No more rivens, no more game

[Mudfam]

Some people will probably react poorly to this, but the truth is that for myself and many other players the only thing to keep us engaged is gradually expanding our riven collection. In this game you collect everything and pimp it out, and for weapons that includes a nice riven. Truth is, there isn't anything else to do.

You do sorties, you farm kuva and generally keep playing to get those rivens. Yes, it could be better, but let's say so far so good. But it all falls apart, why? Because we have pointless and pathetically low limit on riven capacity, even after having sunk 2'250 plat on slots.

Between primaries, secondaries, melee, archguns and sentinels we have a massive amount of weapons in this game, and for some of your absolute favourites you probably want 2 or 3 rivens. But a measly 90 slots is all we get.

No more rivens, no more sorties, no more kuva, no more anything, no more game. That's it. Game Over.

As someone who is involved in software development, I can say that this being a technical limitation is a very poor excuse. If the limitation is real then it should be solved through better design, and I'll gladly cover the cost of the $40 USB thumb drive that is more than sufficient to store thousands of rivens across millions of accounts. You don't have to look far to see games storing more complex item data without silly limits, there is no problem here that isn't trivially overcome.
 

I'd keep paying for more slots, but the current limit is much too low. Why is there a limit at all? No other slot or inventory capacity is limited. I do not want to delete any of my rivens. I cannot continue playing without room for more rivens. I literally can't even initiate sortie missions anymore and the game is constantly nagging me to delete one of my precious rivens. I want to continue playing Warframe, but I can't.

[Soldier1312]

Meanwhile I'm there sitting with few rivens that I can't sell because I find the riven system complete garbage.

But I do agree that the limit is kinda... uh, to put it simple pointless. As you've said it's reason for people to play and locking the amount of slots is making people quit, because they are completely done. It's like killing your own population just for the sake of it.

[Tain_OSkoom]

That feeling when you get an evergreen riven pack when you're already at 89 rivens and are reluctant to part with the ones you had.

"Here's three more rivens and three zero slots for them! You are hereby banned from sorties and shall be nagged every time you load into the orbiter until you offload these on some hapless clanmate!"

[Krakovimon]

Even tho, "moar is always better" DE already stated that for now it was the max slot they'd go. I understand that it would be cool to have a Riven for every weapons in the game. But you still can have 1/5 (no access to a PC)  of the weapon with a Riven if you manage well your rivens. That's enough imo to satisfy most players. 

My main issue with the whole "infinite rivens slot" is the sniping of rivens from traders will be even easier and it will make the whole Riven market even more of an hellhole.

I do hope it ever goes up, but I wont push for it.

[peterc3]

16 minutes ago, Mudfam said:

I want to continue playing Warframe, but I can't.

You can. You just don't want to and want to blame someone else. Just don't play a game you don't want to and haven't wanted to for a while, if the only thing you're doing is collecting mods.

17 minutes ago, Mudfam said:

As someone who is involved in software development, I can say that this being a technical limitation is a very poor excuse. If the limitation is real then it should be solved through better design, and I'll gladly cover the cost of the $40 USB thumb drive that is more than sufficient to store thousands of rivens across millions of accounts. You don't have to look far to see games storing more complex item data without silly limits, there is no problem here that isn't trivially overcome.

As someone else that is involved with software development, I would never even dream of pretending to know someone else's resources and requirements. Now transport that thumb drive of data to all the players that are playing or could play, between every session of the game that is created.

Why not just stop playing the game?

[Xolgys]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb Mudfam:

[...]

i fully agree, BUT if ppl were to keep EVERY riven, even the biggest endo-fodder of endo-fodders then i can see it really really costing a lot of dataspace. i do agree, the limit needs to be higher but infinitely is potentially an issue considering many people play the game.

[Xzorn]

The Riven cap is most likely as much a game economic choice than anything else. Least that's my take.

Kuva is what I call an "Enduring Resource" by that I mean you always want it and would never shrug it off if you got it. It gets used in a circulating economy revolving around progression and the player economy through the main currency which is plat. Ducats are another lesser example and technically Endo.

The game needs more of these types of items / currencies / resources instead of the one-and-done types.

Focus was supposed to be a non-itemized version of this but well... we know how that's turned out so far. It stops which isn't ideal.

[000l000]

Farming kuva for the sake of farming Kuva isn't much relevant. Many people play the game for fun mostly too and i find this way more relevant than collecting rivens, especially when you're not doing anything else - why do you even need that many rivens if you're only farming kuva all day long ?

My two cent is that many players should play another game from time to time when things are going too repetitive in WF. But that's common sense at this point, people must be masochist or anything i guess.

[Spectre-8]

2 hours ago, Mudfam said:

myself and many other players

The under 10 others that upvoted this , what about you and them is so important ?

