Why an auction house/market won't work

[0_The_F00l]

1 hour ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

Yep a  EA employee, not alowing players to get all they plat they paid for is a scumbag move. Auction houses are for lazy inconsiderate players. DE will never do such thing as it doesn't keep people playing the game.

You seem to assume the presence of an AH would be mutually exclusive or a replacement to trade chat, anyone that does not wish to pay the tax could very well keep using what is currently present.

Lazy ? perhaps ,assuming anyone that spends hours on the tradechat to milk players ignorant of the market rates is a hard worker, and anyone else is lazy. I would like to think of it as convenient and informative.

inconsiderate? i dont see how ,care to elaborate?.

DE will do what is suitable to it as a business they have mentioned they have not made any plans, but it does not mean they cant change their mind,

1 hour ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

 But keep thinking of terrible ideas that replaces something that isn't broken EA gremlin.

*Scurries away and brings back a different topic*

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by 0_The_F00l
typos

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

8 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I do agree in essence that the trade being more efficient than the actual gameplay loop , that has less fun attached to it, is part of the problem,

If there is less fun to be had there will be fewer players irrespective of the convenience of trading.

My main reason for suggesting the AH still remains:

1) A passive plat sink to encourage more purchases and ensure DE profits are sustained,

2) A means to acquire things more conveniently for players.

Most things being cheaper is good for 2, Few things being expensive may be good for 1.

What it will definitely affect is the players that are used to acquiring plat as a means to skip everything.

Down to Throwing insults are we? oh well.

Yet you use that as a means to extend your argument , convenient.

You are , as you have implied with your comments , if i am incorrect please do share any suggestions to improve the trade.

I disagree, and remain unconvinced.

Your life to do with as you wish my friend. Validity of my suggestions remains a theoretical construct, My understanding of economies is also quite sufficient for my region , it may be unsuitable for yours i understand , so perhaps use your own advice and not see the whole world the same way. If it can negatively affect you , does it not stand to reason it can affect some other region positively?

Let me break down the suggestion i made as i suppose it might be difficult to comprehend:

I have money (little as it may be) -

     Do i spend it on plat?

            If yes then i have plat to buy things with to make things more convenient and less grindy.

            If no , then i would need to be satisfied with having fewer things of convenience or grind a lot more.

Hope that clears the actual suggestions made, and i already follow this method and it suits me fine.

What you suggested:

Dont spend any money.

Do you realize how it is different and arbitrary?

You say the above , but at the same time you say,

You haven't really thought this through have you?

I dont see the details about this , just the OP stating it and you refuting it ,

we too have recurring demand in the form of new primes and vaulting, though to a lesser degree.

I didnt really say what your governments was , you are free to your opinions just as Plato was free to his.

No direct impact on the current discussion , but ok.

You would rather the system have no balance check and controls? Why would i even suggest it? Thats the equivalent of saying if i need to cook my food before eating then food is bad, or if seat belts are needed then driving is a bad concept.

The Tax is indeed in place to avoid the problems you are trying to highlight. Its like you are so dead set on Disliking AH you do not want to see how those issues can be resolved.

I am resting assured that i disagree with you.

It would indeed have been seen as immature for sure , just as immature as giving the example of a pig with make up i imagine.

I am not sure what you mean by this , i was highlighting the inability of either of us to gauge the public opinion without a specific means to survey them, You are the one that started with the request to observe the responses, and now you are changing your tone.

Neither will saying "this is fine" when it is not.

i am not here to fix the worlds economy problems, i am here to suggest a more convenient means to acquire goods in the game.

you have attempted to , unsuccessfully so far.

Down to insulting , i see , i remain firm on my stand that an AH (with the caveats i suggested) would improve the situation of trading , calling me a child does not change it.

Seriously your post is nonsense and you're trying to pretend that "it's my opinion" makes it less so. 

You quoted partial chunks and make arguments directly answered in the rest of the post you quoted. 

The system you are asking for is a bad idea. The attempt to fix it by attaching a taxation plan is an attempt to put makeup on a pig.  And in case you don't know it, that's a common idiom in the English language, so you can take your ridiculous attempt to call it immature and put it on the rubbish heap with the rest of the ridiculous things you have been saying. 

Further, you attempt to shift the onus of coming up with a better system to us because all you have is a crappy system that we've explained repeatedly is no good. You make the claim that we oppose all change. We don't need to come up with alternatives to the terrible system you are proposing, because all we're opposed to is a BAD change. 

