Toxic lich hunter bullies are spreading "badwill", ban them.

[BDT_Flames]

Nope chance 

 When cleaning First infect  planet . Kuva Lich get automatic  2 LV and infect  other  planets

More Kuva Lich have resist... on corrosive /radiat.. very rear  -more players have   use useless weapons with  3-4 elements 

When use corrosive (and melee/kuva weapons  up rank) = useless  for lv 5

DE must  make time  for shutdown on Kuva Lich 1 min stay in area

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by BDT_Flames

[DarkSkysz]

13 hours ago, Dharma-Beerlite said:

if you are concern about your xp then you are playing at the wrong mission... go elite onslaught / Hydron. That's where you could easy leveling with affinity gain all in the closer range. 

And then I will just be another leecher in a mission...lich missions are already starting with enemies lvl100 and thats good to lvlup melees. So if I forgot the damn thing on 'public' I am not going waste my exp just because someone wants my lich dead...its my after all I do what I want with him (Forgot we can choose if he die or live?). 

Don't like the way I am playing? Abort the mission. I just do the same when I find someone doing anything I dislike. Its better than cry and fight about something stupid...

 

  

32 minutes ago, RougeMagma said:

The lich and the cryopod were not close to each other because that'll be too convenient. You get the lich or you protect the cryopod. I also chose defense because it's one of the longer mission which give more chance for the lich to spawn so I could kill it.

An ancient healer specter can give you some time to play with the lich while the pod is uncovered.

Edited November 16, 2019 by DarkSkysz

[Yoruno]

Personally im far more likely to stick around with pubs that stabs their lich then someone that doesn't. I have no reason nor desire to stick around and cooperate with someone that doesn't plan on letting my lich spawn in return.

If you're cool with doing things just your way then that's fine. Just, lets never meet.

[DrBorris]

I mean, people are entitled to be selfish, but that doesn't mean that I can't tell them just that.

If someone doesn't want to kill their Lich at the expense of the rest of the team, I am going to call a spade a spade.

Edited November 16, 2019 by DrBorris

[Mach25]

16 hours ago, Raqiya said:

The great Warframe Civil-war.

This is a sign of severe design flaws of this new system - whoever made this system should be made to walk to the end of the plank, admit their wrongdoings, make forced penance for this by paying 1 billion credits to Nef Anyo,  give everyone a free legendary core and be forbidden from playing the game with anything but unmodded mk-1 weapons (no cheats either!) for 1 month.
Afterwards, they must admit the shortcomings of their designs on YouTube or wherever and they must become an apprentice to The Arbiters faction.

[Aadi880]

5 minutes ago, Mach25 said:

This is a sign of severe design flaws of this new system - whoever made this system should be made to walk to the end of the plank, admit their wrongdoings, make forced penance for this by paying 1 billion credits to Nef Anyo,  give everyone a free legendary core and be forbidden from playing the game with anything but unmodded mk-1 weapons (no cheats either!) for 1 month.
Afterwards, they must admit the shortcomings of their designs on YouTube or wherever and they must become an apprentice to The Arbiters faction.

Just make him listen to Vor's speech for 10hrs in Corpus language spoken by Vey Hek and you'd get better results.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Aadi880

[Raqiya]

3 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

Just make him listen to Vor's speech for 10hrs in Corpus language spoken by Vey Hek and you'd get better results.

Spoiler

 

 

[Aadi880]

19 minutes ago, Raqiya said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I've seen that video, but its not voiced by Vey Hek though 😕

[White_Matter]

2 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

As I said previously, I don't play this content at all. But the point you are ignoring is that well-geared players stabbing their liches in solo is more beneficial overall than undergeared players farming murmurs without stabbing liches in solo. The system is set up in such a way that there's no harmless solution, someone has to take one for the team. My point is that it should be those people to whom it's a trivial price to pay rather than those to whom it's a major burden. It seems to me that maximizing overall good and minimizing overall harm is, what's the term... oh yes, a broadly accepted norm.

If the Lich content is that difficult(talking about squads), then maybe certain players should be grinding for better items/mods instead of whining on the forums. Not everyone is ready for all kinds of content, and that is norm for any online game where you have to grind for better loot.

There are millions of other things newer(or weaker) players can do before it comes down to farming Lich weapons. 

