LONG LIVE PABLO ! ! !

[bibmobello]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)R3N36AD3 said:

How many times did people try to compare warframe to Destiny and vice versa? Or Anthem to warframe?.... OK well that one is not nearly fair to WF, I apologize.

But that's what's impressive about WF, though. It's a free to play structured game that can compete with AAA titles. Think about this.. In the 2 years (approx.) that a AAA title have to develop a game, how much content did WF release in the same given timeframe in the past?

WF can compete with paid titles because it's F2P with all the associated drawbacks:  few main updates and the game is still in beta. 

Edited September 13, 2019 by bibmobello

[(PSN)R3N36AD3]

26 minutes ago, VotumPrime said:

No bully Scott please.

@Walkampf single-handedly did that. Just waiting on Scott's response.

 

24 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

I see you a lot on these fourms always spouting out the you have no idea how much development cost etc.... where do you work?

You don't have to work in the game industry to have knowledge about the game industry. Like you don't have to be a lawyer to know any law. You just need to educate yourself, gather as much info, and criticize the credibility of the information.

[(PSN)R3N36AD3]

2 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

WF can compete with paid titles because it's F2P with all the associated drawbacks:  few main updates and the game is still in beta. 

AAA titles have drawbacks, too. But you're willing to pay top currency for it.

And tell me how is it a free to play game can look f cking gorgeous on a top of the line PC that's comparable to other AAA games with the exact same rig?

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

38 minutes ago, (PS4)R3N36AD3 said:

@Walkampf single-handedly did that. Just waiting on Scott's response.

 

You don't have to work in the game industry to have knowledge about the game industry. Like you don't have to be a lawyer to know any law. You just need to educate yourself, gather as much info, and criticize the credibility of the information.

I’m well aware of that bro. But do you think instantly dismissing and or just saying “you don’t know how this works without explaining proper and or common knowledge about said topic is cool” me and guy have shared words about this to which I told him I’ve worked with development and have an extensive knowledge with the field. To which he replied “ but you don’t work for de” I’m very critical of his post because he seems not very knowledgeable on the topic and instead of just acting like such he chooses to blanket his actions and words with the opposite 

[Ephemiel]

7 hours ago, Walkampf said:

You should gow, up that is. Try to get a job and see what working is actually like instead.

What you are proposing is a fairytale. DE is doing all they can, if they could hire more people, they probably whould, like any business. However, since they don't, there is a reason why, be it not having money to spare, or maybe the lack of competent people to introduce to their workforce.

You have literally no idea about costs in videogame development. True, it's easy to increase some numbers on a technical level, but you are completly ignoring the costs of the balancing process.

 

Positive encouragement is one thing, but you are just unreasonable.

Defending DE is one thing, but let's not pretend DE is a sad little indie company.

They got the backing of a big company, they're one of the top games on Steam, they got a TON of people [who seemingly are not working on the game] and they got enough money to do a crazy event involving sending someone into space.

These people HAVE more than enough funds to fix all the issues people have mentioned for years, they just decide against it.

[5H4DE]

2 hours ago, Toppien said:

if Pablo did the last zephyr rework, then im not a fan of him...

Dunno if it was him there, but he did Nezha and Saryn reworks.

That aside, Scott is the one who designed Hildryn so I have faith in the Vauban rework.

[Zekkii]

It's true that the OP has a... less than realistic viewpoint, but some of what he says is true.  I can't imagine it would be difficult to change the numbers on any of the pointless mods that clutter our inventory.  Even changing the numbers of certain frames abilities would go a long way without much effort.

[Melkfet]

8 hours ago, HIGHDAMAGE said:

on what nr did i fail ?!!

aint warframe on top 10 steam games for years

aint they sending ppl to space

it was u who wanted to compare aaa title with warframe 

why do u seem so scared to even imagine warframe expanding  

also check https://www.polygon.com/2015/4/6/8354029/tomb-raider-2013-reboot-sales-square-enix dont be afraid

 

You don't understand F2P and the current Warframe F2P system.

