things you have earned throughout the game? Jesus why do this community have to try push ideas back that would extremely help warframe. Vets have nothing to do: give them something. Enemies are to ez? Give them a level slider (and fix the scaling).

God forbid someone said something against DE. I read here somewhere that 35 is indeed high level... please stop. Vets relly enjoyed Fortuna level 4 alerts. If they would add that to any gamemode and increase the loot for each level is not hurting anyone. Also dont be anti loot in a looter shooter. The rewards are a joke. When you reached Saturn you can also do the last planet with that setup. Again: fixing scaling would fix a lot.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

11 hours ago, sleepychewbacca said:

It's challenging cause we've hit a point where a majority of players are fairly strong, game wise, but the enemies have not kept up. 

An interesting suggestion I saw was a 'Nullifier Lite' type of enemy. Something like Nox in design, but it is not affected by Warframe powers, like a shield mob immune to Mesa's 4th, etc. Something that makes us stop spamming abilities/immune to abilities, get in close, and back to abilities.  

Something like Nox (tanky) and not affected by Warframe powers?  If only there were something like that, it'd really stand out, I suppose... A WOLF among sheep, some might say.

I'm sure the forums would never rant about that...nope.

(note: I for one actually enjoy fighting Wolf, and welcome tanky enemies that I can't/don't just cheese.  I don't think LEVELS are the way to go, since we have infinite scaling with certain weapons and frames, but I DO believe enemy TYPES such as Wolf are a good direction to go in.)

[Psykhe27]

1 minute ago, DerGreif2 said:

So the typical "Warframe is fine" answer. How about fixing rewards, scaling and enemy AI?

I don't know... theis thread seems to be full of Fanboys who want to go around Warframe and want no challenge at all. Can people who want challenge please get one without removing all things you have earned throughout the game? Jesus why do this community have to try push ideas back that would extremely help warframe. Vets have nothing to do: give them something. Enemies are to ez? Give them a level slider (and fix the scaling).

God forbid someone said something against DE. I read here somewhere that 35 is indeed high level... please stop. Vets relly enjoyed Fortuna level 4 alerts. If they would add that to any gamemode and increase the loot for each level is not hurting anyone. Also dont be anti loot in a looter shooter. The rewards are a joke. When you reached Saturn you can also do the last planet with that setup. Again: fixing scaling would fix a lot.

Yep.

[DerGreif2]

22 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Its a feedback loop, nothing is hard so vets need something hard but because vets can already nuke the hard content within days with no effort because they have every tool in the game, which then leads to nothing hard in the game and the cycle repeats ad nauseaum.

Until vets can't smash numbers and cheese into content and then complain it isn't hard there cannot be hard content like how people would want.

How about... maybe nerfing some Frames? Oh God now I have hit a nerf and right there I see the "deepuip mods" and "use keys" guys. Warframes are to strong and we suffer from powerkreep. I understand power fantasy but if a Saryn or Mesa can nuke the map before you even press a button there is something wrong. DE needs to start balancing things. But I think I ho now because this thread is full of "Its fine you just xxxx" people.

[Aldain]

9 minutes ago, DerGreif2 said:

Warframes are to strong and we suffer from powerkreep.

I mainly play less OP frames, things more in the middle of the road like Excalibur and Baruuk where you can't press 1 key and wipe a tileset so I'm not entirely aware of how bonkers some frame are. (except for things like Frost who can Snow Globe every 4 seconds and block level 1000 gunfire)

I think the powercreep (both enemies and players) is out of control and that kinda does lead back to my previous statement about how hard content is stuck in a catch 22 situation for DE.

It could be possible to have some of the Frames retain some of their power while also making enemies not just ignore abilities, maybe something like flat "Ability Only" DR on certain enemies who more rely on gunfire and melee to defeat, and the inverse can be a design method as well with enemies that take less from gunfire but take more from abilities.

Enemy design is up there with powercreep when it comes to the game lacking difficulty as well, since things like the Wolf are only piles of ability immune numbers.

