Make the game harder.

[Joezone619]

1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

because right now the vast majority of enemies in Warframe are cookie-cutter and fail to bring any interesting mechanics to the table

exactly, plowing through hordes of enemies is fun, but gets boring fast without 1 or 2 challanging enemies for every group that says "no i wont be sliced like butter f--k you" and provides a challage rather it be a specific spot to shoot to kill them, an interesting resistance to abilities (not immunity), or interesting attacks, this is why i think eximus enemies are in heavy need of a rework.

[FrostDragoon]

Too much of this topic is just people who have been playing forever taking for granted that most players under about MR 12 or so still struggle with a lot of content in this game.

[SayikVindal]

Stalker type NPC that spawns in missions, targets only you, and scales to your level and build. One that is a copy of your warframe but 5 levels higher.

Perhaps after war within. Kill 20 and two spawn. 40 and 3 spawn. 60 and 4 spawn. Drops high level loot only for you. NPCs are immune to Warframe abilities.

Power creep is a serious problem in this game when coupled with a poor leveling process. The game is FAR too difficult for solo players and you basically hit a wall at Uranus. At the same time it is far too easy for max players. They should actually scale DOWN difficulty IMO up to Pluto and instead introduce deadly mobs that spawn for high level players.

[Xzorn]

5 hours ago, woggs123 said:

I don't remember where but I read once that Warframe's enemy AI is artificially limited so there's hardly a moment when every single enemy spawned is taking aggressive action. I'd love to see a game mode where none of the enemy stats are buffed, just their AI being taken off the leash. Maybe scatter some environmental hazards around too. I agree that a lot of the content gets too easy to cheese but I don't want to see heavy gunners and bombards with even more armor, I'd rather have to fight an enemy that never lets up their assault.

 

The AI's shooting has a rotational limit. It was done for performance reasons if I recall. Only a certain number of enemies of a certain type can shoot simultaneously. It's most notable with Bombards and Nullifiers. Only one of each enemy type can fire at once though having two on the screen removes their need to reload so two is still more dangerous. In case of Bombards having more than 2 will still increase damage intake due to travel time but there's no difference between 2 and 40 Nullifiers.

[FrostDragoon]

5 hours ago, SayikVindal said:

Stalker type NPC that spawns in missions, targets only you, and scales to your level and build. One that is a copy of your warframe but 5 levels higher.

Perhaps after war within. Kill 20 and two spawn. 40 and 3 spawn. 60 and 4 spawn. Drops high level loot only for you. NPCs are immune to Warframe abilities.

Power creep is a serious problem in this game when coupled with a poor leveling process. The game is FAR too difficult for solo players and you basically hit a wall at Uranus. At the same time it is far too easy for max players. They should actually scale DOWN difficulty IMO up to Pluto and instead introduce deadly mobs that spawn for high level players.

This is a horrible suggestion, lmao. Power immunity is one of the worst ideas this game has ever seen and there are a bunch of threads to that point.

[George_PPS]

You can equip just 7 or even no Mods in all loadouts to make the game “harder” 

[SayikVindal]

17 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

This is a horrible suggestion, lmao. Power immunity is one of the worst ideas this game has ever seen and there are a bunch of threads to that point.

Fair enough, but as a response to the OP I still think it has merit.

[Xzorn]

7 hours ago, George_PPS said:

You can equip just 7 or even no Mods in all loadouts to make the game “harder” 

 

Heh, not really. I've done Sorties with no mods on as a mockery. It's slower but still gets done.
I do elemental resist sorties with pure elemental weapons. Just purposely everything wrong.
You just can't fail in this game if you know what you're doing.

