DE's questionable lRoadmap

[Goodwill]

Judging by data gathered based on anecdotal evidence from players:

A lot of the players have finished the Railjack grind. Sure they don't have the elusive 100 avionics reactor but it's pointless at this point as they have already completed everything that it is relevant to, proving that it is not a necessary gain. They also have  rank 10 on all intrinsics.

I'm not at this point yet and you know why? Because I've been lazy and playing other games. But if I wanted to, I probably would have rank 10 on all my intrinsics and probably a reactor that's 50+ avionics.

Thing is players say that the lich grind is absurd, players say the railjack grind is absurd but data clearly contradicts that sentiment. I'm pretty much an inch away from hitting that point. I can say I definitely do not play Warframe 7 days a week and when I do play, it's less than 2 hours, generally less than one. Now, to a new player, it would most DEFINITELY seems absurd and they are right. But point still stands, it's not railjack or liches, it's the game considered in its entirety.

The issue here is not the grind and this is probably why DE doesn't quite listen, they also know the issue is not the grind itself. Rather it's the game itself. Right now, I just want DE to focus on ironing out bugs and optimizations so everyone can have a consistent experience. Then they can work on improving that experience. The grind isn't long, nor is the grind itself unreasonable. It's the experience of that grind. Eg; players losing loot due to host migrations or just having poor sessions due to bugs.

Grind may be considerably lessened due to boosters which some may argue is a "pay2win" item. But here's the thing; in Warframe's current state, premium currency trading is a feature and it is not DE's fault players choose not to engage in it. Now if DE had a proper plat sink in the game to stop the economy from inflating as high as it has, then yes I will agree with people that boosters may be an issue and skewing perspectives. But there is so much plat in circulation that there is no excuse as, "nothing you can sell", for it. Just an offhand comment, but Ducats is probably THE best system DE has ever implemented into Warframe. Not saying much but it does allow for circulation of plat as long as they keep Baro's stock fresh (which they haven't been doing recently admittedly so come now DE, chop-chop).

[Atekron]

DE should rename their company to "Grinding Gear Games"

[Mikaer88]

11 minutes ago, Atekron said:

DE should rename their company to "Grinding Gear Games"

[Atekron]

1 hour ago, Hyro1 said:

People in the forums: There's nothing to do, there's content drought, no difficulty. Also People in forums: To much grind, takes too long to get through content, content is to difficult. 

DE whole year:spare drops of half-baked content, controversial reworks(alerts, frames, melee system).

Also DE: when people start to leave game and numbers of concurrent players very low, they had release clearly not ready, grindy and bad designed litch system.

Also DE: took opportunity for free advertisement and did release broken pile of S#&$, on which they had work for two years, during game awards

 

[(PSN)XxDrakenguardxX]

Why dose it feel like the only thing im hearing out of DE anymore is how much they want to nerf everything.

First there's that buissness with Pablo joking about saryn because shes god in SO and good all around.

Then there was the stright up nerfs to archguns in RJ content... Yeah given RJ mission balance... I dont see the point other than to force a weak RJ down our throats and nuter our damage to force a restart.

Then something about taking another dump on trinity... 

Is that all DE is focused on right now?

Might be holidays, might be im just not looking in the right places. it's only been 3 days from New Year so I this is more just venting frustrations than anything else. 

But I'm Probubly not the only one sick of never hearing any real positives. RJ was fun for two seconds, but it's entierly unbalanced and a stupid grind for no real payoff outside of 3 (one good one and 2 just ok)weapons and a mandatory quest.

 

Like said I'm just venting, love the game but it's kinda getting difficult to bother logging onto with nothing going on.

[George_PPS]

5 hours ago, Hyro1 said:

Basically until the player base can come as one and give solid feedback that doesn't contradict each other, then expect DE to implement changes that you don't agree with just so that they can satisfy someone else complaints

This  could be  a major source that propels DE to release conflicting updates and terrible power/weapon/damage balancing. DE has been mostly nerfing the metas and whatever stands out on their spread sheet and making  all waepons the same while destroying unique mechanics and gameplay fluidity. It's been going on for 18 months and we are seeing fleeing player base.  This is not how game should be balanced or destroyed. Constant progress reset and nerfing what ever is  fun is killing the game. And  all  of these is on top of more and more grinding that's no longer fun. 

16 hours ago, Vespilan said:

Well, what do you really expect the devs to do?
Timegating creates a sense of progression, of work, for those who could otherwise not get it just because 

Timegating was not an issue when most of the fun factors/unique mechanics/damage systems were not nerfed to the ground as it is now. Time gating has become meaningless as the gameplay fluidity is removed and more and more nerfs are added to the game.  

[IamLoco]

On 2019-12-29 at 7:52 AM, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

Oh, I remember.  I super remember.  