Overall I think asking for hard content is like putting a cart before a horse right now, or maybe more like a tree sapling before a baby horse...

Edited May 9, 2019 by Aldain

[DerGreif2]

3 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I mainly play less OP frames, things more in the middle of the road like Excalibur and Baruuk where you can't press 1 key and wipe a tileset so I'm not entirely aware of how bonkers some frame are. (except for things like Frost who can Snow Globe every 4 seconds and block level 1000 gunfire)

I think the powercreep (both enemies and players) is out of control and that kinda does lead back to my previous statement about how hard content is stuck in a catch 22 situation for DE.

It could be possible to have some of the Frames retain some of their power while also making enemies not just ignore abilities, maybe something like flat "Ability Only" DR on certain enemies who more rely on gunfire and melee to defeat, and the inverse can be a design method as well with enemies that take less from gunfire but take more from abilities.

Enemy design is up there with powercreep when it comes to the game lacking difficulty as well, since things like the Wolf are only piles of ability immune numbers.

Overall I think asking for hard content is like putting a cart before a horse right now, or maybe more like a tree sapling before a baby horse...

Agree completely. I would also mark excal OP with his 4 but that aside I also try to play non meta frames. But because the scaling is out of control they just die the hole time if you not extract after 20 min while the other obliterate even after 3 hours...

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

18 hours ago, George_PPS said:

MR27 here with good builds and loadouts for all missions. 

I found current balance of enemies levels proper and enjoyable. If the hardest contents are designed for only top players’ meta gears, 99% won’t be enjoying the game. It actually feels good for me to play with any players and help each others out. And if I want more challenging contents, I stay longer in missions or find less experienced players to do harder missions.

 

I agree.  Amazing, though, how so many "vets" here won't quote YOUR reply.  They just keep calling people who agree with you "White Knights", and disregarding legitimate opinions that counter their own.

45 minutes ago, Zanchak said:

This. All of this.

Glad someone understood my ramblings, lol.   Seriously, all I've seen people type is a combination of "Don't take our power away!" and "Give us more challenge!"   Those two don't resolve in any way this community would accept.

45 minutes ago, DerGreif2 said:

Because nothing is hard. That's the reason. Vets need a really hard mode because we have almost everything. Not a mode like Arbitration... if a normal player can blow it away it's not a mode for vets. Simple as that.

Plenty is hard...you just complain when legit difficult missions are made until they're nerfed into oblivion and then complain about it being too easy!

Seriously, 1. Stop with this "vet" crap. Players are players.   2. If you want difficulty, DEFINE "difficult".  You can't make a request for an undefined change and expect anything to come of it.  That's like telling your waiter at a restaurant: "BRING ME FOOD!" but then complaining about EVERYTHING they bring. "No, I didn't want THAT!"   

Friggin' spell it out.

28 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Its a feedback loop, nothing is hard so vets need something hard but because vets can already nuke the hard content within days with no effort because they have every tool in the game, which then leads to nothing hard in the game and the cycle repeats ad nauseaum.

Until vets can't smash numbers and cheese into content and then complain it isn't hard there cannot be hard content like how people would want.

Not just that...When we DO get targets that don't get insta-gibbed, these same people complain until it's nerfed!  Wolf? "Too much hp!"  PT? "Too much Knockdown spam!" Arbitrations (whether or not people admit to it, this was a complaint here on the forums): "No fun dying without revives!"

They say they want challenge but they don't want their power to be challenged at ALL.  Hell, it's one of the big reasons they won't hop into Conclave! I mean, the idea of not having all their OP gear there must seem like heresy! 😛

6 minutes ago, DerGreif2 said:

So the typical "Warframe is fine" answer. How about fixing rewards, scaling and enemy AI?

I don't know... theis thread seems to be full of Fanboys who want to go around Warframe and want no challenge at all. Can people who want challenge please get one without removing all things you have earned throughout the game? Jesus why do this community have to try push ideas back that would extremely help warframe. Vets have nothing to do: give them something. Enemies are to ez? Give them a level slider (and fix the scaling).

