Thanks for watching Devstream #135!

[Schia5]

Amesha's whole thing is survivability.  Instead of nerfing that one, either bring the other AW's survivability up, or make their abilities more useful in RJ, and the problem you're going to run into is distance for the damage abilities.  Maybe create a RJ-specialized AW instead?

[theRCB]

Modular Archwing is the best thing ever thought of. It's something I always wished the archwings would have been. Please do this, I don't even care of losing my archwing progress or builds, just do it. if you have to, just give everyone what the used on archwing back. Refund their items. I would love this.

[Scissorsmith]

Well, not strange people use amesha considering other archwings basically have no abilities.

Elytron is nice on paper, but his missiles are sooooo slow you can kill everything before the missile hits anything. His flares don't seem to work most times too.

Itzal got killed. New 1 is literally useless, I don't think the devs even tried it or gave it any thought before adding it (this is a recurring problem with many things they do). Invis is good, even if it doesn't work sometimes. 3 is basically used to gather loot that drops, cause we still collect loot like in the 90's, even in space, where it sometimes drops literally 10 km away from you. 4 is useless.

Odonata has abilities that sort of do something, but kind of do nothing. 1 I think increases defense, not sure, newer noticed a big difference using it, 2 are flares, same as elytron, dont seem to work half the time even on those rare occassions where you'd use it. 4 is sort of weak CC, never seen people using it.

If I take any of these frames, abilities don't matter, because almost all of these abilities will have a very minor impact. So it's basically a choice of:

Amesha - who has abilities that actually do something.

Every other archwing - abilities do so little it doesn't matter which one you pick.

Also, in Railjack, there's the issue of everything else getting one-shot. I don't realise how they played that and thought "yeah this is fine". Maybe it's a consequence of devs always playing with dev cheats on, so t hey don't notice when they create a ship that has one-shot homing missiles. Yeah. How did that even get through testing?

The other railjack problem - enemy fighter speed. A BIG part of how dogfighting should work is matching speeds with enemy. We can't do that. So we are forced to use amesha slow to be able to hit them. How the hell are super-advanced archwing tech and railjacks even slower than the interceptors? In what world does that make sense? We can't control archwing speed really - we have standing, slow forward, fast forward, and this is a huuuuuuge problem.

Increase archwing speed, give us a keybind to target an enemy to "match speed" and suddenly people might cheese less and play more, because you get a little closer to actual dogfighting.

[kyori]

15 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

.

The guy who did the Ash Deluxe should do a full series of Deluxe. Or best, he should redesign everything in the game. 😄

[Grave.Knight]

Don't nerf Amesha just yet. If anything other Archwings need buffing. The only reason people were using Amesha so much is cause it's so tanky and we needed that tankiness to survive.

[T-362]

Topic - "20 hours ago"... Where is our text version of a stream?!

[Mikhael222]

 

22 hours ago, Jivy said:

amesha will get nerfed just not this year

 

21 hours ago, FoxyKabam said:

• archwing nerfs

 

18 hours ago, Domrond said:

Can we please stop nerfing all the good archwings? 

 

4 hours ago, Grave.Knight said:

Don't nerf Amesha just yet.

I don't know what devstream you guys watched, but in the devstream I watched (i.e. the one from yesterday), they never said they were making archwings worse -- they're revising the entire archwing system - all archwings - to be balanced for Empyrean gameplay.

[ValinorAtani]

vor 33 Minuten schrieb Mikhael222:

I don't know what devstream you guys watched, but in the devstream I watched (i.e. the one from yesterday), they never said they were making archwings worse -- they're revising the entire archwing system - all archwings - to be balanced for Empyrean gameplay.

Or we just know the history of balancing e.g. bring down the vaiable one to all others on the bottom instead of raise all non-vaiables to the top one 😜 I mean look at Itzal right now. They should have let her untouched especially regarding the one shot mess RJ is right now. I my personall guess is her former blink would work well in Open Space Combat. Now have to rely more or less to Amesha.

