Mirage is just a bad Chroma

[S.Dust]

Mirage is a frame that people will always say can do alot of damage she has four clones omg but really she is just a bad frame. She has a total of one good ability and that is her first ability, the extra damage is nice. Her third ability would make her even better if we had actual control over the ability, the mechanic of being control by light levels is a horrible one due to the fact certain areas look light but apparently are dark and vise versa, it takes control out of player hands and just makes for a poorly thought out ability. If you wanna make the argument that it wouldn't be right to allow her control over the buff just look at chroma who gets a massive damage buff and armor buff and try and argue.

Mirage needs to be taken back to the drawing board because as is she just isn't a good frame, she doesn't do anything well, she cant take a hit, she cant consistently deal her highest damage, and she cant even really CC all that well.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

I'd disagree.  Both are weapon platforms but I don't think Chroma was ever meant to be one.  Or differently put, I think he was meant to offer a lot more but he's the way he is due to terrible kit design.  Mirage on the other hand is pretty much performing as designed.  Slight of hand in itself is actually okay.  It's her ultimate that is too clunky and costly. Sure it sucks that we don't have control over her buff but what bothers me is how the lighting in the game makes no sense so the ability itself feels rng.  If they made it so the effect lingers once you leave the area and can be refreshed when entering an area again it would feel a lot better.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

Chroma is a sh*tty Warframe with two non-existent abilities and two passive, non-interacting ones; on top of having no passive. He DESPERATELY needs a rework. A no, just because he "cAn dEaL LoTS oF dAmAGe tO eiDoLOnz" doesn't mean he's a good Warframe. His current design is BAD and BLAND.

Mirage is much more than simple damage. She can increase the area in which damage is spread out, she has a great damage/defensive buff ability and her two is useful as a quick aggro/blind. Her four simply needs to scale the damage it deals (shooting at the Prism amps up beam damage, for example) and be either duration based or channeled, not both.

[lukinu_u]

Well, Mirage is actually a better Chroma with more than 2 powers.

• She has lower survivability but decent armor and huge energy pool, which allow for Quick Thinking use if you have reliable sources of energy.
• Her 95% damage reduction cap on Eclipse (reached at only +20% power strength) is close to what an full strength Umbral ice Chroma reach with his total armor, and stack with her armor.
• Her damage buff is sighly lower than Chroma but is multiplcative to total weapon damages instead of additive with damage mods. And while it's not always active, it can be triggered with a heat proc on yourself.
• Aside from the damage buff and resistance, she has a proper kit that allow great crowd control while Chroma doesn't.
• Her passive allow for better mobility, which is always wanted in Warframe.
• Her first power don't really increase damages but allow for more status to proc, which is really interesting when using Condition Overload build, rely on corrosive to strip armor or use CC status effect such as blast, impact or cold.
• She can look super badass with her syandana, Opticor and any heavy blade with a super badass set of skin made the amazing artist I am.

The only better point Chroma has here, is the fact he can have both damage and armor at the same time, which is great, but not necessary if parkour and CC are used well.
Also, I use transference a lot to avoid damages and stun surrounding enemies when incoming damages really become an issue.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

2 hours ago, S.Dust said:

 Hildryn needs to be taken back to the drawing board 

Fixed that for you.

[Maka.Bones]

you forgot to add "with shadow jutsu"

But no... i mean her 4, and her 2 need some work... but no, she's not bad by any means. I will agree that it would be nice to have more control over her 3 though. 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

1 hour ago, lukinu_u said:

Well, Mirage is actually a better Chroma with more than 2 powers.

• She has lower survivability but decent armor and huge energy pool, which allow for Quick Thinking use if you have reliable sources of energy.
• Her 95% damage reduction cap on Eclipse (reached at only +20% power strength) is close to what an full strength Umbral ice Chroma reach with his total armor, and stack with her armor.
• Her damage buff is sighly lower than Chroma but is multiplcative to total weapon damages instead of additive with damage mods. And while it's not always active, it can be triggered with a heat proc on yourself.
• Aside from the damage buff and resistance, she has a proper kit that allow great crowd control while Chroma doesn't.
• Her passive allow for better mobility, which is always wanted in Warframe.
• Her first power don't really increase damages but allow for more status to proc, which is really interesting when using Condition Overload build, rely on corrosive to strip armor or use CC status effect such as blast, impact or cold.
• She can look super badass with her syandana, Opticor and any heavy blade with a super badass set of skin made the amazing artist I am.