God forbid someone said something against DE. I read here somewhere that 35 is indeed high level... please stop. Vets relly enjoyed Fortuna level 4 alerts. If they would add that to any gamemode and increase the loot for each level is not hurting anyone. Also dont be anti loot in a looter shooter. The rewards are a joke. When you reached Saturn you can also do the last planet with that setup. Again: fixing scaling would fix a lot.

 So the typical "Fix rewards/scaling/AI" answer.

I don't know,  this thread seems to be full of anti-DE haters and trolls who want to go around just raising hell for no reason other than to complain and get attention. 

Seriously, we've already gone into a number of reasons "sliders" don't work in WF.   Enemies can also level to 1000+ and still be insta-killed, so level scaling is obviously no more of a "challenge" than any of your other complaints.

God forbid someone say something in support of DE. I read here somewhere that some players, including "vets", actually enjoy current levels....     So please stop acting like you own the rights on having opinions.  

We don't need to "increase the loot".  Current big bads already drop almost ALL the loot from the entire map (Thumpers, PT, etc) so I don't see how they're being "anti loot".  And any rewards that offer MORE power would only make the issue you complain about worse.

Offer real feedback, not insults. We don't need more arguing, we need actual THINKING. 

Bickering like children is not becoming of anyone in this community.  We used to be better than that.

You wanna prove you're a "vet"?  ACT like you've been around longer.  BE an example, instead of just a bully.  Show us what a Tenno is supposed to be.  Right now, all I'm seeing is whining and childishness.

[Aldain]

2 minutes ago, DerGreif2 said:

I would also mark excal OP with his 4

It strong, there's no argument there, but you have to move and unlike say Valkyr it doesn't come with invincibility and a fair portion of its power is behind a mod slot for Chromatic Blade (or so I hear, haven't spent time/plat to get it, really should one of these days ) so it is more reliant on who's using it and how they are using it than just plain using it.

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

I dunno, I disagree.

I use almost -0- rivens, and I do just fine in -every- bit of content I play.  I actually hardly even use Arcanes yet.  

I don't know what content you play or what you're using.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

I think players need to decide, they either want to have a horde shooter that allows them to easily, and in very entertaining fashion, mow down entire armies with relative ease...OR they want to be ducking and dodging in a desperate effort to stay alive when facing incredibly powerful enemies

I think the gane just needs to be fun.... 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Thing is, Lore-wise, us becoming OP is sort of accurate.  Us mowing down hordes is exactly what stories would suggest.  It's like playing a Batman game..you'd expect thugs to be little to no match, provided you've put the time into improving/mastering your combat skills and such

Screw lore... I just want to enjoy Myself.... I don't think that's too much to ask.... 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 minute ago, Lutesque said:

I don't know what content you play or what you're using.

I think the gane just needs to be fun.... 

Screw lore... I just want to enjoy Myself.... I don't think that's too much to ask.... 

1. Whatever equipment I feel like at the time.
2. I think the game IS fun.  Opinions are like Ammo Drums... everyone's got a million of 'em.
3. I personally love lore. One of my favorite things about the game.. .and many of us ARE enjoying ourselves.  If you're not, perhaps you don't enjoy the game as much as you'd like to admit (which is fine) and should consider alternatives?

Standing in a pizzeria and demanding hamburgers to satisfy me is fruitless.  Better to just leave and find a place that sells hamburgers.  In other words, stop demanding the game change to suit you when there are already games that suit you.  You're clearly on the wrong game for what you want.

[Lutesque]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

1. Whatever equipment I feel like at the time

Again.... still don't know what that is.... 

11 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

2. I think the game IS fun.  Opinions are like Ammo Drums... everyone's got a million of 'em

Ammo Drum is useless....  I think The Game is Grindy.... infact... it is.... Thats not fun and thats not an oppinion.

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

3. I personally love lore. One of my favorite things about the game.. .and many of us ARE enjoying ourselves.  If you're not, perhaps you don't enjoy the game as much as you'd like to admit (which is fine) and should consider alternatives?

