Curiosity about the impact of Limbo’s stasis being changed

[(NSW)Greybones]

Not having the Scarlet Spear event yet, I’ve heard a lot about Limbo’s trivialising a part of the event, and then he was changed to not trivialise it (I heard a lot less about the how the change was good, and instead more about how the change was bad).

The way I understand the change is that Sentients now gain resistance to the effects of Stasis? Seems reasonable. If not clever.

It sounds like one faction of enemies now has an option to deal with Limbo’s stasis, while the other factions are still affected normally.

I’ve seen people claim that the change to Limbo has changed how he’s used in the rest of the game, but I’m a little confused since I only encountered a handful of sentients in my gameplay. Aside from Teralysts and Vomvalysts.

What makes the change to Limbo so gamebreaking for those who want to play him? I’d love to get some insight from those who know 

Edited April 4, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones

[ChiefJefe]

Well ... it pretty much removes Limbo from being effectively used due to him being used as designed. It's a knee-jerk reaction by DE because they seem to have forgot how Limbo functions. He's always excelled at defense/mobile defense for the exact same reasons he's being nerfed. There is no good from the change.

As the entire thrust of story/content for the next year or so is the New War vs. the sentients, they're effectively removing him for the next year or so.  There are other frames that can be used to trivialize the event, but I'm not going to name the frames you can use, because I don't want DE nerfing them as well.

There's weapon setups you can use to trivialize Condrix as well, but again, not going to share that on the forums.

[(NSW)Greybones]

44 minutes ago, ChiefJefe said:

Well ... it pretty much removes Limbo from being effectively used due to him being used as designed. It's a knee-jerk reaction by DE because they seem to have forgot how Limbo functions. He's always excelled at defense/mobile defense for the exact same reasons he's being nerfed. There is no good from the change.

As the entire thrust of story/content for the next year or so is the New War vs. the sentients, they're effectively removing him for the next year or so.  There are other frames that can be used to trivialize the event, but I'm not going to name the frames you can use, because I don't want DE nerfing them as well.

There's weapon setups you can use to trivialize Condrix as well, but again, not going to share that on the forums.

I’m not understanding the justification for the claim he’s not being used. 
The Grineer, Infested, Corrupted, and Corpus enemies are still affected in the same way, aren’t they? And from what I know they make up a majority of the content throughout the game (I could be wrong at the highest levels)

I’ve seen that term, knee-jerk, used before. 
If DE hadn’t knee-jerked a fix, wouldn’t the event have ended before they had a chance to really sit down and think about it? With Limbo reigning supreme as the win button for an entire chunk of it. At the moment, basing it off my first question, it feels like a knee-jerk to the event that ultimately barely affects the main game (could be wrong)

You’re not wrong that the push into Sentients is a thing in the future. If you know what exactly it entails though, I’d have to wonder about your sources. There’s a chance they could use similar mission types as what we’ve got. There’s a chance that what they’ll be doing may not have been up Limbo’s alley anyways. And if there is a chance that Limbo would be used, I’d be kind of bothered if he was intentionally a win condition. (I’m really not keen on diving into speculation as if it’s fact)

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones

[keyosbringer]

Well, when you have a sword that can cut through sentients in a matter of seconds, limbo can still stun them for long enough for you to kill them. 

Limbo is still effective against the grineer & infested, the corpus have nullifier bubble dudes that can cancel his 4, especially if your build is max range.

[Ikserdok]

5 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I’m not understanding the justification for the claim he’s not being used. 
The Grineer, Infested, Corrupted, and Corpus enemies are still affected in the same way, aren’t they? And from what I know they make up a majority of the content throughout the game (I could be wrong at the highest levels)

I’ve seen that term, knee-jerk, used before. 
If DE hadn’t knee-jerked a fix, wouldn’t the event have ended before they had a chance to really sit down and think about it? With Limbo reigning supreme as the win button for an entire chunk of it. At the moment, basing it off my first question, it feels like a knee-jerk to the event that ultimately barely affects the main game (could be wrong)

You’re not wrong that the push into Sentients is a thing in the future. If you know what exactly it entails though, I’d have to wonder about your sources. There’s a chance that what they’ll be doing may not have been up Limbo’s alley anyways. (I’m really not keen on diving into speculation as if it’s fact)