[DeadVoid118]

2 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Just don't play a game you don't want to and haven't wanted to for a while, if the only thing you're doing is collecting mods.

This isn't an argument that works here. Suggestions and feedback are attempts to make things better. This suggestion is in the feedback section. "Don't play the game" isn't constructive. It's not acknowledging the point behind the post. The point is to (attempt to) make the game better.

2 hours ago, peterc3 said:

As someone else that is involved with software development, I would never even dream of pretending to know someone else's resources and requirements. Now transport that thumb drive of data to all the players that are playing or could play, between every session of the game that is created.

I would definitely dream. In fact, it's rather easy to do. Rivens inevitably come down to a few sets of numbers that should not be that hard to transfer across the internet and load into a computer. Plenty of systems and games are far more complex and do it just as well. Graphics are far more demanding (go enter a relay and look at all the shadow tenno). Rivens are not even 3D (or shouldn't be, unless you've horribly coded something). They should not be that demanding.

Also, if you're transporting Riven data for every match, you're doing it wrong. You don't need to transport mod information for matches, just the numbers on the gun (unless a certain mod has a unique interaction, like making arrows explosive, but that would just be a simple Boolean).

2 hours ago, Xydeth said:

i fully agree, BUT if ppl were to keep EVERY riven, even the biggest endo-fodder of endo-fodders then i can see it really really costing a lot of dataspace. i do agree, the limit needs to be higher but infinitely is potentially an issue considering many people play the game.

Well, data is stupidly cheap. All the rivens in Warframe probably don't amount to more than a few terabytes (uncompressed, mind you) at most, if even that.

[Xolgys]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Keylan118:

Well, data is stupidly cheap. All the rivens in Warframe probably don't amount to more than a few terabytes (uncompressed, mind you) at most, if even that.

i would assume the same but i do not have insight on DE's tech and im no expert anyway though i know a fair bit but still not enough to really judge, so i wont.

there is the point that DE basically misses out on plat/money spent on slots and people collecting more rivens so i guess they have a reason to limit riven slots despite that.

[Test-995]

More riven caps?

Yes.

[Voltage]

I agree that the limit on slots is low, however I do believe there should still be a cap. My major issue with the Riven system has nothing to do with getting a Riven, the cap, or the rolling mechanic, it is the entire Kuva system. Farming Kuva is a chore. Plain and simple. No scaling in the Fortress, the cost of rolling does not equate to the amount you get. The system forces you to buy a booster, eh...

I do have to say though that I agree with this post. Caps on Riven Mods do increase the quality of the collection, so I still am in favor of a cap, but the cap should be a percentage of available items with Riven Mods enabled and it should scale passively. Everytime we get 100 new weapons, we should have atleast 40 Riven slots possible for purchase or something.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Voltage

[Vox_Preliator]

Yeah, I agree, No More Rivens.  Rivens are terrible and have harmed the game irreversibly, and have caused me to just not usually bother anymore with Sorties that have a nearly 40% chance to give me something completely worthless.  They are a blight on the game and the only thing keeping them from being 100% a P2W slot machine is the lack of direct monetary value.  They've made trading suck far, far more than it ever had before, and reduced 85% of build advice to "just get a riven lol" instead of actual building. It's, frankly, disgusting that they were even implemented, and are the antithesis to everything I love about Warframe.

...Oh, wait, this is about the cap being too low.

No.  You don't need more than 90, you aren't supposed to have more than 90, and I seriously doubt you use more than 90.  Get rid of some of the ones you don't want.  If you find you want all of them, then learn to actually curate your collection and sell some off.

And before anyone goes on about data storage, it's already been established that the cost of storage is a relatively minor concern next to the cost of data transfer.

Edited June 12, 2019 by Vox_Preliator

[Loswaith]

90 is more than enough.  I suspect very few people even use 90 different weapons or weapon builds on a regular basis that would require more than the 90 riven.

Though an option could be instead to let players essentially permanently burn a riven into a weapon.  Thus permanently affixing the Riven to the weapon. This would permanently take up a weapon mod slot in the process, while preventing further riven being used on that specific weapon (as if you equipped it now), this would then free up a slot in the riven pool for more to be gained.

The data in this case would then move onto the weapon data itself (where colours and mods on it are stored), and not be required as part of the mod list.

Edited June 12, 2019 by Loswaith

[Shalath]

Aside from the fact that rivens use up far more database space than regular mods as DE have said there needs to be a cap. Raise it to 100 and players will immediately ask for 200 because completionists want to collect all of them. No matter what DE set the limit to it will never be enough. Make it unlimited and the game database will soon be 99% rivens.

[Test-995]

44 minutes ago, Shalath said:

Aside from the fact that rivens use up far more database space than regular mods as DE have said there needs to be a cap. Raise it to 100 and players will immediately ask for 200 because completionists want to collect all of them. No matter what DE set the limit to it will never be enough. Make it unlimited and the game database will soon be 99% rivens.

