The process of gilding kitguns is is horribly, objectively flawed.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

These threads are always so predictable...

These responses are always so predictable. Someone has a problem with a very obvious solution, but apparently that's not a good answer. 

OP's problem is that they're brand new and are trying to do higher level content; they haven't made any significant progress in the Star Chart and so are both mod and resource poor; think that they know what they are doing with modding their gear but really don't seem to achieving much of anything; and it looks like they have sources of information but do not have the experience to filter the appropriate advice from the "zomg you have to do this it's sooooo imba". 

In a single phrase, they're trying to short circuit the system, and it's leading to more and more problems for them. 

[tzadquiel]

1 hour ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Because statistics exist?

Seriously though, the tutorial for Warframe might as well be an hour on the wiki.

can I see those statistics? 

[Teljaxx]

53 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

These responses are always so predictable. Someone has a problem with a very obvious solution, but apparently that's not a good answer. 

OP's problem is that they're brand new and are trying to do higher level content; they haven't made any significant progress in the Star Chart and so are both mod and resource poor; think that they know what they are doing with modding their gear but really don't seem to achieving much of anything; and it looks like they have sources of information but do not have the experience to filter the appropriate advice from the "zomg you have to do this it's sooooo imba". 

In a single phrase, they're trying to short circuit the system, and it's leading to more and more problems for them. 

No, the real problem is that Warframe has terrible guidance for new players. No one here has suggested anything that fixes that. All anyone has suggested is swapping one problem for another. "Just go play that broken part of the game, its easier than playing this broken part of the game." Ignoring the problem like that won't actually fix anything.

Without checking the Wiki, what is there to tell you that Kitguns are endgame weapons? Their high gilded stats? I guess. But the fact that they are so cheap and easy to build, and they show up on the second lowest level planet in the game says they should be early game weapons. So what are they? The game gives conflicting information, so its really not surprising that people have trouble figuring it out.

 

9 hours ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

The "meta" community of literally every online game I've ever played, ever, has said that. But it all comes from one specific mindset; speed. You value clearing content quickly, what you'd like to call "efficiently" over actually PLAYING the content. I could never get into that mindset. I'd much rather a mission take a few minutes longer and enjoy it, than finish it quickly and the whole thing feel like work. I have a job, I work most of my time, I refuse to turn a game into work. I like CC and conditions, speed of completion is not a factor. I'm not trying to gold-metal everything in the game, I don't give a crap about 100% completion, I don't PvP, and (as always) the "meta" can kiss my a**.

That said, I do thank you for the advice. But I know what I want and what I enjoy. All I want is a build that is viable and can complete content while still providing some joy in the experience. Top tier is not something I put much value on. Heck the only reason I'm building a kitgun at all is because I want a freeze ray. I know that even of the kitguns Gaze is considered the weakest, and I know magnetic damage is better than cold at shields. But Gaze does "work" and cold damage does get the job done better than some alternatives. It works, it can complete content, and it gives me some subjective joy. That's all I care about.

I agree with you. Playing the meta is boring. Especially in Warframe. You can become incredibly overpowered without even trying in this game, so going for the absolute best builds just makes the entire game pointless. I would much rather use something with a cool mechanic than whatever deals the most damage. Pretty much all of my favorite gear in this game is my favorite because of its weaknesses, not its strengths. The minimum range on the Acceltra, the high recoil on the Grakata, Etc. Using underpowered gear with interesting mechanics is basically the only way this game is fun anymore. Simply nuking everything with the Ignis Wraith so you don't even have to aim, is not.

Also: You want a good freeze ray? Get the Glaxion. (Vandal if you ever get the chance) All the meta players will tell you its terrible because it doesn't deal enough damage, but its really fun to use. The Vandal version especially makes for a great status gun for slowing and armor stripping.

[Leyers_of_facade]

41 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

Also: You want a good freeze ray? Get the Glaxion. (Vandal if you ever get the chance) All the meta players will tell you its terrible because it doesn't deal enough damage, but its really fun to use. The Vandal version especially makes for a great status gun for slowing and armor stripping.

