Augment Slot When

[rawr1254]

I know this topic has probably been beaten to death before but I really feel like it needs to exist. Most augments are take em or leave em but every so often one that you almost must have/use with your build comes around(Resonance, Reactive Storm, Chromatic blade, etc.) but those mods take up an entire slot and can really bring down a build making it sometimes pointless to use despite it really making the frame good if you could without taking off adaption, continuity, intensify, etc. So without really knowing if this has been suggested before why not have the said Augment Slot like everyone has wanted and that specific slot can only hold augments at 0 drain costs. augments can still be put in regular slots like normal(with drain) but that slot is augment specific and 0 drain, nothing else.

Now why 0 drain you might ask. Well personally at least most of my builds have 6+ forma and no more space remaining at all. While I may or may not be different than most in that aspect that is how my builds are(min/maxing) So as a way to not just give a free slot regardless of forma used on a frame I feel this slot should be locked behind forma used on the frame itself instead of an exilus adapter-like item. This would give incentive to forma a frame and really perfect it to unlock the ability to use a slot at 0 cost for augments instead of just; Get Frame > Unlock Exilus for 20 plat/farm for formas AND the exilus adapter> still unable to put the build you want together due to an augment being locked behind a drain/slot limit. So this would be a way to feel like you accomplished something with the frame instead of just wasting time on it.

[Uhkretor]

13 minutes ago, rawr1254 said:

Augment Slot When

Never. DE already stated it before.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Uhkretor

[LAD.Y]

i would love to have an augment slot. i see someone said it's never happening but frankly they keep adding useless forma and slots to weapons idk why they can't revise that thought. if they're going to keep coming out with augments, some with decent functionality but none that in most cases truly warrant a slot then *shrug*

[crimsonspartan1]

Augment slots would definitely be a neat idea, although the chances of that ever happening is slim. 
 

It’d allow people to actually make use of augments, including the more mundane ones like that new Grendel mod and allow more modding space for people running builds for the widely used ones like chromatic blade

Edited April 15, 2020 by crimsonspartan1

[rawr1254]

12 minutes ago, LAD.Y said:

i would love to have an augment slot. i see someone said it's never happening but frankly they keep adding useless forma and slots to weapons idk why they can't revise that thought. if they're going to keep coming out with augments, some with decent functionality but none that in most cases truly warrant a slot then *shrug*

 

Yes, universal vacuum was always argued about not having and now we have universal vacuum(albeit only 3m) and actually "vacuum" mods for all companions and not just sentinels.

I mean we even got an exilus slot for what could be considered "usless mods" and that was after Im assuming complaints about all of the mods that go unused.

So despite DE ever saying heck no to something doesnt mean the thought is completely thrown out.

[LAD.Y]

11 minutes ago, crimsonspartan1 said:

Augment slots would definitely be a neat idea, although the chances of that ever happening is slim. 
 

It’d allow people to actually make use of augments though, including the more mundane ones like that new Grendel mod and allow more modding space for people running builds for the widely used ones like chromatic blade

exactly. currently there are very few warframes that i can justify using an augment on. Really the only ones that benefit are utility/cc/support frames because you're not looking to deal massive amounts of damage anyway and thus only have to worry about increasing like 1 or 2 stats with a few mods than everything. if we had a slot it would make it so every frame could utilize them. AND add more playing diversity 

 

13 minutes ago, rawr1254 said:

 

Yes, universal vacuum was always argued about not having and now we have universal vacuum(albeit only 3m) and actually "vacuum" mods for all companions and not just sentinels.

I mean we even got an exilus slot for what could be considered "usless mods" and that was after Im assuming complaints about all of the mods that go unused.

So despite DE ever saying heck no to something doesnt mean the thought is completely thrown out.

agreed. i mean who wants or needs stance forma for melee? like why? we can probably pester abut this to make it happen some day

[schilds]

I use augments on most of my frames. It's your choice not to use them.

 

I agree that there are some augments that will probably never see any use, but that's a matter of balancing those augments so they're worth the opportunity cost of another mod.

Edited April 15, 2020 by schilds

[Tiltskillet]

25 minutes ago, schilds said:

I use augments on most of my frames. It's your choice not to use them.

 

I agree that there are some augments that will probably never see any use, but that's a matter of balancing those augments so they're worth the opportunity cost of another mod.