The only better point Chroma has here, is the fact he can have both damage and armor at the same time, which is great, but not necessary if parkour and CC are used well.
Also, I use transference a lot to avoid damages and stun surrounding enemies when incoming damages really become an issue.

It would be nice if she had better control over her light/shadow exposure though. And her disco ball, doesn't seem very effective. It has a long animation, to use as a blind

Edited June 16, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[S.Dust]

So no one here sees the fact that she gets basically one shot by anything as a problem. I have arcane guardian and adaptation on her and she still cant take any hits, she kinda just sucks to me which sucks cause she looks cool. I have tried quick thinking but that mod just sucks to play with.

As far as all the people arguing that chroma sucks cause kit and that he only have two good abilities; Most frames in the game only have two good abilities mirage still being an example of one of them, she has hall of mirrors and then she has a potentially good ability in her eclipse but its ruined by the lack of player control. Sorry to say her sleight of hand is nothing special either because it works off of the same stupid system that her eclipse works off of and because the damage is never going to be good it should always be a blind.

Edited June 16, 2019 by S.Dust

[S.Dust]

1 hour ago, lukinu_u said:

Well, Mirage is actually a better Chroma with more than 2 powers.

• She has lower survivability but decent armor and huge energy pool, which allow for Quick Thinking use if you have reliable sources of energy.
• Her 95% damage reduction cap on Eclipse (reached at only +20% power strength) is close to what an full strength Umbral ice Chroma reach with his total armor, and stack with her armor.
• Her damage buff is sighly lower than Chroma but is multiplcative to total weapon damages instead of additive with damage mods. And while it's not always active, it can be triggered with a heat proc on yourself.
• Aside from the damage buff and resistance, she has a proper kit that allow great crowd control while Chroma doesn't.
• Her passive allow for better mobility, which is always wanted in Warframe.
• Her first power don't really increase damages but allow for more status to proc, which is really interesting when using Condition Overload build, rely on corrosive to strip armor or use CC status effect such as blast, impact or cold.
• She can look super badass with her syandana, Opticor and any heavy blade with a super badass set of skin made the amazing artist I am.

The only better point Chroma has here, is the fact he can have both damage and armor at the same time, which is great, but not necessary if parkour and CC are used well.
Also, I use transference a lot to avoid damages and stun surrounding enemies when incoming damages really become an issue.

Ha if she was better she would see more use.

• Quick thinking is a horrible mod and if you aren't using arcane elevate you are still dead due to the fact mirage has nothing to regain health.
• Exactly it's not always active you have no control over it so it can't be argued for just due to the fact that you may never have it when you need it.
• There is better crowd control and in the games current state kill fast and taking hits matters more, also not gonna argue for Chromas kit i'm just gonna say Chroma has a role that he actually plays well.
• If you know how to use the movement system well enough a speed boost actually doesn't matter and in some cases is just annoying, especially with the way tiles are laid out.
• To argue your point that iff CC and parkour are used well im gonna just bring up the fact that more and more enemies are immune to CC and the fact that a dead enemy is better that a CC one. On top of that her damage buff is never being used to its highest potential outside of a boss fight since things die from any well modded weapon; When you decide to bring mirage to a boss fight she will die because CC doesn't work and parkour only does so much, as I said before you also cant rely on her 95% damage reduction because you have no control over it.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Yeah. Mirages reliance of level light sources and shadows was a bad idea and as content evolves having unreliable abilities only stands to hold a frame back. Couple that with a second ability that I’m still confident doesn’t actually do anything and a 4th ability who’s past nerfs are no longer justified when compared to some of the other 4th abilities that have come along. Mirage is definitely on her way to being the next bottom tier frame. And people need to stop defending her so D.E. can fix her.

[Xzorn]

I wouldn't say they're the same.

