HARDER TOUGHER MISSIONS = more fun in Warframe!

[hungryghost84]

I wish there were missions that started at lvl 100, and of course with scaling rewards to make the mission worthwhile to partake in. 

I find myself logging into warframe now to try out new builds and level up some weapons, but there is no way to enjoy the overpowered modded frames and weapons when the enemies are basically just paper cutouts with no real threat. Higher threat lvls create a sense of emergency, a possibility that you might lose the mission, and that's what keeps you modding and leveling up your armaments. As of now there is little motivation to become better when the ceiling is so low. Sorties are nice but you can only do them once a day and arbies are just endurance runs. What would be nice is missions that you could take on that are tough right off the bat. 

Warframe is indeed really fun, and I play to relax, but not on a level where my hands fall asleep on the keyboard because the enemies are basically just shooting peanuts at you.  

Remember, if there is a goal to chase (which is to always improve your armaments), there needs to be a motivating factor which would be tough missions that require such powered armaments

[NoSpax]

"Elite Sortie" with Arbitration Rules?

Instead of 3 Phases uses 5 Phases and no bleedout, the team cannot even revive you.

[KIREEK]

DE has been making things easier over time, especially with the introduction of self reviving, meaning a crucial member of the team can revive on his own instead of having other players dedicate time to do so.

You do have lvl5 lich missions, some of which have a VERY high chance of failure like defense and mobile defense (you probably know why) and sortie 3.

Now the game does allow you to do things, but DE is also trying to make things rewarding for players who display more effort, on the short term this is almost unimportant, but on the long term, it adds up.
Players who kill more, defend better, engage better and do things faster will, on the long term, receive more rewards per time spent, they will also fail less, abandon less and will often make things a breeze, i understand you want scaling rewards, maybe in the future that will happen, but in a defense, being better simply means doing waves faster, in a survival, you kill more and loot more.

I'll give you an example.
In a sortie 3 survival, you endure 10 minutes and afterwards you receive an anasa statue (for completing all 3), that's all fine, but another player did the exact same survival, looted way more (resources, mods, credits), found 3 ayatan stars and found an ayatan statue, after that game he traded the rare stance mod he found for 3 filled ayatan statues.

Meaning after 3 missions (where the 1st 2 were a bit unlucky and without much loot), this player gathered 5 ayatan statues, 3 of them being filled already, the effort was rewarded

The more things you find that you can trade afterwards, the more rewards you get for trading, but you need that stuff 1st, you can either rely on end of mission rewards or you can do a single mission and then double or triple your gains, why gain a relic, when you can trade something you found for 2 or 3.

Liches are a profitable gamemode and it requires many missions to actually defeat it (in general), so the faster you finish them off, the more liches you get per time spent, you get the idea.

[(PSN)Dorian-Hawkmoon]

Not to mention, most every attempt DE has made to throw hard missions at the players, is met with loud voices claiming 'it's to hard. DE needs to nerf it'. It's a hard balancing act they try to play to. I agree, there should be a few more 'challenging' missions for the more veteran players, But it does seem like every time they throw one out, they get all kinds of grief for their efforts.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

Simply having higher level enemies isn't enough.

DE likes to bounce between content with hoards of mind-numbing trash to wade through, and slow bullet sponges that painfully drag on but aren't technically any more difficult.

They need to change the flow of combat by using both. Have the hoards of trash mobs that die from a sneeze, but they need to sprinkle in a lot more enemies like Nox that force you to slow down and think/aim/react appropriately based on specific strategies instead of "press 4".

[hungryghost84]

11 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

DE has been making things easier over time, especially with the introduction of self reviving, meaning a crucial member of the team can revive on his own instead of having other players dedicate time to do so.

You do have lvl5 lich missions, some of which have a VERY high chance of failure like defense and mobile defense (you probably know why) and sortie 3.

Now the game does allow you to do things, but DE is also trying to make things rewarding for players who display more effort, on the short term this is almost unimportant, but on the long term, it adds up.
Players who kill more, defend better, engage better and do things faster will, on the long term, receive more rewards per time spent, they will also fail less, abandon less and will often make things a breeze, i understand you want scaling rewards, maybe in the future that will happen, but in a defense, being better simply means doing waves faster, in a survival, you kill more and loot more.

I'll give you an example.
In a sortie 3 survival, you endure 10 minutes and afterwards you receive an anasa statue (for completing all 3), that's all fine, but another player did the exact same survival, looted way more (resources, mods, credits), found 3 ayatan stars and found an ayatan statue, after that game he traded the rare stance mod he found for 3 filled ayatan statues.

