How many Litch's you need to kill to get all weapons - The Numbers

[SordidDreams]

3 minutes ago, Remedyheart said:

That's fine meanwhile you go back to your own abusive relationships. Like Anthem, Destiny2, and Fallout76. But Imma stop there and just keep playing.

I've never played any of those games, nor do I intend to. Stop assuming things.

3 minutes ago, Remedyheart said:

You have so many things given to you and this games spoils us to ridiculous levels. Yet somehow...this exists. Its as if you've never had a good game to experience in your lives before.

It's exactly because we've experienced good games that we object to this.

Edited November 6, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Remedyheart]

15 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

This. Brand loyalty is a poison, and I say that as somebody who can probably point to a few people on DE staff that I'd call genuinely likable.

It's a harsh truth, but in the vast majority of circumstances "brand loyalty" only hurts you as a consumer. On balance, it's overwhelmingly a bad deal for an individual to practice loyalty to a for-profit business. You really shouldn't do it, no matter how nice that one employee was to you that one time.

U26 arrived, I don't like it, so now my game time is mostly Destiny 2 and Fishing Planet. _{You are entitled to point and laugh at me for playing a fishing game.}

Actually in theory brand loyalty or "radicalism" is bad in a sense that it hinder a company from improving on its services/product.

When a product/service is deemed "too good" to improve they will never seek to improve on it period. Overall the false positivity ends up clouding the consumer feedback and thusly the improvements will be made random.

In DE's case they just realeased a patch yesterday in reposne to all the voiced compaints. So it is not that DE isn't trying here or they don't know what direction to take. They have constantly show their effort time and again unlike Blizzard Activision Bethesda just to name a few who are bigger with more employees and money at their side.

DE would be considered an underdog in the gaming industry. But still they try and we see that so therefore they deserve my loyalty.

Blizzard and Bethesda not so much.

[SordidDreams]

6 minutes ago, Remedyheart said:

brand loyalty or "radicalism" is bad in a sense that it hinder a company from improving on its services/product

Yeah, but that's only bad for its loyal customers, not for the company itself. For the company, being able to continue selling crappy overpriced products to loyal customers is a fantastic boon. *cough*APPLE!*cough*

Edited November 6, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Remedyheart]

Just now, SordidDreams said:

Yeah, but that's only bad for its loyal customers, not for the company itself. For the company, being able to continue selling crappy overpriced products to loyal customers is a fantastic boon.

You don't get how company consumer relationships work do you?

A businessgrows under three steps.

1 - Business offers a product/service for public consumption.

2 - Consumer feedback is then collected and sorted by the business.

3 - The business redistributes improved product/service for public consumption.

We are in step two and the feedback us marginally halved. So one of us either has to be the radical one. Chances are the update is not that bad or good at the same which is fundementally rare.

Since DE followed all three basic steps here they are destined to grow even more. So the only issue I see is bad feedback from radicalized players with a vendetta to the game. My loyalty may not even be raeical but the fact that I can pinpoint out BS and see someone acting like a villian.

DE did nothing wrong here and you benefit from it either way.

[3rdpig]

30 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Since the new changes I've heard people are doing it in <1hr.

So much for liches being our "long term, personal enemies". 

Lich you say? No problem, my lunch break is coming up and he'll be dead before I'm done with my fries and apple pie.

[SordidDreams]

2 minutes ago, Remedyheart said:

You don't get how company consumer relationships work do you?

One of us sure doesn't. Hint: It's the one who said that brand loyalty is bad for companies and then in the same breath added that he's going to remain brand-loyal.

Edited November 6, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Remedyheart]

You didn't read my post or you simply didn't understand it. I'm am sorry for your loss and stress over a free game.

[SordidDreams]

2 minutes ago, Remedyheart said:

You didn't read my post or you simply didn't understand it. I'm am sorry for your loss and stress over a free game.

I'm sorry that, according to your own words, your loyalty is causing the game you love so much to be worse. Hopefully someday you'll find your way out of this particual mental maze.

[Remedyheart]

44 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

I'm sorry that, according to your own words, your loyalty is causing the game you love so much to be worse. Hopefully someday you'll find your way out of this particual mental maze.

Well they did the three steps and even til now DE is reading your very aggressive and angry posts. Taking your feedback into consideration. No worries Tenno I got chu bro. Just let it all out.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Remedyheart

[SordidDreams]

19 minutes ago, Remedyheart said:

DE is reading your very aggressive and angry posts.

Three things:

1. Lol, no. They don't even read the feedback section, let alone this.

2. Pointing out the contradictions in what you're saying is neither anger nor aggression. Project less, please.

3. I heard you the first time.

[Remedyheart]

3 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Three things:

1. Lol, no. They don't even read the feedback section, let alone this.

2. Pointing out the contradictions in what you're saying is neither anger nor aggression. Project less, please.

3. I heard you the first time.

Yeah sure ya did. Its just business man. And DE is doing all the right steps.