I run through the "new player experience" nearly monthly.  I've watched dozens of people quit out of frustration with certain aspects (This game is not free, I do not care what anyone says.  If you don't spend money to get slots in your first few MR ranks you are going to have a BAD time.)
 

Thanks 😄

As a new player, I used to hear things like "If you buy Orokin Catalysts or Reactors aka potatoes, you´re doing it wrong!"

Much later I realised that you have to be a veteran player to play it "free". A newbie doesn´t have access to those rare events that provide you with those things. 

Now I am sitting on a ton of formas, potatoes and sometimes even spare platinum....but at the beginning, I literally spent around 2500 - 3000 platinum only to get Warframe slots, loadout slots, reactors, catalysts (often misplaced....my bad), formas and exilus adapters.

Thank god I was lucky with those 75% discounts on plat.

 

My best buddy wanted to join warframe a while ago because it´s "free to play" but soon he discovered how much he´d have to spend to get going without that permanent feeling of lacking something important... he quit again.

 

 

EDIT: that being said - if I had known BEFORE that you are capped at 30 loadout slots, I would have never invested into those to begin with. I wanted to have one loadout slot for each kind of warframe - one for each prime frame and one for each that don´t have a prime version. Just for the overview and to avoid chaos.

Edited January 4, 2020 by IamLoco

[Vespilan]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb George_PPS:

Timegating was not an issue when most of the fun factors/unique mechanics/damage systems were not nerfed to the ground as it is now. Time gating has become meaningless as the gameplay fluidity is removed and more and more nerfs are added to the game.  

Timegating and weapon /frame nerfs have about nothing to do with each other. If by "nerfs" you are refering to the melee rework, consider this handy graph;


The logic of nerfing something on the basis alone that it is meta is stupid, I agree. Saryn might be meta in ESO but is a poor pick in about any other gamemode. Nerfing the entirety of Saryn just because she excels in one gamemode is bullS#&$. That would be like nerfing Frost because he can throw down his globe which is useful in (mobile) defense. 
But essentially, nerfs is what the Warframe community asked for. People were upset because a weapon of ancient orokin technology, a civilization famed for its craftmansship could not keep up with a pokestick glued together by some bazar merchant in earth's outback (no offense Hok). They were also upset because rivens were a mere bandaid fix for some good hard weapon nerfs that were desperately needed. Now the weapons are nerfed and players are still upset? I'm starting to see a pattern.

TL;DR: The recent "nerfs" encourage diversity and are overall buffs.

[SneakyErvin]

On 2020-01-02 at 11:48 PM, Teridax68 said:

-snip-

This is my last answer to you because you dont get the simple part of it that me and several others have pointed out.

They never promised you anything.

Since you cant understand even that, it is pointless to have any type of conversation with you.

[George_PPS]

2 hours ago, Vespilan said:

Timegating and weapon /frame nerfs have about nothing to do with each other. If by "nerfs" you are refering to the melee rework, consider this handy graph;


The logic of nerfing something on the basis alone that it is meta is stupid, I agree. Saryn might be meta in ESO but is a poor pick in about any other gamemode. Nerfing the entirety of Saryn just because she excels in one gamemode is bullS#&$. That would be like nerfing Frost because he can throw down his globe which is useful in (mobile) defense. 
But essentially, nerfs is what the Warframe community asked for. People were upset because a weapon of ancient orokin technology, a civilization famed for its craftmansship could not keep up with a pokestick glued together by some bazar merchant in earth's outback (no offense Hok). They were also upset because rivens were a mere bandaid fix for some good hard weapon nerfs that were desperately needed. Now the weapons are nerfed and players are still upset? I'm starting to see a pattern.

TL;DR: The recent "nerfs" encourage diversity and are overall buffs.

Great graph. That god like power and fluidity on the left is exactly what many players enjoyed tremendously and most players were using builds at that top levels. The design direction to reduce bad weapons is good but that it kills so many meta mechanics and top damages is terrible. Just look at the massively declined player base.  Other games are growing numbers but Warframe is not growing but declining. It says all. It’s a bad trade off. Not to mention many favorite weapons’ mechanics totally broken. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by George_PPS

[Vespilan]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb George_PPS:

That god like power and fluidity on the left is exactly what many players enjoyed tremendously

That is straight up speculation. I heard alot of players rant about how there is really only a meta of about a handful of useful melee weapons and I agree with them. 
 

vor 20 Minuten schrieb George_PPS:

but that it kills so many meta mechanics and top damages is terrible

You are just looking at the wrong builds, I assume. Weapon ranges and particularly reach mods got a straight buff which, in turn, made the combo counter mods better to stack. Crit chance mods are better. Condition Overload is better than it ever has been before; It deals more damage with less procs.
Have you ever used the heavy-hit Fragor Prime?