This.  And it's also a frame balance issue.  Some have a lot more flexibility than others, mainly by virtue of having greater strengths and fewer weaknesses.

Adding slots without addressing the root problems mostly exacerbates those problems.  

[xcrimsonlegendx]

Grendel's new augment is an exilus mod, they should just make all of them exilus compatible.

[Birdframe_Prime]

28 minutes ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

Grendel's new augment is an exilus mod, they should just make all of them exilus compatible.

Not another one...

DE already stated the reason for this. If you want to change every augment to fit in the Exilus, then you would have to change that Augment to follow the rules that dictate what is and isn't an Exilus worthy Augment.

(And before you come back with 'but the Drift mods', stop, this is the explicit rule for Augments, not other mods.)

Rebecca and Pablo did a live stream and addressed this exact point. If an Augment does not change the base ability at all and only adds a function of movement to it, then it is allowed in the Exilus. Any function that changes what the base ability actually does, in terms of range, damage, status, anything, that costs a regular mod slot.

Which is why Mesa's Waltz, which allows movement but does not affect any of the stats of the ability, is an Exilus, but Assimilate, which allows movement but also changes the size and damage absorb mechanics of the ability, is not.

It's why Escape Velocity, which adds movement speed to Warframes when using Warp, is an Exilus, but Infiltrate, which adds movement speed to Ivara but also allows her to bypass damage from laser gates, is not.

Grendel's new augment changes nothing about the base ability, it only provides a movement function. That's why it's an Exilus.

Campaign to get this ruling overturned and you might get somewhere.

Otherwise... not happening.

That said; the real problem we have with Augments is that it's almost exclusively that the base ability is not worth augmenting (either through being a bad ability, or just being worse than one of the other abilities) that makes them not worth a regular mod slot. The Augments are almost universally a straight-up buff to the abilities themselves, but that doesn't make the ability any more desirable compared the to the others in the kit. For example, Mesa's aug for her 1, never used when you could be augmenting her 2, 3 or 4. Because those abilities are all so much better than her 1, and her 1 is a base bad ability that only a completely over-powered Augment would ever save it.

So it's kind of moot anyway, the Abilities need reworks before the Augments are worth using, and the Augments aren't worth using over each other within the same Warframe.

The entire discussion just ends up circling itself, and nothing will ever get done.

Least of all an Augment slot for Warframes, specifically because DE have said that it's 'not even on the table for discussion'.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

14 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

And before you come back with...

I really didn't have a "comeback". It was just a suggestion, I don't read every forum post. In fact I didn't even finish reading yours. No offense but I could tell from the first line being "not another one" that it wasn't going to be a mutually respectful discussion. You assume that I knew that DE had made these statements in the past and chose to judge my opinion on that assumption. So, sorry for not reading the DE encyclopedia of suggestions we shouldn't suggest. I'll make sure next time not to voice my opinion for fear of being lambasted by people that do know.

Edited April 15, 2020 by xcrimsonlegendx

[DrivaMain]

Even just 1 SLOT won’t add any huge power creep, in fact it will incentivize people to use unpopular augments because they don’t sacrifice too much. Heck you can even lock the slot with a special item that cost plat for another plat sink or restrict early access.

There is also capacity cost that’s at play here. My Chroma build can’t barely fit any mod (2 capacity remaining) so even with an augment slot I have to degrade my mods to be able to equip augments in the slot.

Edited April 15, 2020 by DrivaMain

[rawr1254]

2 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Even just 1 SLOT won’t add any huge power creep, in fact it will incentivize people to use unpopular augments because they don’t sacrifice too much. Heck you can even lock the slot with a special item that cost plat for another plat sink or restrict early access.

Yes, I mean I cant think of a single augment that if you put it on it breaks the game. Every augment tends to be nicknamed "band-aid" mod for a reason. They aren't overpowered and they arent underpowered, for the most part. 

[TheLexiConArtist]

There's already not enough capacity to fit things into the Exilus slot without over-polarising yourself into an inflexible build, how the hell are you going to stuff an augment slot onto all that?

I mean, at least that one is safer to polarise to a single certain polarity - wait, you could potentially want to use it for those 'no-passive' mods to clear up your Exilus spot, never mind, back to square one.

[rawr1254]

1 hour ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

There's already not enough capacity to fit things into the Exilus slot without over-polarising yourself into an inflexible build, how the hell are you going to stuff an augment slot onto all that?

