Was MR a mistake?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

I’ve been thinking. MR is required to gain access to new weapons and some frames. It’s kind of the prestige rank that shows how much you’ve progressed in the game. (I know I’m probably technically wrong about that but this isn’t the important part)

But, weapons and frames are required to increase MR. Meaning you can’t make unique weapons that are difficult to get like in other MMORPGs, because that means there’s now a significant barrier prevent the player from increasing their MR.

 So the question is. Is MR and it’s dependency on weapons and frames preventing there from being a proper endgame? Is weapons being required to be obtained relatively easily preventing there from being significant reworks like weapons and stuff that people usually go for in MMORPGs?

I could be wrong about this as I don’t play any MMORPGs, but I’m curious where this discussion goes.

[Walkampf]

There is not problem with MR, there is only a problem with people, like you, who don't understand what 'endgame' is.

You are talking about items, items aren't endgame, they are the reward of the endgame.

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

No.

[Lazarow]

Here is my opinon: Mastery rank is useless, while it shows that we have been playing a lot and dedicated some time to the game we get almost nothing in return. The barrier for weapons requiring specific mastery rank is stupid except for maybe prime, vandal, wraith and prisma weapons as they are a buff of the standard one and have all those improved weapons be at MR 6 or 8 so player can get access with some effort but not a lot needed. Mastery is missing a very important thing which is rewards, so I get from MR 10 to 11 and I only gotten more daily focus, void traces and mod capacity which is so little, we need something like cosmetics or something special to feel rewarding, something similar to what nigthwave ranks are but with mastery and greater rewards, some exlusive at gold ranks like syandana, operator cosmetic or something else fashion related on the gold ranks, hwile silver has stuff like boosters and some rare resources and on bronze have some rareresources, I dont know Im just throwing ideas but I am saying that mastery needs to give us mroe rewards so it is not pointless to rank up. At the current state mastery 16 and mastery 27 have the same things they could do as max riven restriction end at 16( I think) and after that it doesnt matter as void trace capacity and daily focus and mod cap arent a big deal, I am not saying add mroe restriction, I said that improved weapons like prime should be at MR 8 and not higher, the riven one is pointless there is no logic to that. Just give us mroe rewards

Edited September 28, 2019 by Lazarow

[Zekkii]

There's countless weapons that see zero use because they're intentionally weaker for low MR players.  Much of these aren't easily accessible, destroying their niche purpose.  In addition, gaining MR is repetitive and monotonous. 

Personally I don't find this necessary.  Progression is already fairly evident through mods, forma, and other systems.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

Okay, let's say they remove MR requirements to build things. Next, you'll be complaining that you can't craft everything using only Earth resources. 

Also, your question "Is MR and it’s dependency on weapons and frames preventing there from being a proper endgame? " makes literally no sense. 

[peterc3]

2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Is MR and it’s dependency on weapons and frames preventing there from being a proper endgame?

No.

2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Is weapons being required to be obtained relatively easily preventing there from being significant reworks like weapons and stuff that people usually go for in MMORPGs?

No.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

Okay, let's say they remove MR requirements to build things. Next, you'll be complaining that you can't craft everything using only Earth resources. 

Also, your question "Is MR and it’s dependency on weapons and frames preventing there from being a proper endgame? " makes literally no sense. 

Well I’m not saying remove MR completely, but it seems like every weapon is always obtained from the lvl 1-100 range because otherwise it’s unfair to certain players who don’t want to engage in higher level content but still want to reach MR 30. So maybe something like an MR rework. Or we wait and see how DE handles content after MR 30 is available.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 hours ago, Walkampf said:

There is not problem with MR, there is only a problem with people, like you, who don't understand what 'endgame' is.

You are talking about items, items aren't endgame, they are the reward of the endgame.

Hey man this is my first public opinion on endgame. I usually don’t go within 50 feet of those discussions. So don’t go lumping me in with the wrong people. But still. Endgame content needs good rewards. And without good rewards to motivate people to engage in endgame content well then nobody would play it because it’s just difficult content with nothing to achieve within it.

[Avienas]

3 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Hey man this is my first public opinion on endgame. I usually don’t go within 50 feet of those discussions. So don’t go lumping me in with the wrong people. But still. Endgame content needs good rewards. And without good rewards to motivate people to engage in endgame content well then nobody would play it because it’s just difficult content with nothing to achieve within it.

