YouTubers and streamers need to be more careful

[AzureTerra]

28 minutes ago, haze777 said:

Its the sole reason I stopped sharing my broken legendary builds , I only use those myself.

So you are willing to keep exploiting loopholes rather than getting fixes for the loopholes out there, fairly typical for a gamer.

[vegetosayajin]

18 minutes ago, schilds said:

By the way, DE don't just have statistics on popularity, they have information on your builds, the missions you take them into and how well you do in them. I don't know if they use all that information, but there are no secrets from them.

True in principle, but there are a lot of "losers" and a few known youtubers/redditers. If there isn't some insane ai algorithm that understands how and why this and that is used, a person has to go trough it all.And I highly doubt that complex google level algorithm exists in wf.
Witch is easier and faster in your opinion:
1. Watch a 5 min video and know what the "meta" is and what you have to nerf.
2. Go trough 50k+(last I saw a number of consistent players a day) builds, gameplay, uses etc and then go and do the same thing.

[schilds]

@vegetosayajin

They wouldn't inspect the dataset manually, they would run an algorithm over it, looking for outliers. They can even extract statistics on often a build is duplicated (they would know whether the secret builds people are boasting of are truly unique), and the range of results different people get with the same build.

Of course a "legendary, broken" build may not show up in whatever algorithm they run, but if it isn't showing up in any of their statistics, is the build really all that broken?

Personally, I think a lot of people are overestimating how good their builds are, and are also overestimating how difficult is to come up with them. At the very least, they're overestimating the effect those builds have on gameplay. If it's not getting you more resources, not letting you last longer in endurance runs, not getting you more kills and faster, not letting you afk, any more than is already possible, then what's so significant about it?

Edited April 9, 2020 by schilds

[vegetosayajin]

You didn't read carefully my whole post. I mentioned an algorithm, but for it to work it has to consider not only the build and the weapon/frame but when, why and how they are used to be "broken".This is not only damage numbers and usability stats.
Again look at the rakta dagger nerf.It isn't the strongest melee, the builds didn't matter on it much and I doubt all of a sudden 90% of players started using it.

[schilds]

They don't need a genius algorithm, they need only look for outliers. If your legendary build doesn't produce results much different to normal, then what's so significant about it?

Bringing up the Rakta Dark Dagger nerf just makes me laugh. You know the first thing I thought of when shield gating was introduced? "What stuff restores shields, oh RDD might be interesting". Turned out shield gating is very strong by itself so I never bothered.  It was pretty obvious it would be changed (at some point) to be consistent with how the shield restoring arcanes worked. A youtube video might have bumped it up in priority for DE, but it was hardly some secret.

Edited April 9, 2020 by schilds

[vegetosayajin]

24 minutes ago, schilds said:

A youtube video might have bumped it up in priority for DE, but it was hardly some secret.

That's why I said in my first post they use both.
It isn't something genius to consider. 

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, vegetosayajin said:

Again look at the rakta dagger nerf.It isn't the strongest melee, the builds didn't matter on it much and I doubt all of a sudden 90% of players started using it.

I think it actually saw a "catchmoon" rise and that is the reason it got nerfed. It literally made every frame that has a shield value immortal and gave them the capability of Inaros facetanking+. The video likely had as much impact as an extra drop of water in the ocean, since it was shown on a frame where the choice of the weapon is 100% redundant in order to achieve what you actually wanted when you slapped on RDD. The frame it was shown on already has a built in RDD in his kit in the shape of an augment (which in the video is used in addition to RDD (why???)). The only time where it would be useful on that specific frame would be on a boss, but if you run content where there are constantly adds (like he does) it is completely pointless over bringing a weapon with more dps. The same would go for Mag.

The other reason why I think the video had no impact at all on the decision is because the nerf to RDD changed nothing for that specific frame nor Mag or any other frame that can replenish shields partly or fully through the use of energy. The one that actually took a hit from it was Hildryn since she needs shields to provide shields to herself aswell as all frames that cannot reapply shields with abilities that cost energy. Though with augur mods that kinda becomes a non issue (except for Hildryn) since all you need is 1 single point of shields in order for damage to start regging shields from radiated enemies. So if you have slash procs from RDD going all you need to do is hit a button and be back to 100% in an instant.