I mean, at least that one is safer to polarise to a single certain polarity - wait, you could potentially want to use it for those 'no-passive' mods to clear up your Exilus spot, never mind, back to square one.

 

6 hours ago, rawr1254 said:

I know this topic has probably been beaten to death before but I really feel like it needs to exist. Most augments are take em or leave em but every so often one that you almost must have/use with your build comes around(Resonance, Reactive Storm, Chromatic blade, etc.) but those mods take up an entire slot and can really bring down a build making it sometimes pointless to use despite it really making the frame good if you could without taking off adaption, continuity, intensify, etc. So without really knowing if this has been suggested before why not have the said Augment Slot like everyone has wanted and that specific slot can only hold augments at 0 drain costs. augments can still be put in regular slots like normal(with drain) but that slot is augment specific and 0 drain, nothing else.

Now why 0 drain you might ask. Well personally at least most of my builds have 6+ forma and no more space remaining at all. While I may or may not be different than most in that aspect that is how my builds are(min/maxing) So as a way to not just give a free slot regardless of forma used on a frame I feel this slot should be locked behind forma used on the frame itself instead of an exilus adapter-like item. This would give incentive to forma a frame and really perfect it to unlock the ability to use a slot at 0 cost for augments instead of just; Get Frame > Unlock Exilus for 20 plat/farm for formas AND the exilus adapter> still unable to put the build you want together due to an augment being locked behind a drain/slot limit. So this would be a way to feel like you accomplished something with the frame instead of just wasting time on it.

 

[TheLexiConArtist]

1 minute ago, rawr1254 said:

 

 

I skipped over the text block one time and miss something relevant to what I'm going to say. Trust my luck.

At that point you might as well just make augments free in general, though, and some of them are actually huge power improvements that can't really be treated that way. Some sidegrades or utilities, sure, but take something like Razorwing Blitz, for example. The only 'loss' by making it a special nil-drain slot is if you want to equip two augments, but that'd be more likely to see people just toss in the best value augment and ditch the rest with the freedom to capitalise a full build on that best value one, in most cases, except a couple where they directly stack multipliers.

By extension to that, a lot of augments would then be better served baked into the kit. 

 

Which might not be a bad thing either, but we really don't need more convoluted special-case things that will inevitable tangle up the spaghetti with which the game is built.

[SenorClipClop]

Just say no to powercreep.

8 hours ago, rawr1254 said:

one that you almost must have/use with your build comes around(Resonance, Reactive Storm, Chromatic blade, etc.) but those mods take up an entire slot and can really bring down a build

If you must have them, they are worth the slot. If they aren't, they're probably filling a niche that you don't play around with and are worth it to someone else. If they aren't worth it to (virtually)  anyone, then the augment itself is too weak and needs better stats or additional features.

[Unibot]

Considering many of augments should be base functionality I want it.
Considering many of augments are just not worth mod capacity - I don't care if it will ever exist.
Considering DE have a habbit to twist good concepts into disgusting abominations - I don't even want this to be implemented by DE.

[Birdframe_Prime]

8 hours ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

You assume that I knew that DE had made these statements in the past and chose to judge my opinion on that assumption.

No, I assume that somebody interested in the topic would at least have common courtesy.

I replied with the explanation for the decision, to fill you in, knowing you were only suggesting it because you hadn't read the 'encyclopedia'. That was why I said 'not another one'. Not another one who only cares about a topic if they see a random thread pop up and don't take any kind of time to consider 'Hey, maybe in the four years since Augments were suggested, could this topic have come up before? Could there not be an answer already?'

But, if you're the kind of person who won't even finish comments, then I won't give you any more of my ti

[Sasuda]

I can see this being added in as a quest reward, like how the Umbral mods get unlocked and in that scenario I think it'd be neat. Otherwise though augments are too much of a mess to just toss in for powercreep problems.
I also am fine with them having a mod slot cost. I think the forma system in general has flaws that contribute to the mod capacity problems. I don't care if it takes a lot of forma to add all the mods I'd like, I just don't do it for the sake of flexibility. So I end up having non-maxed versions of as many mods as I can. Still my builds get locked down a lot, So I'd prefer to see a way to have multiple polarizations on slots. With that change alone I'd be happier not needing another extra slot for augments.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Sasuda
fomatting

[DrivaMain]

1 hour ago, Unibot said:

Considering DE have a habbit to twist good concepts into disgusting abominations - I don't even want this to be implemented by DE.