Your selfish attitude to this whole thing is blinding you. You want a change to your benefit you, but it's coming at a cost to the game in general. If the game in general does worse, we ALL lose in the long run. 

And seriously learn how to read and comprehend what you read, then you can move on to a basic economics textbook. Then maybe go into business in a management position so that you can get a little bit of experience seeing how changes that you like the idea of, which hurt the business in the long term, are a really bad idea. 

When you're at that point, come back and look at your posts, and see how ridiculous your childish "I don't care, because I want it and that's all that matters to me, everything you say is just your opinion" attitude is. 

[Oreades]

The only reason a Marketplace might not work for Warframe is the truth that the in game economy is already a dumpster fire and the only thing holding it together is the duct tape of obfuscation that tradechat being such a needless hassle that most people don't bother with any regularity. 

Outside of that possible self admission, there really wouldn't be much standing in the way of a marketplace. 

[Methanoid]

Whatever rubbish reason DE tells the masses about an auction house should just be ignored, we all know why there isnt an auction house, and that is simply because an auction house will affect plat purchases, auction houses in any game always encourages undercutting the sales prices when people want a quick sale, undercutting = lower prices, lower prices = less plat needed to buy, less plat bought = less money for DE.  The current manual system and "fear of missing out" means sale prices remain nice and high.

its that simple, no convoluted or drawn out reasons, its simply just money/income related.

Edited February 2, 2020 by Methanoid

[0_The_F00l]

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Seriously your post is nonsense and you're trying to pretend that "it's my opinion" makes it less so. 

I disagree, 

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

. You quoted partial chunks and make arguments directly answered in the rest of the post you quoted. 

Pot calling the kettle black? 

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

. The system you are asking for is a bad idea. 

According to you, I disagree. 

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

. The attempt to fix it by attaching a taxation plan is an attempt to put makeup on a pig.  

Again it's your opinion that it's Abad idea cause you will likely loose out on the means to farm plat. 

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

 And in case you don't know it, that's a common idiom in the English language, so you can take your ridiculous attempt to call it immature and put it on the rubbish heap with the rest of the ridiculous things you have been saying. 

Thanks for clarifying never bad to learn things.

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

. 

Further, you attempt to shift the onus of coming up with a better system to us because all you have is a crappy system that we've explained repeatedly is no good. 

I ha e already given a suggestion, you don't like it, that's fine, but you are not coming up with an alternative, preferring to use obscurity as a means to have relevance. 

It is not good for you as a player that gains plat using lack of knowledge of the market. 

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

. You make the claim that we oppose all change. We don't need to come up with alternatives to the terrible system you are proposing, because all we're opposed to is a BAD change. 

BAD for you I am sure. 

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

. Your selfish attitude to this whole thing is blinding you. 

I feel the same about you. 

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

. You want a change to your benefit you, but it's coming at a cost to the game in general. 

The cost is to players like you. 

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

. If the game in general does worse, we ALL lose in the long run. 

True, but I don't believe my suggestions will make it worse in the long run. 

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

. 

And seriously learn how to read and comprehend what you read, then you can move on to a basic economics textbook. 

I am sufficiently qualified and educated to understand economics, you fail to understand that basic economics would not be applicable to the game as I have mentioned before. 

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

. Then maybe go into business in a management position so that you can get a little bit of experience seeing how changes that you like the idea of, which hurt the business in the long term, are a really bad idea. 

My business experience, as mentioned before, is my business. And you assume I don't already have this experience. 

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

. 

When you're at that point, come back and look at your posts, and see how ridiculous your childish "I don't care, because I want it and that's all that matters to me, everything you say is just your opinion" attitude is. 

Since you have already suggested reading and comprehending, perhaps use your own advice and comprehend what I am actually saying. 

"I do not care about players that will lose their Plat making schemes based on ignorance" 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

8 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I ha e already given a suggestion, you don't like it, that's fine, but you are not coming up with an alternative, preferring to use obscurity as a means to have relevance. 

It is not good for you as a player that gains plat using lack of knowledge of the market. 

I'm ignoring the rubbish that came before this as most of it is you trying to pretend that your "opinion" can be considered valid despite the facts going against you. 

The claim that we must offer an alternative in order to consider your suggestion bad has already been dealt with. No alternative is needed for your suggestion to be judged bad based on the economic principles that apply to our in game economy, or to the gaming industry. 