Try it out. It hurts.

vor 27 Minuten schrieb George_PPS:

Just look at the massively declined player base.  Other games are growing numbers but Warframe is not growing but declining. It says all.

(Nov. 14th, the day the most recent melee rework has been delivered with update 26.0.7. The next big spike is Nov. 22nd, Update 26.1 "Rising Tide".)
Where are you getting your news, man? 

Sources:
Steamcharts https://steamcharts.com/app/230410#3m
Warframe Fandom 

[Teridax68]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

This is my last answer to you because you dont get the simple part of it that me and several others have pointed out.

They never promised you anything.

Since you cant understand even that, it is pointless to have any type of conversation with you.

And as many more people and DE themselves pointed out: they did. They made false promises and even forged a demo of a game that never existed. The developers told us they were going to do things they never did, and didn't tell us things they were going to do that severely displeased the playerbase. I myself have pointed this out at length with linked, timestamped evidence proving what I've said, whereas you have instead preferred to say the following:

On 2020-01-02 at 6:46 PM, SneakyErvin said:

I also cant see the unpolished game, nor the systemic issues (aside form liches). I've always had a smooth experience with WF, never had any real bugs outside of the first few days of empyrean.

So you are right: conversation is pointless, though not because of any lack of understanding on my part, but because you have chosen to argue on pure delusion, white knighting to such a ridiculous extreme that you have made it difficult for even other defenders of DE's case here to maintain their position. You have chosen to not only ignore evidence given, but outright lie and fabricate narratives at every turn, showing you clearly do not care about the truth here so much as attacking anyone who dares criticize the developers. On top of all this, though, you have failed to produce a single original argument for entire pages now, and have been reduced to repeating yourself, debating semantics, and refusing to acknowledge evidence even as it is handed to you and pre-digested to minimize the effort needed to understand it. If this is truly your last post here, good riddance.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Teridax68

[Vespilan]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb George_PPS:

You are free to be a royal white knight.

This is not about being a white knight. This is about dispelling rumors with straight facts. And this reaction shows I succeded in doing so.
Just because you don't like something doesn't mean the entire player base is "fleeing" all of a sudden. 

[LSG501]

3 hours ago, Vespilan said:

TL;DR: The recent "nerfs" encourage diversity and are overall buffs.

Ironically with the melee rework I'm using less melee weapons than before because I just don't like the stance reworks on some classes of weapons (polearms is a perfect example) and in all honesty I doubt they'll ever get looked at again so....  As for my builds, if anything I have less variation in their builds now too due to the way that they reworked certain mods....

 

[SneakyErvin]

3 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

And as many more people and DE themselves pointed out: they did. They made false promises and even forged a demo of a game that never existed. The developers told us they were going to do things they never did, and didn't tell us things they were going to do that severely displeased the playerbase. I myself have pointed this out at length with linked, timestamped evidence proving what I've said, whereas you have instead preferred to say the following:

So you are right: conversation is pointless, though not because of any lack of understanding on my part, but because you have chosen to argue on pure delusion, white knighting to such a ridiculous extreme that you have made it difficult for even other defenders of DE's case here to maintain their position. You have chosen to not only ignore evidence given, but outright lie and fabricate narratives at every turn, showing you clearly do not care about the truth here so much as attacking anyone who dares criticize the developers. On top of all this, though, you have failed to produce a single original argument for entire pages now, and have been reduced to repeating yourself, debating semantics, and refusing to acknowledge evidence even as it is handed to you and pre-digested to minimize the effort needed to understand it. If this is truly your last post here, good riddance.

Nope, that is just the part you dont get. What they've showcased was never ment to go live by the end of the year, only parts of it. There is no evidence in the video and you even completely miss my point about the liches. I'm going 100% on what we see in the video regarding liches and there is nothing special about them to be seen. Hence why the system looks even more bland than what we have on live. I think you fail to get my point. I'll sum it up really simple. Liches on live are bad, the lich in the video seems worse than bad. I personally dont want either of them. But I also dont hear DE promise anything special about the.

All I can do is look at the info sheet regarding the lich and see what it says. I'm not inventing anything, I'm looking at numbers in black and white regarding how drawn out the lich system that is used in the demo is. a handful of lich goons per day and a lich encounter every 10th day is not my idea of a good system. Sure I assume one thing, that the 72 days is an active lich hunt tracker and not just a days since spawn tracker. If it is a simple age tracker it is pointless since the system then comes out at the same time frame we have now i.e 300ish goon kills over 7 lich encounters. The rest of it is just fluff, like his ship and so on, same as the bland (to put it lightly) stolen skill. The demo lich is not a replacement for the crap we have. As for what we do have, it comes down to taste what parts we like. I like the idea of the kill sequence, I hate the idea regarding how we grind for it or trial and error it to get the combination right. Just as I find it bland and boring to face him on random maps.