If i had to get into a comparison of other games to describe end game in other games its a mess in itself:

• One type of endgame for stuff like Final fantasy 11 & 14 was doing difficult content in order to obtain gear either specific to a job which provides powerful bonuses to that job or to get stronger gear with a higher ItemLevel Power level, with strong stats and a impressive design for it. Sadly this turns into the loop of as newer content comes out, you need to replace your gear with higher i-level gear, but you can still take older gear and turn it into fashion pieces, namely in the latter you could overlay gear over your regular gear, so you could make your char look like a maid while your swinging around a Great-Axe and what not.
• In games like Destiny, Endgame was the raids to obtain powerful gear that could have not only have very unique designs to that specific content, but could also have combinations of powerful modifiers and arrangement of stats to make them something that leads an impression. But of course you could have people just using more generic and easy to obtain legendary weapons (not the exotic ones) aka purples who have that combination of stat that make them work alot more useful such as a scout rifle or hand-cannon with the highest possible impact/range combination to have the quickest Time To Kill, especially in pvp content.

Overall, End-game and the chasing of higher progression needs to reward players in meaningful ways, whether its gaining access to fashion unlockables that declare you finished off something extremely difficult(In FF14`s case it was rare mounts you either got as a low drop rate from EXTREME version of special bosses usually being Primals/Fiends/etc. or literally cleared the fight 99 times as the pity reward, since riding around on those mystical horses, falcons and glowing wolves was a sign of respect/awe, especially if said bosses came out, even more so if you defeated the 7-ish bosses for that expansion to get the super special mount for unlocking all of them), powerful gear that could let you go as far to solo a final boss in said game which normally requires 8 people to clear or even get that marginal overall permanent stat improvement that lets you be more effective on various things, then just your skill compared to a player more new to the game. Because you DID the effort to reach that point and gain those rewards, you earned the right of such things.

This is kind of why i want warframe to take more approaches to rewarding players with effort, make them want to go longer on content for rewards that scale up to the difficulty and even out-pace said difficulty to entice people to stay longer. Make Mastery Rank give a reason to aim higher for it, Sort of like How Dauntless`s mastery level lets you enhance gear to higher levels, give permanent stat bonuses and better rates on obtaining loot and so on, not like warframe needs such things but it certainly would be nice if mastery level get a better impact then how dried out it becomes once you hit mastery rank 14 or so, where anyone can get any weapon at that point, with only frustrating rng-sus and vaulted gear to impede most of it.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Avienas

[FrostDragoon]

8 hours ago, Lazarow said:

Here is my opinon: Mastery rank is useless, while it shows that we have been playing a lot and dedicated some time to the game we get almost nothing in return. The barrier for weapons requiring specific mastery rank is stupid except for maybe prime, vandal, wraith and prisma weapons as they are a buff of the standard one and have all those improved weapons be at MR 6 or 8 so player can get access with some effort but not a lot needed. Mastery is missing a very important thing which is rewards, so I get from MR 10 to 11 and I only gotten more daily focus, void traces and mod capacity which is so little, we need something like cosmetics or something special to feel rewarding, something similar to what nigthwave ranks are but with mastery and greater rewards, some exlusive at gold ranks like syandana, operator cosmetic or something else fashion related on the gold ranks, hwile silver has stuff like boosters and some rare resources and on bronze have some rareresources, I dont know Im just throwing ideas but I am saying that mastery needs to give us mroe rewards so it is not pointless to rank up. At the current state mastery 16 and mastery 27 have the same things they could do as max riven restriction end at 16( I think) and after that it doesnt matter as void trace capacity and daily focus and mod cap arent a big deal, I am not saying add mroe restriction, I said that improved weapons like prime should be at MR 8 and not higher, the riven one is pointless there is no logic to that. Just give us mroe rewards

The main thing you actually get from it are mod capacity (which makes leveling gear MUCH easier due to the power it provides to unranked items) and standing cap limit increases (which make progressing through the factions MUCH faster since you get more done in fewer days). Everything else is just for show.

MR requirements on gear probably had some meaning a long time ago, but it's utterly pointless now. It used to be something to do with the power curve, but honestly, this game isn't balanced that way and likely never will be. Similarly, MR reqs on rivens are equally dumb. If anything, these requirements are one of those things people could rightly complain about with regard to splitting the player base, because rivens alone make a huge difference in potential power and ability to participate, so MR is one of the things responsible for causing so many players to feel frustrated in trying to "catch up" to the rest of the community at least in terms of being able to join in.