Then you've chosen the Wrong Game.... ofvourse if you are oblivioud to all the Thematic Inconsistencies then this isn't an issue.

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Standing in a pizzeria and demanding hamburgers to satisfy me is fruitless.  Better to just leave and find a place that sells hamburgers.  In other words, stop demanding the game change to suit you when there are already games that suit you.  You're clearly on the wrong game for what you want.

Im sorry..... im standing in a Video Game demanding it to be fun.... ig I was standing in my office then your analogy would be apt.... as it is right now its just wrong. 

 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

Just now, Lutesque said:

Again.... still don't know what that is.... 

Ammo Drum is useless....  I think The Game is Grindy.... infact... it is.... Thats not fun and thats not an oppinion.

Then you've chosen the Wrong Game.... ofvourse if you are oblivioud to all the Thematic Inconsistencies then this isn't an issue.

Im sorry..... im standing in a Video Game demanding it to be fun.... ig I was standing in my office then your analogy would be apt.... as it is right now its just wrong. 

 

1. The equipment changes with the day/mission... I'm not going to go down a list of literally all the equipment I own.  In fact, if you like...go ahead and look over my profile.
2. I think you missed the joke....
3. I literally said I enjoy the game....So why are you trying to tell me I don't?
4. That is literally the problem with your "complaint".  You're making demands without direction.  You're demanding the game change, but that's not only absurd, it's insulting to the artists who design the game.

If I don't like Van Gogh paintings, I don't demand they paint something new...I just visit a different gallery...or heck, paint something myself.  DE isn't "wrong" for not pleasing your every whim.  They make their game, they offer to -everyone-, for free,...either take it or leave it.  Simple as that.

Now, if you have actual FEEDBACK, feel free to speak up.

[Lutesque]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

1. The equipment changes with the day/mission... I'm not going to go down a list of literally all the equipment I own.  In fact, if you like...go ahead and look over my profile.

Im way too lazy for that. 

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

2. I think you missed the joke....

And whos fault is that ? Mine ? No I have perfectly intact sense of humor.... if I missed the joke that means you didn't make it properly. 

10 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

3. I literally said I enjoy the game....So why are you trying to tell me I don't?

No such thing happened. (Awaiting a quote of you think I did) 

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

4. That is literally the problem with your "complaint".  You're making demands without direction.  You're demanding the game change, but that's not only absurd, it's insulting to the artists who design the game.

My demand is on point....alot of the changes and additions didn't coming from a place of makibg them more fun.... as soon as they get that then we can go over specifics of what would or wouldn't be fun. Simple. 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

20 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Im way too lazy for that. 

And whos fault is that ? Mine ? No I have perfectly intact sense of humor.... if I missed the joke that means you didn't make it properly. 

No such thing happened. (Awaiting a quote of you think I did) 

My demand is on point....alot of the changes and additions didn't coming from a place of makibg them more fun.... as soon as they get that then we can go over specifics of what would or wouldn't be fun. Simple. 

You being lazy is your problem, noone else's.

Your lack of comprehension skills is your problem, noone else's.

I'm not wasting more time on quotes. I've nothing to prove to you or anyone else. Who the hell do you think you are that I or anyone else "owes" you explanations or anything?

"Fun" is subjective. Different for everyone. Some people enjoy things that others find boring. Thing is, your idea of "fun" is no more "correct" than anyone else's, so get off the high horse.

[Gabbynaru]

2 hours ago, DerGreif2 said:

So the typical "Warframe is fine" answer.

Gameplay wise, yeah, it is. I came here expecting a power fantasy, I get a power fantasy. I didn't come here expecting Dark Souls, and I ain't getting Dark Souls. So, for all intents and purposes, it's perfectly fine. Sounds to me like you're just looking for a different game. I'm not, I'm just here to enjoy being a god, and that's what the game's providing. Hard concept to grasp, I know, enjoying a game for what it is rather than wishing it was something else.