• Chroma's 1st and 4th abilities were dead on arrival.
• Mirage's 4th ability was nerfed to death. Her 1st was also nerfed and her 3rd ability.

Chroma has always been a one-trick frame for better or worse. Well, worse now since he's half the eHP and takes no brain to play.

Mirage on the other hand was quite good but got nerfed consistently until she had only one trick left to offer. She had decent design.

Edited June 16, 2019 by Xzorn

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

3 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Fixed that for you.

Huh? Care to elaborate? Hildryn is an amazing Warframe.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Huh? Care to elaborate? Hildryn is an amazing Warframe.

I'd prefer to hear why you think she's good. I'm honestly curious.

To me, her kit feels unfinished, especially her 4 which is just a CC to use your 1. The flight mechanic doesn't even make sense. Why would you want to CC a small area when you can CC a large area?

The hover doesn't even do anything except maybe give you an excuse to use aviator. You can't hover unless there's a solid ground over you. Might as well just jump while using balefire.

Her 3 is trash imo. You are constantly using and expending shields to cause small negligible radiation damage to enemies and give shield to teammates who, if they aren't using adaptation aren't really benefiting from them. 

Her 2 doesn't affect infested and the armor strip, even at 250 power str feels insignificant. It's ok against corpus but even then just is good ok. Feels like the equivalent of a magnetic proc at best, but w/e.

Her 1 is ok. Not every skill needs to be crit or started if the damage of high enough.

That's my opinion on her. Feel free to disagree, if like to hear why you think she's good.

[Dark_Chroma_Prime]

Both of them have their buff conditions. You are morly complaining that you can't deal with her buff condition

[KnightOwl_]

Is she fun?  Then she’s already better than chroma.

 Snoreframe.  So needs a rework.  I can’t speak for others but if DE made him interesting at the expense of “bUt EiDoLoNs” I’d buy him or farm him a second time just cause.  

Edited June 17, 2019 by OmegaDonut

[Shaburanigud]

I think if she had more control of light and shadow with her abilities, she would actually be more viable.

She's fun I'll give you that, but is very hard to build upon due to the fact that she has no control over her buffs. And the lack of indication within the game really doesn't help either.

 

If her 4 or 2 provided Light or Shadow upon her will she might actually perform better in higher levels.
She still doesn't have her 4 augment so I'm gonna bet on that.

[Teridax68]

Boiling Mirage down to "a bad Chroma" I feel is a tad reductive, but I can agree with the broad lines that both currently accomplish very similar functions (they're both steroid-based damage frames with lots of damage and durability), except Chroma is far more consistent in what he does. I agree that Eclipse in this respect is one of the main reasons behind this, because not only is the ability redundant in the face of Mirage's Hall of Mirrors (it's a DPS/survivability steroid on top of another steroid that also adds DPS and survivability), it's also heavily inconsistent, as its light-based variance is a cool concept on paper, but a capricious nightmare in practice.

To be honest, I agree that Mirage could use a more comprehensive update, as I think all of her abilities are either imperfectly implemented (her 4's fallen out of favor, and her 2's still not really functional), or simply not all that interesting to begin with (Hall of Mirrors is just a stat steroid with some cool visuals, Eclipse is also a fairly boring steroid). Her theme of light and shadow is interesting, but done better by Equinox, and its implementation based on level lighting (which even now isn't entirely consistent or intuitive) just makes for gameplay that feels more accidental than truly tactical. As such, I'd love to see her illusionist/jester theme fully realized, though in the meantime, she could likely be improved drastically by smaller changes.

Personally, I'd be interested in seeing Eclipse getting turned into a toggle, with both sides having their own advantages and disadvantages. For example:

• 3 - Eclipse: When toggled off, Mirage's damage and/or attack/reload/melee/movement speed is increased. When toggled on, Mirage turns into a shadow, becoming completely untargetable and invisible, but losing the ability to attack.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Teridax68

[lukinu_u]

Il y a 15 heures, S.Dust a dit :

Ha if she was better she would see more use.