Glaxion vandal is definitely a fun and decent weapon, the fact that meta players think its terrible is a good thing, because that will mean its less likely to get hit by riven disp nerfs 🙂

Also, with how often we get fractures, vandal should be reasonably easy to obtain for OP given the effort. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

36 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

Without checking the Wiki, what is there to tell you that Kitguns are endgame weapons?

The game itself. Obviously, by making the costs high (pay closer attention to the complaints they raised, these items are NOT cheap or easy for newbs), by gating the progression, by having high level content in between the newbs and the items. 

Also you ignore the fact that other players are clearly giving the OP the advantage of our experiences. That's literally all the wiki is, more experienced players providing a consensus of information. 

How many people have responded here advising the OP of how to get what they say they want? 

Yes, warframe sucks at guiding new players but at some point the "but nobody told them what they needed to know" arguments fall flat. 

Nobody is suggesting that they follow the meta. The problem is that they're confusing any improvements outside of "this is what I want to use" with "meta". For a new player, getting stuck in a rut as far as loadouts are concerned is one of the biggest impediments to progress in the game. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, tzadquiel said:

can I see those statistics? 

https://steamcommunity.com/stats/Warframe/achievements/

Similar stats exist for each platform. They match pretty well across the board from a "casual glance" standpoint. 

[Fallen77]

Objectively, this is so easy to acquire and OP is quite a crybaby.

[Teljaxx]

40 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The game itself. Obviously, by making the costs high (pay closer attention to the complaints they raised, these items are NOT cheap or easy for newbs), by gating the progression, by having high level content in between the newbs and the items. 

Also you ignore the fact that other players are clearly giving the OP the advantage of our experiences. That's literally all the wiki is, more experienced players providing a consensus of information. 

How many people have responded here advising the OP of how to get what they say they want? 

Yes, warframe sucks at guiding new players but at some point the "but nobody told them what they needed to know" arguments fall flat. 

Nobody is suggesting that they follow the meta. The problem is that they're confusing any improvements outside of "this is what I want to use" with "meta". For a new player, getting stuck in a rut as far as loadouts are concerned is one of the biggest impediments to progress in the game. 

You're still missing the point, as always.

A properly designed game shouldn't require outside information to understand basic systems. Whether its from a wiki, or fellow players. But Warframe does. I remember spending the first several months of playing this game with the wiki open, and constantly having to tab over to it to learn basic things. It was super annoying, but I put up with it because, at the time, the gameplay was worth it. Plus, the game was still early in development, and they were still regularly making huge changes to basic things, like damage types and melee. But, after six plus years, you'd think they would have all that nailed down by now and their game would start making sense. But nah. If anything, its even more confusing than ever. And the only reason they have been able to get away with it is because they are lucky enough to have a dedicated and helpful player base to create their documentation for them. Now, the community isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but it provides an all too convenient crutch that DE really needs to stop leaning on.

Sure, there are plenty of other games that benefit from having a wiki. But, most of the time, you only really need to go there to learn about the more esoteric parts of the game. Specific drop rates, hidden stats, super secret items, etc. These games still have enough built-in instructions, and make enough sense, that you can learn the basics without external assistance. Besides, as I said before, just because the majority does something, doesn't mean its a good thing.

You also still haven't explained why its okay for top-tier endgame weapons to be available to newbies on the second lowest level planet in the game.

[Sintag]

25 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

You also still haven't explained why its okay for top-tier endgame weapons to be available to newbies on the second lowest level planet in the game.

Okay, let me add in something.

Assuming the OP is Rank 2, that's because they aren't yet.  They're not Gilded (and won't be until OP both gets out of their rut and can reliably pull their own weight), and they lack the top-tier parts needed to make the crit/status chance anything beyond 'decent'.  They also lack access to Pax Arcanes, which are another really big reason why Kitguns are a bit overpowered.  So, no, their Kitguns aren't endgame viable.  Not even close to it.  And they won't be for some time.

