The process of gilding kitguns is is horribly, objectively flawed.

[(PSN)Ashmane84]

All I want to do is gild a kitgun. That's it. But to do that, I need 13 Medical Debt Bonds to rank up my standing...but those are literally impossible to get. I have a 20% chance for two from bounties that are literally impossible to finish as a solo player. And not just because they are hard, but because they are mechanically HARDER without a squad. Do it with a buddy and we see enemies of levels in the twenties. Do it solo and DOZENS of enemies in levels well over thirty. FOR NO REASON. And all this for a 20% chance. So bounties are out.

Whats the alternative? Buy them from Ticker, but that's around 300k credits, plus mats, for five. So we're talking well over a million credits to get what I need. WHY!? Earth wasn't like that; the items needed to get to rank 3 standing were normal. Took a lot of standing, about a week's worth, but the items? Just grab a spear and a mining gun and go. Zaw ready to go. But kitguns? Basically impossible to do. FOR. NO. REASON.

I'm told it's because these are endgame items...but no they aren't. AMPS are endgame; I can't even begin to craft one of those right now. The faction involved doesn't even want to talk to me. But kitguns? Able to be crafted from standing rank one, and the NPC basically yells you over the moment you land in the city. Plus there is the mastery experience issue. You don't get mastery exp with these until you gild them, but if doing so is an endgame thing, then you don't need mastery exp because you're already mastered. So if that were the case they should be worth master exp BEFORE you gild them, not after. So lets review...

They cost literally THOUSANDS of times the resources to make and gild as a Zaw...FOR NO REASON.
They require items to rank up standing so much more difficult to acquire as the equivalent for earth to be functionally impossible to obtain...FOR NO REASON.
Their usefulness for building mastery experience is completely, objectively backwards from the levels of progression needed to build them verses gild them...FOR NO REASON.

So, objectively speaking; this is HORRIBLE game design, for no reason, and you should feel bad. And fix this. In either order.

[Spawnbold]

Just want until you need toroids... 

Fortuna is just one big annoying grind, but with bonds you can, at least, get lucky and buy them off of ticker

[(PSN)smb-twisted]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

....

its literally easy.

[Paradoxity]

When complaining about this sort of thing, always keep in mind: DE's objective goal with just about every horrible, garbage, overly random or grindy system is to 'extend involvement' or some  such nonsense- in  short, they want grind to be godawful because it means we'll spend longer doing something. That's it, that's the only reason. They want it to take longer so we don't blast through it and thus it makes 'content' last longer. It has nothing to do with solid design or storytelling or world building or what have you, it's just to extend the life of a grind. 

 

[Firetempest]

Perhaps you are just not far enough into the game. Are you able to Index? Because that's millions of easy credits. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

but those are literally impossible to get.

sitting on every Kitgun, gilded. so you're wrong there. please use the word "literally" when it's required, thankyou.

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

but that's around 300k credits, plus mats, for five. So we're talking well over a million credits to get what I need.

have you unlocked the Index yet? once you do, a million credits is pretty easy to get considering you can walk away with six-figure sums each run on the High Risk Investment. if you haven't got it yet, I'd get around to it first, it will make credits a much easier thing to get. DE wanted Fortuna to be something that takes players a while, so trying to rush it without access to things like Index is just gonna burn you out. kitguns are good, but I wouldn't say super essential, there's a whole host of good Secondary weapons out there you can use until you get what you need. 

 

 

 

[(PSN)Ashmane84]

1 minute ago, Spawnbold said:

Just want until you need toroids... 

Fortuna is just one big annoying grind, but with bonds you can, at least, get lucky and buy them off of ticker

Not for a new player. That's what people often fail to understand when I make threads like these; I HAVEN'T been playing the game forever and DON'T Have an overflowing bank account just sitting there because I've already been everywhere and done everything. YOu know how many credits I have right now? 60k. At the progression through the planters I've managed it can take an hour or more to make that much. I DON'T have thousands of every resource sitting forgotten in my vault to pull from. When a new thing gets added in whatever update; I CAN'T just jump on it and big-spender my dragon's hoard of crap to get the goodies instantly. For me the 300k credits needed for FIVE debt bonds is a vertically insurmountable obstacle. And yeah I COULD keep playing, rank up my mastery, and get to that point before doing a kitgun...but why? Why was the process to build them, useless as they are ungilded, practically shoved down my throat on the SECOND planet I visited as a new player? MY mastery rank is in the single digits right now, yet the game threw this thing in my face, and I went for it because all the sidearms I had were complete and utter trash, and now I can't finish the process for what? Another fifty or sixty hours? At best! 