 

after all almost nobody is taking limbo on normal missions with Grineer, Infested, Corrupted, or Corpus - anyway against corpus and corrupted this is not even worth at all with their nullifier bubbles turing off limbo very fast - but just against Grineer and infested normal missions....most people just hate limbo becasue their reasons and so most people will bring jsut dps nuke frame for these missions isntead of limbo where at this place limbo is mostly just slowing mission progress at all so why even bringing him here? so nobody even care about these enemies

and ont he other side are sentients, different story, their adaptation to dmg and after all imunity to 90% of CC frames after all....so from arsenal of some CC frames we have just maybe 2-3 frame able to deal with CC agaisnt sentients and yet one of these frames is getting now nerf while dps, nuke frames are not touched against this

in other words...where on normal missions most people jsut hate, dont like limbo because they reasons, becasue limbo dont have place here mostly because in most cases he is just slowing down missions, we had finally an mission, place perfect for limbo to be viable, to not be and ball on chaing for group and yet even this place got destroyed for limbo

[--DSP--Jetstream]

20 minutes ago, ChiefJefe said:

There are other frames that can be used to trivialize the event, but I'm not going to name the frames you can use, because I don't want DE nerfing them as well.

There's weapon setups you can use to trivialize Condrix as well, but again, not going to share that on the forums.

Everyone already know btw, whether someone post on anywhere is irrelevant.

[ChiefJefe]

Tbh, I don't really use Limbo, but nerfing a frame for functioning as they're designed is just wrong-headed. He was released back in the fall of 2014 and sentients I think showed up about a year later. DE has had close to 4 1/2 years to be aware of and make changes to the interaction of Limbo and sentients. That's why it's a knee-jerk reaction and it comes out of nowhere.

The event wouldn't have ended sooner. It's still 30 days long. Waves of Murex ships last for up to 3 hours at a time with a 10 minute break inbetween the next wave.

Limbo being useable as he was just made it so that more players were able to participate and get the awards from Scarlet Spear. Even a newer player without a lot of great mods would have been able to contribute by running Limbo. Additionally if you were running solo for the event Limbo was one of the few ways you would have been able to do so adequately.

The space portion of Scarlet Spear is far easier than the ground mission, even with the Limbo changes, as enemies cap out at a much lower level than on the ground mission, so when the event does come to console I'd definitely recommend running space.

[trst]

To be perfectly honest the only kneejerk reactions are from the community.

Sentients, along with other enemies like Lichs and Bosses, gain resistance to abilities on repeated casts. Sentients did not gain resistance to Limbo's Stasis, thus the change.

Literally the only difference is if a Sentient is hit by Stasis more than once each time it'll have a shorter duration, that is all. Limbo is still the best defense option for the event and the only actual change for how playing it goes is that you actually need to kill the Sentients before they get hit by 3+ casts of Stasis which only makes any difference by the 4th or 5th Murex, assuming you/your squad have any difficulties killing lv150 Sentients. Also even if they're hit by Stasis a lot they still get frozen for a short period of time.

Edited April 4, 2020 by trst

[(NSW)Greybones]

11 minutes ago, ChiefJefe said:

Tbh, I don't really use Limbo, but nerfing a frame for functioning as they're designed is just wrong-headed. He was released back in the fall of 2014 and sentients I think showed up about a year later. DE has had close to 4 1/2 years to be aware of and make changes to the interaction of Limbo and sentients. That's why it's a knee-jerk reaction and it comes out of nowhere.

Do you think they should have focused on balancing Limbo around Sentients when there were only a handful that a player ever deals with?

Personally, I’m not surprised that it was now thrust from the shadows of “It’s not that important” into the limelight of “This is a problem” with this event.

I can make an educated guess that the shadows would have been deep enough and old enough that they weren’t even considered. Focus is a limited resource, after all. Can’t be everywhere at once

God now I sound like one of those people who speculate.

Let it be known I have no #*!%ing clue as to what went on at DE!!!

I mean, I have clues through the devstreams. But that is practically nothing to go on

Edited April 4, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones

[darkbrick]

now Limbo is useless
thanks DE

[(PSN)Ragology]

1 hour ago, trst said:

To be perfectly honest the only kneejerk reactions are from the community.

Sentients, along with other enemies like Lichs and Bosses, gain resistance to abilities on repeated casts. Sentients did not gain resistance to Limbo's Stasis, thus the change.

Literally the only difference is if a Sentient is hit by Stasis more than once each time it'll have a shorter duration, that is all. Limbo is still the best defense option for the event and the only actual change for how playing it goes is that you actually need to kill the Sentients before they get hit by 3+ casts of Stasis which only makes any difference by the 4th or 5th Murex, assuming you/your squad have any difficulties killing lv150 Sentients. Also even if they're hit by Stasis a lot they still get frozen for a short period of time.

I've read that newly spawned sentients carry on the stasis resistances of the ones that died before them though. I'm not sure if that's just an event thing or if that's gonna be applied to the whole game.