31 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

A properly designed game shouldn't require outside information to understand basic systems. Whether its from a wiki, or fellow players. But Warframe does. I remember spending the first several months of playing this game with the wiki open, and constantly having to tab over to it to learn basic things. It was super annoying, but I put up with it because, at the time, the gameplay was worth it. Plus, the game was still early in development, and they were still regularly making huge changes to basic things, like damage types and melee. But, after six plus years, you'd think they would have all that nailed down by now and their game would start making sense. But nah. If anything, its even more confusing than ever. And the only reason they have been able to get away with it is because they are lucky enough to have a dedicated and helpful player base to create their documentation for them. Now, the community isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but it provides an all too convenient crutch that DE really needs to stop leaning on.

On this, I'm in grim agreement.  There do need to be more tutorials explaining weapon statistics, what each status effect does, enemy levels, etc.  What we have is still either bare-bones, or out of the way in the Codex.  The new player experience in Warframe is still the worst part.  It's like climbing a brick wall onto a plateau.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

You're still missing the point, as always.

Not in the least. I'm actively disagreeing with you. That's a totally different thing. 

2 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

A properly designed game shouldn't require outside information to understand basic systems.

And I showed you how, in this case, the game is blatantly telling the OP in no uncertain terms that what they're trying to do isn't what the game intends.

Unfortunately some people have the amazing ability to ignore all of the "Bridge closed for repairs, no through traffic, STOP NOW" signs and keep going only to complain that they are stuck in the river and their car is sinking. 

Not everyone is able to try different combinations of of mods and say "huh this combination I thought would be good kind of sucks, maybe I should change what I was doing". That doesn't mean that the game has done anything wrong. I can't tell you how many times I have looked at someone playing a game, and advised them to switch weapons because the one they're using sucks only to be told "this is my best weapon" and a short trip to the inventory later they're using weapons they thought would suck to do significantly more damage against the particular enemies they are currently facing. Does that make me 'a slave to the meta', or just 'flexible'? 

The difference between us seems to be that I believe that gamers have agency. They're capable of learning, just as we both have. You think then incapable for some reason. 

As far as 'it would be nice to have a better tutorial system' goes, we all agree. The cynical side of me says that we're still going to get a lot of people who bypassed it because they 'know' all of that already, only to ask questions about what they just chose to ignore. 

2 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

You also still haven't explained why its okay for top-tier endgame weapons to be available to newbies on the second lowest level planet in the game.

Because you forgot that it's also available on the first. However it is clearly a "showroom" type of deal that whispers to them "all of this can be yours, Tenno..... But first you have to get to this level, like all of the people who are carrying you on these missions... Maybe you should ask them how..." 

[Jarriaga]

4 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

Without checking the Wiki, what is there to tell you that Kitguns are endgame weapons?

When I started playing the game back in 2017 with PoE, it was pretty clear to me without checking the wiki that I was not meant to have Exodia arcanes early because of the daily standing limit, my very low MR rank (Which made me calculate it would take months if I did not increase my MR for standing limits first) and my squishy Excalibur getting one-shot when trying a rank 5 bounty. The lesson I got from there was "Come back later with better gear".

Sure not everyone can get a hint, but that's not to say the game didn't try. Getting one-shot is a very clear sign you're not supposed to be there in any game.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

You gotta play more. You're not even close.

[IIDMOII]

If you're struggling with difficulty on Fortuna, you aren't meant to be there yet. Its really that simple.

You don't need a gilded kitgun if you're still struggling with level 30 enemies. Just come back to it later.

 

[(PSN)Ashmane84]

13 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

OP's problem is that they're brand new and are trying to do higher level content...