• Quick thinking is a horrible mod and if you aren't using arcane elevate you are still dead due to the fact mirage has nothing to regain health.
• Exactly it's not always active you have no control over it so it can't be argued for just due to the fact that you may never have it when you need it.
• There is better crowd control and in the games current state kill fast and taking hits matters more, also not gonna argue for Chromas kit i'm just gonna say Chroma has a role that he actually plays well.
• If you know how to use the movement system well enough a speed boost actually doesn't matter and in some cases is just annoying, especially with the way tiles are laid out.
• To argue your point that iff CC and parkour are used well im gonna just bring up the fact that more and more enemies are immune to CC and the fact that a dead enemy is better that a CC one. On top of that her damage buff is never being used to its highest potential outside of a boss fight since things die from any well modded weapon; When you decide to bring mirage to a boss fight she will die because CC doesn't work and parkour only does so much, as I said before you also cant rely on her 95% damage reduction because you have no control over it.

Here, you're arguing against Mirage compared to everything in the game.
The point of the thread is to compare Mirage to Chroma, and everything Chroma does, she do it better exept tanking only when eclipse is on light state, but that's not an issue if you play good enough and master parkour to avoid damages.

To point out the "issues" you mentionned :

• I don't see how you need Magus Elevate ? The point of Quick Thinking is to use your energy instead of health, so you don't need health regen.
• You have control over the buff, via parkour (if you know how to use it) and with heat proc that emit light an trigger the light buff. You can't triggger the dark buff but that's not really necessary as you just have to go into transference to avoid the hit that need you to tank.
• Yes there are better crowd control, but we're talking about Mirage and Chroma, you won't say Chroma is better at this.
• More and more enemies are immunite to CC, but not to your parkour capabilities. And how you said yourself, a dead enemy is better than a CCed one, so why playing Chroma and Mirage has a better damage buff ?

The only reasons I see for people playing Chroma more than Mirage are :

• Chroma is easier to play due to the passive nature of his 2 and 3 which grant both damage and resistance buffs at the same time.
• The values of this buff listed let people think the buff is stronger (while it stack differently in a less effective way).
• Mirage (non-prime) is really ugly without a skin.
• Mirage was one of the most played warframe and got nerfed as long as a few weapons, so peoples may consider her "dead" and play something else without trying and see is the nerf are really that bad.

Also, about "if she was better she would see more use", that's not exactly true, the better thing is not always the most played because players don't necessarily know it's better.
A good example was the negative crit through Rivens. Most peoples didn't know it exist but it was stronger that most of build, my Vasto Prime was able to kill eidolons faster than Lanka/Rubico buffed with Chroma, while I was not using any, same goes for spin attack spam vs Exodia Contagion, full crit primaries vs status/crit hybrid, etc... Some people just don't do the math/testing to understand and deduce what is better, so the fact a Warframe is more or less played doesn't mean it is bad.
I personnally think Chroma need a rework more than Mirage does.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

6 minutes ago, moostar95 said:

Just don't play her. She not for you. Now take your hildryn hate elsewhere. 

Am I not entitled to my own opinion? Why does it even bother you that I don't like her?

Lol, I went as far as to even support my argument when asked and the best answer the forums can come up with is "go away hater" ?

Pathetic.

Edited June 17, 2019 by (PS4)RenovaKunumaru

[MirageKnight]

6 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Am I not entitled to my own opinion?

Yes, but last time I checked this topic is supposed to be about...Mirage. Not Hildryn. So you're deviating just a wee bit from the topic at hand. 

If you have something to say about Hildryn, one would think it would be smarter and more productive to do so in a thread about Hildryn, no?

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

Technically she does more damage than him.

[Xzorn]

Mirage was actually the strongest frame DE had made in a long time when I came back from a break.

What happened to her after is why players would even be considering comparing the two.

• Clones limited to 2 firing at once heavily reducing Status rates & Damage on some weapons.
• Prism subject to line-of-sight nerf without any increase to it's dreadfully long cast animation.
• Eclipse no long capable of full buff value shown in the UI since lighting changes.
• 2nd ability "buff" doesn't conceptually work since it does not affect the same target twice and clones land first.

...and of course just the game itself where new enemies seem to ignore her clones or if they don't there's plenty of AoE to go around.