[(XBOX)Furious Kaiser]

1 hour ago, ChiefJefe said:

Tbh, I don't really use Limbo, but nerfing a frame for functioning as they're designed is just wrong-headed. He was released back in the fall of 2014 and sentients I think showed up about a year later. DE has had close to 4 1/2 years to be aware of and make changes to the interaction of Limbo and sentients. That's why it's a knee-jerk reaction and it comes out of nowhere.

The event wouldn't have ended sooner. It's still 30 days long. Waves of Murex ships last for up to 3 hours at a time with a 10 minute break inbetween the next wave.

Limbo being useable as he was just made it so that more players were able to participate and get the awards from Scarlet Spear. Even a newer player without a lot of great mods would have been able to contribute by running Limbo. Additionally if you were running solo for the event Limbo was one of the few ways you would have been able to do so adequately.

The space portion of Scarlet Spear is far easier than the ground mission, even with the Limbo changes, as enemies cap out at a much lower level than on the ground mission, so when the event does come to console I'd definitely recommend running space.

*looks at Chroma's Vex Armor when PoE and Eidolons hit*

Hasn't been the first time a knee-jerk "fix" has happened when a frame excelled at a new piece of content that they hadn't forseen, when the frame hadn't been touched in years. And it sure as heck will not be the last.

Somewhere in the upcoming New War content, there will be a sentient boss that gets absolutely roflstomped someway, somehow, by a frame and it too will get nerfed when it has been "working as intended" for years. Just expect it.

[vanaukas]

I don't know, I'm using limbo and I don't have any trouble, it's still one of the best choices, my oplinks don't die if I'm paying attention. Aparently being unable to press one button and then going AFK is killing the fun for some people.

[Oreades]

Honestly I didn't notice much of a difference between playing Space Squad before and after the change. 

Maybe if it went past 5 Whatchawhoozles but at that point things are like 100+ anyhow so I'm not sure how much farther I would bother going realistically.

Things effectively paused long enough to get ded

Edited April 4, 2020 by Oreades

[(PSN)psycofang]

2 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I’m not understanding the justification for the claim he’s not being used. 

Because he was one of the least used frames and even worse in team play, theres a bug that i dont believe that has been adressed yet that renders limbos CC worthless after the first wave

He was nerfed as a knee jerk to this event and thats it, he was fine and even off handedly mebtioned as a frame teams build around but now thats not ok.

 

Now we just default back to other frames whose kits dont bug out n stack mesas to blow everything apart.

 

Less effort required on the non Limbos, granted im mostly mad at this bug.

Edited April 4, 2020 by (PS4)psycofang

[trst]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)Ragology said:

I've read that newly spawned sentients carry on the stasis resistances of the ones that died before them though. I'm not sure if that's just an event thing or if that's gonna be applied to the whole game.

In my runs I've not noticed that happening.

However it could very well be the game's spawning system messing with people. Every Murex is actually the exact same map, same drops and enemies. Enemies don't despawn when unloaded instead they're teleported back to players, in the case of the event when people go to the next Murex any remaining enemies from the previous will appear in the "new" one.

Thus any enemies that gained resistance and weren't killed will appear again still with their resistance, which may be what people are experiencing.

But who knows, it could be a host/client discrepancy as I've been host in all my runs as Limbo. Either way I still suspect the spawning system responsible for at least some of it.

[Oreades]

1 minute ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

Now we just default back to other frames whose kits dont bug out 

Pffft, my BAE frame is Khora and her kit is a trainwreck vs sentients. 

Strangledome just strait up does absoheccinloutly nothing and Ensnare is spotty at best. 50% of her kit is CC and DE either just strait up turned it off or it might maybe possibly work but for a significantly reduced time.... if the sentient don't just decide to ignore it outright. 

 

[CaptainMinty]

The problem lies within DE not remembering what frame is exceptional at what role. Limbo excelled at a defensive role, and therefore, an event around defending something brought him into the limelight. He shone so brightly that DE figured they'd kick him in the shins so he'd fall over and not shine so brightly. The problem with this idea is that in doing so, they've established a pattern of changing frames when they've excelled too much during their niche. Who remembers the like 15 changes Saryn got during her rework fiasco? Limbo has always been a frame that is an area lockdown frame. I assume Frost is next eh? He was king of lockdown prior, and all it takes is a few pizzas and he's got a spot on permanent lockdown.
The problem comes from our variety of Frames that allow us to excel in any situation given to us. And when one takes the spotlight for being the best at it during a current event, they get kicked in the shins because screw them. I'm not a fan of nerfing an ability when it was doing exactly what they intended it to do, and then they change their minds because of a new event. Finally a CC frame took the spotlight, and he gets slapped for it. What cruel irony for being out of meta for ages. I'm pretty sure this is the first time Limbo got to be at meta status from being a trollframe. What a turnaround. A comeback story even! And yet, for finally climbing to the top, he's violently kicked down. Lads who love Limbo enough to run him a majority of the time, I'm so sorry. You had your limelight and DE gave you the old one-two punch for it. Big oof.
Meanwhile Mesa still stands as a queen of murder and doesn't get touched. How long has she been relevant in every ounce of content?