OP's problem is some absolute tool stuck a high level progression wall in the middle of what the game presented as a intermediate range tutorial without any indication it was more than that. Maybe it's been a while since you made one, but kitguns are ridiculously easy and cheap to make. You can literally get all the resources to build one in a day. ONE day. Just buy the super cheap fishing spear and mining laser, spend a couple hours on the planet doing that, and bam; kitgun. Craft at rank 1. Rank 2 was easy to get; drop about 50k credits with Tinker for the bonds, spend a few days building standing, done and easy. The getting rank 3 to gild them....huge roadblock out of nowhere, with literally nothing saying "hey this is high end content" anywhere in sight, and a trip to the wiki required to figure out exactly how screwed I was. That's a problem. It's a DESIGN problem. Some idiot didn't realize that you shouldn't put a high level thing in the middle of a low level area, or it confuses people. Take Little Duck, I know she does amps because of the wiki; won't talk to me. The leader of that factions says come back later, letting me know this is higher level content than where I am. Perfect. Zero problems. But kitguns? I load into the map for the very first time and there is this NPC screaming "HEY! KITGUN! Come and get your kitgun! Super cheap and easy to make! And you can do it after finishing ONE quest!" I'm sorry, but that's a damn tutorial. Some moron stuck an endgame weapon in the middle of a TUTORIAL.

And I've been told I should have known by the gilded stats being so high, but here is the problem with that; how the hell was I supposed to know those stats WERE high? My master rank is 6 right now, my frame of reference for weapon stats is near non-existent. And those guns DON'T have a master rank attached to them. So other than spending two days looking up every weapon on the wiki and doing the math to figure out the stat averages, how was I supposed to know those were high stats?

I'm talking about this from a new player perspective, and you've been spoiled by experience. You are not a new player. You have not been a new player in some time. So you DO NOT KNOW what this content looks like or how it plays from a new player perspective. Talk about the Dunning-Kruger Effect, well where does "I was a new player years ago before this content even existed, so of course I know exactly what it looks like to a new player NOW" fit into that? ("Okay Boomer?") You are the one who doesn't know what you don't know. And what you don't know is from a new player perspective Warframe is by far one of the most HOSTILE games on the market. So much so that this should probably be the developer's slogan:

Digital Extremes: Bend Over.

Edited February 19, 2020 by (PS4)Ashmane84

[(PSN)Ashmane84]

Also, supporting my saying these things are presented as a low-level or even tutorial item; they only take an hour to craft.
 

One of the few gauges I have to tell "training wheels" content from "the good stuff" is crafting time. Average stat weapons? Twelve to twenty-four hours. Something cool like a warframe or the archwing launcher? Three days. Random utility item the game spoon feeds you for a quest? Sixty seconds. Neat little side thing that isn't in any way a major part of the game and is used to teach you how stuff works? About an hour.

So tell me, why does an endgame item craft in the time frame of a noob gimmick item? Because, once again, some moron stuck an endgame reward inside of what is objectively in every way, by every indication and all requirements involved, as well as the established methodology of the game itself, a TUTORIAL. You can belittle me all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that somebody at Digital Extremes is an idiot. The freaking starter kubrow was harder to make than a kitgun, and took three times as long to farm for that freaking egg.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

49 minutes ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

OP's problem is some absolute tool stuck a high level progression wall in the middle of what the game presented as a intermediate range tutorial without any indication it was more than that. Maybe it's been a while since you made one, but kitguns are ridiculously easy and cheap to make. You can literally get all the resources to build one in a day. ONE day. Just buy the super cheap fishing spear and mining laser, spend a couple hours on the planet doing that, and bam; kitgun. Craft at rank 1. Rank 2 was easy to get; drop about 50k credits with Tinker for the bonds, spend a few days building standing, done and easy. The getting rank 3 to gild them....huge roadblock out of nowhere, with literally nothing saying "hey this is high end content" anywhere in sight, and a trip to the wiki required to figure out exactly how screwed I was. That's a problem. It's a DESIGN problem. Some idiot didn't realize that you shouldn't put a high level thing in the middle of a low level area, or it confuses people. Take Little Duck, I know she does amps because of the wiki; won't talk to me. The leader of that factions says come back later, letting me know this is higher level content than where I am. Perfect. Zero problems. But kitguns? I load into the map for the very first time and there is this NPC screaming "HEY! KITGUN! Come and get your kitgun! Super cheap and easy to make! And you can do it after finishing ONE quest!" I'm sorry, but that's a damn tutorial. Some moron stuck an endgame weapon in the middle of a TUTORIAL.

