SneakyErvin Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 5 hours ago, RS219 said: Are you kidding me? Do you know how you sounded there? "Let's not mention at all about the past and ongoing atrocities of New Nazi Germany at all, guys, even if they're planning to take over our brands/games/media! The Neo-Nazis are feeling uncomfortable and attacked over "baseless claims"! Hurrah for the moderators now working indirectly for the Fourth Reich removing all this unnecessary garbage!" This brand of complacent denialism is exactly what the CCP would love to see in international grounds, it only lets them spread their tentacles faster. Let it be talked about, NOT immediately suppressed if so much as a pip is let out. At the same time, don't let it fly into an online riot, of course. But point is that from the obvious strangulation of these terms it's clear that the CCP wants its atrocities buried and swept under the increasingly bulging rug. I mean, unless you ARE a citizen of China and need to watch what you're saying... Games have never been platforms for political discussions. If someone decides to discuss politics in games then be prepared to get moderated/chat banned/suspended etc. This isnt about what opinion you support or not, it is simply about discussing politics in general in a game. I bet your next thought here will be "oh but free speech says!", which matters squat diddly because free speech is different all across the world and it doesnt even imply what 99% of americans think that their free speech means. So if you think that you are as politically engaged and aware as youclaim, then get the #*!% out there and do something instead of *@##$ing about a silly chat in a game. A chat that will mean S#&$ in the end if you wanna change something. The only thing rambling in a chat does is break the ToS/EULA of a game, and maybe upset someone trying to just blow of steam from a life that may be about politics on an everyday basis. I have zero problems with politics and other topics being raised in the right forums or on the right platforms. Games just arent one of those. So take your political bible thumping elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Tyberos. Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Next week at warframe forum drama section. "Do you guys think that Warframe will be a Epic store exclusive?!?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)ChaosTheNerd Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Well, that was an interesting read... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Ozymandias-13- Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 The rumor is worrisome, but honestly until anything is officially announced it's not even worth thinking about. And we literally have no say in what happens either way. They sell, then I wait and see what happens. If it goes badly I leave. It sucks, but it's pretty simple. In an ideal world we wouldn't have to worry about Chinese government owned tech companies taking over and adding micro transactions to everything, but what can you do? Spoiler #imwithhongkong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade343 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 2019-10-28 at 8:32 AM, SneakyErvin said: So if you think that you are as politically engaged and aware as youclaim, then get the #*!% out there and do something instead of *@##$ing about a silly chat in a game. You can always do both. Nobody said they were mutually exclusive, and I never understood why do people think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, Renegade343 said: You can always do both. Nobody said they were mutually exclusive, and I never understood why do people think it is. They are mutually exclusive if you wanna see actual change. Game chats are supposed to be for everyone, hence why politics and religion have no place in them since you never know who may get offended. A gaming community should be about the hobby, the love (or hate (or both)) for the game we play. It is something to take away stress from actual everyday life, everyday life that may be very heavy on politics or religion to begin with. People shouldnt have to think about that stress during a hobby activity just because some ass wipes decide to bring it up just to pat themselves on the back while achieving jack and squat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade343 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said: They are mutually exclusive if you wanna see actual change. Then you can go out to protest during most of the day, come back home to rest a bit with gaming and talking about your politics and protests, rinse and repeat. Going off to relax a bit while going for actual change doesn't invalidate your actions for achieving towards actual change. Hell, I actually took some time to participate in protests, learn more about its situation and so on, and I also game here, but me taking some time off to game doesn't cancel out what I've done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 26 minutes ago, Renegade343 said: Then you can go out to protest during most of the day, come back home to rest a bit with gaming and talking about your politics and protests, rinse and repeat. Going off to relax a bit while going for actual change doesn't invalidate your actions for achieving towards actual change. Hell, I actually took some time to participate in protests, learn more about its situation and so on, and I also game here, but me taking some time off to game doesn't cancel out what I've done. But that is the thing, it isnt fine to start discussing your politics and protests in a game. The games have rules to safeguard against exactly that. If you decide to break the rules