I'd say Kuva lich missions are the closest thing we have that resembles end game atm, and if you aren't up for it, then it is ok. That just means that you have to get better at the game.

No one is forcing anyone to 1v1 kill a lvl 5 lich. Except you.

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by White_Matter

[Graavarg]

1 hour ago, DrBorris said:

I mean, people are entitled to be selfish, but that doesn't mean that I can't tell them just that.

I am bit unclear on which selfish players you mean?

Maybe the ones bullying another player to do their bidding so that they themselves can gain (and that player lose)?

After all, the general solution (largely accepted by all players for ages) when you want to do missions a specific way in Warframe is to gather a specific group through chat. Not jumping into a random/PUG mission and harassing/name-calling other players to force them to do what you want them to do and they do not (want to do).

I can understand that farming psychosis can (literally, it currently seems) make players loose their mind, but lets not re-invent how Warframe generally is played. And what is ok, or not. Or a spade, if you like.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Graavarg

[Graavarg]

15 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

I'd say Kuva lich missions are the closest thing we have that resembles end game atm, and if you aren't up for it, then it is ok.

It might have been planned as "end-game", but it has turned into just another farm. Unfortunately this farm is also quite toxic (this thread is mellow and mild compared to what is going on in-game). And at the same time all the deeper meaning has been lost, it is now mostly about plat, a little about meta-weapons and more MR. Emasculating the Wolf was DE's doing (due to player salt, but still), this time the content destroyers are the Tennos themselves.

I pity the poor player who really wants to play this as a special and/or "end-game" content and makes the unfortunate decision to join a random/PUG squad with his/her 1st lich. That is one experience straight down the drain...

Edited November 16, 2019 by Graavarg

[8faiNt]

2 hours ago, RougeMagma said:

It's a public match. You prep with the best you have. That doesn't mean your teammates do, so you need to carry. And that's what I did.

yeah and thats what surprises me a mr25 cant carry a whole pub squad or maybe im just giving too much credit to high mr ppl. idk

[SordidDreams]

35 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

If the Lich content is that difficult(talking about squads), then maybe certain players should be grinding for better items/mods instead of whining on the forums. Not everyone is ready for all kinds of content, and that is norm for any online game where you have to grind for better loot.

There are millions of other things newer(or weaker) players can do before it comes down to farming Lich weapons. 

I'd say Kuva lich missions are the closest thing we have that resembles end game atm, and if you aren't up for it, then it is ok. That just means that you have to get better at the game.

No one is forcing anyone to 1v1 kill a lvl 5 lich. Except you.

You don't seem to get it. The problem here is selfish people demanding that others do things they want them to do instead of just leaving them alone. Your 'solution' is to demand that they do something else instead? You're still demanding that other people do what you want them to do, you've solved nothing, you're still being selfish.

Edited November 16, 2019 by SordidDreams

[DrBorris]

1 hour ago, Graavarg said:

I am bit unclear on which selfish players you mean?

Maybe the ones bullying another player to do their bidding so that they themselves can gain (and that player lose)?

After all, the general solution (largely accepted by all players for ages) when you want to do missions a specific way in Warframe is to gather a specific group through chat. Not jumping into a random/PUG mission and harassing/name-calling other players to force them to do what you want them to do and they do not (want to do).

I can understand that farming psychosis can (literally, it currently seems) make players loose their mind, but lets not re-invent how Warframe generally is played. And what is ok, or not. Or a spade, if you like.

To me, someone is being selfish when their decision has a 'net negative' impact on the result of something

Example with numbers..

• Case X: Person A gets +2 for doing a thing, people B, C, and D get +0.
• Case Y: Person A gets +1 for doing a different thing, people B, C, and D get +1 each.

So with case X the total "number" is only +2 while case Y has a total of +4. So that single person being "selfish" had a net negative for the entire group.

 

When you look at the costs and benefits of killing your Lich and the costs it will have to the rest of the group, it definitely lines up far closer to Case Y. Yes, you lose 10% of your affinity and the enemy level gets higher (this is a positive depending on who you are, as higher level missions will give more affinity), but by doing so you place a large opportunity cost on the rest of your team. And it is not like dying to your Lich is only negative, gotta farm dem murmurs. The total "good" to come out of a mission is generally higher if you deal with your Lich. Also you can always allies, maybe they are fine with you not dealing with your Lich.