All non F2P have a budget to begin with. Let's say 10mil €. This covers the dev team, marketing team, enginnering team,etc. salaries, and other expenses for creating the game. The release of the game should bring 10mil€ to cover the development expenses and then let's say another 10mil€ as profit. So the bussiness recovered the money spent on development and made only 10mil€ as profit to invest in other development, expansion etc.

Let's say warframe had a begining budget of 5mil€.  As in the first example, this covers all the expenses needed, but on release, having their unique F2P system, they recovered their 5mil€ and the profit is slowly increasing.

BUT, unlike the first example, where the devs finnished their job and moved to another project, here we have long term investment. That means the company still invests in development and needs to make profit year after year.

The profit in such a system isn't that big as a normal game and not even consistent. There are months were players will buy plat and cosmetics and primes, etc, and other months, were they will not. But the employees have to receive their pay .

So the profit/investment has to be carefuly managed ( months were other games are released and the playerbase will stop playing warframe, holydays, etc), and in my opinion they are doing a good job.

In conclusion, warframe has profit , but not in the way you think. Most of the profit gained each month goes back in development and paying it's team. The rest is investment in more future development.

It's a good, sustainable system but also a very very hard system to manage.

 

So the rule of thumb is, when you look for a company profit, first look at their expenses.

 

 

[(PSN)R3N36AD3]

2 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

I’m well aware of that bro. But do you think instantly dismissing and or just saying “you don’t know how this works without explaining proper and or common knowledge about said topic is cool” me and guy have shared words about this to which I told him I’ve worked with development and have an extensive knowledge with the field. To which he replied “ but you don’t work for de” I’m very critical of his post because he seems not very knowledgeable on the topic and instead of just acting like such he chooses to blanket his actions and words with the opposite 

I'm not aware of that. Not really familiar with his postings.

But to be fair, people do tend to ask way too much from DE, like the work they put in are easy. People need to understand that who they're demanding contents from are people, too. They have individual limitations like you and i.

[(PSN)Kamil-the-KamiKa]

doesn't it bother you guys at all that a player can not even suggest some number changes without people rushing in to complain about dev costs and effort ect...?

 

[(PSN)R3N36AD3]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Kamil-the-KamiKa said:

doesn't it bother you guys at all that a player can not even suggest some number changes without people rushing in to complain about dev costs and effort ect...?

 

Balance is key. The laws of supply and demand at hand. Can't have one without the other. 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 hour ago, (PS4)R3N36AD3 said:

I'm not aware of that. Not really familiar with his postings.

But to be fair, people do tend to ask way too much from DE, like the work they put in are easy. People need to understand that who they're demanding contents from are people, too. They have individual limitations like you and i.

Very true but as a business if we’re going to treat them soly as a business and company as the guys thread contains. A business follows supply/ demand chain. That being said if they can’t supply what the consumers are wanting in a reasonable rate the consumer is always going to be upset. Consumer satisfaction goes down and so does playtime and avg players on for a game. So DE should fix their supply chain if so. But that’s only if we’re going at this as a business 

[(PSN)R3N36AD3]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Very true but as a business if we’re going to treat them soly as a business and company as the guys thread contains. A business follows supply/ demand chain. That being said if they can’t supply what the consumers are wanting in a reasonable rate the consumer is always going to be upset. Consumer satisfaction goes down and so does playtime and avg players on for a game. So DE should fix their supply chain if so. But that’s only if we’re going at this as a business 

Couldn't have agreed more.

There is no need for cheap insults just because people are being impatient, though. It's like most of us work to make a living. How would you feel if someone you don't know or the job that you do started criticizing you and your work?

If anybody feels that DE can't sustain your needs in the game, it's a free to play game, people. No one's holding a gun to your head and tells you to keep playing. 

[0_The_F00l]

 

There are things I both agree and disagree with in the post. 

What I agree with : request to rework old frames and mods and mechanics.

What i disagree with : telling DE how to do their job. 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)R3N36AD3 said:

Couldn't have agreed more.

There is no need for cheap insults just because people are being impatient, though. It's like most of us work to make a living. How would you feel if someone you don't know or the job that you do started criticizing you and your work?