The strawman argument that you are making here and later in your post, is also nonsense. I am far more likely to give items away than sell it. If memory serves you estimated that about 1/5th of your plat came from trades? It's probably less than 1% for me. 

How can that be? I've bought a few prime accesses and so gotten lumpsums of plat. Most of my player trading is me buying prime junk in bulk for ducats, often for slightly higher than the going rate. I end up with quite a few duplicate sets, which, along with the syndicate mods that I ended up collecting, represent the majority of the stuff I give away. Most of my market purchases are slots and I don't care about most cosmetics, but that new Gara skin looks mighty sweet so I may splurge for it, who knows. When I have bought specific items from a player, I'll often get it for below warframe.market rates. 

I'm already in a position where I can see how desperate people are for a pittance of plat. There is absolutely no question that an auction house system will have people lowballing one another, in order to try and get the buyer's attention. 

Personally I have doubts that even a taxation scheme will prevent the Tragedy of the Commons from taking root, but I haven't raised any fuss over those doubts, because that IS a personal opinion and one that MAY turn out to be wrong. Notice how I am basing my predictions on actual observations and considerations and didn't just stick my fingers in my ears and scream "that's just your opinion man"? There's a lesson in that, for sure. 

34 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

True, but I don't believe my suggestions will make it worse in the long run. 

Again not believing that the world is round, is not ever going to make it flat. 

36 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I am sufficiently qualified and educated to understand economics, you fail to understand that basic economics would not be applicable to the game as I have mentioned before. 

Go back and read what we wrote. We have taken the lack of repeat demand into consideration. And no that term does not mean "people who buy new Primes when they come out". 

37 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

My business experience, as mentioned before, is my business. And you assume I don't already have this experience. 

You seem to have very little business, talking about business experience. 

38 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Since you have already suggested reading and comprehending, perhaps use your own advice and comprehend what I am actually saying. 

"I do not care about players that will lose their Plat making schemes based on ignorance" 

Keep trying to understand Tenno. It's only February, I'm sure you'll get it eventually. 

[Leavith]

On 2020-01-31 at 12:04 AM, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Generally speaking....

You want an Auction House?

Here is my step process....

Make a Clan & set up rules

Let people know what your clan is about

Recruit smartly and only people you know

Get reputable and even get some propaganda from YouTubers about what you all about

Then... Gather investors and provide trades for collateral.

Once you fully established you are now the auction house and can expand with what you provide 

For starters the most basic thing you can provide is your clan will market the trades of individual that invest in you 24/7

The next service is that you will also seek to make connections with other frequent sellers (merchants) to always have a specific supply of part and even if you feel the need to control the supply.

Of course once you are well known you can open auction houses standards where you make youtube video show the goods and then through discord have your bets.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

44 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I'm ignoring the rubbish that came before this as most of it is you trying to pretend that your "opinion" can be considered valid despite the facts going against you. 

The claim that we must offer an alternative in order to consider your suggestion bad has already been dealt with. No alternative is needed for your suggestion to be judged bad based on the economic principles that apply to our in game economy, or to the gaming industry. 

The strawman argument that you are making here and later in your post, is also nonsense. I am far more likely to give items away than sell it. If memory serves you estimated that about 1/5th of your plat came from trades? It's probably less than 1% for me. 

How can that be? I've bought a few prime accesses and so gotten lumpsums of plat. Most of my player trading is me buying prime junk in bulk for ducats, often for slightly higher than the going rate. I end up with quite a few duplicate sets, which, along with the syndicate mods that I ended up collecting, represent the majority of the stuff I give away. Most of my market purchases are slots and I don't care about most cosmetics, but that new Gara skin looks mighty sweet so I may splurge for it, who knows. When I have bought specific items from a player, I'll often get it for below warframe.market rates. 

I'm already in a position where I can see how desperate people are for a pittance of plat. There is absolutely no question that an auction house system will have people lowballing one another, in order to try and get the buyer's attention. 

Personally I have doubts that even a taxation scheme will prevent the Tragedy of the Commons from taking root, but I haven't raised any fuss over those doubts, because that IS a personal opinion and one that MAY turn out to be wrong. Notice how I am basing my predictions on actual observations and considerations and didn't just stick my fingers in my ears and scream "that's just your opinion man"? There's a lesson in that, for sure. 

Again not believing that the world is round, is not ever going to make it flat. 