This is why new players tend to rage quit online games.

[(PSN)smb-twisted]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

Not for a new player.....

This is why new players tend to rage quit online games.

perhaps new players aren't meant to be able to get the most powerful weapons in the game straight away?

[(PSN)Ashmane84]

1 minute ago, (PS4)smb-twisted said:

perhaps new players aren't meant to be able to get the most powerful weapons in the game straight away?

Then why it is it something you can do after ONE QUEST on the SECOND planet?

Edited February 17, 2020 by (PS4)Ashmane84

[Paradoxity]

New player retention in Warframe is garbage, and we've been making a lot of noise about it for years. 

So far they refuse to listen. Supposedly there's an overhaul of the early game experience coming? Hopefully it's one that keeps in mind the resource disparity between newer players and long-term ones. 

We'll see. In the mean time, We get it if you're done with Warframe cos of this kind of crap. It's not at all friendly to anyone new and frankly, presented as something it's not- kitguns are good, top tier, even with some setups, but they're badly misplaced being in what is otherwise a 'new' player zone. 

[NinjaZeku]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

literally impossible to finish as a solo player

Maybe the game is giving you a hint that you should not be playing solo then,
at least not in content that's too much for your current level of power.

Kitguns are something you're kinda not supposed to get early on, also.
They're among the best Secondaries in the game, you can wait a bit on them 😛

[(PSN)Ashmane84]

Just now, Paradoxity said:

 but they're badly misplaced being in what is otherwise a 'new' player zone. 

There  you go, you get it. This is a NEW player zone and these things were thrown in my face pretty much the second I got there. I didn't seek them out, I didn't go on the wiki and look for the best whatever in the game, I'm not trying to rush content. I got to a new planet, I did ONE questline, and the game went "heres these cool guns you can craft RIGHT NOW!" So I did. And then I realize they are just preventing me from leveling up my mastery rank. I can't get rid of them because I've put too much into them. But I can't get other weapons to use because I don't have enough inventory slots. My only option is to gild these, but when I go to do that the game basically says "nah, 'eff you. Rank up." So I go to rank up and it says "nah, 'eff you, farm these items." So I go to do that and it goes "Nah, 'eff you. Just 'eff you. Nothing else this time."

[(PSN)smb-twisted]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

Then why it is it something you can do after ONE QUEST on the SECOND planet?

plenty of games have areas you can wander into early on and get smashed. this isn't even that, it's a vendor you can look at and buy parts from early on but not the toppest of top tier parts. gives you something to work toward eh?

[(PSN)Ashmane84]

Just now, (PS4)smb-twisted said:

plenty of games have areas you can wander into early on and get smashed. this isn't even that, it's a vendor you can look at and buy parts from early on but not the toppest of top tier parts. gives you something to work toward eh?

First off; I didn't "wander" anywhere; I HAD to go these because I COULDN'T go anywhere else. Second, if this is a "something to work toward" the game should have very well said that. Not presented them as something I could get right then. Maybe you don't actually know how this content progresses because you were already established before it existed (It happens, my account is actually years old because I quit in the past when half of this crap wasn't even in the game), but when you get to that city the game makes it seem like crafting these guns is a new player friendly content reward for completing ONE story line, and the amps are the late game equivalent. It makes kitguns seem like a tutorial. "Do these easy ones now, and later you can shoot for one of those awesome operator amps!"
 

[(XBOX)SupremeMorph]

It's really not hard to farm the bounties for them, don't know where you're getting the inflated level and enemy count from, could've been a random encounter further out than you're used to. My advice? Go play the rest of the game then come back to fortuna when you're kitted out for those bounties. Or, y'know, just play public/recruit a squad in recruit chat.

[(PSN)Ashmane84]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Lucas Jameson said:

It's really not hard to farm the bounties for them, don't know where you're getting the inflated level and enemy count from, could've been a random encounter further out than you're used to. My advice? Go play the rest of the game then come back to fortuna when you're kitted out for those bounties. Or, y'know, just play public/recruit a squad in recruit chat.

No, they spawned in part of waves of enemies to defend "cases" I had to capture like those radio towers. And I was actually low-balling their levels. Might be a bug, because I have not only a squad, but am the leader of a nice little ghost clan and we all game together nightly. And we've all seen in our solo phases that since last week the enemies that spawn out there have been getting unreasonably strong, with buffs WAY above the norm and their established level, constantly regardless of the content you're actually trying to do.

