Why no cover system?

[sleepychewbacca]

1 minute ago, Hypermega said:

Your the one coming to me but by all means keep playing the victim all because i had answer for your "tongue and cheek response" its nothing if not entertaining 🙂 

See? I told you there was entertainment, given that how I'm here to burn time. You were all like "oh noooo, shutting thread down I have answers, waste time hurr dur".  So, hello kettle, I'm pot. You're looking black today. 

And yes. I am a victim. A victim of boredom. It's a sad sad affliction I will never wish on you.

I mean, all I get out of this is just a conversation. I'm not the one that has difficulty finding cover. 
 

[Eklectus]

3 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

You do you, but I'm pretty sure you'd have more fun if you moved on.

Easier said than done. Not that any of this changes the fact that Warframe's combat is incredibly simplistic once your arsenal is sufficiently stocked.

[AzureTerra]

Because it doesn't need a "system" when there is plenty of cover in the game already if you so chose to use it.

[Lakais]

We already have a cover system. You crouch behind a thing that's big enough to hide you and if it's a pillar, you can use the camera switch button to look over left or right shoulder. Thus minimizing your profile to the enemy. 

Sticky-cover systems only work in games that were built to use it. Warframe isn't that game. Sticking to cover is simply far too slow and stationary and for better or worse, this game is all about mobility. As the OP so admitted. 

Now the necessity of such a system against enemies that can oneshot is not a problem with the lack of such features but the inherent failing of a level-scaling system. But that is a completely different discussion. 

HOWEVER. There is a case to be made this system being somewhat present when we are not playing with frames. As more and more emphasis is being put to Operators and the Duvari Paradox implying aged Operators that can carry weapons, we might see a completely different style of play. Frames are simply too fast and agile for a cover system to be worth the effort. But Operators and possible possession of other non-frame entities would potentially play into a cover system as we see AI enemies utilizing something to that effect. A slower, weaker form that demands more careful play will benefit from a fleshed out cover system, Frames will not. 

[Eklectus]

Just now, AzureTerra said:

Because it doesn't need a "system" when there is plenty of cover in the game already if you so chose to use it.

There isn't. At the moment, being in cover is no more effective than being in the air almost all the time, or rolling. Even less so, considering rolling gives damage reduction. Not to mention the AI would much rather swarm you from every direction, which doesn't leave much room for a cover-based firefight.

The only real method of survivability right now is to kill everything before it has a chance to aim. Once you reach a certain point in enemy scaling, you're also relegated to sitting in Limbo's rift or playing Inaros. Go into a 2 hour kuva survival and tell me how useful cover is.

[(PSN)Shelneroth]

1 hour ago, Hypermega said:

if only it were so simple. sadly missiles, gap closers, AOE, flying enemies, a sticky system is a pretty obvious solution that we don't have when enemy damage reaches lethal numbers

How would sticking to cover counter any of that as opposed to non-stickily using cover?

[Hypermega]

4 minutes ago, AzureTerra said:

Because it doesn't need a "system" when there is plenty of cover in the game already if you so chose to use it.

no there isn't.

2 minutes ago, Lakais said:

We already have a cover system. You crouch behind a thing that's big enough to hide you and if it's a pillar, you can use the camera switch button to look over left or right shoulder. Thus minimizing your profile to the enemy. 

that doesn't work. agree with everything else you said tho 

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

It has been addressed before by Steve himself

TL;DR

No

[Hypermega]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Shelneroth said:

How would sticking to cover counter any of that as opposed to non-stickily using cover?

pretty simple. either it gives you fleeting damage reduction or reduced enemy accuracy (in a cone of course) and/or forces enemies to flank you meaning you would wanna position yourself where that means running up to you. so not something you could always utilize 

[yles9056]

I had some bad experience with cover system. It often makes the character "sticky". Sometimes, the character refuses to leave the cover somehow especially in emergency situations. And sometimes the character would automatically stick to a cover nearby like a magnet even if I don't want to.

So I'm glad Warframe, a fast-paced action game, doesn't have cover system.

Edited August 5, 2019 by yles9056

[Eklectus]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

It has been addressed before by Steve himself

TL;DR

No

TL;DR: We're too lazy to actually change anything or try to make the game challenging through the addition of mechanics that require skill, and would rather keep feeding the endless scaling issue instead.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Eklectus

[(PSN)robotwars7]

yeah, cover isn't really Warframe's kind of thing. in many situations enemies will just spam grenades or rush you, both of which are tactics that work against cover. that's why we have the Parkour abilities: dodge the grenades, keep your distance, keep moving. Warframe is closer to something like DOOM or Wolfenstein in that you are supposed to keep pressing forward.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

3 minutes ago, Eklectus said:

TL;DR: We're too lazy to actually change anything or try to make the game challenging through the addition of mechanics that require skill, and would rather keep feeding the endless scaling issue instead.

