Corrosive Prisoner's Dilemma

[-Krism-]

Why would I need CP if I can already oneshot a Heavy Gunner no matter the lvl?

[Valiant]

40 minutes ago, W4RM3CH4N1C said:

Pretty much all enemies have armour, it might be small but essentially having CP on will (and this will vary greatly ofc) increase the damage done / speed of kills for the team.

My only gripe is when i accidentally end up in a pug team with the 3 other CP and I'd wished I'd brought viral instead.

Kind of how I see it and definitely the last remark. 

Either way I think after reading this topic I'll switch up some builds on a few frames, but I still don't entirely need energy siphon with zenurik so. Wish they'd buff a few auras anyways, introduce some new interesting ones and make them give the same points as steel charge so we do maybe get a bit more variety 🤷‍♂️

[YazMatazO]

6 hours ago, Zekkii said:

If you bring a single corrosive projection, it will do next to nothing.  If you bring two, it will have a noticeable effect.  If you have three, it's strong.  If you have four, it's broken beyond all belief.

Problem is, do you trust your other three group members to bring it?  You know Energy Siphon is pretty good, and Steel Charge comes with four extra points on it and a decent melee boost against all factions.  I rarely see full squads with CP anyways.

Thoughts?

I think a single CP is good, as well. 

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 6 heures, Zekkii a dit :

If you bring a single corrosive projection, it will do next to nothing.  If you bring two, it will have a noticeable effect.  If you have three, it's strong.  If you have four, it's broken beyond all belief.

Problem is, do you trust your other three group members to bring it?  You know Energy Siphon is pretty good, and Steel Charge comes with four extra points on it and a decent melee boost against all factions.  I rarely see full squads with CP anyways.

Thoughts?

1 CP gives about +43% dmg. I'd say that's not "next to nothing" 

[Lolacrayola]

1 hour ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Why would I need CP if I can already oneshot a Heavy Gunner no matter the lvl?

Because the aura doesn't just benefit you, it benefits your teammates who may struggle against armour.

In any mission type where I expect to see armoured enemies, I find myself bringing CP even on a frames that can effectively ignore them, because doing so helps my buddies deal with enemy armour scaling - the single biggest obstacle to ally damage scaling in the entire game. In Eidolon hunting, 3 out of 4 players will bring Corrosive Projection and 2 of those will bring Coaction Drift solely to help the 4th player break limbs faster. They do not individually benefit from their own aura/exilus, but this selflessness still results in faster runs and more loot for everyone.

In SO, just bringing CP for your Volt or Equinox will do more for kill speed than running around and pretending to shoot things. Contrary to what was said on page 1, Equinox's nuke is the stored damage, not the bleed ticks. Equinox nuke is heavily affected by armour.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Lolacrayola

[-Krism-]

2 hours ago, Lolacrayola said:

Because the aura doesn't just benefit you, it benefits your teammates who may struggle against armour.

Like I didn't know that, but I'm a solo player, may be why I don't care in the least about this mod

[nslay]

I usually bring CP, but I often play solo and when I don't, I never assume the rest will bring CP. I always bring one weapon that can strip armor just in case.

[(PSN)SnakeLogic]

As others have already mentioned, even just 1 CP makes a fairly large difference.

I use it almost all the time, both solo and in public matchmaking. 

The only time i don’t have it on is if im using Kohm (it shreds high level enemies / armor instantly, and in a long mission id rather have the ammo from Shotgun Scavenger.)

Also i don’t use CP when im Limbo. Trust me, you don’t want to use CP with Limbo, its pretty bad lol.

 

[844448]

5 hours ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Why would I need CP if I can already oneshot a Heavy Gunner no matter the lvl?

Share build pls, I also want to oneshot Heavy Gunners even at level 9999 :3

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

5 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Share build pls, I also want to oneshot Heavy Gunners even at level 9999 :3

Well, it only 2-shots them, but a Redeemer Prime with 100% status and Condition Overload, built for Rad/Viral, with Blood Rush/Gladiator set and any combo 2x or higher.

Not sure about oneshotting a 9999 Heavy Gunner, but it will 2-shot lvl 300+.

I've never gone far enough to see when it falls off, though.

[(PSN)Lollybomb]

Every mission I play on public I assume that the remainder of the squad will be filled with people running full sets of unranked gear with few to no mods installed.  Not because I think everyone is stupid, but because the only thing I can be sure of is that anyone who joins will meet the minimum requirements to join that mission.  Which is, in most cases, a warframe, and a weapon.  It could be an unranked Vauban with only an unranked heat dagger, or it could be a rank 30 Mesa with 8 formas on all their gear to fit all the primed mods and rivens they can cram in.  There are exceptions.  I can be sure that anyone who joins the elite Onslaught will have at least a rank 30 warframe, but that's about it.

[nslay]

I've plotted 0, 1, 2 and 3 CP's effect on enemy damage reduction using the formula documented on the wiki

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Armor

Spoiler

And I've plotted the absolute difference between 0 CP and 1, 2 and 3 CP.

Spoiler

As you can see, 1 CP doesn't seem to make an enormous difference (only around 10% damage reduction difference max). I guess that's why I have to bring Akjagara Prime mod'd for armor stripping to solo T5 Cetus bounties in order to 1-2 shot level 60 drop ships with any of these snipers (Rubico Prime, Lanka, Vulkar Wraith) despite using CP.

[VotumPrime]

11 hours ago, Zekkii said:

If you bring a single corrosive projection, it will do next to nothing.  If you bring two, it will have a noticeable effect.  If you have three, it's strong.  If you have four, it's broken beyond all belief.

