Gauss toughts

[TheNasky]

Hello fellow tennos. i have been playing gauss for the last few days, and i got to admit i fell in love with his playstyle as soon as i saw him, i like that he is a speedy melee tank, kinda like inaros, but faster and more melee oriented, wich is great specially for players like me, who like to focus specifically on melee gameplay but...

he definitely has some core issues on his kit. to begin with, a lot of his real power is directly tied to his 2 "Kinetic Plating" his 4 "Redline" and overall his battery level. now, he has a lot of cool mechanics and powers that make him a really fun and strong warframe, except... he doesnt have any way of using them, because keeping his battery above 0% is just impossible, the drain from his kinetic plating makes it literally impossible to accummulate battery, preventing him from using any of the nice tools he has, like: 

*Fast cc on his 3

*Increased attack speed/fire rate/reload speed on his 4

*increased melee damage on his 2

*better damage reduction on his 2

so TL-DR: he has a lot of good stuff on his kit, but no way to use it.

now, what i proppose to "Fix" him is something that i discussed with a lot of gauss mains, and we all agreed it would make his kit a lot more fun and rewarding, while also making him a bit stronger, specially in higher levels: 

Adding a new passive to his 4 "Redline" making it so he gets 5% battery whenever he strikes an enemy with a melee attack, (and maybe 1% or 2% per ranged attack) but increase the drain by a little bit or make it drain energy or health instead of battery, now what does this mean? it means that as long as he keeps hitting enemies fast enough, he will get access to all the cool mechanics on his kit, rewarding players for "being fast" (wich is kinda his thing, right?)

some other cool changes  i think he could get use are:

* Increasing energy return on Kinetic plating from 5% to 8% and maybe up to 10% while redline is active.

* Make it so his battery charges up to 100% at a fixed speed, instead of it scaling with duration, because if you build him for duration, on a 90 second redline, it will actually take 60 seconds to charge it for a 30 second duration afterwards, wich is extremely dumb and renders the interaction pretty much unusable.

* Reducing Redline's Cast speed considerably. he is meant to be a fast moving, fast attacking warframe, but he cant attack during the really long animation redline has.

*Reworking his passive to something usefull like the nullifier immunity he desperately needs or making energy drain effects on him be reduced. or make it so he gets increased energy pool based on missing health,

* increasing his base energy by +50: since as of right now with primed flow you get around 640 energy, wich is very meaningfull for gauss, because he needs that energy not only for tanking trough QT, but also his abilities consume quite a lot of energy, having that extra 50 base energy would put him at a solid 850 increasing his overall tankiness by quite a bit.

*Making his 3 Scale better damage wise, or increase range by a little bit,  15 to 20 might help him without making him op.

i have to admit i have been enjoying gauss a lot, but in the end, most of the fun stuff of his kit is restricted from ever working, so imo he should get a reliable way of using these mechanics or he will never be good at anything,

his damage is really bad, his speed is also bad compared to other fast warframes, and even though he is not a bad tank he fades when compared to other tanks. the only thing good about him imo is that he seems to be a bit more melee oriented than the others,

[Miser_able]

I don't think redline is meant to be active all the time. That's the point. You're pushing his systems beyond the limit, it's an emergency "oh sh*t" button. 

As for kinetic plating, it doesnt drain that fast if you keep moving and don't get hit, which is his whole point. He isn't meant to sit there and soak up damage. He is a guerilla fighter. Get in, strike, get out. If you're getting hit you're doing something wrong. 

If you use his 1 to dash in and out of combat you can refresh the battery lost from the bullets you did take pretty easily. 

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

Your lack of attention to detail makes me think your opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.

[TheNasky]

the idea of gauss you have is pretty cool, but this is warframe, no matter how fast you run, enemies can still hit you, because their attacks are all hitscan (except melee of course) so no matter how fast you run, you are going to get hit, and it is going to quickly shred you battery to 0%

now, on low level gameplay he might work like that, but im talking about the real game, high level enemies will kill you in seconds if you dont have Kinectic plating active at all times, and even if you do, you are still going to have trouble if you dont move and kill them fast enough, so thats why im asking for this change. it will encourage people to quickly run in for the kill, not only rewarding him for being fast, but also making him more reliable and fun to play.

again, the "guerrilla fighter" you talk about sounds, really fun, but it is never going to work, past level 40

Edited September 11, 2019 by TheNasky
forgot a word.

[TheNasky]

 

1 minute ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Your lack of attention to detail makes me think your opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.

what do you mean? i would appreciate you tell me what "details" am i missing.

[TheNasky]

11 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

I don't think redline is meant to be active all the time. That's the point. You're pushing his systems beyond the limit, it's an emergency "oh sh*t" button. 

thats also a big thing, as it currently stands, not only is redline not meant to be used all the time but, on the contrary, there is absolutely no reason to use it, because it kinda sucks.