#assumption

[Eklectus]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

yeah, cover isn't really Warframe's kind of thing. in many situations enemies will just spam grenades or rush you, both of which are tactics that work against cover. that's why we have the Parkour abilities: dodge the grenades, keep your distance, keep moving. Warframe is closer to something like DOOM or Wolfenstein in that you are supposed to keep pressing forward.

I'd say it's closer to a Diablo clone that requires you to keep clearing the screen of trash enemies as quickly as possible (except these "trash" mobs will inevitably outscale you both in EHP and damage)

[Hypermega]

1 minute ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

It has been addressed before by Steve himself

TL;DR

No

that was 4 years ago! warframe is a very different game now. we are exponentially stronger in damage output which scales, slightly stronger in survivability which doesn't scale, and fighting enemies that are in many cases in a totally different environment and for anyone looking to feel like they even remotely need the overbloated damage we are dealing able to one shot us which is an issue most frames cant deal with. 

Now if you gave me a choice between adding and adjusting basic game mechanics to help players better scale with the damage they are dealing out or completely overhauling the game's balance from the new player with an mk1 braton on earth to the vets going 3 hours in MOT i know which id be leaning towards.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

26 minutes ago, Hypermega said:

that was 4 years ago! warframe is a very different game now.  

If DE wants to implement cover system, they would have done it since the very beginning of this game, it cant be as hard as implementing new engine or new volumetric lighting, the reason why they didn't is as simply as, they dont need it. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by (PS4)ATreidezz

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

You know what is better than being able to take cover? Killing the dudes that are trying to shoot at you. 

The best defense is a good offense killing everything that moves. Try doing that instead. 

[AzureTerra]

42 minutes ago, Eklectus said:

There isn't. At the moment, being in cover is no more effective than being in the air almost all the time, or rolling. Even less so, considering rolling gives damage reduction. Not to mention the AI would much rather swarm you from every direction, which doesn't leave much room for a cover-based firefight.

The only real method of survivability right now is to kill everything before it has a chance to aim. Once you reach a certain point in enemy scaling, you're also relegated to sitting in Limbo's rift or playing Inaros. Go into a 2 hour kuva survival and tell me how useful cover is.

If there is a room full of enemies shooting at me and i stand behind a box then less can see me and that is cover, i can deal with the portion that can see me and take less fire while doing so

[TheGodofWiFi]

Because this isn't COD.

[KnossosTNC]

*Sees thread*

*Goes over to Gears of War's house and slams angrily on the door.*

Gears of War: "What do- Wait, it's you again. Let me guess..."

Me: "This is all-!"

Gears of War: "My fault. Yeah, yeah. Whatever. See you again next time."

*Leaves as Gears of War slams door.*

Edited August 5, 2019 by KnossosTNC

[Corvid]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

If DE wants to implement cover system, they would have done it since the very beginning of this game, it cant be as hard as implementing new engine or new volumetric lighting, the reason why they didn't is as simply as, they dont need it. 

Worth noting that the Evolution Engine has been used for cover systems before. DE are more than capable of adding a cover system, they don't want to because it doesn't fit this type of game (High speed, melee emphasis, high aerial mobility). If you need to block enemy fire, use the level geometry.

[Hypermega]

7 minutes ago, AzureTerra said:

If there is a room full of enemies shooting at me and i stand behind a box then less can see me and that is cover, i can deal with the portion that can see me and take less fire while doing so

Thats not how warframe works. assuming your not playing rhino and only doing fissure missions and actually playing the horde mode which is the only way your output can be tested it will go like this. you stand behind a crate so only a portion of enemies can see you, you DIE! because your a squishy in MOT or vodyanoi and one hit is all it took. a strong frame yeah you can go abit further but not as far as your damage goes not even close. unless your running one of the very few builds that don't get hit AT ALL

[Corvid]

1 minute ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Because this isn't COD.

Last I checked, CoD didn't have a cover system (aside from a soft "if you're standing at the edge of a wall and aim, your character will lean out from it" system, which I personally don't count.). If you're going to disparage, at least be accurate about it.

[Corvid]

2 minutes ago, Hypermega said:

Thats not how warframe works. assuming your not playing rhino and only doing fissure missions and actually playing the horde mode which is the only way your output can be tested it will go like this. you stand behind a crate so only a portion of enemies can see you, you DIE! because your a squishy in MOT or vodyanoi and one hit is all it took. a strong frame yeah you can go abit further but not as far as your damage goes not even close. unless your running one of the very few builds that don't get hit AT ALL

In other words, you're not playing at levels the game is balanced around. If you're squishy it's your own fault, what with the modding system and all.

[TheGodofWiFi]

2 minutes ago, Corvid said:

(aside from a soft "if you're standing at the edge of a wall and aim, your character will lean out from it" system, which I personally don't count.).

That counts as a cover system by the standards book. If you want to argue, don't use your personal opinions.