 

Just to reiterate, you are entitled to play how you want. I very much respect an individuals decision to do what they want. But in my opinion, avoiding your Lich without first running it by your team is quite selfish. I hope this explained my reasoning.

This got more philosophical than I anticipated. Liches seem to be bringing up the classic individualism vs collectivism debate.

 

Edit: I am not saying that Liches are fine the way they are. I am personally in the camp that you should very much be able to "kill" your Lich and make them temporarily go away any time (without leveling up). Then a failed Requiem mod combo should not result in your death, but the temporary death of the Lich and a subsequent level up.

Edited November 16, 2019 by DrBorris

[Dharma-Beerlite]

3 hours ago, DarkSkysz said:

And then I will just be another leecher in a mission...lich missions are already starting with enemies lvl100 and thats good to lvlup melees. So if I forgot the damn thing on 'public' I am not going waste my exp just because someone wants my lich dead...its my after all I do what I want with him (Forgot we can choose if he die or live?). 

Don't like the way I am playing? Abort the mission. I just do the same when I find someone doing anything I dislike. Its better than cry and fight about something stupid...

 

  

An ancient healer specter can give you some time to play with the lich while the pod is uncovered.

Just apply basic courtesy when lvling stuffs. Don't bring all new weapon / all zero dps gear/at least bring a support frame to assist into any lvling mission and behave like a pure leecher. I am sure you are not new to this game unless you are all round selfish just want the xp result without helping the mission. So don't call anyone selfish from your earlier post becos the way you present your theory sound more selfish. Player just kill their lich so others lich can spawn in the mission.

Dont be lazy just go recruitment channel and seek like minded party and hunt your random mur mur. Players that join random pub game to hunt lich because their lich is within those planets that can be spawn. Since you guys dont want lich spawn anyone planets from your created team that spawn thralls is good to serve your goals. 

[Dharma-Beerlite]

4 hours ago, Graavarg said:

I've taken a couple of lichs "solo only" now. It actually went as fast solo (the second maybe even faster?) as doing PUGs with randoms. Gathering murmurs solo is quite effective, missions take a bit longer but I actually get more murmurs. Especially when my lich spawns in and I don't try to end it (just mess around with it, and leaving other enemies alive for "thrall creation"). Squad missions where several liches spawns in still generate most murmurs, but only if you keep the liches alive long enough to spawn in/turn additional thralls (and this is seldom the case, instead everyone kills or is pressured to kill their lich as fast as possible 🙂). But on the other hand you often join missions already in progress, only getting a few murmurs before it ends, and missions are often completed without any liches joining in.

Solo play also rewards the intelligent mathematical approach of revealing the first requiem before testing it in the first slot, then doing the same with the second (first or second slot). If the first revealed requiem is in the first slot (33% chance) you can even break off the attack and continue with revealing the second with a pissed-off lvl 1 lich (which will join missions more reliably, and so creating more thralls). If the second revealed requiem is correct in the second spot (50% chance) you can continue with the pissed-off level 1 lich to the convert/kill phase, if you were wrong your lich will be only level 2. Having a lower level lich speeds up the solo missions (considerably, depending on planet and mission) due to warframe abilities having more effect (the inverted effect of less Grineer armor).

- - -

But this thread wasn't about what is most effective, but about that harassing and pressuring other players is plain wrong, total a-hole behaviour. The reasons and reasoning behind behaving like such an idiot doesn't matter. Somehow one would expect in this me-too era that it should be clear to everyone that blaming a rape victim for the rape ("X had so revealing clothes", "X walked home alone" etc.) just doesn't cut it anymore. Harassing other players for their totally ok behaviour of 100% playing within the allowed game setting and according to developer rules and then claiming the harassment is "their own fault" falls in the same category. Precisely. Except that the bullies now mostly get away with it, but you get punished for rape and sexual harassment.

Dont assume that all players that want squad to kill their lich are after the kuva weapons or best way to farm the reward. There are alot players above MR 20 that can solo arbitration for over 60 mins or more. This lvl 5 lich thing is a new fun and challenge to those group players that don't mind helping/ or wish more lich lvl 5 spawn to have fun.

If you want to focus mur mur just create a party  since any planets from your team can spawn thralls without interrupting pub that goes after their planets that lich can spawn.    