I'd ask for 200 from the start, only 10 doesn't really helps.

[Steel_Rook]

I thought you were going to propose removing Rivens from the game so that some amount of balance can be attempted. Rather disappointed to find the opposite, but oh well.

[Hobie-wan]

7 hours ago, Loswaith said:

Though an option could be instead to let players essentially permanently burn a riven into a weapon.  Thus permanently affixing the Riven to the weapon. This would permanently take up a weapon mod slot in the process, while preventing further riven being used on that specific weapon (as if you equipped it now), this would then free up a slot in the riven pool for more to be gained.

The data in this case would then move onto the weapon data itself (where colours and mods on it are stored), and not be required as part of the mod list.

This would change nothing about the riven data storage and transmission.

Painting the instructions on the side of a weapon versus a sticky note with said instructions makes no change to the fact that the instructions must be read and understood.

[Loswaith]

16 hours ago, Hobie-wan said:

This would change nothing about the riven data storage and transmission.

Painting the instructions on the side of a weapon versus a sticky note with said instructions makes no change to the fact that the instructions must be read and understood.

Actually it makes a crap load of difference (compared to individual riven mods).  Embedded it is a few extra variables (that the riven uses anyway) added to an existing object (that is already data that is paid for via weapon slots). 
However as a separate mod an entire new object needs to be created for the riven.  While new objects add more overheads than a few additional variables do within an existing object. 

While at worst it wont change the data use if they keep the riven as a separate linked object, if they are clever however they can reduce the data and access overheads.

This then makes riven and weapon slots even more desirable to players, even to keep weapons you may have an upgrade to (having invested a riven into it).  As it is now there is simply no reason (short of for a collection) to keep a weapon (or multiples of the same weapon) with an upgraded version (prime, vandal, wraith, etc) of it.

At the end of the day it means DE gets paid for more riven data, but also keeps the limit of 90 tradeable options in a players pocket.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Loswaith

[Mudfam]

21 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

I thought you were going to propose removing Rivens from the game so that some amount of balance can be attempted. Rather disappointed to find the opposite, but oh well.

I do know what you mean, but I think the game has far more serious issues with balance than rivens. You don't need rivens to break everything and anything in the game, and experience mostly content that is so easy that you barely need to play and are never in any danger of failure, with a touch of broken armour scaling that suddenly invalidates 90% of what's available to you, bosses that are just invincible most of the time, having your abilities simply disabled so that you break things in a different way...

I basically have all my fun running kuva floods and (some) sorties while deliberately avoiding warframes that are far more overpowered than any riven could ever be. Or at least I did until deleting some of the progress I made so far as prerequisite for the 200th time became too much for me.

The game is what it is, I'm not expecting any major changes, and that includes rivens. They are just another long term avenue for pointless advancement and collecting things. I still enjoy the core gameplay, I just need any kind of goal as an excuse to experience it.

[(XBOX)dude1286]

Rivens are the closest thing in Warframe to sustainable rewards and DE tells players not to want them due to disposition changes that don't take usage because a riven is on the weapon into consideration and the low capacity cap. I made it a goal to eventually forma and potato all the things back when the void was still relevent, and finally completed that goal before Fortuna came out. Since I made that goal for myself, Rivens were added and Prime farming was changed from endurance runs to speed runs. I wouldn't mind doing the same thing with the Rivens as I did with the Forma, but not only does DE not provide an avenue with worthwhile rewards to use said gear in, they actively deter players from using the Riven system as such due to making Rivens less effective over time for using them and giving us a limit on all the weapons we can get Rivens for while adding entire categories that didn't need them (sentinals, melee and arch guns). It is making me wish I never spent the time and money on all the Forma and Potatos I've used over the years.

[BubblePoof]

Bruh just make more accounts and put your rivens there

[(XBOX)dude1286]

3 minutes ago, BubblePoof said:

Bruh just make more accounts and put your rivens there

Officially, that is against the Terms of Service. You can't have multiple accounts help each other.

[Hobie-wan]

8 hours ago, Loswaith said:

Actually it makes a crap load of difference (compared to individual riven mods).  Embedded it is a few extra variables (that the riven uses anyway) added to an existing object (that is already data that is paid for via weapon slots).

The riven stats are still stored for each and every riven. It doesn't matter if it's a separate mod or if it's directly stuck on the weapon. The data is still the same and still has the same storage and transmission requirements. Where is is only changes what data table it's stored in. Thus my analogy whether it's painted on the side of a gun or on a post it that is stuck on the gun or could be pulled off and stuck in a binder for later use. It is still a chunk of data with the item it fits and a stack of variables and the names that match them and then the numbers for each one.