[Grave.Knight]

23 minutes ago, ValinorAtani said:

Now have to rely more or less to Amesha.

Hopefully with the change how enemy missile targeting works that's no longer the case. Not that I want to really test it out, there really nothing about the Itzal that makes me want to choose it over the Amesha now (I was already liking the Amesha when I was leveling it).

Honestly Itzal's design is all over the place. It has a black hole, but also it cloaks, and it creates pets. What is even the theme here? Furthermore it's suppose to be super mobile but the cloak only works if you're standing still, that's pretty counter intuitive. And then Ripline just doesn't fit at all with any of that. Blink really was the only power that fits the idea of a light, super mobile fighter. The pets could work if they had a larger engagement radius, would warp with Itzal, and could be modified like an Exalted Sentinel.

[Mikhael222]

18 hours ago, ValinorAtani said:

Or we just know the history of balancing e.g. bring down the vaiable one to all others on the bottom instead of raise all non-vaiables to the top one 😜 I mean look at Itzal right now. They should have let her untouched especially regarding the one shot mess RJ is right now. I my personall guess is her former blink would work well in Open Space Combat. Now have to rely more or less to Amesha.

??....If you're referring to and/or holding on to the bitterness surrounding the Catchmoon Nerf, I think that's an entirely different circumstance.  I never tried pre-nerf Catchmoon (I'm not huge into kitguns), but I heard it was ridiculously strong.

I think DE is smart enough to know that nerfing Amesha would make the game unplayable for many people.

As for Itzal, I think they just added something quick because of being focused on Railjack and the Sentient tilesets.  I don't believe it will last long in its current state.

[ValinorAtani]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Mikhael222:

As for Itzal, I think they just added something quick because of being focused on Railjack and the Sentient tilesets.  I don't believe it will last long in its current state.

I mean DE released the Itzal "Nerf" when was it 26.1? by End of November and RJ was released 3 weeks later. Why was it necessary to do it like that? Especially in such a short state to the next update they had to fix it? Ok, other Archwings needed a lil more mobility but it raises the question why didnt they (archwings) got a whole overhaul with empyrean. Right now anything else is near useless. Heck even Rebb used Amesha during the last Stream which showed the lack of oversight about RJ and why it is such a half baked disaster (my opinion) as of now.

[Mikhael222]

1 hour ago, ValinorAtani said:

but it raises the question why didnt they (archwings) got a whole overhaul with empyrean

Because they were focused on Empyrean itself...…..Did you watch the devstream?  They have definite plans on giving the archwing system an overhaul now that Empyrean is out.

[Silver-Priest]

On 2019-12-21 at 11:14 AM, Scissorsmith said:

railjacks even slower than the interceptors?

Well, sufficiently upgraded railjack is faster.

[Jarriaga]

On 2019-12-20 at 5:20 PM, Silver-Priest said:

@[DE]Rebecca You replied to some people in chat about Valkyr rework.

DON'T YOU DARE REWORKING HER. She is perfect. If you break her, i will be heartbroken to the point of leaving warframe. Every single whiner, who asks about reworks, just does not know how to use her.

But if you really must rework her, here is my input as a player with 36% of my 3.3k hours spent using this frame.

1) Don't touch this one. It is her most used ability by me. Only possible improvement for her 1 would be to make tapping always snap to terrain, ignoring enemies, and holding it to target the enemies. If you are feeling generous, let her drag multiple opponents on holding the button.

2) suffers from the fact that duration is the dump stat for valkyr, otherwise it is good. I suggest changing it to continuous type.

3) is not used, feel free to change in any way you want.

4) is perfect, don't touch.

"Perfect" while having the most useless and redundant traversal ability in the game considering you have Operators and that contrary to other traversal abilities, it's not multi-target and does not grant secondary buffs. It's an ability that shows it was designed long before Operators existed and when single-target abilities had merit.