[Zoero]

there's 13 weapons, currently I'm sitting at 15 liches (14 dead, 1 active) which have given me the following:

archgun, chakkhur, hammer, ogris, kohm, drakgoon, seer, brakk. that is 8/13 (unique) weapons out of 15 attempts. I assume that it will get worse as you gather more weapons since that's just a higher chance to get a repeat.

[SordidDreams]

1 minute ago, Remedyheart said:

DE is doing all the right steps.

DE is, yes. I never disputed that. Your loyalty is not helping them in that, though, according to your own words.

[BloodKitten]

with a healthy dose of luck? 13, otherwise, pick a number between 13 and 10000000

[Aesthier]

Edited November 6, 2019 by Aesthier

[Paradoxity]

1 hour ago, BloodKitten said:

with a healthy dose of luck? 13, otherwise, pick a number between 13 and 10000000

Minor correction: it's somewhere between 13 and infinity. With bad enough luck there'll be kuva weapons a player never sees. 

[SteelOverseer666]

On 2019-11-05 at 9:06 AM, Genoscythe said:

Looking at the recent hotfix, they seem to listen, which is very commendable.

Looking at the most recent hotfix...they seem to not be listening lol

[Genoscythe]

il y a 2 minutes, SteelOverseer666 a dit :

Looking at the most recent hotfix...they seem to not be listening lol

I agree, especially removing murmur sharing for liches really hits where it hurts, this is a coop game, right? We definitely need more of a reward than a simple gun, too. Never grinded for so long for single firearm.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Genoscythe

[Tsardova]

8 hours ago, trst said:

And yet this is more or less exactly what the forums have been asking for since we were waiting for Fortuna to drop.

People don't like having nothing to do between updates or that they can finish an entire update within a week of it's release? Well enjoy a system that'll take the average player months to "finish". The best part is that if this system has consistent engagement after it goes awhile without direct updates to it then we can only expect more such systems.

People don't like being timegated.

People don't like having to wait for months on end only to find out that their investments be made null with "new better combat system".

People don't like egregiously excessive grind.

People don't like inconsistency that is forced on them for the sake of padding out an already time wasting padded out process.

 

It's not constant engagement, it's prolonged busywork that emulates the sense of work..... in a videogame that's supposed to be a means of escapism.

 

The same thing was an issue with nightwave, with the goal being so far out there and people being forced to have a minimum time investment to the game. And yet it seems DE didn't learn anything from it to make a system where there's a definitive goal for players where the content can last a few months or more if they keep supporting the system with additional updates without making the process too lengthy that it demotivated active engagement instead.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Tsardova

[Jodyxe]

I want all 13 of them with all 7 elements. Go and calculate that for me please.

[Pyrain]

On 2019-11-06 at 8:11 PM, Tsardova said:

People don't like being timegated.

People don't like having to wait for months on end only to find out that their investments be made null with "new better combat system".

People don't like egregiously excessive grind.

People don't like inconsistency that is forced on them for the sake of padding out an already time wasting padded out process.

 

It's not constant engagement, it's prolonged busywork that emulates the sense of work..... in a videogame that's supposed to be a means of escapism.

 

The same thing was an issue with nightwave, with the goal being so far out there and people being forced to have a minimum time investment to the game. And yet it seems DE didn't learn anything from it to make a system where there's a definitive goal for players where the content can last a few months or more if they keep supporting the system with additional updates without making the process too lengthy that it demotivated active engagement instead.

1. haven't seen a timegate yet

2. People have known Melee 3.0 was coming for literally years.  they knew channeling was going to be HEVALY changed.  People have had time to prep.  And it is better in a lot of ways.

3. On my third lich.  Still haven't felt any "egregiously excessive" grind.  Sounds to me like any grind is "egregiously excessive" in your view.

4  ok, this one doesn't even make any sense.

 

I honestly don't know how you can compare nigh wave and the liches the way you do here.  just not seeing it.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On 2019-11-05 at 7:13 AM, Ady88 said:

I thought I would calculate how many Kuva Litch's you would need to kill to get all weapons. Rather than guessing, I thought I would use the same calculations the Wiki uses to give players and expected value, and a nearly guaranteed value. Given there are 13 kuva weapons, the chance of your next Litch having a weapon you don't yet have drops for each weapon you gain (of course).