Go back and read what we wrote. We have taken the lack of repeat demand into consideration. And no that term does not mean "people who buy new Primes when they come out". 

You seem to have very little business, talking about business experience. 

Keep trying to understand Tenno. It's only February, I'm sure you'll get it eventually. 

He's rage baiting trying to get a thread locked at this point just ignore him and engage with civil people 

[0_The_F00l]

32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I'm ignoring the rubbish that came before this as most of it is you trying to pretend that your "opinion" can be considered valid despite the facts going against you. 

 

Ah so when you ignore things it's OK, others cannot, gotcha. 

33 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

. The claim that we must offer an alternative in order to consider your suggestion bad has already been dealt with. No alternative is needed for your suggestion to be judged bad based on the economic principles that apply to our in game economy, or to the gaming industry. 

You are right you don't need to provide an alternative, if you are happy in the current situation where taking advantage of the un informed is better for you. 

35 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

. 

The strawman argument that you are making here and later in your post, is also nonsense. I am far more likely to give items away than sell it. If memory serves you estimated that about 1/5th of your plat came from trades? It's probably less than 1% for me. 

How can that be? I've bought a few prime accesses and so gotten lumpsums of plat. Most of my player trading is me buying prime junk in bulk for ducats, often for slightly higher than the going rate. I end up with quite a few duplicate sets, which, along with the syndicate mods that I ended up collecting, represent the majority of the stuff I give away. Most of my market purchases are slots and I don't care about most cosmetics, but that new Gara skin looks mighty sweet so I may splurge for it, who knows. When I have bought specific items from a player, I'll often get it for below warframe.market rates. 

I am sorry, but didn't you say your economic Condition is such that it is difficult for you to acquire platinum by purchasing it? Or were you referring to people not yourself? And here you are mentioning purchasing PA, one of the most expensive items available (but relatively efficient from plat to $ conversion) . 

And if you are giving away items ie 0p sales, why hasn't the economy crashed already? 

Your own example is a poor one, if even true. 

And the amount of plat even in a single PA of 50$ would be more than enough for 50 warframe slots, 

Maybe not bring up an external marketplace and AH into discussion to compare rates if you want to refute it's benefits. 

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

 I'm already in a position where I can see how desperate people are for a pittance of plat. There is absolutely no question that an auction house system will have people lowballing one another, in order to try and get the buyer's attention. 

They are desperate cause there is artificial scarcity of items that raise prices. 

I am perfectly happy with players lowballing so the items are easier to acquire. 

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

. 

Personally I have doubts that even a taxation scheme will prevent the Tragedy of the Commons from taking root, but I haven't raised any fuss over those doubts, because that IS a personal opinion and one that MAY turn out to be wrong. Notice how I am basing my predictions on actual observations and considerations and didn't just stick my fingers in my ears and scream "that's just your opinion man"? There's a lesson in that, for sure. 

You are free to have your doubts, and as I said, it is one balance check, 

I have also suggested a minimum Plat value and a sliding taxation % on specific items. 

It is only now that you are stating that you have doubts, and not absolute certainty of failure, which I can acknowledge, doubts can be healthy if channeled well.

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

 Again not believing that the world is round, is not ever going to make it flat. 

Before galileos time people believed the sun revolved around the earth as a fact as well. 

You keep coming back to the same issue, you claim what you are stating is unchangeable fact, when it is not, there can be a better way. A more informed way to trade. 

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

. Go back and read what we wrote. We have taken the lack of repeat demand into consideration. And no that term does not mean "people who buy new Primes when they come out". 

So you say, I do not believe you. 

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You seem to have very little business, talking about business experience. 

You are free to your opinions, wrong as they may be. 

Especially when you are basing it upon a conversation about an arbitrary economy system.

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Keep trying to understand Tenno. It's only February, I'm sure you'll get it eventually. 

Understand what? That you are unable to differentiate between what is written and what you have interpreted? 

[Leavith]

Before any implementation of DE they need to consider

where the support for the game comes from.

When we have an answer we must consider

how is what supporting the game being use

Why?---

Because if our plan denies DE method to make money through it's destine to fail because taking the methods of cash flow for a company hurts it.

If the plan doesn't encourage the player to support the game then is also destined to fail because the work is pointless.

.......... These are valid points that need to be address with your idea... And i will be honest i avoided reading the wall of text.

Make a model with the most basic way we give money to DE... Plat and now apply it to the market and trade market.