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by SneakyErvin

[Aesthier]

On 2020-04-05 at 8:51 AM, Sovyul said:

This many people think DE's primary source of information are e-celebs and not statistics

Too bad they don't use their time to chase meaningful statistics like fixing the larger issues rather nerfing any frame that gets used the most in a two week period.

 

Look a the statistics behind the percentage of players that quit before MR 3.

^That needs a fix far more than Limbo.

[Scorpiokon]

On 2020-04-05 at 4:36 PM, (PS4)drollive96 said:

I know it wont completely stop all the ridiculous nerfs we have been receiving, but it may help minimize it. Every time they make a video showcasing an op build, they should carefully consider that DE can see it and may nerf things based on those videos if they see things they dont like. I'm keeping all my powerful builds secret now unless its in a place where DE has limited access to, such as within my close circle of friends, or my clan. Everyone else should heed this warning, your actions and what you share can have consequences

DE sees only numbers. Showcasing a build means nothing, they already know the combinations because they made them. They only change things if they know an issue with it or a recent changes mess with the balance and needs revisit. They may forgot some of their changes and can accidentaly Nerf things what they made legit if they not document the changes well. 

You cannot hide nothing. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Scorpiokon

[FadeToNull]

12 hours ago, vegetosayajin said:

Witch is easier and faster in your opinion:
1. Watch a 5 min video and know what the "meta" is and what you have to nerf.
2. Go trough 50k+(last I saw a number of consistent players a day) builds, gameplay, uses etc and then go and do the same thing.

3. Ignore the 50k and look at the reports that aggregate the data.

It's 3.

[SyBuhr]

Or, hear me out on this because this is really crazy...

 

Digital Extremes...

Spoiler

Could stop nerfing things that are enjoyable, in order to pad out the grind because they can't make enjoyable enough content. Seriously, that's the only reason they are nerfing the popular/enjoyable things in Warframe. From Rivens, to weapons, to Frames. It's going to take another MASSIVE player drop for them to pull their hands out of their asses and actually be somewhat competent at their job.

 

[Synpai]

Sadly that's not how this works. Due to the nature of the game and rivens, they presumably (and have mentioned to some degree) that they have usage data. To what extent who knows, but I assure you they can punish you for an exploit without a video if it becomes relevant enough (like the defection event).

I know a handful of fellow content creators that have asked [DE] before posting a build how they felt about the balance, they gave the okay, but it was later found to warrant a nerf.

 

Staticor saw the magic of a godly spontaneous buff, then players started using it like wild fire -> nerf

I find it's not a time to riot against us content creators nor DE, I think it wiser to use specificity and comparison to focus your post and discussion on what you want changed/buffed and why you feel some changes are harsh or otherwise.

[uAir]

On 2020-04-05 at 10:19 AM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

There’s only a small handful of Youtubers than overblow how good something is and say it’s OP.

And those people should be ignored. Seriously who tf thinks Nyx is OP.

Before the melee rework, Nyx was definitely OP if you knew how to build and use her.
Literally one of the easiest endurance survivals I've ever done was with Nyx. Only other easier ones were Octavia and Loki for obvious reasons.

I haven't tried with the most recent set of melee changes but I'd wager Nyx could still be quite decent.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

13 minutes ago, uAir said:

Before the melee rework, Nyx was definitely OP if you knew how to build and use her.
Literally one of the easiest endurance survivals I've ever done was with Nyx. Only other easier ones were Octavia and Loki for obvious reasons.

I haven't tried with the most recent set of melee changes but I'd wager Nyx could still be quite decent.

Ok, but outside of a niche thing that other frames can do more efficiently. What was her purpose? She doesn’t exactly interact with the game in an unique or significant way.

[uAir]

On 2020-04-16 at 4:36 AM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Ok, but outside of a niche thing that other frames can do more efficiently. What was her purpose? She doesn’t exactly interact with the game in an unique or significant way.

The same can be said of almost every other frame so you're going to have to have a better argument than that.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

39 minutes ago, uAir said:

The same can be said of almost every other frame so you're going to have to have a better argument than that.

But even if a frame doesn’t have specific uses in specific missions, they’re atleast able to perform in that content. They have the tools and the stats to hold their ground in a mission.

Nyx doesn’t have that. She can’t DPS, she can’t heal, she can’t buff, she can’t tank without becoming a snail, her CC is garbage compared to what frames who don’t even CC as a primary function. She has no excuse to exist outside of fashion frame.