"Perfect" while having the worst-scaling ability in the entire game with regards to diminishing returns vs. power strength investment (Warcry) because it scales off base armor rather than total armor, a mandatory augment due to its short base duration, and hurts all other 3 of her abilities when chasing strength or duration because of range and efficiency.

"Perfect" while having the worst Exalted Weapon in the entire game because it can not deal with armor on top of having a progressively harsher energy upkeep on top of being weaker than most normal melee weapons after the rework even without Rivens because they can scale better with mods her claws can't use.

"Perfect" even though she has no way of boosting her damage or deal with heavily-armored enemies efficiently without going through them one at a time.

"Perfect" even though she has no synergy beyond being able to use Warcry with Hysteria, which means even less energy for Hysteria's upkeep unless you're using the mandatory Eternal War augment.

But hey, what do I know? After all, I'm just a whiner and don't have my own eyes and don't have any other frame or Operator I can use as a point of reference with regards to how outdated her kit is. My own 24% usage with 16 Forma experimenting on her are totally invalid when compared to your higher usage stat because only your perception is the true and correct one. It can't possibly be that the rest of the game has moved on from what she did to the point she has little to nothing going on for her and you're so emotionally invested into her that you can't see just how big her flaws are in 2019.

DE, I hope you rework her. Here's my thread with proposals and ideas: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1132027-second-proposed-valkyr-rework-please-kill-ripline-make-warcry-her-core-ability/

[Silver-Priest]

On 2019-12-23 at 7:47 PM, Jarriaga said:

"Perfect" while having the most useless and redundant traversal ability in the game considering you have Operators and that contrary to other traversal abilities, it's not multi-target and does not grant secondary buffs. It's an ability that shows it was designed long before Operators existed and when single-target abilities had merit.

"Perfect" while having the worst-scaling ability in the entire game with regards to diminishing returns vs. power strength investment (Warcry) because it scales off base armor rather than total armor, a mandatory augment due to its short base duration, and hurts all other 3 of her abilities when chasing strength or duration because of range and efficiency.

"Perfect" while having the worst Exalted Weapon in the entire game because it can not deal with armor on top of having a progressively harsher energy upkeep on top of being weaker than most normal melee weapons after the rework even without Rivens because they can scale better with mods her claws can't use.

"Perfect" even though she has no way of boosting her damage or deal with heavily-armored enemies efficiently without going through them one at a time.

"Perfect" even though she has no synergy beyond being able to use Warcry with Hysteria, which means even less energy for Hysteria's upkeep unless you're using the mandatory Eternal War augment.

But hey, what do I know? After all, I'm just a whiner and don't have my own eyes and don't have any other frame or Operator I can use as a point of reference with regards to how outdated her kit is. My own 24% usage with 16 Forma experimenting on her are totally invalid when compared to your higher usage stat because only your perception is the true and correct one. It can't possibly be that the rest of the game has moved on from what she did to the point she has little to nothing going on for her and you're so emotionally invested into her that you can't see just how big her flaws are in 2019.

DE, I hope you rework her. Here's my thread with proposals and ideas: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1132027-second-proposed-valkyr-rework-please-kill-ripline-make-warcry-her-core-ability/

Yep, you have successfully proven, that you don't know how to build or use her. Your version of her is completely useless. You have typed a novel, yet it contains nothing of value.

Ripline is cheap, and very comfortable. Best frame movement ability in the game by a longshot, and allows things that operators cannot do easily, like swinging around corners and it perfectly complements bulletjump+rolls and directional melee slams.

Hysterical assault is useless. The fact that you want it by default says everything.

 

[Exodess]

On 2019-12-20 at 3:20 PM, Silver-Priest said:

@[DE]Rebecca You replied to some people in chat about Valkyr rework.

DON'T YOU DARE REWORKING HER. She is perfect.

As a fellow Valkyr main, I respectfully disagree.