Market----

A player sees something he want but can't have yet.

He has the funding and pays DE for plat.

He uses the plat to buy from the market what he wants.

DE is happy & The Player is happy.... The method DE used to make money was making a digital product and making a digital currency to buy the digital product. We buy the digital currency from DE and we buy from DE using the digital currency the product.

Trade Market-----

A player sees something he wants but has to trade for.

He understands he can maybe trade other things for it but the buyer is adamant he prefers plat.

The player has to make two choices, sell things himself for plat to gain plat, or buy plat from DE.

Either way plat will be exchange... But unlike the first time one choice removes our personal interaction with DE and in fact doesn't contribute directly to people buying plat from DE.

However all plat has to come from somewhere so DE is happy, but not all trade is done via bought plat but exchanged plat which doesn't net DE any further money besides the initial payment.

However no matter how many trades the players that trade see the important of plat.

Each method still encourages players to buy plat from DE, but it also encourages to exchange work for plat. It doesn't undermine DE method to make money and still encourages the player to support DE.

---------

Now with your IDEA OP how would does it add up?

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by Leavith

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

3 minutes ago, Leavith said:

These are valid points that need to be address with your

I respect your post! But it's kinda counter-intuitive if you didn't read the text because I did cover some of it 

[Leavith]

1 minute ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

I respect your post! But it's kinda counter-intuitive if you didn't read the text because I did cover some of it 

Honestly, we five pages in while I would love to read it i think it should be organize in a way that it target the specific reasons people would use to detain back the idea of an auction house.

Do a pro and con for DE not the player and then do a pro and con for the player.

Because lets give everyone an extra ability to there warframe sounds like a good idea for the player, but how does that benefit DE? It's gonna be work they will put in.

Similar to this, an auction house it works in other game and sounds good as a way to organize and manage trades, but will the work make a difference with DE.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

He's rage baiting trying to get a thread locked at this point just ignore him and engage with civil people 

You right. 

I did my part. 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

2 hours ago, Leavith said:

Honestly, we five pages in while I would love to read it i think it should be organize in a way that it target the specific reasons people would use to detain back the idea of an auction house.

Do a pro and con for DE not the player and then do a pro and con for the player.

Because lets give everyone an extra ability to there warframe sounds like a good idea for the player, but how does that benefit DE? It's gonna be work they will put in.

Similar to this, an auction house it works in other game and sounds good as a way to organize and manage trades, but will the work make a difference with DE.

We basically have covered that brother 

[0_The_F00l]

5 hours ago, Leavith said:

Honestly, we five pages in while I would love to read it i think it should be organize in a way that it target the specific reasons people would use to detain back the idea of an auction house.

Do a pro and con for DE not the player and then do a pro and con for the player.

Because lets give everyone an extra ability to there warframe sounds like a good idea for the player, but how does that benefit DE? It's gonna be work they will put in.

Similar to this, an auction house it works in other game and sounds good as a way to organize and manage trades, but will the work make a difference with DE.

I too would like a pro /con table, so people can't beat around the bush and just say "bad" cause I said so already. 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2020-01-30 at 11:32 PM, Firetempest said:

The economy of WF deals with a practically infinite supply and a finite demand. Once you have the thing you need, you never need said thing ever again. Stable automated bulk trades for years here require a much larger output of junk. A quarterly output of primes is not much stuff. There are few perpetually useful items for trade but they are all forms of currency. Endo, credits, plat. A stable economy requires loss and infinite demand. 

Over time it takes more and more prime parts for an equal value of plat from years past. The spikes of value only being the opening week of any prime access. The prime vault is a bandaid that caps that infinite supply but there are still huge stockpiles.

All this leads to longer farms for free to play users for useful amounts of plat for DEs market. And shorter periods of profits for sellers due to ease of listing and undercutting.

The market is already a mess with a huge discrepancy between player value and DE value. A auction house just speeds up the decline.

This. A lot of people get to the part where they see "cheaper prices" and then just immediately stop there. Right now if you want to sell a specific item you're competing with everyone else staring at trade chat right at that instant. Not everyone in the entire game period. People would get pissed when they realize it made it easier to sell for everyone else in the game too.

On 2020-01-31 at 7:45 PM, peterc3 said:

The existing game has unlimited supply on nearly every item available for a very limited demand.

For a functional AH economy this is a very short time to bottomed out prices. Also a disincentive to buy PA if I can just wait a week or two and get everything for a handful of Plat.