Full Calculations here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16J691BkMyAcxF281HfxtvDIskYREBljs0Hjoi8dIcII/edit?usp=sharing

Therefore to get all Kuva weapons you would need:

Expected Litch Kills (65% chance) : 43 Kills
Nearly Guaranteed (99% chance) : 160 Kills

Please feel free to correct me if my calculations are wrong.

How many times do I need to die, statistically, with the Parazon Requiem Roulette guessing game to obtain all weapons?

I’m serious.  I have no choice, apparently, so I want to know how many times to expect this forced, game-designed non-combat death.

Thanks.

[Laston]

judging by the numbers trying to solo farm the "perfect" kuva weapon is going to be unbearable if you do not engage in trading for it

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

On 2019-11-06 at 11:32 AM, trst said:

And yet this is more or less exactly what the forums have been asking for since we were waiting for Fortuna to drop.

People don't like having nothing to do between updates or that they can finish an entire update within a week of it's release? Well enjoy a system that'll take the average player months to "finish". The best part is that if this system has consistent engagement after it goes awhile without direct updates to it then we can only expect more such systems.

No.  No, no, no, JFC NO.

This isn't what literally ANYONE asked for.  People did not say "DE, pls give infinitely layered RNG grind BS for us to slog through so we have something to do between updates."  No one said that.  People asked for meaningful content with longevity.  Proper competitive modes, even if they're still PVE.  Endless style content that has actually useful rewards and a FUN gameplay loop.  Raids?  Big boss battles that require coordination that AREN'T time-gated?  Hell, even a different gameplay loop.  Lich content is literally the exact same game that already existed before Lich content, now with more grind, more RNG and more auto-death.  It's not anything genuinely new.  It does nothing different than the rest of the game.  You can't release the exact same thing that's already released, add grind and then say "we gave you something to do."  

I want the parkour competitive racing that Steve was talking about.  I want a full rework of Conclave.  The last thing anyone asked for was more grind, more RNG, less rewards, and a Sixty-friggin-Five forma requirement for some MR experience.

 

 

On 2019-11-06 at 10:00 AM, Educated_Beast said:

I wish there was no RNG on weapon damage, normalized across board for each weapon type (maybe even linear increase each time forma added), then allow us to trade them like syndicate weapons.  

Some people may be fine with 160 runs, I'm not.  I haven't even gotten my first 8 mods yet and haven't spawned a single lich.  

I'd support the DE economy buying them if possible.  We shouldn't have random stats anyway, remember, STORAGE SPACE ON SERVERS!  Why are we paying for riven slots to keep data low, then have more random data.  

I'm calling BS

If I could print this out and glue it to the monitors of every Dev at DE without getting caught, I'd already be on a plane to Canada.

[trst]

23 minutes ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

No.  No, no, no, JFC NO.

This isn't what literally ANYONE asked for.  People did not say "DE, pls give infinitely layered RNG grind BS for us to slog through so we have something to do between updates."  No one said that.  People asked for meaningful content with longevity.  Proper competitive modes, even if they're still PVE.  Endless style content that has actually useful rewards and a FUN gameplay loop.  Raids?  Big boss battles that require coordination that AREN'T time-gated?  Hell, even a different gameplay loop.  Lich content is literally the exact same game that already existed before Lich content, now with more grind, more RNG and more auto-death.  It's not anything genuinely new.  It does nothing different than the rest of the game.  You can't release the exact same thing that's already released, add grind and then say "we gave you something to do."  

I want the parkour competitive racing that Steve was talking about.  I want a full rework of Conclave.  The last thing anyone asked for was more grind, more RNG, less rewards, and a Sixty-friggin-Five forma requirement for some MR experience.

What people quite literally say is in how they spend their time which is in playing when an update drops, getting the new rewards from said update, then to stop playing entirely until the next update drops. It's never mattered what the new content was be it new modes, new progression, complete revamps of old content, new mechanics, PvP, open worlds, or Trials as it all ended in the same pattern of most people quitting once they finished it.

What you're asking for has been tried and has all failed. PvP and competitive PvE were tried between conclave, Dark Sectors, and competitive events; all of which were failures either from the lack of engagement or the sheer amount of drama surrounding them. Trials, and the boss fights with them, failed with their execution and player elitism leading to a bug-induced atrophy that wasn't worth the time to fix due to the lack of engagement from the beginning. For the same reasons racing modes will be dead on release and end up in the same state as Lunaro and Conclave has so little engagement it's already surprising the feature still exists and the chances of a full rework are slim to none.

The irony of you describing Liches however is that it's almost exactly what players have both literally asked for and have proven a desire for with the "grind and leave" pattern. Liches bring lv100+ enemies into the Star chart, something people have been asking about for years now. People literally wanted this so that they can go back through old nodes and tilesets. Then the length and layers of the grind were literally asked for between requests for things to work towards and "content drought" complaints.