Catchmoon is being nerfed...

[Ninjiii]

What's all this big issue about...the game has been broken since the point, when weapon crafting started to require MR. The idea in general is good, but why MR14 is max you need to craft anything if there are 30 Mastery ranks in total??? Push end game weapons to 20-30 MR and done. Same story for Catchmoon, make it no less than MR15 and majority of the problem is sorted (a bit late perhaps, since you only need MR to craft not to use). It's easy to craft it (only takes 1h) and any new player can use it, ofc everyone will !!!  Removing Rivens from Kitguns? not a bad idea, but that means Zaws shouldn't have any either, but i personally don't mind such change. Or maybe add a new feature for End game or any items, that requires certain MR to use the item, not just to craft.

[Ninjiii]

1 hour ago, Aldain said:

Wow...that ramps up at an alarming rate the difference between 10 and 14 MR is almost 20%, and by 20 it is just about 3.5 times higher.

A lot of rubbish! Firstly...without an actual amount of players in these Mastery ranks it makes no sense. Secondly...even an idiot or noob will use weaker weapon at high MR, therefore it's absolutely obvious high MR players will stick to the best stuff, which will most likely vary a little and as a result people will use the same weapon. Thirdly...it's DE fault MR is needed for crafting only, but not for using the item, that's why simply lifting MR requirement will not fix the issue, cos it's too late. Fourthly...don't make things worse, make challenges harder by adding new content. Constantly nerfing things because people are too strong will get the game on the edge of boredom

[--K--Sharkfin]

The other kitguns are worse than garbage without dedicated mods and arcane, this is why catchmoon is popular... easy to build and easy to use. I don't see why instead of making other kitguns more forgiving and useful, decided to nerf the most popular kitgun dramatically.  There's something wrong if you decided to nerf something based on the popularity. It's like saying "Oh we need to nerf shraksun scaffold because if you don't use that to hunt eidolon, you're doing it wrong" 

Edited October 28, 2019 by SHArK-FiN

[Nephalem]

5 hours ago, SHArK-FiN said:

The other kitguns are worse than garbage without dedicated mods and arcane, this is why catchmoon is popular... easy to build and easy to use. I don't see why instead of making other kitguns more forgiving and useful, decided to nerf the most popular kitgun dramatically.  There's something wrong if you decided to nerf something based on the popularity. It's like saying "Oh we need to nerf shraksun scaffold because if you don't use that to hunt eidolon, you're doing it wrong" 

The nerf is fairly needed. Having a pistol that has 50% usage from 100 and something is rather alarming and not good. Obv there will always be a weapon that will replace the catchmoon in some way but not in a way this one did.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Nephalem

[0_The_F00l]

I don't see the issue with understanding. 

It will do 100% damage at less than 8m

It will do 10% damage after 16m. 

[Vay_Kek]

В 27.10.2019 в 05:18, (XB1)Th3BelovedSaint сказал:

Oh, I dont know, maybe because people just like it? Maybe it makes the game fun for them? Maybe some people just leave it equipped and dont use it? This is where have a real Data Analyst on the DE payroll might keep them from making a lot of their paying players mad for a stupid, knee-jerk reaction to a number on a spreadsheet.

Oh, I dont know, maybe people just "liked" catchmoon because it was obliterating high-level mobs better then some meta primary weapons even without formas, effectively trivializing already trivial gameplay? And well, you do realize that catchmoon nerf was just one of many topics on prime time, so there was simply no time to show more than that spreadsheet, but it doesnt mean that decision was made solely based on it. And frankly, all you are trying to say is that in the game with about 100 secondary weapons with unique mechanics and flavors, there is one specific weapon that is used by half of players just because "IT'S FUN"? Like, really? I don't buy it. So stop being a crybaby and pretend you know better what's good for the game.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Vay_Kek

[SneakyErvin]

18 hours ago, HolySeraphin said:

Actually, from the Prime Time the numbers are:

MR 10: 7.53%

MR 11: 10.17%

MR 12: 16.34%

MR 13: 19.35%

MR 14: 25.22% (This means that it is very likely to find at least 1 person using Catchmoon in a full squad at this MR range)

MR: 15: 29.96%

MR 16: 36.12%

MR 17: 37.50%

MR 20: 40%

MR 27: 51%

So yeah, too many people were using it, even at medium MRs. Just for you to have a comparison, Tombfinger (a great secondary) is in second place, with 2.46% usage at MR 12 and around 5% at MR27

Most MR 12-16 are still farming items, weapons and prime equipment, therefore they're not doing 2h survivals and the like, they're doing lvl30-40 missions with the occasional hard mission like the Fortuna spider fights.

The problem is that all of those numbers are just shown in a vacuum.

If they maybe produced population numbers within each MR rank aswell as maybe an activity percentage for each MR tied to arbitrations the number might have actually told us something concrete.