If anybody feels that DE can't sustain your needs in the game, it's a free to play game, people. No one's holding a gun to your head and tells you to keep playing. 

 

I work in hospitality. Everyone criticizes me because I deal with the public. I get it it’s frustrating. I get it way more then you think I do. But at the same time. If you’re not delivering you can’t be upset. If you’re missing the mark to people they get upset

 

It’s be different if DE was saying this not somebody who’s throws that out at every complaint. And it’s a live service game meaning by foundation it’s meant for you to keep playing and had some thing implemented to make you want to keep playing and or stay on longer. Personally I feel like there doing a poor job cause I get bored in about 2-3 missions now. But that’s just me and a margin of players who want more sustainable content. 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

Also there’s no way you guys aren’t seeing the complete and utter satire within this post gosh. Lighten up

[Scar.brother.help.me]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Kamil-the-KamiKa said:

doesn't it bother you guys at all that a player can not even suggest some number changes without people rushing in to complain about dev costs and effort ect...?

 

Hell yeah! The recent update made a very nice boost to the bows. They are still a lot weaker than meta weapons, but at least they are ok now + enjoyable. I don't think these tweaks made a hole in DE budget but made a very nice positive impact to the game. I am a fan of bows myself and enjoy seeing more people using it.

If the same job was done to crappy mods to make them as good as "mandatory" ones - that would be a thing to actually invent builds (now we have 5-6 mods that are must be +2-3 of the small pool as a difference).

And sooooo many good looking weapons that are even good at mechanics, need no rework but just have very low numbers that make them MR fodders. And DE has already put a lot of effort to create them. It makes me sad and sorry to DE themselves. Just add some crit- or status ability or boost raw damage of some non-crit, non-status weapons so they can compete with meta-guns by DPS and make the job done. Whatever numbers that will make them appealing.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

20 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

 

There are things I both agree and disagree with in the post. 

What I agree with : request to rework old frames and mods and mechanics.

What i disagree with : telling DE how to do their job. 

 

Well, may be the last one is a bit arrogant but I just suppose they don't really want to spend their time on balance or don't have that time at all. I just wish they did that thing or hired someone capable of doing it so there is no need to wait for it for a few years.

[Valiant]

6 hours ago, Toppien said:

if Pablo did the last zephyr rework, then im not a fan of him...

Was suddenly thinking of this yesterday and to be fair she does need yet another look at. Same for nyx I imagine. 

Wish most frames which got a revisit were to the standard of wukong, for example. Ember has been messed around so much and vauban was just a waste of time really. I still miss his old school bastille where it was unlimited and it could make infested defences a hanging sparkly disco. 

[HIGHDAMAGE]

2 hours ago, Melkfet said:

You don't understand F2P and the current Warframe F2P system.

All non F2P have a budget to begin with. Let's say 10mil €. This covers the dev team, marketing team, enginnering team,etc. salaries, and other expenses for creating the game. The release of the game should bring 10mil€ to cover the development expenses and then let's say another 10mil€ as profit. So the bussiness recovered the money spent on development and made only 10mil€ as profit to invest in other development, expansion etc.

Let's say warframe had a begining budget of 5mil€.  As in the first example, this covers all the expenses needed, but on release, having their unique F2P system, they recovered their 5mil€ and the profit is slowly increasing.

BUT, unlike the first example, where the devs finnished their job and moved to another project, here we have long term investment. That means the company still invests in development and needs to make profit year after year.

The profit in such a system isn't that big as a normal game and not even consistent. There are months were players will buy plat and cosmetics and primes, etc, and other months, were they will not. But the employees have to receive their pay .

So the profit/investment has to be carefuly managed ( months were other games are released and the playerbase will stop playing warframe, holydays, etc), and in my opinion they are doing a good job.

In conclusion, warframe has profit , but not in the way you think. Most of the profit gained each month goes back in development and paying it's team. The rest is investment in more future development.

It's a good, sustainable system but also a very very hard system to manage.