[(PSN)smb-twisted]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

First off; I didn't "wander" anywhere; I HAD to go these because I COULDN'T go anywhere else. Second, if this is a "something to work toward" the game should have very well said that. Not presented them as something I could get right then. Maybe you don't actually know how this content progresses because you were already established before it existed (It happens, my account is actually years old because I quit in the past when half of this crap wasn't even in the game), but when you get to that city the game makes it seem like crafting these guns is a new player friendly content reward for completing ONE story line, and the amps are the late game equivalent. It makes kitguns seem like a tutorial. "Do these easy ones now, and later you can shoot for one of those awesome operator amps!"
 

every rpg i've ever played has vendors who sell things i can't afford when i first see them till i acquire enough x, y or z.

fortuna wasn't around when i started but earth was, and i couldn't build a zaw or an amp of any kind for the longest time despite it being right there in my face.

[(XBOX)SupremeMorph]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

No, they spawned in part of waves of enemies to defend "cases" I had to capture like those radio towers. And I was actually low-balling their levels. Might be a bug, because I have not only a squad, but am the leader of a nice little ghost clan and we all game together nightly. And we've all seen in our solo phases that since last week the enemies that spawn out there have been getting unreasonably strong, with buffs WAY above the norm and their established level, constantly regardless of the content you're actually trying to do.

Haven't noticed anything like that myself tbh, but maybe that's because I've only been doing the top-tier bounty with a friend to help them hit rank 5. Either way, none of those bounties should be particularly difficult for a properly geared tenno. Grab some better gear, some stronger weapons and better mods, maybe a different warframe depending on what you're running, and give it another crack when you're ready

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Have you tried Kuva Weapons and their 5-forma grind, OP? Because that's yet another example of what you describe. And I agree.

This strategy of artificially raising the grind with such cheap tactics are DE's usual resort to "keep us engaged". It's just what it is, just like their Steve's-Twitter-based poll that was completely biased good for collecting viable statistical data.

Edited February 18, 2020 by (PS4)Hikuro-93

[(PSN)Ashmane84]

1 minute ago, (PS4)smb-twisted said:

every rpg i've ever played has vendors who sell things i can't afford when i first see them till i acquire enough x, y or z.

fortuna wasn't around when i started but earth was, and i couldn't build a zaw or an amp of any kind for the longest time despite it being right there in my face.

Ah, but that right there shows the difference; Zaws are something to work toward, but are much more doable. I'm not trying to master the faction and get the arcanes yet, but with getting to rank 3 on earth the items I need were just some modestly rare resources I could farm in the open world or craft with blueprints. It took time, effort, a bit of knowlege of the game...but venus is a different beast. For no reason ranking up standing there (the actual problem; crafting the guns and paying for them is actually surprisingly CHEAP) requires items that can only be obtained in one of two ways; rewards from bounties with ridiculous difficulty at low drop chances, or bought with absurdly high credit prices from an NPC. There is no reason for that difference. The guns themselves aren't the problem, hell they even have intro parts for crafting weaker ones if you're not at high standing rank yet. The problem is the jump in difficulty and resource requirement between standing rank 2 and rank 3 is game breaking. We're not talking a natural progression here; we're talking "a wild brick wall appears; it's super effective!"  

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

The bonds i have never had an issue with.  Grinding toroids and vox solaris though is awful.

They should br no different the fighting ediolons.  Go kill an ediolon you get a nice variety of cores and shards.

Killing the giant robot spiders should also net us 20 plus toriods of multiple kinds.

Dum vox solaris rep.

[Sintag]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

I can't get rid of them because I've put too much into them. But I can't get other weapons to use because I don't have enough inventory slots. My only option is to gild these, but when I go to do that the game basically says "nah, 'eff you. Rank up." So I go to rank up and it says "nah, 'eff you, farm these items." So I go to do that and it goes "Nah, 'eff you. Just 'eff you. Nothing else this time."

Or you could sell Prime parts on Trade and make plat to buy slots?

TBH though this is a new player retention problem.  Once you hit Neptune, you'll never hunger for Credits again, but you need to hit Neptune first, and that's a ways off from where you are.  So, right now, here's what I'd do.

• Farm Fissures for spare Prime parts.  Somebody, somewhere, is buying parts, even if it's just junk they want for Ducats.
• Use the Platinum you get to buy more weapon and Warframe slots.  Maybe also buy a spare Flow or Streamline if you still need the undamaged versions
• Now you can make stuff without throwing your Kitguns away
• Get stronger.  A lot stronger.  Like, 'I can solo Saturn's boss' stronger
• Rank up your MR as much as you can in the meantime, as well; This'll give you more mod space to play around with once you gild the Kitguns in question
• Go back to Fortuna
• Run T3 Bounties as a pub.  Trust me, it's easier to handle bonus objectives in a group, plus people will pick you up off the ground
• Repeat until you have the Medical Debt Bonds you need

If you want to skip most of that (you'll still need slots and strength), get to Neptune and farm Index.  I'd stick to Low Risk (since you'll still walk out with 75k Credits per round) if you want to stay efficient, but Medium and High Risk are good if you want to either challenge yourself or make more money in single rounds.  Then, buy the Medical Bonds off of Ticker.