Meaning after 3 missions (where the 1st 2 were a bit unlucky and without much loot), this player gathered 5 ayatan statues, 3 of them being filled already, the effort was rewarded

The more things you find that you can trade afterwards, the more rewards you get for trading, but you need that stuff 1st, you can either rely on end of mission rewards or you can do a single mission and then double or triple your gains, why gain a relic, when you can trade something you found for 2 or 3.

Liches are a profitable gamemode and it requires many missions to actually defeat it (in general), so the faster you finish them off, the more liches you get per time spent, you get the idea.

As a matter of fact I actually like doing lich hunting, i have every single kuva weapon and 5 of them are already maxed out to 60% bonus elements (lots and lots of lich farming). The only real reason why i like hunting the liches is that the missions are harder and more satisfying to beat. I run lich missions with almost every single warframe just to test them out and see if the builds are good, or maybe the synergies work with weapons; a way to test your mettle against worthy opponents.  

If there were more missions that can test us out (BY CHOICE....not like them grendel missions) it will certainly be healthy for warframe as a game overall

[Marine027]

Only way DE knows to make harder are bulletsponges tho, immune to abilitys and so on, I personaly see it not more challenging and more annyoing and taking more time simply, while actual mechanics like using your envoirment and or devices or items around the room you need to use to beat a boss as example, Exploiter is kinda nice since you not just gun it down, still can get repetetive, Sargas Ruk with his weakpoints, Alad V with Zanuka as weakspot basically, etc.Those are more challangeign if they would scale right.

Problem is the scaling is horrible, eather one shots or take to long or enemys one shot you, even with shield gating now. Nothing more "harder" or challenging in this, i enjoy the game for the empowerment it gives you, killing so many enemys at once, damage is the meta, while i would wish for more variety makign CC and Support more relevant aswell as example.

Edited March 18, 2020 by Marine027
Typos

[8faiNt]

Listen DE
When we say that we like grind, we are not talking about doing the same thing over and over again for 4 hours.
When we say that we like challange, we are not talking about making the enemies bulletsponge.

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by 8faiNt

[Loza03]

19 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

When we say that we like grind, we are not talking about doing the same thing over and over again for 4 hours.

Yes you are, as that's literally what grind is... Wikipedia defines it as: 

Quote

In video games, grinding is performing repetitive tasks, usually for a gameplay advantage or loot but in some cases for purely aesthetic or cosmetic benefits

It should also be noted however, that Warframe is literally cited on Wikipedia as a major example of grinding, alongside the likes of EVE online and Runescape. I'm not disagreeing that the scale of grind isn't severe.

 

 

All right, onto my actual point.

I'm a proponent for harder content in Warframe, but he's a thing - we can't get that right now, because the gameplay isn't suited. The game's balance is busted, and so DE can't make interesting content that doesn't revolve around nukes or mass CC - at least not without disabling those abilities entirely. They've (finally) realised this with Warframe revised, and hopefully will continue this in the future, but balance is required before interesting encounters can be made. And interesting encounters don't have to be difficult, but most good difficult encounters are also interesting, because interesting usually means it's in someway challenging. Kirby might not be a difficult franchise, but it has solid core gameplay, usually offers interesting settings, abilities and bosses, and if it wants to it can turn up the difficulty. Warframe can't.

[GPrime96]

Enemies at lvl 300+ was what i went against for the Weapon i got before Mainline. After, i can be against lvl 500 - 1.4K+ and still murder the enemies like lvl 100s since the Armor/Health Scaling got cranked down. Because of the current Scaling, lvl 9,999 enemies becomes the “high” levels. Problem with that is if you want those enemies, you would have to wait probably 8 - 12 Hours in a Survival. So i lost hope on those runs since it would take me a really long time before i get to the Point where the enemies are going to take a beating instead of 2 Hours previously. So if you want something to match our Damage, GL.

[8faiNt]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

Yes you are, as that's literally what grind is... Wikipedia defines it as: 

Have your definition

If you enjoyed the opticor vandal grind or the kuva lich grind, clearly, your time is not as valuable as mine. Excessive grind is NEVER fun.

Edited March 17, 2020 by 8faiNt

[Loza03]

4 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

Have your definition

If you enjoyed the opticor vandal grind or the kuva lich grind, clearly, your time is not as valuable as mine. Excessive grind is NEVER fun.

