Riven gacha or riven progression?

[Goldenrice]

Is it time for DE to add a similar 'lich farming' type mechanic to rivens?

Ive always enjoyed the 'chase' for godroll rivens, and I know its something that the majority of the playerbase dont really take part in because its become impossible for 99% of the playerbase to drop 10k, 20k, 50k+ on a riven.

I haven't sat down and done kuva farming for riven rolling in years.  At some point, I just decided it was better to farm platinum and wait around for the specific riven to pop up and buy.  Being able to work towards specific riven rolls/stats is something I always thought rivens would eventually get to.

In terms of riven trading, I think players would rather see many godroll rivens circulating trade chat daily, rather than a couple every month or so.

I know many players dont care about chasing godroll rivens and they arent needed to do any form of endgame content either, but the riven rolling system has never sat well with me and I wish it was changed.  This game can do better 

[SneakyErvin]

I can see a system similar to kuva weapon upgrading if the riven becomes untradable the moment you start to upgrade it. They could also make it so you have to use veiled rivens of the appropriate class in order to upgrade, so you actually risk something in the process since the veiled rivens you use may actually hide a high value riven. Risk vs reward and all that.

[Goldenrice]

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I can see a system similar to kuva weapon upgrading if the riven becomes untradable the moment you start to upgrade it. They could also make it so you have to use veiled rivens of the appropriate class in order to upgrade, so you actually risk something in the process since the veiled rivens you use may actually hide a high value riven. Risk vs reward and all that.

Untradable would be fine

Time gated farm wouldnt be bad either if done right

[Synpai]

This is why I tend to not roll more than 10 times on a riven.

It's not satisfying and should they change the system to be progression based....you had 50k+ kuva that was rolled away which kind of makes it worse.

 

It's not about trading for me, I think Riven trading is more a double edged sword than a necessity. A riven should, IMO, equate to a Destiny 2 catalyst and be a reward for investing in a weapon that allows you to increase its power.

 

The internal progression loop of Warframe definitely needs work

[Goldenrice]

1 minute ago, Synpai said:

This is why I tend to not roll more than 10 times on a riven.

It's not satisfying and should they change the system to be progression based....you had 50k+ kuva that was rolled away which kind of makes it worse.

 

It's not about trading for me, I think Riven trading is more a double edged sword than a necessity. A riven should, IMO, equate to a Destiny 2 catalyst and be a reward for investing in a weapon that allows you to increase its power.

 

The internal progression loop of Warframe definitely needs work

I thought at the very least they wouldve added a couple more safety net features or band aids to riven rolling

Even if it was every 100 rolls to save a specific roll, some sort of pity system.  It really just feels like youre playing a gacha game sometimes. Spending x time farming kuva and seeing all that time go down the drain when you dont roll what you want probably sucks

Its why ive always opted for the platinum farm for acquiring rivens

[Synpai]

It is a gacha system with pure RNG.

It's like you said, that feeling of no progression is why people tend to opt out.

 

The feeling that you could roll 1000 times and get a terrible ribben but unveil a God tier riven requiring no effort.

[DrBorris]

A quote from [DE]Scott on why DE hasn't implemented Riven "stat locking" from a stream he did with Tactical Potato.

Quote

Potato: Have you ever considered, or did it ever go on the table about locking certain riven stats or do the ability to do like… In games like Diablo and things like that you get to roll a stat on certain armor pieces and that and you get to actually pick the one you want to keep or the one you want to roll. Has that ever been on the table? For doing that in regards to Rivens?

[DE]Scott: Um, I want to say that every time someone new at DE starts that is kind of like the like the ‘here’s a suggestion I have about how to make Rivens better’. I think the problem with doing that for us is Rivens are really, really powerful or can be really, really powerful. Like the upper end stats that are possible on those are really, really high and almost game-breaking high in a lot of cases. So if you have the ability to lock multiple stats or even one stat into something that is, is considered game-breaking. Ya know, um, I think that would be kinda bad for the very, ya know, that end-game player ‘cause then what we’d have to create to fight against that would be absolutely insane. So, I think that the randomness of it keeps the balance in check. So I think that the ability to lock those is probably not a great idea, it definitely gets floated around every couple months that people are like ‘hey, let’s lock Rivens’ and we’re like ‘Hell no’ because of what stats are possible on them. Ya know, obviously you guys probably have some insane Rivens that you’re like ‘This is amazing, and I would really like to lock it and reroll it and get this other stat that I don’t like on it off’.

Potato: When the Riven pass come in, holy S#&$.

[DE]Scott: Yah, and then like its gonna be like ‘oh, well then now its even more crazy’. So, I think for power creep’s sake which is not necessarily something that we always keep a super-duper eye on, the power creep problem, because it is PvE so we can create content to deal with the power creep problem. Uh, so, yeah, I don’t think locking is a good idea for the long-term health of the game.

So basically, DE doesn't want to because they are worried that we would become too "OP".