I believe her kit needs some tweaking while keeping the original functions of her powers intact. Take the following ideas for example:

• Double her overall cast speed.
• Her #1 and #3 are either redundant or useless in combat compared to other basic combat options available to the player and require modifying their functionality. 
  • Rip Line #1 should transform into a cone attack when targeting an enemy. Alternatively, enemies afflicted by Rip Line could be momentarily "tied up". Rip Line should also not result in movement lock for the player when used.
  • Paralysis #3 should not have its stagger component rendered invalid just because an enemy is affected by other animations at the time (and perhaps turn it into a PBAoE rather than a cone.) Also, modify the when-shields-are-available self-damage attack component into a %damage-to-enemy mechanic similar to Oberon's #1, and have it scale to Valkyr's available shields at the time.
    • It's also important to note that this power in particular is incredibly redundant - it is easily replaced by ground slams in the game's current state with Melee 3.0. This is because Ground Finishers are dramatically more powerful than the Standing type, with many including a massive 1200% damage component or a guaranteed slash proc with the finisher multiplier. This makes ground slams scale dramatically better than Paralysis ever could hope to. So whatever is decided upon should provide a proper incentive to use this power instead of a ground slam.
• Convert her #2 into a party-wide toggle with an AoE effect on enemies' speed (and turning Eternal War's bonus into a "grants X energy per kill" to keep the ability/mod's functionality identical, as I see this working like Oberon's Renewal toggle where there is no outside way to get energy while this ability is active). Or at the very least remove the movement lock while it is being cast.
• Give Hysteria a "single attack" component when doing a button Tap for a strong finisher-type melee attack, or Hold to swap to Hysteria mode as it currently operates. 

Other aspects of her functionality should remain intact; her base 700 armor provides some unique modding synergies, for example.

EDIT: Had another random idea crop up -- what if Valkyr's abilities were expanded in function to deliberately trigger the Mercy state on enemies for Finishers, thereby giving her unique synergy with the Parazon mods?

[_Kiro]

How anybody can consider Valkyr to be perfect is beyond rational thinking when there are warframes like Excalibur, Wukong and even Gauss who do what she does but a lot better. Heck I love Valkyr as well, she was the first warframe I ever built and I clocked a considerable amount of hours to the point I put every Umbral forma so far on her Prime version.

She needs a revision. And be honest here, save for some very specific cases, her 1 and her 3 are useless. The fact anybody would use her 1 to move around when parkour is an option and the Operator is a thing is just plain laughable, I'm sorry.

Her 3, assuming standard build (no range) ends up with no use, and even without a standard build, I can't see anybody using it to proc finishers or stun enemies when they can just kill them.

Her 4 needs a buff, later in levels it's just a chore to kill anything without a higher status value, it is perfectly doable, yes but still a chore. Comparing this exalted to any other one in the game just makes me sad though. Quite honestly, and this isn't a recommendation but more like a prediction, I can see DE switching the stats on this exalted weapon, changing how the combos work and switching the whole invincibility thing to a 90% reduction while also killing off the extra energy expense that, sincerely, we should never have gotten added on this warframe.

I have no problem with her 2 though, it's downright the one ability she has that I have near 0 problems with and the one ability that helps with her scaling in higher levels.

Either way, I can see her 1 and 3 being nuked into oblivion OR 1 being changed and 3 being nuked. I think 4 will probably get something along the changes I mentioned above and that should be it for this "revision" of hers. I honestly feel she would do better with a rework on the level of Wukong so she would shine like when I got her but I don't feel like it's "needed".

Just my 2cents.

[DaraSilverDragon]

Any reason why there's no word on today's devstream (or lack thereof?)
Usually even if it's been postponed, there's a forum post up here about it by now

[MirageKnight]

3 hours ago, DaraSilverDragon said:

Any reason why there's no word on today's devstream (or lack thereof?)

I wasn't aware that one was scheduled for today o.O

If anything, we'll probably get one next week.