[Arkennstar]

12 hours ago, SHArK-FiN said:

The other kitguns are worse than garbage without dedicated mods and arcane, this is why catchmoon is popular... easy to build and easy to use. I don't see why instead of making other kitguns more forgiving and useful, decided to nerf the most popular kitgun dramatically.  There's something wrong if you decided to nerf something based on the popularity. It's like saying "Oh we need to nerf shraksun scaffold because if you don't use that to hunt eidolon, you're doing it wrong" 

Lmao.. Catchmoon isnt popular because the rest are garbage.. the rest are fine.. amazing even.. catchmoon is just popular because it requires absolutely no effort or aim to use. Just firing it blindly down a hallway clears it. The other kitguns require some aim AND this game encourages guns that can obliterate swarms.

So catchmoon is popular because it checks off two big tickboxes for weapon popularity in WF : Doesnt require aiming and can clear crowds.

[(PSN)WeWillNotWin]

Probably no secret, Acceltra takes less aim than Catchmoon.  Guessing it's not getting nerf hammer because 1. It is new and 2. Rivens are still traded actively.

[-AncientWarrior-]

lol DE's endgame after they nerf everything is a Mining and Fishing game..

[(PSN)WeWillNotWin]

A popular saying when I used to play Destiny was that Bungie wanted people to "play their way".  Understandable they nerfed the gun, but give players the choice of using the overpowered weapon or something else if they wanted the challenge.  For me, I enjoy feeling overpowered somtimes like I did when I had Ghajerhorn and the original Vex Mytocast before all the nerfs.  I think there are many other "overpowered" weapons that folks will just gravitate toward.  IF DE continues to nerf based on usage (which Bungie did), then I think it's more concerning.

[ZenHare]

On 2019-10-27 at 4:30 AM, LuceusW said:

OK ty so now catchmoon really is complete garbage thx to DE

If you are a tank frame and can survive running real close to packs in Arbitration, then this is really only a sight inconvenience. Feel free to laugh in the devs' faces. Sucks for the few caster frame active there.

[844448]

On 2019-10-27 at 5:35 AM, (XB1)Th3BelovedSaint said:

They have problems galore in the game like door glitches, pickup glitches, host disconnects that rob you of all things gained in a tridolon hunt.

As a PC player with excellent 4G internet, I never have this problem so perhaps it's your internet or the host's internet

[--K--Sharkfin]

3 hours ago, ZenHare said:

If you are a tank frame and can survive running real close to packs in Arbitration, then this is really only a sight inconvenience. Feel free to laugh in the devs' faces. Sucks for the few caster frame active there.

Guess I would use catchmoon only for index after the nerf

Edited October 29, 2019 by SHArK-FiN

[-HoB-AngelofRevenge]

On 2019-10-25 at 1:49 AM, Plagha said:

it is well known that DE does not know how to interpret the data. If players use a lot of "SOMETHING"... they think: "Oh! There's something wrong with it, let's go nerf it", instead of thinking, "Why do people use the catchmoon instead of the Seer?"...

I can ask DE same thing. why ppl use something instead of something else? I think that DE has lack of idea how to deal with something. I think that this is 2nd or 3rd time nefr for this weapon. So if  something is good lets fck it up approach is kind of standard for DE.

 

[Nocontents]

Don't try to justify catchmoon by saying that was "fun". We all know everbody used that because of dmg. At least say that you're annoyed because your investment of time and effort wasted.

[Mr.Fluffins]

On 2019-10-28 at 2:32 AM, HolySeraphin said:

Most MR 12-16 are still farming items, weapons and prime equipment, therefore they're not doing 2h survivals and the like, they're doing lvl30-40 missions with the occasional hard mission like the Fortuna spider fights.

But catchmoon was kind of trash for long endurance runs, just like arca plasmor. Tombfinger does WAY better against high level enemies (there is a certain breakpoint in enemy scaling after which catchmoon and arca become almost useless).

As far as I know (never used catchmoon), it was very good for clearing hordes of weaker enemies, but wasn't that good in long arbitration runs (except drone killing).

[vegetosayajin]

On 2019-10-27 at 10:21 AM, GnarlsDarkley said:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Damage_Falloff

tl;dr:

Catchmoon deals way  less damage beginning 8 meters instead of 20 meters and hits its lowest damage at 16 meters distance instead of 30 meters

right answer

if they don't roll it back a little it will be useless

[ShortCat]

15 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

The problem is that all of those numbers are just shown in a vacuum.

If they maybe produced population numbers within each MR rank aswell as maybe an activity percentage for each MR tied to arbitrations the number might have actually told us something concrete.

Those numbers are pretty selfexplanatory. They tell, that an MR X player will have Catchmoon in his loadout during a mission with Y probability.
"Population numbers" are absolutely irrelevant, because whether there are 100 MR27 players, or 100k - half of them are using Catchmoon. The same correlation remains valid for other controll groups (here MR). If you want to break it down to specific missions, those results would be even more alarming, as from my experience in Arbitration, I can tell that the likelyhood of a player having Catchmoon, at any MR, is extremely high. Then there is an obvious trend as well as huge descripance between 1st and 2nd item.