This. But at the same time getting plat here and there for things like forma and potatoes would actually be MORE difficult because guess what their price is the same..

On 2020-01-31 at 7:57 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

It's both and they explained the scenarios which would lead to each. 

That's why it's a false dichotomy on your part. 

Yup.

On 2020-01-31 at 8:16 PM, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

A Plat % or tax dosent give value to the item it's simply a tax implemented by you in an attempt to "balance out" your economy 

This. And we're talking about literally making people pay money to trade items in a videogame? Lmao that would piss people off almost as much as actual tax hikes. 

On 2020-01-31 at 8:45 PM, 0_The_F00l said:

So items will be cheap - i do not see a problem,

Items will be high value for rare - i also dont see a problem,

I have already countered the scenarios they have explained.

You would rather not have balance?

You're wrong that's the problem. Prices would bottom out for anything that isnt a good riven. 

On 2020-01-31 at 8:52 PM, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

The idea of a tax on a premium currency in a video game withing trading provides no sort of balance to said economy effectively going back to what I originally said. Players will have to spend more real money to make up for the loss of such and on top of the fact that the implementation of an premium currency tax on a premium currency trade in a video game is beyond predatory 

People would RAGE like nothing DE has ever seen. 

[Zeclem]

if you want botting to destroy the games already fragile economy, go ahead. but thats what AH's do to the ftp games. and for wf it would be extra deadly because we use premium currency to trade. 

[0_The_F00l]

5 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

You're wrong that's the problem. Prices would bottom out for anything that isnt a good riven. 

That's good, everything which is not super rare being sold for 10p is acceptable to me. 

5 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

. People would RAGE like nothing DE has ever seen. 

Or they would simply not use it if they don't like it. 

[Tinklzs]

8 hours ago, Zeclem said:

if you want botting to destroy the games already fragile economy, go ahead. but thats what AH's do to the ftp games. and for wf it would be extra deadly because we use premium currency to trade. 

Forgot about bots, check out path of exile for that. Player creates an afk bot account, while they sleep or actually play the game. The bot does all the trades, far faster than any player could, and even though the devs know they exist, they can't deal with all of them. And it's stupidly easy to make a new one. Make new email  > make lvl 1 character > done.  I referrenced Path of Exile since they have the exact same trading system as Warframe, but you aren't limited on how many things you can trade in a day.

 

In an auction house system, which out World of warcraft. Someone buying hundreds or thousands of individual sales at the press of a button, clearing the market essentially to place it all back at a higher profit margin, ending up with massive returns. The rich get richer etc. 

[Zeclem]

3 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

Forgot about bots, check out path of exile for that. Player creates an afk bot account, while they sleep or actually play the game. The bot does all the trades, far faster than any player could, and even though the devs know they exist, they can't deal with all of them. And it's stupidly easy to make a new one. Make new email  > make lvl 1 character > done.  I referrenced Path of Exile since they have the exact same trading system as Warframe, but you aren't limited on how many things you can trade in a day.

 

In an auction house system, which out World of warcraft. Someone buying hundreds or thousands of individual sales at the press of a button, clearing the market essentially to place it all back at a higher profit margin, ending up with massive returns. The rich get richer etc. 

and poe also has the benefit of having seasonals creating constant demand(or so i assume, thats how they worked in d3 and i only played that). wf does not have such a mechanic.

[IIDMOII]

They have no plans to streamline trading because it's a source of income that they can directly manipulate and influence. Not to mention has zero regulation or oversight in the video game industry.

The trading system is entirely rigged in their favor. And they can manipulate it as they see fit via ;

- drop rates

- nerfs/buffs

- having moles driving up prices or visa versa. There's nothing stopping them from duping and flooding the market to artificially "correct" the value of certain items.

RMT trading is sketchy af when the developer controls it without any external oversight. 

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by IIDMOII

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

11 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

That's good, everything which is not super rare being sold for 10p is acceptable to me. 

Or they would simply not use it if they don't like it. 

One of the best things about warframe is that premium currency can be earned in game through trade chat. 

I cant think of any other game that does that. Normally if you want a "premium" currency you gotta whip out your wallet. 

 

"If they dont like it dont use it". I could say the same suggestion to you about the trading system now. Putting a plat tax on trades would cause a S#&$storm that WOULD affect de and it would affect you when all of a sudden they have less money to support the game. 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

54 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

One of the best things about warframe is that premium currency can be earned in game through trade chat. 