Also, seriously, how can you even call it white knighting when I just dont agree with you point for point? Or call someone a whitenight for not having ran into troubles with the content releases? That is just so damn narrowminded. Would you prefer if I lied and said I had massive issues during the years with new content releases? Even the Ropalolyst that many people had serious glitch issues with ran perfectly fine for me. Could it be cos I ran it solo? Maybe. Could it be because I have a different rig setup than those with issues? Maybe. All I know is that I didnt have issues with it. Just as I havent experienced any prolonged black screens in Empyrean or other bigger issues there. Just as I never had issues with liches bugging out on Parazon interactions. So no, I cant see those issues others might have because I havent experienced them, just as I dont know what hardware/software they are using that may cause those issues to line up.

Regarding evidence, you should likely take your own advice since you seem to not look at the evidence in the video. You see something far better in that demo than what is shown. It sounds like you see it only so you can use it to claim we have a worse system that is live when reality shows the system in the demo would be even worse, which is damn near impossible to imagine to begin with.

[Teridax68]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Nope, that is just the part you dont get.

Speaking of not keeping one's promises:

9 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

This is my last answer to you

... what's up? What changed since your previous post?

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

What they've showcased was never ment to go live by the end of the year, only parts of it. There is no evidence in the video and you even completely miss my point about the liches. I'm going 100% on what we see in the video regarding liches and there is nothing special about them to be seen. Hence why the system looks even more bland than what we have on live.

Also, speaking of failing to understand the point, you have failed to understand the fact that I am not holding DE to the expectation that they'd deliver all of Empyrean's features by the end of 2019, though it is certainly not great that they gave us such a rushed update. What I am faulting DE for here is delivering a product that is fundamentally different from what was promised from the demo, not simply because of features that are missing from it, but because its core gameplay and balance differ from what we were promised. It is that simple.

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I think you fail to get my point. I'll sum it up really simple. Liches on live are bad, the lich in the video seems worse than bad. I personally dont want either of them. But I also dont hear DE promise anything special about the.

Oh, I got your point a long time ago, I just don't care. I have literally no reason to care about how you personally feel about Liches, because this is not a debate about your feelings, this is a debate about what DE said they'd deliver, and didn't deliver. In this particular case, it does not matter even an iota that you dislike the Lich presented in the demo, what matters is that the Kuva Lich system was clearly promised to provide entirely different gameplay from what we actually received. Even the Lich voice lines we have in the current game show this, and the clear discrepancy between fantasy and reality.

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

All I can do is look at the info sheet regarding the lich and see what it says. I'm not inventing anything, I'm looking at numbers in black and white regarding how drawn out the lich system that is used in the demo is. a handful of lich goons per day and a lich encounter every 10th day is not my idea of a good system.

It is good then that you are not a designer, as clearly many more disagree with you.

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Sure I assume one thing, that the 72 days is an active lich hunt tracker and not just a days since spawn tracker. If it is a simple age tracker it is pointless since the system then comes out at the same time frame we have now i.e 300ish goon kills over 7 lich encounters.

And that is already one assumption too many, as you are already here inventing this narrative about how the Lich worked in the demo that was never even suggested. You seem to be under the impression that you can make things true just by stating them, which is... not how it works.

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

The rest of it is just fluff, like his ship and so on, same as the bland (to put it lightly) stolen skill.

Fluff to you, for... which reason? They clearly announced those things as systems and mechanics we did not get. They're only fluff in the sense that they were just a handful of fake features in a fake demo.

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

The demo lich is not a replacement for the crap we have. As for what we do have, it comes down to taste what parts we like. I like the idea of the kill sequence, I hate the idea regarding how we grind for it or trial and error it to get the combination right. Just as I find it bland and boring to face him on random maps.

That's nice, but Liches and their implementation have received overwhelming backlash, so once again, there is no reason for anyone to care about your opinion here, so much as the facts at hand.

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Also, seriously, how can you even call it white knighting when I just dont agree with you point for point? Or call someone a whitenight for not having ran into troubles with the content releases? That is just so damn narrowminded.

No, "narrowminded" is being so deathly afraid of someone criticizing the developers of your favorite game that you pull them into a lengthy, pointless, and exhausting argument in an attempt to silence them, without ever even pretending to listen to them. The problem isn't that you disagree with me, it's that your opinion is so obviously delusional, so visibly opposed to all fact, logic, or common sense, it beggars belief as to how you even hope for anyone to even humor you. Again, when you produce pearls such as these:

On 2020-01-02 at 5:46 PM, SneakyErvin said:

I also cant see the unpolished game, nor the systemic issues (aside form liches). I've always had a smooth experience with WF, never had any real bugs outside of the first few days of empyrean.