Problem is, do you trust your other three group members to bring it?  You know Energy Siphon is pretty good, and Steel Charge comes with four extra points on it and a decent melee boost against all factions.  I rarely see full squads with CP anyways.

Thoughts?

Honestly, I don’t find it necessary at all since it not only takes away armor but also the damage bonus that comes with it. Like for hunting eidolons for example. It’s weak against radiation cause of the type of armor it has, but once you have corrosive projection on with your whole squad, the damage bonuses disappear along with the armor.

Plus, most players can just one shot anything that’s under level 165. There’s no content where bringing corrosive projection is necessary.

[844448]

19 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Well, it only 2-shots them, but a Redeemer Prime with 100% status and Condition Overload, built for Rad/Viral, with Blood Rush/Gladiator set and any combo 2x or higher.

Not sure about oneshotting a 9999 Heavy Gunner, but it will 2-shot lvl 300+.

I've never gone far enough to see when it falls off, though.

So you lied about oneshot no matter the level :<

[-Krism-]

52 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Share build pls, I also want to oneshot Heavy Gunners even at level 9999 :3

This (& that's the weapon alone, no ability whatsoever to increase the damage):

44 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Well, it only 2-shots them, but a Redeemer Prime with 100% status and Condition Overload, built for Rad/Viral, with Blood Rush/Gladiator set and any combo 2x or higher.

Not sure about oneshotting a 9999 Heavy Gunner, but it will 2-shot lvl 300+.

I've never gone far enough to see when it falls off, though.

 

[Zekkii]

6 hours ago, Autongnosis said:

1 CP gives about +43% dmg. I'd say that's not "next to nothing" 

That's a pretty naive way to look at things.  You're still going to struggle immensely to kill armoured units without corrosive or bleed weaponry, in which case you get far less than what you've listed in terms of time to kill. 

[bibmobello]

1 hour ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Well, it only 2-shots them, but a Redeemer Prime with 100% status and Condition Overload, built for Rad/Viral, with Blood Rush/Gladiator set and any combo 2x or higher.

Not sure about oneshotting a 9999 Heavy Gunner, but it will 2-shot lvl 300+.

I've never gone far enough to see when it falls off, though.

At 2X maybe you can kill a level 300 bombard  with 2 shot if you are 20cm far away and you get an headshot, but it will be full of eximus at that level...

Try to one shot a level 155 demolist.

[Autongnosis]

il y a 4 minutes, Zekkii a dit :

That's a pretty naive way to look at things.  You're still going to struggle immensely to kill armoured units without corrosive or bleed weaponry, in which case you get far less than what you've listed in terms of time to kill. 

Not really, it's a simple math fact. 1 CO multiplies the initial damage by up to 43% and then slowly falls off till you strip, but it's still a force multiplier. 

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

2 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

At 2X maybe you can kill a level 300 bombard  with 2 shot if you are 20cm far away and you get an headshot, but it will be full of eximus at that level...

Try to one shot a level 155 demolist.

First of all, at 2x with both Blood Rush and some Gladiator set bonus, I get occasional orange crits. By 2.5x I get almost constant orange crits.

And yes, I have 2-shot (one-shot doesn't work because of how Condition Overload works, but the charge attack on Bullet Dance fires twice, so interpret it how you will) a level 160 demolyst in the Lua Disruption mission. I was at a 2.5x multiplier, but I did kill it with a single charge attack.

[nslay]

2 hours ago, nslay said:

And I've plotted the absolute difference between 0 CP and 1, 2 and 3 CP.

Using a bit of basic calculus, here are some surprisingly nice formulae as a function of armor remaining (1-armor reduction).

Spoiler

EDIT: And here's a plot of that

Spoiler

 

Edited September 14, 2019 by nslay

[bibmobello]

1 hour ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

First of all, at 2x with both Blood Rush and some Gladiator set bonus, I get occasional orange crits. By 2.5x I get almost constant orange crits.

And yes, I have 2-shot (one-shot doesn't work because of how Condition Overload works, but the charge attack on Bullet Dance fires twice, so interpret it how you will) a level 160 demolyst in the Lua Disruption mission. I was at a 2.5x multiplier, but I did kill it with a single charge attack.

I wrote 1 shoot...

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

10 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

I wrote 1 shoot...

If I press and hold the melee key once (charge attack), and it shoots twice, is that one attack or two?

Condition overload is the best damage scaling in this game, but can't work on the first attack.

If I hit an enemy with an attack that deals 0 damage, but imparts 5 statuses, and then hit it with a CO weapon and deal all of its eHP in a single attack, did I one-shot it?

If you want to have an argument, first define your terms.

[(PSN)CodyXSavageX]

Corrosive projection is just nice to have but I wouldn’t mod exclusively for it

[nslay]

Just now, (PS4)CodyXSavageX said:

Corrosive projection is just nice to have but I wouldn’t mod exclusively for it

Especially solo when it makes less than a 10% difference (at most!) in enemy damage reduction. Things don't even really get interesting until you're at 3 CPs with 2 CPs not making an enormous difference either (but more than 1 CP). For solo stuff, I'm just going to use the Speed Holster aura mod to pull out my armor stripping secondary faster.

[Zekkii]

24 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

I wrote 1 shoot...

If you really want to one shot any target, there's always covert lethality.  Stinging thorn even opens up enemies to finishers, although that's no longer a one shot since it takes a few stabs.