[Fl_3]

It'll still have the ability to shoot Arbitration drones through the bodies of all the other mobs so all is fine. It's am energy shotgun pistol, not a sniper rifle.

[C104]

Am 28.10.2019 um 01:18 schrieb HolySeraphin:

Rebecca said that Melee 2.9 is the their start at balancing the game, especially the damage, so it is nice to see it finally happen. Weapon damage is currently too high, which in turn forces veterans to spend over 2 hours to start getting some challenge, instead of getting  a decent difficulty at 40min mark. People asking for lvl500 missions is quite dumb, in my opinion, when DE can nerf weapons so you get the same challenge at lvl 150-200 without getting one-hit killed by a Heavy Gunner. Most modes (except disruption) don't give us extra rewards for staying 4h+ anyway. The closest is fissure missions, but they're still on a small loop.

The difference is that it wouldn't feel so scummy and bad that all your hard work is lost

[C104]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Mr.Fluffins:

But catchmoon was kind of trash for long endurance runs, just like arca plasmor. Tombfinger does WAY better against high level enemies (there is a certain breakpoint in enemy scaling after which catchmoon and arca become almost useless).

As far as I know (never used catchmoon), it was very good for clearing hordes of weaker enemies, but wasn't that good in long arbitration runs (except drone killing).

The only reason is drone killing.

I instakill the enemies with warframe abilities so you need the catchmoon. The reason why it is used at high mr a lot is simply because there is only one "endgame" mission (arbi)

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, ShortCat said:

Those numbers are pretty selfexplanatory. They tell, that an MR X player will have Catchmoon in his loadout during a mission with Y probability.
"Population numbers" are absolutely irrelevant, because whether there are 100 MR27 players, or 100k - half of them are using Catchmoon. The same correlation remains valid for other controll groups (here MR). If you want to break it down to specific missions, those results would be even more alarming, as from my experience in Arbitration, I can tell that the likelyhood of a player having Catchmoon, at any MR, is extremely high. Then there is an obvious trend as well as huge descripance between 1st and 2nd item.

Exactly why there should be more numbers presented (and looked at) than just X amount of players use this gun, which doesnt tell you why they use this gun.

I and probably many like me just have it equipped since we use it in Arbitrations, because it is an upgraded version of a mid-MR Arca or Fulmin. Those same people likely also do like me and use it little elsewhere while still having it equipped. Outside of arbis I tend to just mow things down with my melee or frame powers. And even in arbis it is used for one single thing alone, killing drones.

So the numbers atm are quite pointless unless you think the percentage usage of an item should warrant nerfs, which in itself is a massively silly approach towards balance.

The numbers we see with catchmoon is because it is one of 6, well more like 5 weapons that solve the drone problem quickly. Arbitrations have also become a very popular mode for several reasons, so obviously weapons best suited for that mode will see a massive increase in use oover others. If arbitrations suddenly came down to having single target needed, then we'd see a massive increase for other weapons, though there would be a lower percentage for the top #1 since there are just that many more viable single target weapons out there to pick from, instead of being pigeonholed into around 6.

All that this change will do is have people move to the most userfriendly second option for killing drones, which likely ends up on Arca as things are looking currently. If they had actually balanced Catchmoon according to where it should be and how weapons with falloff have been treated previously it would have still been the #1 since it would have still been the best drone solution out there out of 6 different weapons. Now instead they overnerfed it to say the least.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

The Catchmoon isn't my most powerful secondary, the Tombfinger is (I even have a riven for it), and I took that to kill off Mr. Wolfy when he came around to ruin my day. The catchmoon is a purely functional weapon that "feels good" to use. It clears trash easy, but falls off in usefulness for stuff that I then use my Rubico Prime to one-shot... while I melee my way through 99% of the rest of the game.

The nerf effectively removes my reason to use the Catchmoon at all, because it's essentially a melee range gun now. I already have melee...

This is like the Destiny1 Mida Multitool all over again... nerfing something that didn't need to be nerfed, due to popular use (Mida's claim to fame: It let you still see the enemy radar while aiming down sights ... wooo...)

Prior to the Kitgun days, I used the Cycron to have a weapon with infinite ammo to bring along, "just in case" I needed some ranged attack in a drawn out battle. I'll likely go back to that... because I really dislike the Tombfinger... or I'll stick with the Catchmoon just to mess with their stat number junk)

Edited October 29, 2019 by (PS4)AyinDygra
clarified the perk of the mida

[ShortCat]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I and probably many like me just have it equipped since we use it in Arbitrations, because it is an upgraded version of a mid-MR Arca or Fulmin.

There you have your answer. Case closed.