But it is apparently okay for someone to win the lottery and be "OP"... I don't even know where to begin on how scummy this looks. Like, I get where he is coming from, and I don't at all think DE does this with malicious intentions, but good lord that is a horrible way to go about things. Rivens have the potential to be an amazing endgame system that everyone would want to participate in, it would absolutely be worth the time for them to make it more universally appealing.

Edited February 21, 2020 by DrBorris

[Goldenrice]

3 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

A quote from [DE]Scott on why DE hasn't implemented Riven "stat locking" from a stream he did with Tactical Potato.

So basically, DE doesn't want to because they are worried that we would become too "OP".

But it is apparently okay for someone to win the lottery and be "OP"... I don't even know where to begin on how scummy this looks. Like, I get where he is coming from, and I don't at all think DE does this with malicious intentions, but good lord that is a horrible way to go about things. Rivens have the potential to be an amazing endgame system that everyone would want to participate in, it would absolutely be worth the time for them to make it more universally appealing.

I dont like his explanation at all.....it brings to question:

What balance is being disrupted if instead 1 person in a lobby has a godroll riven, all 4 players do?

Does riven disposition changes every 3 months address balance?

Man I wish the community could really get loud about this current riven system to get DE to atleast address the status quo in 2020

[Mr.Fluffins]

I believe that Rivens were a mistake and should be removed from the game.

Why? Because of what Steve said.

They are too powerful at their best. If you make top rolls too accessible (regardless of the mean, stat locking, fusions, huge resource sinks, doesn't matter) then you have to balance the end-game around people having this sort of stuff. If you balance the game around this sort of stuff, then the rivens become simply another grind/resource gate between regular players and endgame, and nobody likes that (I mean just check how many people complain about RJ being too expensive to make, and it's not even that big of a deal).

But because rivens and their god rolls are in the game, we have the situation where some people (either through luck or tons of kuva) are way too poweful for the game to handle, and cant really be challenged, at least by conventional means (they can still get their asses kicked in RJ). It's just, in my opinion, a very unhealthy situation.

Edited February 21, 2020 by Mr.Fluffins

[(PSN)bd202020]

16 hours ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

I believe that Rivens were a mistake and should be removed from the game.

Why? Because of what Steve said.

They are too powerful at their best. If you make top rolls too accessible (regardless of the mean, stat locking, fusions, huge resource sinks, doesn't matter) then you have to balance the end-game around people having this sort of stuff. If you balance the game around this sort of stuff, then the rivens become simply another grind/resource gate between regular players and endgame, and nobody likes that (I mean just check how many people complain about RJ being too expensive to make, and it's not even that big of a deal).

But because rivens and their god rolls are in the game, we have the situation where some people (either through luck or tons of kuva) are way too poweful for the game to handle, and cant really be challenged, at least by conventional means (they can still get their asses kicked in RJ). It's just, in my opinion, a very unhealthy situation.

Some players like to feel powerful in a game, and if they choose to spend a large number of plat or invest their time to farm a load of Kuva to get that godroll then why should that be an issue for other players. just like if a player wants a challenge in game they could always opt to try the content by nerfing their own builds with unranked or no mods etc. Player choice is always the best option, removing that choice should never be the answer in my opinion..

[DarthIronclad]

i am neutral about rivens for the most part...

 

as for me and rivens in the game,i dont buy them...i mainly get them through ways that i can get them in game,like sorties,riven silvers and GoTL.

i will roll them a couple of times,and make a build for them if they are good enough by my standards...but if i am unable to get a good roll within 30 rolls,i will dissolve them.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Rivens have Pros and cons: they have unbalanced the game in places, but they've also rescued many weapons from the MR fodder bin, and made them viable for those wanting to use them.

I don't think it should be easy to access "god-rolls", otherwise the point of them being randomized is lost when all people will go for is the absolute maximum damage boosting stats with either no negative or a negligible one like -Zoom. nobody actually NEEDS them anyway, and if RNG bestows an incredible riven roll upon you, then I see no reason not to keep it or sell it for ludicrous plat, if you can find someone willing to pay whatever exorbitant price you're asking.

[Goldenrice]

On 2020-02-22 at 5:57 AM, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

Rivens have Pros and cons: they have unbalanced the game in places, but they've also rescued many weapons from the MR fodder bin, and made them viable for those wanting to use them.

I don't think it should be easy to access "god-rolls", otherwise the point of them being randomized is lost when all people will go for is the absolute maximum damage boosting stats with either no negative or a negligible one like -Zoom. nobody actually NEEDS them anyway, and if RNG bestows an incredible riven roll upon you, then I see no reason not to keep it or sell it for ludicrous plat, if you can find someone willing to pay whatever exorbitant price you're asking.

Even if youre not chasing godrolls, you gotta agree this current system doesnt respect the players time investment

Its 2020, time to update this outdated system...