That's really neither here nor there. I don't particularly like either, but the fact remains that's what grind IS.

[(PSN)thegarada]

2 hours ago, Marine027 said:

Only way DE knwos to make harder are bulletsponges tho, immune to abilitys and so on, I personaly see it not more challenging and more annyoing and taking more time simply, while actual mechanics like using your envoirmnent and or devices or items around the room you need to use to beat a boss as example, Exploiter is kinda nice since you not just gun it down, still can ger repetetive, Sargas Ruk with his weakpoints, Alad V with Zanuka as weakspot basically, etc.Those are more challangeign if they would scale right.

Problem is the scaling is horrible, eather one shots or take to long or enemys one shot you even with shield gating now. Nothing more "harder" or challenging in this, i enjoy the game for the emporement it gives you, killing so many enemys at once, damage is the meta, while i would wish for more variety makign CC and Support more relevant aswell as example.

The problem you run into, is after ~1,000 hours players will have a few top weapons fully decked with rivens. I have like ~1,300 hours and I eat level 100 mobs like candy. Arbitrations need 30-40 minutes to get challenging. Same for Mot. And I do now want to send 30 minutes so mobs become remotely engaging. And yes, I prefer mechanics over bullet sponges, but we have neither. Anything below level 150 can be killed in under 2 secs with most decked melee weapons. Yet most content is level 30-50. I can literally leave the game for 10-15 secs before mobs can kill my frame, then heal instantly while being invulnerable. 

I am not looking for challenge, I just want content to be...engaging. More level 100 content would be a start. It is not content for everyone, but we need more content similar to Kuva Flood, difficulty wise, to come close to veteran players power. 

 

[(XBOX)Red Dough Boy]

I like the idea of a kind of tower battle, and having it save progress so players can just stick to the highest level stuff they want for proper challenges while other players can stick to the low and medium difficulty levels.  Something like sanctuary onslaught but an Orokin tower with no time limit and scaling difficulty. 

 

One way I've found to make this game more interesting is to play solo for most levels, if the enemy only has you to target you do have to play a bit smarter since there's no one else for enemies to focus on and no one else to deal damage. 

[(XBOX)Calliber]

22 hours ago, (PS4)Dorian-Hawkmoon said:

Not to mention, most every attempt DE has made to throw hard missions at the players, is met with loud voices claiming 'it's to hard. DE needs to nerf it'. 

^ This.  The majority of players start crying if they can't clear something in under 5 minutes or start seeing the failure screen pop up.  We who enjoy a challenge tend to be of the minority. Yes, you could self-gimp a build, but what I really want to do is push my build till it breaks.

[Deus-Ex-Vesania]

Am 17.3.2020 um 18:10 schrieb 8faiNt:

Listen DE
When we say that we like grind

People like the grind?

[nadeemh]

I've been on a quest for more challenge. I've solo'ed everything in the game: Tridolons (I'm slow, but still), Railjack, John Prodman, etc. Right now I'm on my 50th Lich with the aim to farm all the ephemera and improve my kuva weapons' elemental stats - but this is going to be done soon and then that's another personal challenge done. Survivals have become boring since the enemy nerf and those were my main go-to missions when I wanted to have some fun.

Arbitrations are maybe a little more challenging now (especially with the infested doing more damage) but there's only so much endo and sculptures that I can stomach before I've had enough (seriously - 100 waves of defence and only 6 non-endo rewards!). And what on earth am I supposed to do with all the vitus essence I have? It's fast become a redundant currency.

I've started trying to run Lich missions with frames that aren't suitable for the mission type but they are not fun at all - although I have learnt a few more things from it.

All in all, I'm getting a little dejected at how the game is gradually being skewered more towards the newer players. Whilst I understand the move, I do so wish that there were missions that started at higher levels with rewards to match. Cosmetics limited to only those who have participated in these missions would be fine by me if DE doesn't want to mess up the power balancing.

Having said all of that though, T5 survivals are nice. I'm not fed up with those yet... except those damned amber stars in the requiem relics... Why DE??? WHY? Of course the solution to minimise getting an amber star from a requiem relic is to play with a squad - I know - but I like to be able to pause the game and see to my children and be able to answer the phone when a client calls me (yes, yes, I work from home and play during working hours when I want to).

Sorry, I've digressed and ranted enough. In short, I'm with OP on this. If we could have missions that start at a higher level and present suitable rewards then I would be happier.