And I've been told I should have known by the gilded stats being so high, but here is the problem with that; how the hell was I supposed to know those stats WERE high? My master rank is 6 right now, my frame of reference for weapon stats is near non-existent. And those guns DON'T have a master rank attached to them. So other than spending two days looking up every weapon on the wiki and doing the math to figure out the stat averages, how was I supposed to know those were high stats?

I'm talking about this from a new player perspective, and you've been spoiled by experience. You are not a new player. You have not been a new player in some time. So you DO NOT KNOW what this content looks like or how it plays from a new player perspective. Talk about the Dunning-Kruger Effect, well where does "I was a new player years ago before this content even existed, so of course I know exactly what it looks like to a new player NOW" fit into that? ("Okay Boomer?") You are the one who doesn't know what you don't know. And what you don't know is from a new player perspective Warframe is by far one of the most HOSTILE games on the market. So much so that this should probably be the developer's slogan:

Digital Extremes: Bend Over.

WTF do you think the game is trying to tell you when you finally figure out that moving from rank 2 to rank 3 is so difficult? 

WTF do you think the game is trying to tell you when you see high level enemies while doing the bounties? 

WTF do you think the game is trying to tell you when you see the cost of the medical bonds? 

 

At what point do you start to wonder if you are ready to do that content? 

At what point do you question your choices of builds? 

At what point do you stop beating your head against the wall and wonder if maybe, just maybe the game is trying to get you to work on levelling up a bit before coming back? 

 

As for us not having a clue as to what it's like for a newb, do you honestly think that you are the first newb to come along? Do you really think that we haven't held people's hands and helped lift them up since Fortuna came out? Think about it. 

You've gotten advice from a lot of people:

How to get plat for slots; How to improve your ability to deal damage; How to earn credits faster; How to gain mastery ranks; How not to get stuck in the same comfortable pitfalls that trapped many of us. 

Whether you choose to take any of it to heart, is up to you Tenno. Or you can keep trying to blame everyone else for your lack of progress. Up to you. 

 

[(PSN)Ashmane84]

1 minute ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

...

 

I question why the game didn't alert me earlier that this was above my level, and tricked me into wasting weeks of my life on an item objectively worthless at my current stage of progression.

My problem isn't that this things are hard to make (they're not). My problem is not that they are a high level thing. My problem is not that there is a wall in the progression I am not able to clear yet. And of course my problem is not that I can't have one yet; I LIKE having long term goals to work toward.

My problem is that it took nearly a month for the game to get its act together and go "oh, by the way, this is endgame content." I should have been informed of that at the OUTSET of this process, not forced to figure it out the hard way after wasting my damn time. And above all my problem is that the game basically told me to make one the second I walked into Fortuna for the FIRST TIME.

Just look at what I posted above; they did this right with Little Duck and Amps. So why the hell couldn't they have done it right with Kitguns? Why was it so...deceptive? I guess, in the end, my problem is that the game overtly lied to me and tricked me into wasting weeks of my life.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

I question why the game didn't alert me earlier that this was above my level, and tricked me into wasting weeks of my life on an item objectively worthless at my current stage of progression.

My problem isn't that this things are hard to make (they're not). My problem is not that they are a high level thing. My problem is not that there is a wall in the progression I am not able to clear yet. And of course my problem is not that I can't have one yet; I LIKE having long term goals to work toward.

My problem is that it took nearly a month for the game to get its act together and go "oh, by the way, this is endgame content." I should have been informed of that at the OUTSET of this process, not forced to figure it out the hard way after wasting my damn time. And above all my problem is that the game basically told me to make one the second I walked into Fortuna for the FIRST TIME.

Just look at what I posted above; they did this right with Little Duck and Amps. So why the hell couldn't they have done it right with Kitguns? Why was it so...deceptive? I guess, in the end, my problem is that the game overtly lied to me and tricked me into wasting weeks of my life.