[Joezone619]

i cant remember if it was this year or late last year, but DE said total missions failed in a month was average at less then 5% or something

[FrostDragoon]

19 minutes ago, Joezone619 said:

i cant remember if it was this year or late last year, but DE said total missions failed in a month was average at less then 5% or something

I know mine is close to 1%. However, I don't want them to design around enforcing a 10% fail rate. This flawed reasoning is why matchmaking is such sh*t in competitive games with their overly micromanaged "ELO" systems--especially with regard to team games where they are "balancing" them by using average MMR instead of only matching people who are actually close to each other. Trying to apply that idiocy here would piss off most of the players for the same reason it does in those competitive games--it makes it feel like it doesn't matter if you are any good, or how good you may be, "You WILL have a 10% fail rate, because... reasons?"

[Xzorn]

1 hour ago, Joezone619 said:

i cant remember if it was this year or late last year, but DE said total missions failed in a month was average at less then 5% or something

 

I'm surprised it's even that high.

Mine is 0.5% and most of my Mission Fails were back in 2013-14 when the game was much harder.

Keep in mind I'm also an ex-Endurance runner. Most of my game time over 5 years has been against lvl 300+ enemies.
I have no idea how people are failing "normal" content. Pub Sorties Spy or something dumb like that I guess.
This game is pretty near impossible to fail and I question if a game you can't lose even qualifies as a game.

[FrostDragoon]

32 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Mine is 0.5% and most of my Mission Fails were back in 2013-14 when the game was much harder.

Most of mine were to d/c and host migration glitches.

[Xzorn]

1 hour ago, FrostDragoon said:

Most of mine were to d/c and host migration glitches.

 

Point is the game has been way too easier for far too long.
The game needs an elective difficulty system. I might have a 0.5% fail rate for over 6 years but there's days when I wana push and day when I just wana be lazy. That's why MMOs have always been my fav game genre. I can generally pick how much attention I want to put into the game at that time. I can PvP or sit around crafting. Warframe is just set on easy permanently and having no self-sustaining content makes it even worse. I blew through Fortuna / PoE in a week each and there's no reason to go back.

I'm the type who starts a game on hard difficulty even if I don't know how hard it will be because I know it will at least get me more play time.

[FrostDragoon]

The problem is that DE is stuck in a catch-22 about how to increase difficulty in a way that will actually make people happy. If they inflate enemy stats, we just cheese them with mechanics. If they add mechanics that cheese back, we find them boring or counter to the design of having frames to begin with. How else do you expect them to go about it? I've made a few suggestions myself, but you have to recognize how complex the problem actually is.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

I'd like at least a way to fight against lvl 150+ mobs from the beginning of the mission would be something I'd play. make it "cost" something so that you'll still play usual content and carry other players.

then they should really try to "balance" the game before trying to add difficult content.

[FrostDragoon]

23 minutes ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

I'd like at least a way to fight against lvl 150+ mobs from the beginning of the mission would be something I'd play. make it "cost" something so that you'll still play usual content and carry other players.

then they should really try to "balance" the game before trying to add difficult content.

One of the threads I've made with a suggestion to this effect--and others have too--is a type of NG+ of sorts where the nodes all start 80-100 levels higher than their base counterparts on the star chart. From there it's just a matter of deciding what kinds of rewards belong in that mode.

[Xzorn]

DE acknowledged players going higher in level than they expected in 2014. That was literally their answer to a question about "Why do lvl 100 enemies one-shot me?". This was when Damage 2.0 was new and it wasn't nearly a complex problem. They knew players can push their game hard.

Instead of fixing flaws in the system Players and DE have been doing this play tactic and counter play tactic game for the past 5 years until at this point the game play is just bad and fairly boring. They've made sure any rewarding content is only within a sealed box where most the enemies no longer follow the rules of the game because the rules never worked right in the first place.

Like I said previously. Level is just a measurement. If players were going off the scale at the very start then what did DE expect from that point? Of course the reason we could go beyond their expectations was CC which they've flogged over and over until it's now relatively pointless unless you're doing that now lvl 300+ content which isn't rewarding at all and it's very much on purpose.