and you have action taken against you because of it, it isnt because the company or game has a specific political view, it is because the company or game wants to avoid parts of the community getting impacted in a negative way. One rotten egg shouldnt spoil the fun for the rest of the community, so those rule breakers get moderated rightfully. I hope you realize that any world spanning game has more political views, religious philosofies or cultural differences than any single country on this earth. The games are supposed to be a free space for everyone in the community where real life is left at the door. Unless of course the game does have dedicated optional chats or forums for politcal, religious or cultural debates/discussions. We dont have that here, nor do most games, so when someone opens their "mouth" with a political opinion they are breaking the rules presented to them as they entered the game i.e ToS/EULA. It is all OK if you are active politically and also love gaming and use it as a stress relief, it is however not OK to bring your political opinions into the game, especially not in public chats. People play to get away from those things while you (the general meaning of you, not you specifically) force it down their throat with your chat messages. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade343 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said: But that is the thing, it isnt fine to start discussing your politics and protests in a game. The games have rules to safeguard against exactly that. It always implies for public chat, so, say, talking about it in private, clan, or alliance chat can be fine. 6 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said: I hope you realize that any world spanning game has more political views, religious philosofies or cultural differences than any single country on this earth. The games are supposed to be a free space for everyone in the community where real life is left at the door. Yes to the first sentence, kind of '...eeehhh' to the second, because reality is messy and things like to leak into each other. I mean, just simply talking about your culture, such as food, could be an example of real life leaking into games, yet we generally don't mind that. 9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said: It is all OK if you are active politically and also love gaming and use it as a stress relief, it is however not OK to bring your political opinions into the game, especially not in public chats. Also '...eeehhh' to that. Again, there's such things as private, clan, alliance chats, and it could be alright to bring your political opinions into it, depending on the person/community. Going with a blanket 'not OK to bring your political opinions into the game' is rather overgeneralizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Renegade343 said: It always implies for public chat, so, say, talking about it in private, clan, or alliance chat can be fine. Yes to the first sentence, kind of '...eeehhh' to the second, because reality is messy and things like to leak into each other. I mean, just simply talking about your culture, such as food, could be an example of real life leaking into games, yet we generally don't mind that. Also '...eeehhh' to that. Again, there's such things as private, clan, alliance chats, and it could be alright to bring your political opinions into it, depending on the person/community. Going with a blanket 'not OK to bring your political opinions into the game' is rather overgeneralizing. Well I thought it was obvious that this was about public chats. Whatever goes on in private chats is up to the individual moderator of said chat. And food is a completely different subject, that isnt really the part of culture I'm refering to. The culture part I'm refering to is the one that does something out of tradition that isnt necessary tied to politics or religion but is still questionable and can lead to offending others or getting offended themselves by what others express, like subjects regarding sex. As I said in the part you quoted "especially not in public chats". That means you can bring it into an alliance or guild chat, but you should also abide by the rules set up by those mods. If they dont want it in their chat you should respect that since you are a guest or agreed upon it on entry. If you continue and they kick you or mute you, then you shouldnt get upset cos you obviously broke the rules of said chat. Most people are however angry that some people have gotten muffled or had other more severe actions taken against them in other games, where the offenders have rambled their political opinion in public chats or forums or on channels supported by a company that has clearly stated "no political opinions shall be expressed here". They broke obvious rules and faced the consequences of those actions. That isnt the company's fault. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade343 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said: As I said in the part you quoted "especially not in public chats". That means you can bring it into an alliance or guild chat, but you should also abide by the rules set up by those mods. If they dont want it in their chat you should respect that since you are a guest or agreed upon it on entry. If you continue and they kick you or mute you, then you shouldnt get upset cos you obviously broke the rules of said chat. You see, when you wrote 'it is however not OK to bring your political opinions into the game, especially not in public chats.', this gives me the impression that you think bringing your political opinions into this game is a no-no whatsoever, even more so of a no-no in public chats. And as what you wrote, private/clan/alliance chats can range from alright to 'not OK' regarding bringing your political opinions in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olphalarepth Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) On 2019-10-28 at 1:32 PM, SneakyErvin said: Games have never been platforms for political discussions. If someone decides to discuss politics in games then be prepared to get moderated/chat banned/suspended etc. This isnt about what opinion you support or not, it is simply about discussing politics in general in a game. I bet your next thought here will be "oh but free speech says!", which matters squat diddly because free speech is different all across the world and it doesnt even imply what 99% of americans think that their free speech means. So if you think that you are as politically engaged and aware as youclaim, then get the #*!% out there and do something instead of *@##$ing about a silly chat in a game. A chat that will mean S#&$ in the end if you wanna change something. The only thing rambling in a chat does is break the ToS/EULA of a game, and maybe upset someone trying to just blow of steam from a life that may be about politics on an everyday basis. I have zero problems with politics and other topics being raised in the right forums or on the right platforms. Games just arent one of those. So take your political bible thumping elsewhere. Absolutely wrong. I've played many mmorpg in my life and politic has never been a taboo as in TOS it is clearly stated to simply avoid being rude and using insults. This trend of people getting triggered by everything is just a sad excuse that is exploited because it is too convenient of a pretest to let go. What do you expect of "politically aware" people to do? If you don't want/can't handle them just ignore them like you do for ALL the people posting utterly idiotic things on general chat and then complain that it has become an intellectual cloaca (no kidding, Sherlock!). Games are not traditionally political platforms, true, but times have already changed, not changing, CHANGED and some governments do not shy away from using their tentacles to brainwash and censure even in those places where you're supposed to be "safe". Edited October 30, 2019 by Olphalarepth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Renegade343 said: You see, when you wrote 'it is however not OK to bring your political opinions into the game, especially not in public chats.', this gives me the impression that you think bringing your political opinions into this game is a no-no whatsoever, even more so of a no-no in public chats. And as what you wrote, private/clan/alliance chats can range from alright to 'not OK' regarding bringing your political opinions in. I should have probably worded it better. Something like "dont expect it to be OK to bring your political opinions into the game, especially not in public chats". And a person should have enough respect for others to not open their mouth regarding politics and such in games before they know if it is OK for the chat they are in. I would not start discussing those subjects in a clan or alliance chat unless I know it's OK to begin with, because they are still public gatherings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Olphalarepth said: Absolutely wrong. I've played many mmorpg in my life and politic has never been a taboo as in TOS it is clearly stated to simply avoid being rude and using insults. This trend of people getting triggered by everything is just a sad excuse that is exploited because it is too convenient of a pretest to let go. What do you expect of "politically aware" people to do? If you don't want/can't handle them just ignore them like you do for ALL the people posting utterly idiotic things on general chat and then complain that it has become an intellectual cloaca (no kidding, Sherlock!). Games are not traditionally political platforms, true but times have already changed, not changing, CHANGED and some governments do not shy away from using their tentacles to brainwash and censure even in those places where you're supposed to be "safe". From DaoC and forward I havent played a single MMO where the public chat is not off limits for politcal and religious discussions. If not prohibited by the ToS, it is prohibited by the specific rules of the chat. Plenty have had chats you've been able to opt into, off topic chats with zero rules etc. aside from personal insults and personal threats. And it doesnt matter if the times have changed, aslong as the company doesnt greenlight political debates then it is against the rules. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire2box Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) On 2019-10-26 at 7:15 AM, Solstrome said: As long as DE staff like Steve still hold the majority shares it won't be anything to panic over. They don't. Leyou owns Digital Extremes. Edited October 30, 2019 by Fire2box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire2box Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) On 2019-10-26 at 9:51 AM, Leyers_of_facade said: I don't think leyou will sell DE shares, given that warframe accounts for the vast majority of their revenue. (group's revenue in 2018 is 227 million, warframe's revenue is 194 million, both are in US dollars) http://leyoutech.com.hk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/ltn20190417075.pdf this is their annual report do note that this is revenue and not profit. Whether Leyou as an entire group will be bought up or not is another question, and that isn't something I can be too sure of. If I am a shareholder, I probably will not do so as the group's (gross) profit margin in 2018 is 62.1%, which is pretty high. 700 million (just pulling that figure out of the air. Tencent could easily pay higher or lower) is higher then 225 million. Sometimes people sell for what they'll get over a couple of years for a lump sum of cash. Edited October 30, 2019 by Fire2box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire2box Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 2019-10-27 at 7:01 AM, SneakyErvin said: Not 100% true because we dont know what the contract between Leyou and DE actually looks like. We only have knowledge based on sales figures and share holder percentages. Never once has WF the IP been involved, only the company behind it. Kinda like Activision buying up Bungie in order to get profit from Destiny 2, which didnt work out to be as profitable as Activision expected. This lead to Bungie leaving Activision while keeping their IP intact, even the part created while under Activisions ownership. So chances are very high that DE can leave Leyou with their IP intact, they'd only need to seek out new funding. Acivistion let bungie leave and it was a partnership between the two. I don't think Acitivsion out right owned bungie as Leyou does with DE. Plus Why would Tencent care about Leyou if DE and/or Warframe wasn't in? I mean Splash Damage is the only one of the other two developers I like but all they are doing is ports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaloff95 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 2019-10-26 at 5:33 PM, Pr1A said: Tencent was pushing lootboxes and other bulls*it way before they became commonplace in the Western gaming industry and NetEase are known to be greedy enough to put EA in shame. Sure, people should wait before panicking but a certain degree of concern is definitely justified. So they are the chinese equivalent of Activision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayArchon Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said: Game chats are supposed to be for everyone, hence why politics and religion have no place in them since you never know who may get offended. A gaming community should be about the hobby, the love (or hate (or both)) for the game we play. It is something to take away stress from actual everyday life, everyday life that may be very heavy on politics or religion to begin with. People shouldnt have to think about that stress during a hobby activity just because some ass wipes decide to bring it up just to pat themselves on the back while achieving jack and squat. Your "should"s and "shouldn't"s don't appear to be based on anything concrete that I can see. Nothing in the Forum guidelines, the EULA, or the ToS say anything prohibiting political speech. The closest it gets is a prohibition on political campaigning stated in the ToS, but you can discuss political topics without campaigning for a particular candidate or party. The guidelines also state that posts should be on topic to the discussion, and I think any discussion of Chinese companies buying Digital Extremes includes discussions about China writ large in the sphere of relevance, given the structure of their command economy. What @Olphalarepth and @Renegade343 have said is correct. Your blanket statements of "politics doesn't belong in games" is rooted in neither logic nor history. Games are a subset of reality, and politics affects every segment of our reality. Just because you don't like to relax and blow off steam by discussing politics doesn't mean that other people do. Some people don't turn it off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oreades Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) On 2019-10-28 at 8:32 AM, SneakyErvin said: Games have never been platforms for political discussions. Uhhh games have been a platform for political "discussion" since the dawn of games, thing is it's usually a one sided conversation. With the developer telling people what they think/feel (pushing their agenda) or what they think people in general want to hear but they themselves don't really care about (virtue signaling). You are right in that it isn't technically a discussion because people generally aren't allowed to converse about it and people who hold opposing views are typically silenced but at the very least they are very much a platform. It always kinda irks me when companies will say that "they don't want to get political" when the greater part of the time they're already neck deep in it. Edited October 30, 2019 by Oreades 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvid Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, makaloff95 said: So they are the chinese equivalent of Activision? From what I know, they're effectively a worse EA, that has direct ties to the Chinese government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire2box Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Corvid said: From what I know, they're effectively a worse EA, that has direct ties to the Chinese government. From what I heard all Chinese companies have a board seat reserved for a member of the communist party of china. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 3 hours ago, GrayArchon said: Your "should"s and "shouldn't"s don't appear to be based on anything concrete that I can see. Nothing in the Forum guidelines, the EULA, or the ToS say anything prohibiting political speech. The closest it gets is a prohibition on political campaigning stated in the ToS, but you can discuss political topics without campaigning for a particular candidate or party. The guidelines also state that posts should be on topic to the discussion, and I think any discussion of Chinese companies buying Digital Extremes includes discussions about China writ large in the sphere of relevance, given the structure of their command economy. What @Olphalarepth and @Renegade343 have said is correct. Your blanket statements of "politics doesn't belong in games" is rooted in neither logic nor history. Games are a subset of reality, and politics affects every segment of our reality. Just because you don't like to relax and blow off steam by discussing politics doesn't mean that other people do. Some people don't turn it off. There are deeper parts of ToS and EULAs that covers it all passively. Most companies tend to run on the same basic forms, forms accepted and implemented by their lawyers. Most of those cover things that could potentially lead to the company getting sued etc. if not kept in check, more so in the US where you can sue people/companies for practically anything. And the people that relax by discussing politics should maybe find another hobby activity where such a thing is actually common and doesnt invade on the people that try to exercise the actual hobby at hand. I dont go to a concert, public resturant or the movies to talk politics with random people. You know why? Because it would be rude and odd, same deal when it comes to people pushing their idea on total strangers in a game. 3 hours ago, Oreades said: Uhhh games have been a platform for political "discussion" since the dawn of games, thing is it's usually a one sided conversation. With the developer telling people what they think/feel (pushing their agenda) or what they think people in general want to hear but they themselves don't really care about (virtue signaling). You are right in that it isn't technically a discussion because people generally aren't allowed to converse about it and people who hold opposing views are typically silenced but at the very least they are very much a platform. It always kinda irks me when companies will say that "they don't want to get political" when the greater part of the time they're already neck deep in it. I havent seen or sensed political colors in any game over the last 25 years unless it has been 100% out in the open like in Overwatch (pandering to the rainbow) and Battlefield V pushing female power and claiming it is "historically correct" when in reality it isnt. Most game devs manage well to stand in the grey, even in games where obvious political ties and western morals could be used as symbols for "good". Games where you arent automatically the bad guy for wearing a towel on your head and an ak-47 in your hands, games that actually accept that it is nothing more than a game to have fun in. And where does the line go regarding when a company is political or not? If say I have a game development company and decided to sell it to Tencent because they were interested, would that make me politically engaged even though I dont give a rats ass about anything except the money I get to further evolve and safeguard the games future? Do building contractors/architects suddenly show political colors if they accept a contract from the chinese government to build or design a new building? Do I suddenly start to support fundamentlist islamic views if I accept a job in saudiarabia that involves expanding the infrastructure? Are people always required to take the part of one side over the other, or is it ok to simply stick to the grey? I'm very much grey myself with views ranging from what people would see as extreme far right all the way over to far left. It all comes down to the matter at hand for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade343 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said: And where does the line go regarding when a company is political or not? If say I have a game development company and decided to sell it to Tencent because they were interested, would that make me politically engaged even though I dont give a rats ass about anything except the money I get to further evolve and safeguard the games future? Do building contractors/architects suddenly show political colors if they accept a contract from the chinese government to build or design a new building? Do I suddenly start to support fundamentlist islamic views if I accept a job in saudiarabia that involves expanding the infrastructure? No, but at the very least I'll be watching a bit more closely, since you are dealing with the devil. I don't discount the possibility that you can still keep your ideals and morals intact even while dealing with them, but at the same time, I won't ignore the chance that you may discard them for more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamazuki Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Fire2box said: From what I heard all Chinese companies have a board seat reserved for a member of the communist party of china. They're required to interact with their government due to games being heavily regulated in China. The Chinese government can prevent even Chinese publishers from releasing games there, and they've done it before; I don't remember who, but I think it was Tencent that was being pressured by the government during the several month period where games pretty much couldn't be released due to the constant reviews for the "safety and education" of children. This typically means any company that makes it big from China is almost always going to have a connection with the government; because if they didn't, the government would just create a situation that forces the business to go down for not complying. The same thing happens in the West (US, CA and Eu), just that it's illegal to do it the way China does and these other government just resort to heavy fines and constant court battles. Edited October 31, 2019 by Yamazuki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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