[Morthal]

Here's my 3 cents: 
Rivens likely won't ever be non-tradable due to the fact that people will buy plat, in order to buy a specific Riven. 
The argument that Rivens would be "2 StRoNk" if we were able to keep stats or upgrade is just nonsense. Set all weapon disposition to neutral and rework the weapon stats, since it's the weapon's base stats and mechanics that make it OP, not the Riven.<----- Use Kuva weapons as an example here.
Lastly, the current cost to roll rivens is absolutely stupid and makes no sense aside from trying to keep people from rolling. We go from 900 Kuva, which is still REALLY high ( mind you only get 200 from 5 Minutes of Taveuni...spare me you booster and kavat sales) up to 3500 Kuva per roll.  

The way things are now with 120 Riven Capacity and the terrible chances that we'll get anything decent per roll...might as well make it into another side game that detracts from the headliners of RNG, like Failjack.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Morthal

[SordidDreams]

On 2020-02-21 at 6:08 PM, SneakyErvin said:

I can see a system similar to kuva weapon upgrading if the riven becomes untradable the moment you start to upgrade it.

That would defeat the point of rivens, which is to drive plat sales.

[Morthal]

Just now, SordidDreams said:

That would defeat the point of rivens, which is to drive plat sales.

I smell what your cooking, but the Kuva and time costs are already doing this.

[tzadquiel]

12 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

That would defeat the point of rivens, which is to drive plat sales.

i think you need to update yourself. rivens since very long have dropped on prices thanks to kuva availability. only rivens that see hikes are for new powerful weapons, like bramma etc. those normalize over time. 

[SordidDreams]

Just now, tzadquiel said:

i think you need to update yourself. rivens since very long have dropped on prices thanks to kuva availability. only rivens that see hikes are for new powerful weapons, like bramma etc. those normalize over time. 

And why do you think DE keep releasing those? Sounds to me like you haven't really connected the dots.

[tzadquiel]

9 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

And why do you think DE keep releasing those? Sounds to me like you haven't really connected the dots.

... are you asking me why DE is releasing new weapons?
because its the condition of their survival, they made a game so content needs releasing to keep people playing. 

any other 101 questions? 🙂

[SordidDreams]

2 minutes ago, tzadquiel said:

... are you asking me why DE is releasing new weapons?
because its the condition of their survival, they made a game so content needs releasing to keep people playing. 

any other 101 questions? 🙂

Yes. Why do you answer rhetorical questions?

[Yamazuki]

2 hours ago, tzadquiel said:

i think you need to update yourself. rivens since very long have dropped on prices thanks to kuva availability. only rivens that see hikes are for new powerful weapons, like bramma etc. those normalize over time. 

You're referring to poorly rolled rivens, or unrolled rivens for undesirable weapons. Decently rolled Rivens, or unrolled rivens for high demand weapons, sell for too high of an amount for average players to afford without buying plat.

Either way, the post you responded to is also incorrect. If it was possible to get good rivens through progression, and couldn't be traded, it would probably be something designed to be very long term that only a minority would even bother with it, and said minority already has enough plat to currently buy what ever overpriced perfect Riven they want, meaning the people who currently buy plat to spend on Rivens to bypass all the time it would take just to even get a mediocre Riven still wouldn't bother with Riven progression.

In the end, it's very unlikely DE will never address the major issues around how poor the Riven system even is. They don't seem interested in doing at least the basic thing of Rivens being tied to weapon class, rather than specific weapons, even though each weapon even of the same type but different variant has their own dispositions now.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Yamazuki

[More-L]

Rivens should have never been tradable once unveiled, and a veiled riven should not have had a "class" (primary/shotgun/secondary/kitgun/melee) and simply worked like whatever you unveil it on, is what "class" it gets so you unveil a riven on a melee to get a random melee riven or a secondary to get a random secondary riven etc.

But either someone at DE was really smart and knew exactly what was going to happen with heavy stacked RNG being tradable, or no-one at DE (with any say in the matter) had foresight. I like rivens, but the only price I would buy any is for under 200p, if I don't get it from RNG w/e.

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

That would defeat the point of rivens, which is to drive plat sales.

Do you even economy bro? Or do you simply not understand what I ment with upgrading. I didnt mean the moment you start rerolling it, I ment the moment you start using this new idea of a system.

Even if what you claim would be a case and not just a conspiracy assumption it isnt how economy works. Things would even out to the same as they are now. Demand would still be high on god rivens since many people are lazy, the supply of them might get lower (doubtful since they are near max already), so the price might increase. Velied rivens would sell for more since they can be used as guaranteed upgrades (if you follow my idea which you completely ignored in the context) and low rolled rivens or trash would also be more appealing to buy since you'd get a starting point for your upgrading.

[SordidDreams]

9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I didnt mean the moment you start rerolling it, I ment the moment you start using this new idea of a system.

You're right, I didn't realize that's what you meant. On the other hand, that just defeats the point even more. Bro.

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

You're right, I didn't realize that's what you meant. On the other hand, that just defeats the point even more. Bro.

How? Please do elaborate how that would defeat the assumed economical point when in the end it would be the same or more profitable.