[RX-3DR]

16 minutes ago, TheNasky said:

the idea of gauss you have is pretty cool, but this is warframe, no matter how fast you run, enemies can still hit you, because their attacks are all hitscan (except melee of course) so no matter how fast you run, you are going to get hit, and it is going to quickly shred you battery to 0%

now, on low level gameplay he might work like that, but im talking about the real game, high level enemies will kill you in seconds if you dont have Kinectic plating active at all times, and even if you do, you are still going to have trouble if you dont move and kill them fast enough, so thats why im asking for this change. it will encourage people to quickly run in for the kill, not only rewarding him for being fast, but also making him more reliable and fun to play.

again, the "guerrilla fighter" you talk about sounds, really fun, but it is never going to work, past level 40

Maybe stop building him with a one-trick pony mindset. Even without Kinetic Plating, you can easily go into the 100+ range until you reach the point where everyone without a constant 90% damage reduction dies, which is perfectly fine. You just need to make use of his advantages, his Shield Recharge speed, and it will carry you to level 80 enemies with very little problems.  I've had no problems bringing Gauss into Arbitrations without dying and dishing out good damage. Sure he's not as braindead to play as Inaros, etc but not many frames have a fire rate/reload speed/holster speed buff that is a great for combat beyond mashing a single button.

[Kyronz]

albeit my gauss only has potato and 1 forma... but DULL, DULL as  hell the frame excels at nothing has not even a nominal purpose.......just crap.

[TheNasky]

3 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

Maybe stop building him with a one-trick pony mindset. Even without Kinetic Plating, you can easily go into the 100+ range until you reach the point where everyone without a constant 90% damage reduction dies, which is perfectly fine. You just need to make use of his advantages, his Shield Recharge speed, and it will carry you to level 80 enemies with very little problems.  I've had no problems bringing Gauss into Arbitrations without dying and dishing out good damage. Sure he's not as braindead to play as Inaros, etc but not many frames have a fire rate/reload speed/holster speed buff that is a great for combat beyond mashing a single button.

you are talking about his advantages, but in reality he doesnt have any, his 3 is a small radius- low damage, cc area. wich is fine, but gets outclassed by pretty much all other similar abilities, his 1 makes him run fast, but not as fast as other warframes, while also making him unable to attack wich imo is pretty bad for the overall playstyle, and his 4 is unusable with kinetic plating, wich again takes me to the same point, ofc you could play without kinetic plating, and have a warframe with a weird kit with no identity, but imo it would be much better if his kit worked better as a whole. 

as for the passive i dont know if you are joking or not. you are talking about tanking with shields, wich is really really stupid. 

shields take around 70/80% more damage than health due to the lack of armor, making his passive totally meaningless unless you are fighting weaklings. you might do good in lowie level 80s, but past that he will blow up if not using kinetic plating, 

just as a quick note, even tho he doesnt seem like it,he is actually pretty tanky, with my tanky build i can literally afk on the sanctuary (lvl 70s) as long as i have my kinetic plating, and they wont be able to kill me because of the Kinetic plating - Quick thinking interaction. 

my only issue with gauss is that his kit doesnt make sense at all, none of his abilities sinergyse well with each other, wich is a clear design flaw. that could be fixed pretty easily with the change i propposed. in the end it just feels like they designed him with redline being his master trick, but in reality not only is the rest of his kit poor, but his one cool trick doesnt work. wich is just sad.

[TheNasky]

10 minutes ago, Kyronz said:

albeit my gauss only has potato and 1 forma... but DULL, DULL as  hell the frame excels at nothing has not even a nominal purpose.......just crap.

this exactly. he has a really cool concept but it feels as if they wanted to prevent him from being op, and as a result ended up releasing a weak warframe with no true identity to his kit. he does nothing well besides being cool and fast,

[JackHargreav]

A good frame with terrible Dr ability.

I can already hear the replies saying "you have to always be on the move" but that's not how it works. On lower levels it does work, on higher levels you either MachRush or you die in the very second you stop. And Vallis enemies don't give a #*!% about your speed. They will take you down really #*!%ing fast even while you're running.

So basically Kinetic plating should change. 

Edited September 11, 2019 by JackHargreav

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

48 minutes ago, TheNasky said:

 

what do you mean? i would appreciate you tell me what "details" am i missing.

Sorry dude you're good I'm actually wasted it's not your fault

[VanFanel1980mx]

I personally think his 1 should do damage on contact with enemies, people have suggested to inherit his melee damage for that, his 2 should NOT drain battery on its own if it also drains from taking damage, 3 is more or less decent, maybe needs a little bit of range, and 4 should give him bonuses at the beginning and not just with overclocked battery, at the end of its duration it certainly doesn't do much on its own.

[XzWasPzX]

There cant be Gauss mains yet, literally impossible. 

[TheNasky]

10 minutes ago, XzWasPzX said:

There cant be Gauss mains yet, literally impossible. 

we are not many, and i have the impression that, if DE doesnt fix gauss's ult we are going to be less and less with each day.

[kyori]

Too much micro-management this frame....

[0_The_F00l]

Yes, it is a bit of an awkward mechanic. 