Let me quote another player who responded here:

8 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

When I started playing the game back in 2017 with PoE, it was pretty clear to me without checking the wiki that I was not meant to have Exodia arcanes early because of the daily standing limit, my very low MR rank (Which made me calculate it would take months if I did not increase my MR for standing limits first) and my squishy Excalibur getting one-shot when trying a rank 5 bounty. The lesson I got from there was "Come back later with better gear".

Sure not everyone can get a hint, but that's not to say the game didn't try. Getting one-shot is a very clear sign you're not supposed to be there in any game.

So OP, as you can see what you are describing as "deceptive" really isn't. Other players faced the same sort of hurdles as you, and rapidly figured out that they're looking at content that was obviously way over their heads at that point. You just chose to ignore all of the glaring neon warning signs along the way. 

 

I look forward to your rants about the set-mods not being as overly powerful as you thought they would be, and about how shields are pretty much garbage for most warframes. 

[(XBOX)Rez090]

On 2020-02-17 at 7:31 PM, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

I see something wrong in your penta build, either use only adhesive blast or napalm grenades, not both, waste of a mod slot.

[(PSN)Ashmane84]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Let me quote another player who responded here:

So OP, as you can see what you are describing as "deceptive" really isn't. Other players faced the same sort of hurdles as you, and rapidly figured out that they're looking at content that was obviously way over their heads at that point. You just chose to ignore all of the glaring neon warning signs along the way. 

 

I look forward to your rants about the set-mods not being as overly powerful as you thought they would be, and about how shields are pretty much garbage for most warframes. 

I didn't choose to ignore any signs; those signs didn't show up. They weren't there. At all. Until literally weeks into the process. And I can and have accepted that these are late game items I am not supposed to have yet. All I am saying, and what you're choosing to ignore, is that there needs to be better guidance for these things. Warframe has piss poor signposting for this sort of stuff, and it needs better. Figuring it out later and moving on isn't a solution; it's overlooking the problem. Just because you and so many others have decided to overlook the problem and just deal with the symptoms doesn't mean the problem somehow magically stops existing. Maybe I'm old fashioned, or just not a brain addled fanboy, but I think problems should be fixed.

Edited February 19, 2020 by (PS4)Ashmane84

[(PSN)Ashmane84]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Rez090 said:

I see something wrong in your penta build, either use only adhesive blast or napalm grenades, not both, waste of a mod slot.

I thank you for the constructive feedback. But it won't be an issue now. In addition to the feedback I've been getting urging me to reassess my build, I've also managed to craft a penta and...I kind of hate it. Like everything about it. But, if I may ask, do you have any feelings about those gun staff things you can make in the tenno lab? Forget what they are called...one says it's Harrow's signature weapon. It's a staff that shoots energy orbs like one of those Jaffa staves in Stargate, and that alone makes me adore the mere fact that they even exist. But are they worth using?

[(XBOX)Rez090]

13 hours ago, Leyers_of_facade said:

Glaxion vandal is definitely a fun and decent weapon, the fact that meta players think its terrible is a good thing, because that will mean its less likely to get hit by riven disp nerfs 🙂

Also, with how often we get fractures, vandal should be reasonably easy to obtain for OP given the effort. 

Wrong vandal weapon you're thinking of, fractures have the opticor.

[_Urakaze_]

5小时前 , (PS4)Ashmane84 说:

OP's problem is some absolute tool stuck a high level progression wall in the middle of what the game presented as a intermediate range tutorial without any indication it was more than that. Maybe it's been a while since you made one, but kitguns are ridiculously easy and cheap to make. You can literally get all the resources to build one in a day. ONE day. Just buy the super cheap fishing spear and mining laser, spend a couple hours on the planet doing that, and bam; kitgun. Craft at rank 1. Rank 2 was easy to get; drop about 50k credits with Tinker for the bonds, spend a few days building standing, done and easy. The getting rank 3 to gild them....huge roadblock out of nowhere, with literally nothing saying "hey this is high end content" anywhere in sight, and a trip to the wiki required to figure out exactly how screwed I was. That's a problem. It's a DESIGN problem. Some idiot didn't realize that you shouldn't put a high level thing in the middle of a low level area, or it confuses people. Take Little Duck, I know she does amps because of the wiki; won't talk to me. The leader of that factions says come back later, letting me know this is higher level content than where I am. Perfect. Zero problems. But kitguns? I load into the map for the very first time and there is this NPC screaming "HEY! KITGUN! Come and get your kitgun! Super cheap and easy to make! And you can do it after finishing ONE quest!" I'm sorry, but that's a damn tutorial. Some moron stuck an endgame weapon in the middle of a TUTORIAL.