 

So the rule of thumb is, when you look for a company profit, first look at their expenses.

 

 

i understand all of this but don't think its the case for ppl still considering warframe a indie game

a story of success who made it to time square and now trying to send a player into real space 

just for a grofit idea let say random aaa tittle cost 60-70$ and lets take a 3 month time period in warframe when u get a bunch of skins/prime access/unvaults/tennogen and other stuff u can buy in game 

lmao even rumbas sell good 

not really wana compare it with triple a games but it sells man steam chart is my main indicator

 

 

[(PSN)R3N36AD3]

5 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

 

I work in hospitality. Everyone criticizes me because I deal with the public. I get it it’s frustrating. I get it way more then you think I do. But at the same time. If you’re not delivering you can’t be upset. If you’re missing the mark to people they get upset

Totally fair. Not going to argue that.

5 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

It’s be different if DE was saying this not somebody who’s throws that out at every complaint. And it’s a live service game meaning by foundation it’s meant for you to keep playing and had some thing implemented to make you want to keep playing and or stay on longer. Personally I feel like there doing a poor job cause I get bored in about 2-3 missions now. But that’s just me and a margin of players who want more sustainable content. 

I think 7 years has been pretty long for a game for people to be playing, imo. They're swimming against the current and everyday they get swept. And i totally get how the game is rn. I'm in similar way. I play longer when my squad is online. Besides that, I just run my daily routine and log out.

[sird]

christ that title..thought something bad happened to him

[SECURATYYY]

I really hope he has time to tinker with Ash.

Ash has always been a favorite for me, but his abilities are so clunky at the moment it's aggravating. Even if he had the old bladestorm, it wouldn't compete with Saryn or Wukong or etc.

 

I can understand why they nerfed him, but the whole 'direct line of sight' to 'paint the targets' is a bit cumbersome. Something like garuda's 4 for targeting would be sooooo much better.

 

Also his 1 needs to throw three instead of two. 😛

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2019-09-12 at 10:49 PM, Melkfet said:

You don't understand F2P and the current Warframe F2P system.

All non F2P have a budget to begin with. Let's say 10mil €. This covers the dev team, marketing team, enginnering team,etc. salaries, and other expenses for creating the game. The release of the game should bring 10mil€ to cover the development expenses and then let's say another 10mil€ as profit. So the bussiness recovered the money spent on development and made only 10mil€ as profit to invest in other development, expansion etc.

Let's say warframe had a begining budget of 5mil€.  As in the first example, this covers all the expenses needed, but on release, having their unique F2P system, they recovered their 5mil€ and the profit is slowly increasing.

BUT, unlike the first example, where the devs finnished their job and moved to another project, here we have long term investment. That means the company still invests in development and needs to make profit year after year.

The profit in such a system isn't that big as a normal game and not even consistent. There are months were players will buy plat and cosmetics and primes, etc, and other months, were they will not. But the employees have to receive their pay .

So the profit/investment has to be carefuly managed ( months were other games are released and the playerbase will stop playing warframe, holydays, etc), and in my opinion they are doing a good job.

In conclusion, warframe has profit , but not in the way you think. Most of the profit gained each month goes back in development and paying it's team. The rest is investment in more future development.

It's a good, sustainable system but also a very very hard system to manage.

 

So the rule of thumb is, when you look for a company profit, first look at their expenses.

 

 

Exactly this!

To add to this, consider the potential wages, benefits and resources needed for the roughly 300 employees (not a lot at all by the way). IF they make $100K per year each, that's $30 million per year, NOT INCLUDING the employee benefits, resources, servers, marketing, legal needs, office leasing and facility needs. Again, it's not as black and white as people make it seem. It's a huge success that they've managed for 7 years!

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

Without seeing their expenses and what they take in revenue wise we have no clue how well off DE is financially.  We can guess at it all day long whether they're living prime access to prime access or if they have a $50 million dollar surplus lying around.  

You can bash Scott, however, wait to bash until after they announce the vauban rework in the dev workshop and what exactly they're doing with his kit.  Bashing before that helps no one.