Arbitrations are hard for caster frames

[Yamazuki]

For some missions, drones really only attach to a lot of enemies if you're camping in one spot, which I guess is one of the things drones are meant to discourage. Considering I pug these all the time, I've only ran into a few instances where the group camped a spot, without camping, drones often spawn in areas alone and can be killed before they attach to anything.

Interception is still afk-able with a Nova present, so drones didn't really change that.

Saryn is still usable, and you could always alter your build if you're using the generic build that 99% of people use to focus a bit more on your weapon, with spores being supplementary rather than the main focus if you're having issues with spores.

Even if you're right, and Saryn did suck in Arb, that would hardly be an issue, given she's dominant in other content.

[protecttheplanet]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb Yamazuki:

For some missions, drones really only attach to a lot of enemies if you're camping in one spot, which I guess is one of the things drones are meant to discourage. Considering I pug these all the time, I've only ran into a few instances where the group camped a spot, without camping, drones often spawn in areas alone and can be killed before they attach to anything.

Interception is still afk-able with a Nova present, so drones didn't really change that.

Saryn is still usable, and you could always alter your build if you're using the generic build that 99% of people use to focus a bit more on your weapon, with spores being supplementary rather than the main focus if you're having issues with spores.

Even if you're right, and Saryn did suck in Arb, that would hardly be an issue, given she's dominant in other content.

Sure if u make this discussion only about saryn u might win but this is not only about saryn.

yall people must really hate on casters if u like a mode where casters are denied their full power so much that you would argue against the little changes i am suggesting. i guess in your opinion de could outright delete casters and make warframe a generic shooter. put arbi drones and nullifiers in every mission and put a cooldown on melee so u cant spam it. there u have it, ur soulless generic looter shooter i dont want warframe to become. also funny how yall think shooting drones is a challenge. really low standards i must say

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by protecttheplanet

[SpringRocker]

3 minutes ago, protecttheplanet said:

yall people must really hate on casters if u like a mode where casters are denied their full power so much that you would argue against the little changes i am suggesting.

Half the frames either clear or CC everything. Arguing that a game modes that's SUPPOSED to be harder shouldn't have to have you shoot a target now and again is ridiculous.

If drones make you angry that you can't just spam abilities to kill everything then arbs might not be for you.

[(PSN)Mono-Pop]

8 hours ago, protecttheplanet said:

First of all I like arbitrations. The requirement of finishing the star chart is amazing. Basically nobody has to be carried. But one thing bugs me, and its the drones. If DE wanted to give us a good endgame, they should have raised the enemy levels to 150 from the start and left out the drones. The mode is biased towards healers and tanks, damage frames like saryn or volt barely make sense in arbis because half of the enemies are immune against abilities. It's the worst against chain like abilities like saryns spores or volts 4 because the effect ends on drone affected enemies. 

Am I the only one who feels like caster frames have been left out in this Mode? I really wanna play saryn and nidus but it makes less sense to choose them than lets say Oberon or valkyr.

Take the Arca plasmor with you and kill arbi drones from 20m+ without aiming.

[schilds]

Nobody is hating on casters. We like casters, we play casters, we take casters into arbis, and we do fine.

Edited March 12, 2020 by schilds

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

1 hour ago, schilds said:

Nobody is hating on casters. We like casters, we play casters, we take casters into arbis, and we do fine.

I'm MR 28 and have been playing since the start on PS4 and I honestly don't understand what the being a caster has to do with Warframe since every frame has access to the same weapons and Operator mode. I understand the oversimplification of calling frames like Rhino, Inaros and Grendel tanks because of their high defense, but I play ESO with Khora and while I mostly Whipclaw and Strangle Dome (aka casting), I will gladly shoot a Nullifier bubble or high armor target because it is the most efficient way to deal with them. Does that make me a caster since 99%+ of my damage is from casting? And if so, why the heck wouldn't you bring a weapon to cover your weakness?

Edited March 13, 2020 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph

[schilds]

@(PS4)Hiero_Glyph

It's a simplification for the purpose of this discussion.