[Exodess]

15 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

I wasn't aware that one was scheduled for today o.O

If anything, we'll probably get one next week.

I assumed DE was still on vacation til next week as well.

[DaraSilverDragon]

16 minutes ago, Exodess said:

I assumed DE was still on vacation til next week as well.

Megan was on the Xbox stream this monday, and said the office was back open for normal business as of Thursday (which would have been yesterday)

[Exodess]

26 minutes ago, DaraSilverDragon said:

Megan was on the Xbox stream this monday, and said the office was back open for normal business as of Thursday (which would have been yesterday)

Good to know, though I imagine it'll be a couple of weeks before the pacing gets back to normal. It sounded like the team was completely puttered out by Empyrean.

[DaraSilverDragon]

2 minutes ago, Exodess said:

Good to know, though I imagine it'll be a couple of weeks before the pacing gets back to normal. It sounded like the team was completely puttered out by Empyrean.

Oh definitely.
I'm sick of content creators constantly ripping into what is clearly an unfinished product and complaining about it, but I can't lie - DE really shot themselves in the foot by promising New War by christmas during Tenno Live last year. You could tell from Reb's reaction that it was unscripted, too
It forced them to have Empyrean in some kind of working state before then, because there was no way they weren't going to make New War content without it, and Empyrean just was not ready to ship, pure and simple.
This is why I get annoyed when people whine and moan about 'content droughts' - there's plenty to do in WF, and if you're bored, then go play something else until DE has had the time to release something with proper polish. Whinging about 'content droughts' with every other breath just pushes DE to rush unfinished and unrefined systems out the door, and then they complain about that too anyway. Let the damn people breathe.

[Exodess]

42 minutes ago, DaraSilverDragon said:

Oh definitely.
I'm sick of content creators constantly ripping into what is clearly an unfinished product and complaining about it, but I can't lie - DE really shot themselves in the foot by promising New War by christmas during Tenno Live last year. You could tell from Reb's reaction that it was unscripted, too
It forced them to have Empyrean in some kind of working state before then, because there was no way they weren't going to make New War content without it, and Empyrean just was not ready to ship, pure and simple.
This is why I get annoyed when people whine and moan about 'content droughts' - there's plenty to do in WF, and if you're bored, then go play something else until DE has had the time to release something with proper polish. Whinging about 'content droughts' with every other breath just pushes DE to rush unfinished and unrefined systems out the door, and then they complain about that too anyway. Let the damn people breathe.

Some of it comes from a place of love, though any who resort to saying "Warframe is declining" may have some misguided views; the game itself was never a polished product, but rather an ever-evolving experiment without having much actual direction until very recently.

I too have had my share of gripes, and in the past seven years I've seen many many times DE has demonstrated either questionable behavior or design decisions. However, I respect that they earnestly believe in what they are doing and put an unrealistic amount of pressure on themselves to make this all work. I also respect that when DE nails something, they really nail it. The primary problem they face is that this continuous need for momentum seems to result in their content development falling into distraction, resulting in several gameplay systems remaining half-baked until later revisited.

So if I had one thing in general I would suggest to the team, it is this: Finish what you start. 

Enhance Archwing statistics and and interaction between content types for better overall behavior (and maybe add some of their enemy types to Railjack maps). Look into the feedback on Empyrean's gearing mechanisms. Improve the Kuva Lich system before implementing it into Empyrean. Improve the new player experience and create a proper roadmap for players from start-to-finish so they can have a better time leading up to when they'll join the rest of us in deep space.

Really, I just really want to see DE truly rally around Empyrean and make it into a fully-integrated cross-mode gameplay mechanic and not a separate game mode like the Archwing missions turned into. This could be the thing that finally binds all of Warframe's content types together.