Not saying it's not effective or manageable or even fun, just feels redundant and twisted 

Let me explain my stance :

The first ability is fine, the blast radius is OK and the slash procs can really add up, I managed to get a lot of damage just by headbutting into doorways. 

The second is a tanking (debatable) ability that reduces its DR % with time. Basically an anti adaptation variant. 

And you increase the DR by running, which reduces the chance of getting hit in the first place. 

So it's less of a tanking ability and more of avoiding single instance of damage.

The HA like effect is kinda nice, but I couldn't really get it to replenish enough energy to be noticeable, probably cause I kept moving and didn't get hit. 

The three sounds cool on paper, but I rarely used anything other than the cold effect, still useable but only moderately useful outside of doorway CC. And once cast you will rarely stay within that area so no really reason to cast it and take advantage of its effects. (you can cast it while moving, but again no real reason to do so.) 

The four is pretty nice, don't really see an issue with it, wish there was a way to extend 100% redline duration some way though. 

[TheNasky]

8 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

The second is a tanking (debatable) ability that reduces its DR % with time. Basically an anti adaptation variant. 

And you increase the DR by running, which reduces the chance of getting hit in the first place. 

So it's less of a tanking ability and more of avoiding single instance of damage.

The HA like effect is kinda nice, but I couldn't really get it to replenish enough energy to be noticeable, probably cause I kept moving and didn't get hit. 

his 2 makes him really tanky, you can literally afk on lvl 70s and not die. if properly built (specially with adaptation and double arcane guardians) but the problem is that on higher levels, you are left with only 1 ability, because his 1 and 3 are totally irrelevant. and his 4 is meaningless if you dont have any battery. wich you shouldnt have if kinetic plating is up.

i have being doing some endurance runs lately and he seems okey. im using the spin2win tactic to just run around the map in a second while killing everything on my path. and it moves so fast that it seems to be charging his battery a little bit. but it is just too little to make a difference (around 20% permanently) if they at least increased the ammount of battery you get per meter moved (at least x3) then he would at least have a chance to proc his ult. wich is what he needs the most imo.

[0_The_F00l]

8 hours ago, TheNasky said:

his 2 makes him really tanky, you can literally afk on lvl 70s and not die. if properly built (specially with adaptation and double arcane guardians) but the problem is that on higher levels, you are left with only 1 ability, because his 1 and 3 are totally irrelevant. and his 4 is meaningless if you dont have any battery. wich you shouldnt have if kinetic plating is up.

Anything with adaptation and two guardians can be an effective tank under right circumstances, not sure it's limited to Gauss. You can get up to 50% DR with enough strength even at zero battery. 

Also don't forget, the reduction is only for IPS and HCB. 

That's why I said it's debatable, same reason I put Gauss not too high on the list. 

I also did not have any problem with keeping the battery up even with kinetic plating on, but as I said, I rarely took any damage as I was almost always moving. 

You seem to favour the less movement oriented style. 

[BL4CKN0ISE]

He's currently my favorite melee frame and he fixes the problem I had with Zephyr. I always wanted a frame who could close the distance quickly and then instantly melee attack. He also has great CC, damage reduction, multiple elements he can proc on enemies for CO, and the ability to easily strip armor. I honestly don't understand why people have a problem with a super fast frame who can do so much. 

 

[Sovereign991]

On 2019-09-11 at 5:24 AM, TheNasky said:

we are not many, and i have the impression that, if DE doesnt fix gauss's ult we are going to be less and less with each day.

People talking about redline being useless and how kinetic plating is bad are terrible at theorycraft and dont understand how gauss is meant to be played.

 

Redline removes the need to mod for attack speed on melee and makes your melee stronger.

 

His 2 works just fine if you arent just sitting still shooting enemies for 14 seconds under sustained fire. I took gauss to an arb last night, zero issues, went to round 12 no problems even in sight, left because everyone was ready to be done.

 

Guess needs minor QoL tweaks, hes a perfectly good frame.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Sovereign991

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

There's something to be said about the level of demand the kit exerts on the player in order to maintain peak performance.  But I can't for sure say if that's a problem that needs fixing.  It would make him more accessible and thus we'd see more of him post release.  But idk if that's entirely needed.

That being said I do think he could see some improvements.  And this is just me spitballing as I don't have access to him yet:

-Mach rush refunds energy/battery or a bit of both when he directly hits enemies.

-Thermal sunder's armor strip capability is turned into a flat value instead of one that scales off of battery level.  Potentially boost the strip from 50%

-Remove the shrinking circle effect on thermal sunder.

-double casting the same effect on sunder reduces the energy cost of the second cast.

-double casting fire reduces the battery cost.

-thermal sunder has a flat % chance to proc it's cc effect (freeze/panic) when enemies enter the radius.

-Extend the "sprint effect" to hipfiring and meleeing.  (at the moment holding sprint while jumping/bullet jumping, and aim gliding counts as sprinting for the battery meter.  Allowing you to be mobile and gain meter/counter act drain.  Adding this to hipfiring and meleeing would smooth out combat for gauss while sticking with his mobility.)