The New War: What do the Sentients gain?

[HugintheCrow]

1 hour ago, Lamash2 said:

I don’t get what the Sentients gain from this war that makes it worth the massive risk. 

Uhh, it's simple, I don't understand what you don't get.

They want to kill every human. By going to war they gain the ability to kill all humans. That's literally it.

[rapt0rman]

3 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

Uhh, it's simple, I don't understand what you don't get.

They want to kill every human. By going to war they gain the ability to kill all humans. That's literally it.

Spoiler

 

[ChaoticEdge]

wait didn't we had discussion about the sentient, for I could of swore...oh well I'll find that chat post later on, anyway its obvious the sentient thinking they are doing the goods and killing everything that is orokin which they lump us together with the orokin because they think we are made by the orokin (*cough* idiots *cough*) which we aren't orokin, but they do fear our power that can kill the sentient for they think they know it already as they already judgement settling killing us already for it goes like

Sentient Mom: Kill the tenno because they are threat to us

Sentient Dad (Hunhow): Just do your mother said Nataha

Nataha/Lotus: Ok...

*few mins later*

Nataha/Lotus: nvm I'll take care the kids

*centuries past*

Sentient Dad: Daughter what did we just tell you what your pose to do?

Nataha: but but daddy!

Sentient Dad: No but Nataha, do what you pose to ask

nataha: 😞

*few years later*

Kids (operator): No I don't wanna do it *tantrum mode on*

Nataha: Fine!

*nataha actives her mother tantrum mode*

Nataha: time for me rebel!

Kids: wtfug woman what is your problem

____________________________________________________________

Pretty much sum it up because of small tantrum problem of "Parenting love" or being beloved it which they miss the point of getting loved by for this is why we can't let Lotus turn black the fact is pretty much is a settling moments for other ones.

[Lamash2]

5 minutes ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

The thinking is missing that it's a matter of retaliation potential.  In the real world, USA's enemies don't actively nuke us because the USA can nuke back, and even if we couldn't, other nations could nuke in retaliation.  "Mutually assured destruction" is ironically the best peace-keeping mentality humanity has ever had.

In Warframe, the Sentients attack the origin system and it's not like we can just go to Tau and start laying waste to their worlds, nor are there other star-traveling races/factions out there that will strike Tau simply because they agree that attacking the Origin system is not cool.  The sentient's war on the Orokin (and their descendants) is more akin to us spraying down a hornets nest with wasp killer before it becomes a real problem for our home.  You're not under any real threat right now, but in time you could be.

I don’t agree. By attacking us they massively accelerate the development of our ability to strike at them, because before we weren’t trying to repair or recreate the outer terminus. 

We have the theoretical knowledge already, we just never put it into practice before. Unless they can wipe us out before we develop that technology we will be striking back. And nothing they’ve done so far has in any way inhibited our industry or R&D. So we might have been a threat to them before, but unless they end this war quickly we will be a threat to them now. 

I am reminded of something Admiral Yamamoto said during WWII when planning the war with the US. He said that he could run wild for six months and had to force a surrender in that time, otherwise our industry would out produce what Japan could and we would overrun them. 

However unlike Admiral Yamamoto the Sentients aren’t launching massive attacks to try and cripple our forces. They’re probing the system for intel. That implies a long, drawn out war. Exactly the type of war that would see us able to strike back.

[Lamash2]

18 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

Uhh, it's simple, I don't understand what you don't get.

They want to kill every human. By going to war they gain the ability to kill all humans. That's literally it.

If that’s the case why did they wait until we woke up to attack? We’ve been asleep for centuries remember? If their goal is simple genocide why wait until the Origin system’s greatest defenders had returned before going on the offensive?

[rapt0rman]

4 minutes ago, Lamash2 said:

If that’s the case why did they wait until we woke up to attack? We’ve been asleep for centuries remember? If their goal is simple genocide why wait until the Origin system’s greatest defenders had returned before going on the offensive?

Maybe they needed time to rebuild their own forces.

Also the events that have happened so far are probably the trigger, Tyl Regor Woke up Hunhow, and the Sentient queen managed to convince Ballas to wake up Natah.

[HugintheCrow]

11 minutes ago, Lamash2 said:

why did they wait until we woke up to attack?

They didn't wait until we woke up. They waited until they woke up.

3 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

the events that have happened so far are probably the trigger, Tyl Regor Woke up Hunhow, and the Sentient queen managed to convince Ballas to wake up Natah.