It's obvious that you're white knighting, and in no particularly subtle manner either.

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Would you prefer if I lied and said I had massive issues during the years with new content releases? Even the Ropalolyst that many people had serious glitch issues with ran perfectly fine for me. Could it be cos I ran it solo? Maybe. Could it be because I have a different rig setup than those with issues? Maybe. All I know is that I didnt have issues with it. Just as I havent experienced any prolonged black screens in Empyrean or other bigger issues there. Just as I never had issues with liches bugging out on Parazon interactions. So no, I cant see those issues others might have because I havent experienced them, just as I dont know what hardware/software they are using that may cause those issues to line up.

I mean, you could have told the truth, as Warframe is such a notoriously buggy game that you claiming never to have encountered any technical issues already raises an eyebrow, but better yet... you could have just said nothing. Even on the off-chance that you miraculously never encountered even a single bug in Warframe, that does not prevent the fact that the game is infamous for its lack of polish and technical issues, so your anecdotal experience is an extreme outlier that does not meaningfully contribute to discussion. This is something you should be aware of, but once again, you instead decided to put forth your unsupported opinion as if it were worth something in this discussion. As a result, not only did you fail to make any sort of convincing point, you permanently damaged your credibility, and painted yourself as a blatantly obvious white knight to anyone reading this conversation, even someone who may not have the time or patience to read through the rest of your posts.

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Regarding evidence, you should likely take your own advice since you seem to not look at the evidence in the video. You see something far better in that demo than what is shown.

Where? Point to any inaccuracies or exaggerations I made. As it stands, this pathetic attempt at a "no u" carries particularly little weight when I can point once again to the timestamps supporting my every claim regarding what the demo promised.

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

It sounds like you see it only so you can use it to claim we have a worse system that is live when reality shows the system in the demo would be even worse, which is damn near impossible to imagine to begin with.

... to you. Ultimately I am not even placing any value judgment on the demo, I am simply pointing out that players generally liked it (that is a fact), but generally don't like what we currently have (also a fact), and so due to features that fundamentally differ from the demo (a fact, pointed out at length). Moreover, it is a particularly weak argument to claim that the majorly unpopular system we have now is somehow acceptable because it's supposedly better than this other version we never got. At the end of the day, even if DE had never announced Railjack or Kuva Liches, or given us any footage of them before, what they gave us in the end is rushed, buggy, and grindy content. It has visibly not gone down well with the playerbase. So in the end, whining about how players are being unfair by holding DE accountable to their hype is useless, as it misses the point that the playerbase is not especially happy with the developers right now, and would like to see major improvements to the content we've received. If those improvements could make the content play a little more like how we expected it to when we were presented that demo, all the better.

[SneakyErvin]

16 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

I mean, you could have told the truth, as Warframe is such a notoriously buggy game that you claiming never to have encountered any technical issues already raises an eyebrow, but better yet... you could have just said nothing. Even on the off-chance that you miraculously never encountered even a single bug in Warframe, that does not prevent the fact that the game is infamous for its lack of polish and technical issues, so your anecdotal experience is an extreme outlier that does not meaningfully contribute to discussion. This is something you should be aware of, but once again, you instead decided to put forth your unsupported opinion as if it were worth something in this discussion. As a result, not only did you fail to make any sort of convincing point, you permanently damaged your credibility, and painted yourself as a blatantly obvious white knight to anyone reading this conversation, even someone who may not have the time or patience to read through the rest of your posts.

The truth it that I've had no major problems since I started playing, neither on my previous PC or this one. The problems I had with my previous PC were problems I'd expect to have with the PC I ran it on. All it took to fix those small issues were some changes in the graphic settings for me, then it was smooth sailing. As for bugs, we all experience bugs, but I've never experienced a notable bug. You are also aware that opinions dont need support right, because opinions arent fact. I'm speaking from my own experience i.e my opinion on the matter based on what I've been though with the game. I've also never heard of the infamous WF. I've heard quite the opposite when playing other game prior to even picking WF up. It was always praised as a well polished game with unique ideas due to using their own engine and their own IP.

As for your comments earlier on. I've been as critical to the lich presentation we have in the game as several others. We've only had minor difference of opinion regarding what is good and bad about it. Because people like different things. And there are few things I like about the system. For me it kinda comes down to liking the parazon+kill command idea i.e needing 3 different kill words in the right sequence to capture or kill the lich. I also like the aestethics of the liches because they look #*!%ed up. The rest of it, well that is kinda bottom of the barrel. If you had really kept up with the complaints regarding liches you would have seen that the major complaints were about the auto-death, group unfriendly mechanics, weapon RNG and that the sequence unlock was tedious aswell as the liches are just re-using planetary assets i.e missions. Few complaints have been about their skills and perks, or that they dont outright steal specific skills. The forums were filled with "kill your liches!" and "I dont wanna be forced to die since that doesnt mean challenge!" for a few weeks after the release and little else.

