Using crit/status mods with Blood Rush/Weeping Wounds not completely useless as claimed by Youtubers?

[Shy0]

so, i've seen wf youtubers e.g. potato, h3dsh0t saying that the combo multiplier mods i.e. blood rush and weeping wounds give their buffs off base weapon stats only and are not affected by other crit/status mods. however, the crit/status calculations on the wiki say different:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Blood_Rush

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Weeping_Wounds

was there something i missed? is the wiki outdated or are the youtubers misinformed? i get that with the new calculation, the effect of crit/status chance mods is much smaller than it used to be if you're using blood rush/weeping wounds (based on my own tests with blood rush [weeping wounds is more of a pain to test], red crits would appear some combo multipliers sooner with sacrificial steel than without). so, while it's perhaps correct to say they're not worth wasting a mod slot on, crit/status chance mods still seem to affect blood rush/weeping wounds calculations.

[Cicasajt]

even if they do scale off base stats they are worth using if thats your thing. combo counter goes up quickly. they usually have no idea what they are talking about.

[Chicken-Biryani]

So far as I have seen, not a single YouTuber said them to be completely useless as claimed in the title. They just offered better alternatives according to what they seemed better (which is always subjective and never set in stone).

[rapt0rman]

Crit Chance = Weapon Crit Chance × (1 + Mod Crit Bonus + Blood Rush Bonus × (Combo Multi - 1)) + Static Crit Bonus

Is just adding the mod crit bonus onto your bloodrush bonus.

 

Crit Chance = (Weapon Crit Chance × (1 + Mod Crit Bonus)) × Blood Rush Bonus × (Combo Multi - 1) + Static Crit Bonus

Would be Bloodrush scaling off your modded crit chance as it used to.

 

So no, other mods don't affect your Bloodrush calculations (they're still totally worth it, especially after the buffs).

Edited December 2, 2019 by rapt0rman

[Horonelius]

The problem is if you are using a weapon or skill that bases off of your equipped melee mods, like Landslide or Slash Dash when not using EB. In that case, Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds will do nothing for you.

Another thing is that certain enemies, like Kuva Liches, are immune to status procs, so all those fancy slash proc builds will do nothing to them.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Horonelius

[Renegade343]

Well, if you already have quite a bit of status increase from your +status mods, Weeping Wounds become... less useful, given that there isn't a benefit to go over 100% status for now.

[rapt0rman]

Just now, Renegade343 said:

Well, if you already have quite a bit of status increase from your +status mods, Weeping Wounds become... less useful, given that there isn't a benefit to go over 100% status for now.

Yeah, the main thing about status is that now you can easily reach 100% on anything above base 19% with just WW.

[kwlingo]

They are dissapointed because back then it was an added to base not mulitiplier to base. So the damage and crit chance was way more powerful. But that was not considering now we have a x12 combo counter instead of usually x3 and sometimes x4

[nslay]

I use both on War along Condition Overload and I can get pure red crits with a Helios and also kill some highly armored enemies expediently. I've tried and failed to make the fixed-bonus mods work as well as CO/WW/Bloodrush build I use... I really tried!

But it probably all depends on the weapon you're talking about. For War, these mods are extremely useful while the less useful ones are Sacrificial Steel, 60/60 mods and Primed Pressure Point. By the time you fit all of these mods along with Quickening, Berserker, Primed Reach, and Organ Shatter, you've got only one slot left. And that slot seemed best used for the extremely lame Rending Strike (giving IPS each ~33% chance to proc and ramping up CO very fast along with the Lifted status!) after lots and lots of testing.

[taiiat]

the information on the Articles is agreeing with the Content Creators(in that they aren't Multiplying each other) - note that the benefit from the Hit Counter Mods is being added together with your Static Mods, according to the suggested math. does that not sound normal to you? if Blood Rush gives you say, +300% Crit Chance with something, that doesn't mean True Steel wouldn't also increase your Crit Chance. they are not Multiplying off of each other but both Mods are still doing what they say on the Mod. same goes for all of the Mods.

nothing out of the ordinary here. :)

Edited December 2, 2019 by taiiat

[Renegade343]

41 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

Yeah, the main thing about status is that now you can easily reach 100% on anything above base 19% with just WW.

Well, if you don't build your melee weapon with some +status chance mods and/or +status chance Riven, and just use Weeping Wounds, then yeah, you'll get 100% status with it as long as you're at 11x combo for a weapon with base chance of 19%.

Might be a bit of a problem if you're running with a nuker though.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Renegade343

[0_The_F00l]

i dont recollect anyone saying they are useless,

just that they do not scale off of modded crit.

[Jarriaga]

6 hours ago, rapt0rman said:

Crit Chance = Weapon Crit Chance × (1 + Mod Crit Bonus + Blood Rush Bonus × (Combo Multi - 1)) + Static Crit Bonus

Is just adding the mod crit bonus onto your bloodrush bonus.

 

Crit Chance = (Weapon Crit Chance × (1 + Mod Crit Bonus)) × Blood Rush Bonus × (Combo Multi - 1) + Static Crit Bonus

Would be Bloodrush scaling off your modded crit chance as it used to.

 

So no, other mods don't affect your Bloodrush calculations (they're still totally worth it, especially after the buffs).

Bingo. 

[(PSN)sister-hawk]

First of all, al lot of youtubers (not all, but a lot) have no clue what they are talking about. They just collect the meta info they can and pass it along, even if they don’t really understand it. A rare few take the time to really dissect and make sense of what they are saying. So don’t always listen to youtube.

Secondly, the only weapons it’s not worth using blood rush on are weapons that have a very low base critical chance (i would say 10% or lower). Even base 15% crit is good enough for blood rush if the weapon also has good status to bridge the gap.

The value of weeping wounds depends on whether or not you need more status. If you get plenty of status procs without it, it’s probably not needed.