And I've been told I should have known by the gilded stats being so high, but here is the problem with that; how the hell was I supposed to know those stats WERE high? My master rank is 6 right now, my frame of reference for weapon stats is near non-existent. And those guns DON'T have a master rank attached to them. So other than spending two days looking up every weapon on the wiki and doing the math to figure out the stat averages, how was I supposed to know those were high stats?

I'm talking about this from a new player perspective, and you've been spoiled by experience. You are not a new player. You have not been a new player in some time. So you DO NOT KNOW what this content looks like or how it plays from a new player perspective. Talk about the Dunning-Kruger Effect, well where does "I was a new player years ago before this content even existed, so of course I know exactly what it looks like to a new player NOW" fit into that? ("Okay Boomer?") You are the one who doesn't know what you don't know. And what you don't know is from a new player perspective Warframe is by far one of the most HOSTILE games on the market. So much so that this should probably be the developer's slogan:

Digital Extremes: Bend Over.

At this point I feel like if the game progression is a road, then the fortuna kitgun/resource grind is a high concrete wall, but only blocks that little trail that leads to the 'high-end content' road and OP is banging his head against the wall, even when there's clearly another path to go.

Games like star wars jedi fallen order also has areas that you can't explore until you learn some new abilities later on, yet I don't see anyone complaining.

There's actually incentives for progressing the starchart too, it just requires you to hover over the junction nodes to see, not screaming at you every time you open the starchart. Of course there can be better incentives like weapons slots for every junction but it's there. In addition the quest system should be a very good guide for your progression. Heck you can even get an end game sword by simply completing the second dream quest, which is just MR5 and halfway into all the quest only.

[_Urakaze_]

3小时前 , (PS4)Ashmane84 说:

I thank you for the constructive feedback. But it won't be an issue now. In addition to the feedback I've been getting urging me to reassess my build, I've also managed to craft a penta and...I kind of hate it. Like everything about it. But, if I may ask, do you have any feelings about those gun staff things you can make in the tenno lab? Forget what they are called...one says it's Harrow's signature weapon. It's a staff that shoots energy orbs like one of those Jaffa staves in Stargate, and that alone makes me adore the mere fact that they even exist. But are they worth using?

it looks cool but the weapons is at best a low-ish med-tier weapon. It has lots of status so it should suit your play style. With the right build (context: endgame mods) you can kill enemies of level 60-70 with relative ease. There's another gun staff called ferrox which you can get later in the game (corpus lab and MR locked) that shoots high damage laser pulses, but it is crit focused.

I can also probably guess your frustration. You thought Penta, a grenade launcher, should do a lot of damage. However that's not how weapons in Warframe works where mods mostly determine your combat effectiveness. Also Penta is one of the weakest explosive primary there is. There is other variant of it that is stronger, but again you can't get it now.

Edited February 19, 2020 by _Urakaze_

[tzadquiel]

19 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

https://steamcommunity.com/stats/Warframe/achievements/

Similar stats exist for each platform. They match pretty well across the board from a "casual glance" standpoint. 

great thanks, but I struggle to derive the falloff/retention rate from this. what would be the benchmark achievement here? ranking up a weapon to lvl30? if so, fine - we get percentage of playerbase which did this. but what do I compare this against? total user number? if yes, where do I find this? because all I can see is that right now there is 50k people playing, but this does not relate to the retention. 

thanks for the patience.