 

[Autongnosis]

il y a une heure, Lamash2 a dit :

First off moving through intersystem space is time consuming yes but they had to do it the first time in order to get to the Tau system to begin with. Also from what we’ve seen Sentients are near immortal so the time between stars (say 10-20 years at a reasonable speed) would not be a problem for them. 

Also they become barren when they use void travel to come to the Origin system. So coming here rather than going somewhere else doesn’t net them anything in terms of colonization.

I seem to recall they did actually use a rail on the way tho? Not the full way but for the start at least. Might be wrong tho. 

That said consider Tau Ceti is 12 light years away. And the Orokin used space folding to move in the solar system, which means their non fold speed isn't even close to light speed (otherwise why bother, to save a few hours of travel?). 

If the realspace engines are capable of even 5% of the speed of light that would make it a 240 years journey not considering any accident. If, in a more realistic scenario, they are capable of about 1% of the speed of light, that becomes 1200 years of travel. Hardly feasible. 

[Urlan]

In the first place, the Sentient were sent through real space to built Solar Rails towards Tau Ceti so that the Orokin Elite could use this stable transit. The Sentient then used their own build rails to speed back to the Sol system to pre-emptively attack the Elite, which damaged them but was considered worth it to assure victory with the Vanguard. The Tenno destroyed the Outer Terminus - which the Corpus are now trying to restore - on near Pluto and damaged Hunhow -all according to Hunhow and Natah's plan- causing him to fall to Uranus. The problem seems to be that the force was pretty big, our victory was a ploy by the Sentient to end the conflict decisively, and and Lotus is now Natah again and furthering a rebuilding forces phase as her 'mother' is going to be sending forces just outside of our normal space to attack us soon per that Trailer. One might wonder why they don't just power those engines and spin around high orbit of the planet they want to kill.

[Giantconch]

The Sentient want to destroy everything Orokin, and everything Orokin related. Tenno, Corpus, Grineer, all of it. They see the Orokin and its creations as destroyers, ruiners of everything. The Sentient see themselves as superior in every way and do not want anything to disrupt or destroy what they have created. Clearly, they believe it is not possible for us to strike back at them, so they are coming with a massive invasion force.

 

What have we managed to do to them so far? Kill a few of their (most likely) light ground troops. Fragments of Hunhow.

 

You can go ahead and try to logic this all you want, but in the end it won't matter. The New War is coming. Sharpen your blade, Tenno.

[Lutesque]

They're doing for the exact same reason we are.... to get that Almighty Nitain Extract....

[Lost_Cartographer]

1 hour ago, Lamash2 said:

I don’t agree. By attacking us they massively accelerate the development of our ability to strike at them, because before we weren’t trying to repair or recreate the outer terminus. 

We have the theoretical knowledge already, we just never put it into practice before. Unless they can wipe us out before we develop that technology we will be striking back. And nothing they’ve done so far has in any way inhibited our industry or R&D. So we might have been a threat to them before, but unless they end this war quickly we will be a threat to them now. 

I am reminded of something Admiral Yamamoto said during WWII when planning the war with the US. He said that he could run wild for six months and had to force a surrender in that time, otherwise our industry would out produce what Japan could and we would overrun them. 

However unlike Admiral Yamamoto the Sentients aren’t launching massive attacks to try and cripple our forces. They’re probing the system for intel. That implies a long, drawn out war. Exactly the type of war that would see us able to strike back.

You're reaching real hard here.  The Corpus have had a long time to fix up the outer terminus and more than likely would have if they could have.  It's not like the Grineer and Corpus are completely incapable of combating them.  It took more than a bunch of Warframe's to bring down the Sentient threat, it took an army of Grineer, Dax and back trekking in weapons technology too.

Finally, the sentients know our journey to the Tau system (or any other system) was always an inevitable "when," not "if."  Pretending otherwise is just being purposefully ignorant.

The sentients are attacking us before we even have the choice to strike back and certainly, there has probably been more than enough time for them to send a colonization force/combat reinforcements via normal space so clearly they're either not that interested in the origin system, they're apathetic and don't care to hear word back from their strike force, or there's something even scarier out there hitting or has hit Tau.  Or the New War IS a new combat force and DE is being all sneaky about their reveals again.  Mostly, the real question isn't why are they attacking us as the answer is evident - to keep us from going to them.   The real question is why are we still dealing with only the sentients that came here thousands(?) of years ago?

Yes, eventually we'll go to Tau... if DE ever gets around to creating new tilesets such that Tau isn't a repeat of Warframe's early beta tileset variety (read: virtually none.)  Still got plenty of planets in the Solar system that could use unique tile sets or their own open world.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Lost_Cartographer

[LogaMC1995]

3 hours ago, Lamash2 said:

In that case why only attack again now? We Tenno have been asleep for centuries. Why wait to come back until after the Origin System again until it gets its strongest defenders back?