[-AncientWarrior-]

Come on Tennos .. Arbitration is a great alterative to the normal .. drones make it interesting .. but I play a moving melee style anyway so they are easy to smash.. but I have had great games 1-2hrs long with almost every frame.. admittedly they usually are with higher MR players that know how to use the frames and weapons.  I played 2hrs the other day with an Oberon, and me as Inaros.. it was very much fun.  Today 1.5hrs with a Nova, of all classes I though this one would be smashed after 1hr, but he/she definately knew how to play Nova.  Mag yesterday for an hr.  Its not the frame thats the problem .. its the knowledge of using the said warframe and the users ability to mod it correctly.  The only thing really wrong with Arbi is the poor Vitus drop rates (since thats really why we are there right).. even with smeetas and boosters.. but the game mode itself is great.  DE could make the Smeetas "planet charm" in Arbi give us Vitus instead of the planet resourse, if they were nice 😉 .. I have enough resources to fund an army...  

[Travis05]

You want efficiency and fairness. I guess its the same logic followed by people who use kuva brama on arbitrations cause AOE kill the drones faster.

The mode could be better? Yes. How? Well i didnt see good ideas on this post. If someone can inspire DE, then please do it, but like i said doubt someone will give a solution.

In the meantime be more flexible. Get out of your comfort zone. Adapt. You are way too rigid. Your solutions will only give us room cleaners again, like its happening on the rest of the game.

[(NSW)Conn1496]

9 hours ago, protecttheplanet said:

strategic would be a team of frames with different roles like in any other game. 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 buffer, 1 dps. u could even make entire new builds dedicated to teamplay instead of the solo builds one normally uses.

honesty i fail to see the strategy in making casters less effective, leaving a whole role out of one of the most rewarding game modes. where is the strategy in shooting with ur aoe weapon in the general direction of the enemies? where is the strategy in melee spamming when u will eventually hit the drones anyways with primed reach? i dont wanna criticize it too much because thats like 99% of what I did, do and will do and i love it. but that gameplay is not changed for the better just because i will shoot and melee onlyt instead of shooting, meleeing and casting.

Well, basically speaking, taking the correct weapons and frames is strategy. Just because it happens out of the main action doesn't make it not part of the game. If loadouts weren't part of the strategy, you'd drag your ass out there with just a Stug and do fine. Sure, it's restrictive to ask the player to bring specific things in specific circumstances, but Warframe doesn't do this just for Arbitrations (and speaking about game design as a whole, it definitely isn't limited to Warframe). --and it's basically down to personal preference whether you like that or not (As a quick note: I personally think Warframe does enough justice by their frames by rarely making a frame completely worthless even if their gameplan doesn't fit the mission quite as well.) and thinking it's bad just because it restricts certain options really isn't a fair assessment to me when not only is that quite clearly the intent - to test you without certain tools at your disposal and make sure not only your kit, but your in-game strategy as a whole is thought out - but it definitely is a way to shake the game up.

Now does it fully work as intended as a part of game design? Not completely, no. Warframe in general is on the easier side, so kit restrictions usually fall flat a little anyway. It'll be a minor inconvenience at most, but unless you really mess up your loadout you can pretty much brute force your way through anything. The scales of "player power" and "skill needed" are pretty clearly weighed often towards players being powerful, so of course it's jarring when that power doesn't work in the same way anymore. Though, along the same thought of balancing player power and skill, I'm sure someone has walked into Arbitrations with a Stug as their only weapon (AKA: really messing up their loadout), despite weapons being important in Arbitrations, and somehow done well because their skill as a player just completely ignores balance altogether.. I'm sorry to all of the two Stug fans out there, I'm just excessively using it as an example of a bad gun because it's notorious. In the same way you can walk into Arbitrations with a caster frame if you want and still do well. It's just, of course, a little more effort. Not everything has to be easy free in Warframe, even if that's honestly the trend. I honestly don't think DE even intended the game to be so damn easy in the first place, they just really clearly care about not frustrating their players and made a few balance slip-ups that threw the game in that direction naturally.

Overall I just don't think you can really criticise only Arbitrations alone for negating the use of certain tools (and not even completely, mind) when other parts of the game quite literally restrict certain tools in much much less fun ways (Hello Grendel missions and "___ only" sorties. Still slog my way through those though.), and most other parts of the game are also skewed towards certain strategies, but in more natural ways like requiring either a very offense  ^{_{*very quiet sobbing about trying to solo ESO*}} or defense heavy build (some of which honestly are far, far worse than Arbitrations).