[Vox_Preliator]

While I do think it was a mistake in some ways and definitely has issues, I don't think it's responsible for or related to the lack of endgame.

[Ogundiety]

10 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I’ve been thinking. MR is required to gain access to new weapons and some frames. It’s kind of the prestige rank that shows how much you’ve progressed in the game. (I know I’m probably technically wrong about that but this isn’t the important part)

But, weapons and frames are required to increase MR. Meaning you can’t make unique weapons that are difficult to get like in other MMORPGs, because that means there’s now a significant barrier prevent the player from increasing their MR.

This is asserted, but I don't think it's true.  As it stands right now you can hit at the very least MR 24 without ever interacting with another player, getting a rare drop, getting anything vaulted, participating in any events, etc, etc, etc.  I am 100% confident in MR 24, but realistically assuming you actually do stuff like get the unvaulted frames when they come out, actually do SO, do the events, do nightwave, and possibly even (gasp!) buy prime parts from other players, hitting 27 isn't particularly challenging.  It's merely a time investment situation.

So the idea that it is required to keep everything available to everyone is honestly, not one that really holds water for me.  There will be a bit of gating when 28 is achievable (next year perhaps?), but the difference between 28 and 27 (and for that matter, 21 and 27) is incredibly minor, and not really worth getting any sort of stress about.  IF they put in enough conclave only weapons that still counted for MR, I might be tempted to do conclave, but I honestly probably wouldn't, and just let that pass me by- I am not far into 27 at this point so making a crazy push for 28 is not really on my to do list (I only started this year).  

That said, power increases are almost universally done via mods, not weapons themselves.  Any sort of tradable mod or arcane will have a reasonably rapid trickle-down effect to other players (blueprints might not since blueprints are not 'normally' tradable, though there are exceptions), though I'd personally be fine with blueprints being the reward and being possible to sell/trade.  I don't feel that this is in any way a limiter.

If you still feel that MR should be done away with, I don't super agree but I don't have a problem with the concept, it just your reasoning for making the case is pretty shaky.  

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

I don't think the two are related, but i do think MR is meaningless. 

 

[(NSW)ToadBlue]

I like MR for increasing my base mod capacity and daily standing cap, but that's all. One time I entered a mission and a new-ish player said to me "Wow you're MR20, you must be pretty strong"; and I felt a little bad because I'm still not really good at the game, didn't want someone to think I was just because of my MR, and I am still nowhere near the skill/gear level of the veterans who actually are pretty strong.

Edited September 29, 2019 by (NSW)ToadBlue

[Siegecraft]

high mr simply means u had time so u spend it buy ranking all wepones etc to lv 30  putting forma and spending all time in sedna or eso and nothing else

i know mr8/11 who have every mod  and most of the riven for the wepones   and r better in the game  i think a youtuber has showed a mr 1 player who has every thing that the game has to offer

Edited September 29, 2019 by Reakacemrz

[Steel_Rook]

On 2019-09-28 at 9:12 PM, Lazarow said:

Here is my opinon: Mastery rank is useless, while it shows that we have been playing a lot and dedicated some time to the game we get almost nothing in return.

Honestly, I'm of the opinion that there's already way too much tied up in Mastery Rank as it is. As a progression system, Mastery Rank sucks ass for the simple reason that you need to constantly regress in order to "progress" through it. You can't use "favourite" gear if you want progression, because MR Affinity is only gained from new items, meaning you have to keep levelling up newer and newer gear that you presumably like less and less given that you put it off for last. It's a frikkin' mess.

As an achievements/collections system, though, Mastery Rank does its job. It offer obvious, explicit player feedback for gathering and using items, and the player's Profile offers a nice "trophy wall" of sorts. When I first started out, I begrudgingly levelled weapons up trying to get to MR 12 so I could use the Supra, then to MR 14 so I could use the Supra Vandal. I then spent something over 500 hours sitting AT MR16 before I decided to just go through all of the times in the Market, which turned into all of the items in my dojo, and before I knew it I was sitting at MR 24 with mostly Primed weapons left to go.

Long story short, I'm of the opinion that no rewards, gameplay or progression should be gated behind Mastery Rank. It's a collector's paradise, there for its own sake. Maybe let players decorate their Orbiters and their Dojos with their mastered weapons, maybe gate a few cosmetics. But whatever you do, don't gate weapons, content or - worse - daily caps behind Mastery Rank.

[FrostDragoon]

The daily standing caps are the worst too.