[(XBOX)BlueDually]

As someone still new to the game, the difficulty isn't too easy or too hard. I just learned shooting Nox in the face was the quick way to down him in this thread. And depending on what Warframe I was using and what missions I was doing the Zealots were either run away or just smack them down with little thought.

Turning enemies into bullet and ability sponges makes the game more difficult, but doesn't make it more challenging. Having the AI use better tactics with a little buffing would make the game both more difficult and challenging.

The problem is when you play a game for so long no matter what changes are made to the game it will become easy after a certain amount of play time. Considering how long some people have been playing the game anything short of a complete game mechanic overhaul will not offer a challenge or higher difficulty for long.

[Flying_Scorpion]

15 hours ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

I'd like at least a way to fight against lvl 150+ mobs from the beginning of the mission would be something I'd play. make it "cost" something so that you'll still play usual content and carry other players.

then they should really try to "balance" the game before trying to add difficult content.

I like this idea. And yes, Warframe is too easy. I'm at a 2% failure rate (most of it is probably sortie spy missions) and I would like it to be 10%. 

Edited October 13, 2019 by Flying_Scorpion

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

to detail my point of view :

As a "quick fix" before real rebalance

• add lvl 150+ mission on all starchart
• rewards : 400 endo, 10k credits, low chances for universal medallion and relics etc (not sure about relics types, axi ?).
• make those missions accessible throught some farming
  • just to avoid high MR players leaving completely low level missions, how you actually farm relics are a good idea of the intent : you still need lith to craft stuff

 

Then they should take time for some rebalance

[Kimimoto]

On 2019-10-09 at 12:04 AM, DrivaMain said:

massive backlash from the casuals (FYI they are the majority of Warframe's playerbase right now). 

Here's what you do with that....
The answer is nothing, let them be mad. Just like everyone else, they won't leave. They'll just *@##$ about it for a week and then git gud. Everytime a game company has catered to the casual community of their game, the game 100% suffers. 

[Loza03]

The enemies are fine. It's the players who are the problem.

 

Warframe ability design breaks tons of rules and lets players infinitely ignore engaging with enemies, or turn off interaction whenever they want. We have Invisibility which can be turned on forever, we have CC that turns off AI and at lower levels (and for a few builds, even higher levels) we even have the ability to kill, very efficiently, with 0 interaction with enemies.

There isn't a way to actually make that hard. As long as player power peaks so wildly, there is no way to make the game hard. Increasing levels will punish anyone not using these strategies and barely touch anyone who does.

[FrostDragoon]

20 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

There isn't a way to actually make that hard. As long as player power peaks so wildly, there is no way to make the game hard. Increasing levels will punish anyone not using these strategies and barely touch anyone who does.

While I mostly agree with you, what higher levels does is let you push your weapons further since some weapons don't have anything in normal gameplay that can withstand them even a little bit. The problem is that people think "difficulty" is the point of the game. I disagree. I think it's much more about trying different things out. It's sort of like a sandbox game, except it has some amount of direction to it.

[Samhel]

They need a new function the enemy ai scales with and then release difficulty modes in every mission with different and worthy rewards. That would be the easiest way.

[Flying_Scorpion]

3 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

While I mostly agree with you, what higher levels does is let you push your weapons further since some weapons don't have anything in normal gameplay that can withstand them even a little bit. The problem is that people think "difficulty" is the point of the game. I disagree. I think it's much more about trying different things out. It's sort of like a sandbox game, except it has some amount of direction to it.

I agree with this. I have a build that is overkill for everything on the star chart. Only after an hour of survival against Grineer in arbitrations does the build *begin* to shine. It's like having a really fast car, but the only place I can drive it is an hour away, and I can only go there once in awhile if I'm lucky. 😞

 

So there are benefits of having even higher level enemies, because it gives us opportunities to utilize our most powerful tools. Right now, it's like we're in a sandbox with only 6 inches of sand; most players are using hand shovels and some of them have full sized shovels that they're carrying around but the sand isn't even deep enough to use them. 

Edited October 13, 2019 by Flying_Scorpion