I cant think of any other game that does that. Normally if you want a "premium" currency you gotta whip out your wallet. 

 

"If they dont like it dont use it". I could say the same suggestion to you about the trading system now. Putting a plat tax on trades would cause a S#&$storm that WOULD affect de and it would affect you when all of a sudden they have less money to support the game. 

He dosent care about anyone's arguments dude we've tried

[0_The_F00l]

2 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

One of the best things about warframe is that premium currency can be earned in game through trade chat. 

I cant think of any other game that does that. Normally if you want a "premium" currency you gotta whip out your wallet. 

 You can't think of another game with similar trade, but you can be certain that AH will destroy trade in warframe? 

This is the thing I am trying to highlight in part, people claiming certainty of failure because of different references where AH was unsuccessful, while also claiming it is very different from anything they can think of from monetization perspective. 

Do you not think that there can be checks and balances placed to counter it? 

3 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

. "If they dont like it dont use it". I could say the same suggestion to you about the trading system now. Putting a plat tax on trades would cause a S#&$storm that WOULD affect de and it would affect you when all of a sudden they have less money to support the game. 

That's the problem, there is no choice at the moment to not use trade chat other than an actual auction house that exists outside the game in the form of warframe.market which I do predominantly use and does not benefit DE in any way. 

The trade tax is only on the AH, if it was not clear, which would be a parallel trading platform still within the game. 

[Tinklzs]

14 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

You can't think of another game with similar trade, but you can be certain that AH will destroy trade in warframe? 

Path of exile has the exact same trade system as Warframe. However, it has bots which basically make it an auction house, no needing to wait for someone in a map/mission, just trade immediately as you get into their hideout. Average time with a bot is how slow you, the actual player, are - which is about 10 seconds at most.  However, due to this accessibility, those who have bots have exceedingly more currency than others, and due to this they control the market on pretty much anything they desire. New items come out that league? Guess who has that market cornered..  What's annoying is bots aren't allowed, but are so easy to setup, even with measures inplace by the developers to counter them.

14 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Do you not think that there can be checks and balances placed to counter it? 

Sure, probably, possibly. The thing is, I wouldn't trust DE to do it. It would have to be 100% correct the first time and I haven't seen DE do that with simpler things. I mean, they just released an update a few minutes ago that removed the auto-backbreak "steal a life" move that shouldn't have been, and it only took them 3 months. Even a few days would be too long here. So again, I'm sure there are countermeasures you could put in place (assuming a system like this would work) but I wouldn't trust DE to do it correctly.

14 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

does not benefit DE in any way. 

Sure it does, it's the median. DE wants a slower trading scene so the infinite supply of items aren't so easy to access. Sure, a new player can buy $10 of plat and buy any starter stuff they want, easy to get mods etc. However what limits them from getting a 'get your own warframe mod/weapon/item starter kit" is the accessibility of trading. If they don't have all they need from one guy, who is willing to trade, then they need to trade other players, many others, who'd be willing to trade 1-5p items . Giving those new players a reason to actually play the game, the real shame is WF market isn't shown in-game so newbies don't know it exists.   Shifting to a vet player perspective it's roughly the same idea, if 15 people are selling ivara parts you need, but only 3 at a price you're willing to pay, however 1 is in mission and 2 are afk. Do you wait for that guy, grind some yourself, or buy from someone selling at higher prices? DE wins if you pay irregardless. Because it's plat that was bought, doesn't matter if it was purchased years ago or today. 

From the player perspective, it's basically a kiosk, at least if you're doing it right. You log online, turn on your WFmarket, and now everyone can see your wares. The only downside for us, the seller, is possibly getting interrupted mid-mission to trade. This can be bypassed however by trading when not in a mission or doing things you don't mind getting interrupted by trading. So a tradeoff one inconvenience for another you trade the ability to show off your wears being easier, at the cost (that you'd have to "pay" anyways without WFMarket) of needing to meetup somewhere.

 

It isn't a perfect system, but far better than what it could be (just in-game trade chat of spam). I save my highest quality rivens for in-game tradechat, and everything else to WFM/Riven.Market. If trading is an inconvenience then schedule it better, show off more expensive trades that you'd be willing to leave a mission for, or trade when you're eating or something. Sure, it requires a bit more input then you're initially wanting, but it's hardly as bad as what you make it out to be, or what it could be.