Now, am I gonna say "get good" like others have? Nah. But I don't think there's anything wrong with saying "get better if you want to use whatever you want and still win", because your preferred tools just won't work for everything... -unless you're just really damn good at it, obviously.

[Yxivi]

6 hours ago, protecttheplanet said:

Sure if u make this discussion only about saryn u might win but this is not only about saryn.

yall people must really hate on casters if u like a mode where casters are denied their full power so much that you would argue against the little changes i am suggesting. i guess in your opinion de could outright delete casters and make warframe a generic shooter. put arbi drones and nullifiers in every mission and put a cooldown on melee so u cant spam it. there u have it, ur soulless generic looter shooter i dont want warframe to become. also funny how yall think shooting drones is a challenge. really low standards i must say

 

Most of the game mode in warframe can be dominated by caster nukers. Arbi is the only mode where their nuking effectiveness is halved by a bit. If you keep an eye on those drones and prioritize them, then your nuker frame will be happily nuking again. Or you know, if you coordinate with people, they will make your nuker frame even more effective coz they can take out the drones and buff you at the same time while you mindlessly spam your abilities. Seriously, it just takes a few seconds to shoot a drone. 

I'm not saying the Arbi and arbi drones are the best, but they encourage trying out different loadouts, and it's obviously what the devs wanted to happen here. I just don't understand how you think they are being discriminated here when it's probably one of the few game mode where the other frames can get to shine.

What's next? Eidolon fight and how Saryn is made completely useless there? 

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

I think Arbitrations just show how awful the survivability of some Warframes actually is.

I mean, look at Banshee. Hydroid's a pretty poor option too unless you're camping in your puddle, the list goes on.

[(XBOX)Furious Kaiser]

Alternatively, they could take a second look at ESO, where caster frames DO shine. Retweak it so the scaling curve isn't as bad after round 8, and add something more worthwhile to the loot pool other then a .0003% (being sarcastic here) chance at some spoopy fashionframe (which they outdid with lich ephemeras, IMO).

IMO, instead of tweaking each "endgame" game mode to cater to ALL types, make/tweak more game modes that cater to certain play styles.

[schilds]

Banshee and Hydroid survive just fine for the number of rounds most ppl play in Arbis (half an hour to an hour).

Edited March 13, 2020 by schilds

[AzureTerra]

I have not done a large amount of them but from what i have done "caster" frames havent been overly in-convinced in them, the drones are a speed bump that need to be dealt with anyway and unless your going to in with a self limited loadout the arsenal on offer in warframe is very much capable of covering any short fall that occasional loss of powers might do. 

[SneakyErvin]

14 hours ago, protecttheplanet said:

again, u dont kill a drone and are magically able to hit everything with ur abilities. again, its just 5 enemies ur setting free.

Why yes, you are "magically able to hit everything with your abilities. Only the enemies closest to the drone will be immune, ever. The drones have a rather small area that they can link to, and taking out the drone kills everything it is linked to aswell. So you can use your abilities as much as you like to kill everything constantly that doesnt have a drone attached.

So say there are 40 mobs on the map in one go, 2 groups of 5 or so have a drone with them, that means you can still wipe out 75% of the mobs on the map in one single cast and then just pop the drones with one or a few shots depending on your prefered weapon while also wiping his friends from the map.

[Psianide73]

21 hours ago, protecttheplanet said:

i play valkyr chroma rhino saryn volt nidus frost nova oberon in arbis... so tanks, a healer and casters... waht are u even implying? That i dont know how to bypass the ability immunity and shoot the drones before? If i could show u the last 100 results of arbis i would have done in 90 of them the most damage and killed the most enemies... but u guys are undermining me,a cting like im carried, dont know how to shoot or melee (lol), can only use frames one dimensional ...

This is not about me being bad or good, this is about the design choice of leaving the enemies at fodder level (80) and adding drones which only really hinder caster frames.. tank, healers and weapons dont care about drones, only damaging abilities do

I'm implying that you want Saryn and Volt to be able to nuke the map in arbitrations with as little effort as possible.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that they're strong in ESO, as I'm currently farming it daily for focus. But I'm also glad that content exists that makes it difficult for them, as it (maybe) makes it less likely they'll be nerfed.