[Portlalaland]

1 hour ago, SordidDreams said:

You don't seem to get it. The problem here is selfish people demanding that others do things they want them to do instead of just leaving them alone. Your 'solution' is to demand that they do something else instead? You're still demanding that other people do what you want them to do, you've solved nothing, you're still being selfish.

You can "demand" people to do you feel like them doing. Maybe this guy is selfish, a noob, or whatever you think he/she is. But in the end, you'll only left with the choice given by the game: continue playing or leave. There's no "kick system" in Warframe. You can't kick a player for not killing their lich. 

[Cicasajt]

idk for me its a basic human thing to help others. why cant u just press x and get killed to help 3 other people and save their time?

[SordidDreams]

6 minutes ago, RougeMagma said:

You can "demand" people to do you feel like them doing. Maybe this guy is selfish, a noob, or whatever you think he/she is. But in the end, you'll only left with the choice given by the game: continue playing or leave. There's no "kick system" in Warframe. You can't kick a player for not killing their lich. 

And thank god for that.

[Portlalaland]

3 hours ago, DarkSkysz said:

An ancient healer specter can give you some time to play with the lich while the pod is uncovered.

Funny you said that because I did spawn a specter but to help with protecting the cryopod. But tbh, the lich was quite brutal. My wukong twin only lasted probably about 5-10 seconds before he killed it.

[Aadi880]

4 minutes ago, Cicasajt said:

idk for me its a basic human thing to help others. why cant u just press x and get killed to help 3 other people and save their time?

idk...
Maybe they don't want to rank up their lich to level 5 and make the game unnecessarily difficult when it can be avoidable?
Maybe its the fact that its MORE EFFICIENT to keep the lich alive in murmur farming as it keeps turning enemies into thralls?

Why do people go to public matches AT ALL in lich systems??? Is it so rare to find LF murmur farm 3/4 in recruiting chat outside Asia?

[Cicasajt]

8 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

idk...
Maybe they don't want to rank up their lich to level 5 and make the game unnecessarily difficult when it can be avoidable?
Maybe its the fact that its MORE EFFICIENT to keep the lich alive in murmur farming as it keeps turning enemies into thralls?

Why do people go to public matches AT ALL in lich systems??? Is it so rare to find LF murmur farm 3/4 in recruiting chat outside Asia?

lvl5 is not difficult. there are 4 of u all the time.

if u dont want to level it up you can just go solo and let ppl who want to uncover their sequence do their thing.

dying to your lich is more efficient than murmurs. if 4 liches spawn in a mission you get similar ammount of thralls than if u keep 1 alive.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Cicasajt

[Oreades]

In this instance don't ban the players......... FIX THE HECCIN SYSTEM.....

Problem is from the feeling I got from watching Pablos stream (tho technically unofficial) it seems like they feel like the system is good as it stands. So they see all the issues the player base has with the system..... they just don't see those issues as problems. 

I think it will eventually get fixed but it's going to be a battle of attrition until whoever is holding out on doing the logical thing finally has a pile of metrics slammed down on their desk and is ordered to change it by management. It's a sad day when I'm looking to management to get the right things done.....  

[Orblit]

21 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

TIL 10 murmurs is "tons". Yeah, it gives 10 murmurs. And also makes future lich missions much harder. As in, going from level 50 to level 100 increases enemy effective health by a factor of twelve. Yeah, sure, get ten murmurs... at the cost of making future misisons take three, five, ten times longer to do. Seems totally worth it when you put it like that!

Doesn't seem like you're ready to be doing Liches then...but okay.

However, again, I don't care if its not actually blocking other Lich spawns.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Orblit

[Roach_Milk]

14 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

idk...
Maybe they don't want to rank up their lich to level 5 and make the game unnecessarily difficult when it can be avoidable?
Maybe its the fact that its MORE EFFICIENT to keep the lich alive in murmur farming as it keeps turning enemies into thralls?

Why do people go to public matches AT ALL in lich systems??? Is it so rare to find LF murmur farm 3/4 in recruiting chat outside Asia?

You have 3 other people in your squad. You don't have to fight your level 5 lich solo. I'm noticing a huge lack of empathy from players that don't attack their lich. They block other players liches from spawning for trivial reasons and theyll come to the forums whining and crying wondering why the other players are verbally abusing them.

Imagine finally knowing the sequence of mods to use to kill your lich but not being able to fight him because some jackass won't kill his for some silly reason.