I'm also not sure you understand what fluff is. You seem to wholeheartedly think that there was some deeper meaning with the whole ship commander lich thing, when it really was just fluff i.e filler story to explain why he shows up on a ship. Or more specifically, something that has absolutely no impact on the actual gameplay outcome or mechanics. If he was actually commanding the ship it would have been an awesome perk for him cos it would have made a difference, but as it was in the demo there was no point to it.

[Teridax68]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

The truth it that I've had no major problems since I started playing, neither on my previous PC or this one. The problems I had with my previous PC were problems I'd expect to have with the PC I ran it on. All it took to fix those small issues were some changes in the graphic settings for me, then it was smooth sailing. As for bugs, we all experience bugs, but I've never experienced a notable bug. You are also aware that opinions dont need support right, because opinions arent fact. I'm speaking from my own experience i.e my opinion on the matter based on what I've been though with the game. I've also never heard of the infamous WF. I've heard quite the opposite when playing other game prior to even picking WF up. It was always praised as a well polished game with unique ideas due to using their own engine and their own IP.

Indeed, opinions aren't fact, which is why I am still struggling to understand why you expect anyone here to value your opinion, particularly as it is so hilariously divergent from the facts. As it stands, you have spent over 2k hours on this game, been exposed to plenty of media showing its bugs (including some I linked to you), and made over 4k posts on these forums: for you to claim to never have experienced any bugs in Warframe you couldn't blame on your PC (???), or heard of Warframe's reputation for bugs or roughness around the edges, shows not a unique experience with the game, but lying pure and simple, especially as your other posts do mention the existence of bugs. Again, I do not see what results you expected with such a laughable degree of hyperbole, as your opinion here is either so incredibly uncommon it carries no general applicability, or just flat-out mendacious.

Quote

As for your comments earlier on. I've been as critical to the lich presentation we have in the game as several others. We've only had minor difference of opinion regarding what is good and bad about it. Because people like different things. And there are few things I like about the system. For me it kinda comes down to liking the parazon+kill command idea i.e needing 3 different kill words in the right sequence to capture or kill the lich. I also like the aestethics of the liches because they look #*!%ed up. The rest of it, well that is kinda bottom of the barrel. If you had really kept up with the complaints regarding liches you would have seen that the major complaints were about the auto-death, group unfriendly mechanics, weapon RNG and that the sequence unlock was tedious aswell as the liches are just re-using planetary assets i.e missions. Few complaints have been about their skills and perks, or that they dont outright steal specific skills. The forums were filled with "kill your liches!" and "I dont wanna be forced to die since that doesnt mean challenge!" for a few weeks after the release and little else.

If you agree with me on Liches, why fight me on them? Would it not be more productive to unite our criticism of the current system and demand something better? Surely you must realize how pointless it is to argue for argument's sake.

Quote

I'm also not sure you understand what fluff is. You seem to wholeheartedly think that there was some deeper meaning with the whole ship commander lich thing, when it really was just fluff i.e filler story to explain why he shows up on a ship. Or more specifically, something that has absolutely no impact on the actual gameplay outcome or mechanics. If he was actually commanding the ship it would have been an awesome perk for him cos it would have made a difference, but as it was in the demo there was no point to it.

I'm perfectly aware of what fluff is, I'm just questioning where you got the impression that the text was fluff: by the demo's own presentations, that "fluff" was meant to be an actual set of features, where different Liches would specialize in different classes, on top of stealing and using an ability from the player's progenitor warframe. Both were systems DE said Liches would have, and thus it was reasonable to expect them on release. In the end, the only reason those systems are "fluff" is because DE lied about them, and had never implemented them to begin with despite telling us otherwise. Even you seem to implicitly acknowledge this, as ultimately the point you seem to be trying to make here is that DE never meant what they said -- something I am pointing out as a problem.