[Ikusi_Prime]

All Limbo does is cheese his way through missions. That's his primary function.

If they don't think he should be doing that, then they need to take a long, hard look at another Limbo rework.

[0_The_F00l]

It does not Impact anything in regular missions ,

It only impacts certain players that had gotten used to the "press two buttons and ignore the rest of the world " mentality for the event.

They could have had the foresight to think of the most obvious cheese players could use but foresight was never DEs strong point.

[Annnoth]

Other than being required to kill things and not just AFK for 15 minutes, limbo felt perfectly fine. Had a run earlier where the only useful person in our squad was limbo. I forgot to switch off garuda so I just abused the 40% execution and the other 2 never left the ship. We basically had 0 problem. 

For reference, our gear wasn't even that amazing. The sentients took time to kill by the end and we still got it done fine.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Annnoth

[(NSW)Greybones]

1 hour ago, CaptainMinty said:

The problem lies within DE not remembering what frame is exceptional at what role.

I think it’s a little more complex than that. It sounded like Limbo was killing the potential for fun for those who fought alongside the user, and the user didn’t care. And we can’t exactly go to a different Scarlet Spear; it sounded like wherever a player went to fight with randoms there was often someone trivialising the space part.

Limbo’s great at lockdown, can’t deny that. This is a time-limited event that had such a strong meta in Limbo that people considered it a problem. They weren’t unjustified complaints, either.

Edited April 4, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones

[akrid45]

They mad because they can no longer AFK the entire raid and now actually have to play the game 

[CaptainMinty]

14 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I think it’s a little more complex than that. It sounded like Limbo was killing the potential for fun for those who fought alongside the user, and the user didn’t care. And we can’t exactly go to a different Scarlet Spear; it sounded like wherever a player went to fight with randoms there was often someone trivializing the space part.

Limbo’s great at lockdown, can’t deny that. This is a time-limited event that had such a strong meta in Limbo that people considered it a problem. They weren’t unjustified complaints, either.

That's a problem with the design of the event then. It's not Limbo's fault that he was stupid good at the job that needed to be done. It's his niche. And in the future he's gonna be just as oppressive if an event arrives for the Grineer or the Corpus, or the Infested that's any kind of similar. This wasn't a good solution to the problem that is Limbo. He's a god, and a good limbo is more impossible to kill than Inaros.

Limbo found himself in meta because of his abilities working as they were intended to. He's a CC frame that made it to the top for once. Lord knows they turn a blind eye when Mesa has been chilling as one of the best damage frames since she was first conceived, and even after hitting her with several nerfs, somehow Mesa stands at the top of damage dealing still. One of the best nukers with fantastic defenses. Limbo shows up for a while and he's the problem? CC obviously isn't the direction DE wants to take. They want damage. No matter how many times they've said they wanna bring CC up, this is why we can't have it ever take the crown. How many enemies are immune to statuses? To numerous forms of CC? All of the ones that are supposed to be difficult enemies. And those that aren't immune are basically fodder that damage dealers sweep through like a scythe through reeds.

This isn't the kind of nerf Limbo should've gotten, because it doesn't fix the problem wholesale. He's still oppressively powerful against every other faction. A better option would've been giving stasis a cooldown after it wears off or is turned off. The longer the stasis, the longer the cooldown. Easy. That way Limbo still remains a monster of CC, while leaving him vulnerable to a counterattack. But DE won't do this because they're not putting enough thought into fixing the overall problem of Limbo controlling every aspect of the battlefield.
 

I think it is entirely stupid to make changes in a hasty manner because in one time limited event some Frame is exceptionally strong. Next event that shows up, another frame is gonna be a monster and they're gonna get kicked in the shins. Despite working as intended for years. And the worst part? Once the event is over, Limbo will still have his nerf, and will fall out of relevance entirely again. Just like he was before.

[IggySnow]

People are blowing this nerf out of proportion. 

he is still by far the best option to keep the oplinks safe. The only thing the nerf did was make it so you cant AFK the event, which imo is a really good change.

Before the change there was a limbo in every squad and the only ones who were able to do anything were the mesas, now there's way less limbo players and the event actually has some challenge to it.