They don't have any rails (think of it as a highway) connection from Origin to Tau. So they took the long long route travelling through wide space. In which took them centuries to get to Origin.

[Astraphel]

You also have to remember that the sentients are damaged and broken from the old war and from their trip through the void.  The sentients are also aware that the tower behind cetus has tower kuva in it that is able to restore their ability to replicate, so they're gonna have to destroy that and cetus to get to it, and its not like the tenno would just willingly let them wipe out the Ostrons.

[CastIronNest]

2 hours ago, Drakenar6 said:

You also have to remember that the sentients are damaged and broken from the old war and from their trip through the void.  The sentients are also aware that the tower behind cetus has tower kuva in it that is able to restore their ability to replicate, so they're gonna have to destroy that and cetus to get to it, and its not like the tenno would just willingly let them wipe out the Ostrons.

I thought the Unum's Kuva attracted Eidolons because it could put them back together into the big Sentient that Gara broke, not because it could cure any Sentient's void-exposure infertility.

[Astraphel]

If you look into the codex entries and things the sentient discovers this fact about the kuva before it gets broken by Gara because the Unum put some kuva in animals so she could see through them to find the sentient.  When it found one of the animals with kuva in it and discovered what the kuva could do it began to attack more ferociously which is what prompted gara to use that bomb.

[SilentMobius]

On 2019-08-04 at 4:23 PM, Lamash2 said:

I don’t get what the Sentients gain from this war that makes it worth the massive risk. 

During Tennocon DE said that the threat of annihilation and isolation led to the Sentients developing a form of religion

So this is all probably religious/speciesist supremacy, and as we all know that doesn't need to make sense.

The Orokin viewed them selves as eternal masters of all and they begat a species who is now thinking the same thing, it's the cycle of violence.

[TheGodofWiFi]

From all the lore gathered from the Sacrifice and various other quests, the Sentient's motivation seems to be a mix of revenge for the killings during the Old War and to keep us humanoids from "ruining" other worlds and systems.

Ballas mentioned the world ruining aspect specifically during the recordings, saying that the Sentient's knew that humanity would eventually ruin any world it touched. You know the standard "humans are bad" argument.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On 2019-08-04 at 11:23 AM, Lamash2 said:

So this has been bothering me for a while. As far as I understand the reason for the Old War was that the Sentients didn’t want the Orokin coming to the Tau system and destroying everything the Sentients had built.

By that definition, if that was the Sentient goal they won the Old War as much as we Tenno did. The Orokin are dead. The threat to the Tau system is ended. The Tenno are content to remain in the Origin system and none of the other factions are much of a threat to the Sentients.

So if the threat to their system is ended what do the Sentients gain by attacking the Origin system again? Especially now when the Tenno are awake?

The Tenno were perfectly happy remaining in the Origin system. As far as we were concerned the war was over. But by attacking now the Sentients force our hand. The fact that they’re coming back after their forces were annihilated and their goal achieved means that a defensive war will not bring long term peace. We have to go to the Tau system and either force a proper peace treaty on the Sentients or destroy their ability to make war entirely. 

So looking at this from the perspective of the Sentients I don’t understand what they gain by doing this. The only thing I can think of is that this is a preemptive strike because we Tenno have the potential to be a massive threat to them. 

But us attacking them was never guaranteed. And by starting the war themselves they have made this threat become a reality.  And here’s the thing, even if this war goes in their favor a large part of it will be fought in the Tau system, and there’s no way a war between us and the Sentients won’t have a TON of collateral damage. Just look at the fallout of the Old war!

What’s more, if they lose they may go extinct. And I do not understand why anyone would start a war of extinction if they don’t have to. 

TL;DR

I don’t get what the Sentients gain from this war that makes it worth the massive risk. 

Humanity is the “Golden Wrath” virus...it has mutated since the Empire days, but remains the same.

The Sentients are trying to contain the virus and wipe out the vectors/host before it can infect and kill what is likely a peaceful, Eden-like culture in Tau.

I think that is the sacrifice that all Sentient “warriors” make:  they permanently weaponize themselves once they traverse the Void and can never return to their society.

A “farmer”...a “carpenter”...it begs the question...is Natah fated to purpose or did transference give her the loophole needed to transcend the genetics of her weaponized parents (hence Lotus symbolism may yet be the tell that she will rise about “fate” and be empowered by free will)?

Edited August 6, 2019 by (PS4)Silverback73