On 2020-01-04 at 2:13 PM, Vespilan said:

Just to quickly butt in, your graph shows Warframe's performance over the years, on top of the time period you specifically picked out, and the current numbers are noticeably lower than 2019, 2018, and much of 2017. More specifically, the numbers dropped from about 90k to 60k from last November to now: that's an approximately one-third drop, which is pretty bad already, but is made even worse by the fact that the peak last year was around 120k players in March, and the graph shows a pretty steady decline since. Given that the latest bout of decline follows immediately from two major updates that were meant to significantly boost playtime, this is especially worrying (in fact, it was right after The Old Blood that Warframe dropped off the top 10 most played games on Steam for the first time). Thus, we can't simply stick our heads in the sand here; we need to acknowledge that something went wrong, and it needs to be fixed. Warframe is clearly capable of growing a lot more, and having many more players -- it just needs to find its footing again.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Teridax68

[Vespilan]

@Teridax68 That the graph may be steadily declining is out of question, you are right with that, everyone who looked at the lower graph can tell as much. My point was to prove that there wasn't some sort of drastic sag in the playhours right after the melee changes. 
This is just the way it is with games. The hype dies down eventually. It's a natural thing. Melee rework and Rising Tide didn't really give much content to do. Rising Tide was literally just crafting ship parts. Empyrean did give some content and there you can see the graph ever so slightly rising again. Nothing compared to 2018, of course, but still.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Vespilan

[Teridax68]

3 minutes ago, Vespilan said:

This is just the way it is with games. The hype dies down eventually. It's a natural thing. Melee rework and Rising Tide didn't really give much content to do. Rising Tide was literally just crafting ship parts. Empyrean did give some content and there you can see the graph ever so slightly rising again. Nothing compared to 2018, of course, but still.

I don't think the problem is that the hype died down, so much as the content we got failed to live up to the hype: Empyrean and Liches were the systems a lot of players were looking forward to, so it's not surprising then that many players stopped when they released in a state that many didn't deem fit for purpose. 

[Vespilan]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Teridax68:

Empyrean and Liches were the systems a lot of players were looking forward to, so it's not surprising then that many players stopped when they released in a state that many didn't deem fit for purpose. 

I can totally see how people are disappointed but I feel we sometimes forget; DE does not owe us anything. They are not legally bound to deliver exactly what shown by some contract as they would be for instance with platinum purchases. There was a time where DE would give out as little detail about future updates as they could, no release dates, not even estimates, no nothing because of this very reason; Things change and people feel disappointed. Railjack is nice. It is fun to play. We (or I atleast) did not even know how exactly it would be tied in with existing Warframe content and considering past mayor updates, is it really a surprise it does not tie in at all? 

Railjack needs work especially in the balancing ressource department (which is under heavy rebalancing btw), the parts balance department and just straight up, was with every update, the bug fixing department. It isn't what we expected. But this is a F2P game and for a F2P it's darn epic.

TL;DR: I see your point, our point, but see theirs aswell.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

On 2019-12-28 at 10:52 PM, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

This game is not free, I do not care what anyone says.  If you don't spend money to get slots in your first few MR ranks you are going to have a BAD time.

Have you heard of the trading mechanic?

[Teridax68]

3 hours ago, Vespilan said:

I can totally see how people are disappointed but I feel we sometimes forget; DE does not owe us anything. They are not legally bound to deliver exactly what shown by some contract as they would be for instance with platinum purchases. There was a time where DE would give out as little detail about future updates as they could, no release dates, not even estimates, no nothing because of this very reason; Things change and people feel disappointed. Railjack is nice. It is fun to play. We (or I atleast) did not even know how exactly it would be tied in with existing Warframe content and considering past mayor updates, is it really a surprise it does not tie in at all? 

By that same token, though, we do not owe DE our play time or monetary purchases, which are ultimately what keep the game (and the studio) afloat. There is perhaps not a legal contract stipulating DE owes us quality content, but there is certainly a tacit agreement in which the playerbase consents to boosting DE's statistics and giving the studio money on the assumption that they give us reason to do so -- namely by giving us enjoyable content to play, or at least the promise of an amazing game in the foreseeable future. This has largely been the case, to the point where the standard of quality has risen over the years. In turn, though, this has meant that things previously acceptable no longer are now: perhaps it was okay at a certain point in time for DE to be short on details with their updates, or to give us lots of filler, because for a time what Warframe needed was just as much content pumped out as quickly as possible. Now, however, players expect better: it's not enough to simply make big promises and expect us to give DE money on pure faith; we are at a point where we genuinely expect DE to deliver, and let us play a game that lives up to the amazing vision the developers have shared with us. We also expect more polish, which is also why DE have put more effort recently into so many reworks. Thus, when DE hypes us up, expecting their players to commit on a promise, it is only natural that when that hype turns out to be largely empty or exaggerated, it would damage player commitment and goodwill.