 

[_Kiro]

3 hours ago, DaraSilverDragon said:

(...)
This is why I get annoyed when people whine and moan about 'content droughts' - there's plenty to do in WF, and if you're bored, then go play something else until DE has had the time to release something with proper polish. Whinging about 'content droughts' with every other breath just pushes DE to rush unfinished and unrefined systems out the door, and then they complain about that too anyway. Let the damn people breathe.

I'm sorry, and this is not directed at you but at this particular comment about "playing something else until DE has time to do X or Y" thing, people are doing it already.

Warframe isn't even frequently on Steam's top 10 anymore, most players are already playing Destiny 2 for a while now or, hey, I'm playing Witcher 3 cuz everybody's talking about it again. Warframe is still BETA but quite honestly it's a useless tag at this point when the game has been out for this many years.

DE isn't a baby company in the business anymore and, quite frankly, Empyrean was only released that early so that DE could do a big boy's move and say "our update is out right now!" right on the Game Awards to get bigger exposition and it ended up being a huge shot in the foot considering the inumerous (and mostly negative) implications on said update that you can hear or read about in any video or post that talks about the subject - topics about it being buggy, unplayable, a chore to grind among other things are so common that you can't really miss them. I'm not pointing a gun at DE here, everybody makes mistakes but we have been waiting for this update for 2 Tennocons, not 1, 2. The community could have perfectly waited another 2 months for something more stable.

Releasing it early with that many bugs is just difficult to express. And honestly... how many companies say "we got this NEW update for ya to try out while we go on vacation!" ? I mean... seriously? OK, sure. They're people too and it's Christmas but YET ANOTHER REASON it shouldn't have come out. The update NEEDED hotfixes, it needed more cooking time and don't get me started on the "Rush Repair Drones" which was a clear way to cash in on any player who wants to skip the endless grind for resources in the case of the higher level weapons on this new system. The "Rush Repair Drones are something I'm comparing to the Mod boosters fiasco from a few months ago at this point. 

I personally think the game has been going downhill since Fortuna. For the sake of comparison the Plains of Eidolon was an impressive update at the time with multiple new systems, new bosses and incredible rewards for the experienced player in the form of Eidolon hunting. Eidolon Hunting is something that always has a use in Warframe, be it to farm standing, focus or even Arcanes to use or sell to other players - Fortuna has nothing like this and instead rewards players with a measly resource after beating what's probably the most annoying boss in the whole game for the unprepared player - Profit Taker. The whole grind for standing, to waste on the various NPCs to get stuff, only to wait for the next day so I can get more standing due to daily cap, only so that I can then go to the back to farm standing again for yet ANOTHER syndicate which happens to have 2 warframes locked on the highest level? 

My problem here is that our time isn't valued anymore. I'm wasting days of grind here so I can grind for what I'm interested in - in this particular case it was the new Warframes from the update - I have to grind 2 separate syndicates over the course of MULTIPLE DAYS in order to play the new Warframes just because "the update is new and you can't rush it"? OK, sure but then what's this padding without any substance? Why is every update lately like this? 

You grind something you don't give a damn about in order to grind something you care about. Back when I started playing I would grind for what I wanted to grind. I would get told "get on this mission and do it til it drops". Now to get said behavior from the same game I need to first grind intrinsics up to level 7 at least cuz the best stuff for my Railjack is on the highest level, AND THEN EVEN IF I GET IT, RNG can make it weaker than a regular variant. But sure, it'll be addressed eventually... 

The one update that was actually good this year was Wisp's. The new mode was fun, straightforward and getting Wisp was like the old days: 
A BOSS. You run it, kill it, get part, repeat. Same thing happened with Gauss. Hildryn was put beside Baruuk for some reason, farm 2 syndicates so you can reach her, gg (sarcasm implied).

It's frustrating because a LOT of what the partners are saying lately is right. A lot is also an exaggeration sure, but a LOT of it is also correct. And I know people are people and they need rest but Empyrean is looking more and more like a mobile game considering all the grind for the same weapon with different stats and the whole rush mechanic.