Finally, a word to the wise:  The game does enjoy it's padding, but this sounds like you're trying to dive headfirst into mid-game content with early-game gear and finding a brick wall instead of a swimming pool.  So, the real meat of this is basically going to be, 'git stronk and git gud' and that entire thing above is what I'd do in your shoes.

[(XBOX)DShinShoryuken]

Nevermind....this.....

Edited February 17, 2020 by (XB1)DShinShoryuken
Didn't want to text

[(PSN)Ashmane84]

13 minutes ago, (XB1)Lucas Jameson said:

Haven't noticed anything like that myself tbh, but maybe that's because I've only been doing the top-tier bounty with a friend to help them hit rank 5. Either way, none of those bounties should be particularly difficult for a properly geared tenno. Grab some better gear, some stronger weapons and better mods, maybe a different warframe depending on what you're running, and give it another crack when you're ready

Max rank Frost with reactor and exilus installed. Health regen aura. Maxed out Tek, Augar, and Hunter mods, complete sets. Vaska Kavat pet, max rank, near immortal with max Pack Leader. Max rank Gaze kitgun, ungilded, with added cold damage to deal with shields. Max rank boltor rifle, max rank scythe zaw with Reaping Spiral stance.

I'm not a stranger to grind, or the benefits of doing so. Nor am I fully alone; I have a clan with a 0% trade tax, and me and my buddies are constantly leap frogging each other in our solo play time and passing new goodies around. I am not unprepared for a challenge. This is legitimately unbalanced design. Oh, and maybe you've not seen it because you're not playing on the PS4 version of the game. Just saying. 

EDIT: to be clear, I am the clan founder and "architect." I spend the bulk of my time crafting. I'm on my sixth warframe, have made dozens of weapons, and have built our dojo pretty much solo. So yeah, most of my resources get dumped on those projects and most of my mods are donations from the clan, buffing me up in exchange for putting a roof over their heads, as it were. But a lot of that I had to farm and grind for myself; so I know what I'm doing. I just prefer set list of objectives so I can focus on a project. "I'm making this so....spend a week farming there, then grind these, trade for that thing, and spend three days crafting." This latest project "get rank 3 standing on Venus" is just an unreasonable roadblock and difficulty spike unlike anything else I've seen in this game. Everything else, might take WEEKS, but can be done with just a bit of time and effort. This is the first thing where the game threw a middle finger in my face and went "F**K YOU!"

Edited February 17, 2020 by (PS4)Ashmane84

[(XBOX)SupremeMorph]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

Max rank Frost with reactor and exilus installed. Health regen aura. Maxed out Tek, Augar, and Hunter mods, complete sets. Vaska Kavat pet, max rank, near immortal with max Pack Leader. Max rank Gaze kitgun, ungilded, with added cold damage to deal with shields. Max rank boltor rifle, max rank scythe zaw with Reaping Spiral stance.

Frost is great for defence, but lacks raw durability, relying almost entirely on his snow globe. Rejuvenation is too slow for in-combat healing. Mod sets are gimmicks, take my advice and ditch them for general mods. None of them are as useful as a maxed out redirection and vitality. Vasca kavat, great for second chances, if they can get to you before they die. Gaze kitgun, really depends on what grip you used, but I'm betting it's lacking for this, and you really need magnetic for shields, or toxin to bypass them. Haven't used scythes much since the rework, but I'd suggest an impact-focused one instead to demolish shields

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

I am not unprepared for a challenge

Go take that loadout to a boarding party in the veil, or the thralls of a lich, or basically anything that actually resembles a challenge in this game, and I promise you'll see just how ineffective it is

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

maybe you've not seen it because you're not playing on the PS4 version of the game

They're the same versions, bugs notwithstanding. Same update, same mechanics, same broken ways to beat just about anything. I'm not trying to be mean here, but you're complaining that it's impossible because you're simply trying to handle something alone that you're underleveled for. Get a friendly veteran to help you out, either drag you through the bounties or the index so you can just buy them if you're really that keen on doing it now. All that being on a different console means is that I can't offer my own assistance, sadly