I think what's also caused this recent shift in goodwill is that much of the playerbase realizes we cannot keep making excuses for DE forever simply because the game has the potential to be significantly better: at this point, DE clearly have the resources they'd been short on for so long, so really, all that is left to do is for DE to set themselves a proper schedule, brave whichever loud minority of the playerbase will inevitably oppose their balance changes, and start producing updates that implement proper longevity and a new standard of quality. This is what players expected in 2019, and this is something DE showed they could deliver with the Jovian Concord update. For them to disappoint so thoroughly with The Old Blood and Empyrean only speaks to a problem in their development ethic and production pipeline, one we've seen many times before: DE still seem convinced that they need to rush out content as fast as possible, rather than take more time to give us truly good content, whereas the playerbase has largely been asking for the exact opposite. Content that was meant to tie the game together, and advance it to a new level of depth, has instead turned out to be only more of the same, i.e. isolated sections of content for players to grind, then abandon eventually, and safely ignore from then on until more items are added. In this respect, 2020 is going to be a deciding year for the direction DE decides to take with Warframe: in order to regain the player trust they've lost, they're going to have to change the pace at which they give us big updates, and put quality over quantity, but this is going to mean changing their development culture at some fundamental level. If that fails, and the developers still choose to rush out half-baked content, the game is likely to keep heading in an unsustainable direction, which would be a shame given how promising Warframe still is to this day.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Teridax68

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

By that same token, though, we do not owe DE our play time or monetary purchases, which are ultimately what keep the game (and the studio) afloat. There is perhaps not a legal contract stipulating DE owes us quality content, but there is certainly a tacit agreement in which the playerbase consents to boosting DE's statistics and giving the studio money on the assumption that they give us reason to do so -- namely by giving us enjoyable content to play, or at least the promise of an amazing game in the foreseeable future. This has largely been the case, to the point where the standard of quality has risen over the years. In turn, though, this has meant that things previously acceptable no longer are now: perhaps it was okay at a certain point in time for DE to be short on details with their updates, or to give us lots of filler, because for a time what Warframe needed was just as much content pumped out as quickly as possible. Now, however, players expect better: it's not enough to simply make big promises and expect us to give DE money on pure faith; we are at a point where we genuinely expect DE to deliver, and let us play a game that lives up to the amazing vision the developers have shared with us. We also expect more polish, which is also why DE have put more effort recently into so many reworks. Thus, when DE hypes us up, expecting their players to commit on a promise, it is only natural that when that hype turns out to be largely empty or exaggerated, it would damage player commitment and goodwill.

I think what's also caused this recent shift in goodwill is that much of the playerbase realizes we cannot keep making excuses for DE forever simply because the game has the potential to be significantly better: at this point, DE clearly have the resources they'd been short on for so long, so really, all that is left to do is for DE to set themselves a proper schedule, brave whichever loud minority of the playerbase will inevitably oppose their balance changes, and start producing updates that implement proper longevity and a new standard of quality. This is what players expected in 2019, and this is something DE showed they could deliver with the Jovian Concord update. For them to disappoint so thoroughly with The Old Blood and Empyrean only speaks to a problem in their development ethic and production pipeline, one we've seen many times before: DE still seem convinced that they need to rush out content as fast as possible, rather than take more time to give us truly good content, whereas the playerbase has largely been asking for the exact opposite. Content that was meant to tie the game together, and advance it to a new level of depth, have instead turned out to be only more of the same, i.e. isolated sections of content for players to grind, then abandon eventually, and safely ignore from then on until more items are added. In this respect, 2020 is going to be a deciding year for the direction DE decides to take with Warframe: in order to regain the player trust they've lost, they're going to have to change the pace at which they give us big updates, and put quality over quantity, but this is going to mean changing their development culture at some fundamental level. If that fails, and the developers still choose to rush out half-baked content, the game is likely to keep heading in an unsustainable direction, which would be a shame given how promising Warframe still is to this day.

I

I’ve been playing this game for over 2 years, and have brought ever prime access since , because I loved the game and liked the developers. I did buy in to the hype, and now I not only feel disappointed, and feel deceived. I no longer look in the developers in the same light,

Just because you lie to me with a smile on your face, doesn’t make it less a lie. And the outcome will be that I will no longer buy prime access.  My mane point is, what you have written here sums up perfectly the way I myself and many feel. We are not entitled brats, we are paying customers.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

10 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

I don't think the problem is that the hype died down, so much as the content we got failed to live up to the hype: Empyrean and Liches were the systems a lot of players were looking forward to, so it's not surprising then that many players stopped when they released in a state that many didn't deem fit for purpose. 

I have to disagree here. Looking at the chart again, the 2018-2019 years were the same years where YouTuber vets like Rio decided to begin a negative campaign due to the lack of endgame content. That negativity expanded progressively to false but click-baiting headlines like "content drought", "nothing to do", "warframe is dying", "I'm quitting", etc. Fast forward to now, with PLENTY of things to do, the dark cloud over youtubers and some posters now go so far as to complain about not getting rewards easily, not being able to one shot enemies in Railjack and having to work for better rewards.