Then who is gonna implement if it’s not the developers itself (DE) who has access to the game assets and implementation? 

 

5 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

If they aren't worth it to (virtually)  anyone, then the augment itself is too weak and needs better stats or additional features.

That’s the problem, DE is very slow on rebalancing stuff (we’re taking years here). Adding augment slots(s) would give unpopular augments have a chance to shine without having to getting reviewed by DE’s slow process. Let augments be an actual augment. An upgrade to an ability instead of a sidegrade. 

[ShortCat]

There is no slot problem; there is an ability/augments problem. If an ability is bad without an augment, it should be revisited; if an augment is not worth using, it should be revisited.

15 hours ago, rawr1254 said:

...but those mods take up an entire slot and can really bring down a build making it sometimes pointless to use despite it really making the frame good...

Could not disagree more. There are augments, including those you already mentioned, which function as a piller for a whole build. Implying those augments are not worth the slot over little more power or duration is incredibly dishonest or ignorant.

11 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Even just 1 SLOT won’t add any huge power creep, in fact it will incentivize people to use unpopular augments because they don’t sacrifice too much.

Disagree. I use augments in 90% of my builds and this change would result in a noticable power boost in my case. Furthermroe, a dedicated augment slot will not make unappreciated augments more competitive. Exilus slot was born from this dumb idea and it did not help Warm Coat or Heavy Impact. This is written history. Creating a special slot with a limited mod pool does absolutely nothing for unappreciated mods/augments, if those are not balanced against others within the same pool. This is the reason I say - there is no slot problem, there is a mod problem.

Free dedicated ability slots would make sense, if augments would alter the whole ability without an obvious power/functionality boost and serve as a way to customize skills themselves according to player preference. Here an example: Nova's Wurm Hole augment would let her create only 2 portals, one entrance and one exit. This augment changes the base functionality without an obvious boost, there are simply situation when the one is more usefull then the other. Or it comes down to player preference.
On the other hand, current Escape Velocity augment is a plain functionality boost for the base ability.

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Then who is gonna implement if it’s not the developers itself (DE) who has access to the game assets and implementation? 

I think you mis-understood the phrasing of this comment.

They don't want it implemented, at all, because DE so often screws up these concepts by trying to limit them in some other way.

2 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Let augments be an actual augment. An upgrade to an ability instead of a sidegrade.

To be clear, I could give you a full list of Augments with descriptions of what they do to prove this, but trust me for now.

Aside from the ones that are Exilus mods (and even those are arguably under this category) there are only a few Augments that are side-grades, while every other one in the game is a direct upgrade.

The problem with them is not that they aren't upgrades, it's that they're upgrades to just the specific ability. If the ability doesn't work with the kit right, or if the upgrade does not make the ability worth it, then there is no point in upgrading that ability.

For example, take the Augment for Mesa's 1. It adds Status Chance to the shot based on your charge. This is a direct buff. The problem? Nobody uses her 1 outside of meme builds for 1-shotting Sortie bosses with a fishing spear. Because the ability is not a good ability. And buffing that ability, because of how it functions, doesn't do anything at all for the Warframe overall.

Trinity's augment for her 1, it produces Health Orbs when you kill the target. What this does is directly buff the healing because if an ally was not in range, or was not benefiting from the base healing of the ability (damaging it to have life-steal), then there will be 4 orbs on the ground for a base of 100 Health to each ally that comes to pick them up. On top of this there are Mods and Arcanes that interact with Health Orbs, picking them up will grant things like Armour or pulses of bonus Health. The problem with this? Since Blessing exists, Trinity's 1 is useless and slow, and everyone should be at full health anyway so picking up Orbs isn't even viable. The buff is useless because of how Trinity's other kit so vastly out-shines her 1, and it doesn't buff the ability in a meaningful way.

The augments that take base useless abilities and make them fully over-powered, though, are considered viable. Like the ones for Banshee and Ash' 1, giving them access to total armour strip was incredibly viable until this year where enemy armour dropped off and stopped being a problem anymore.

If the ability is bad, it doesn't matter how much the Augment is buffing it. It is de-facto a useless Augment.

Meanwhile you take an Augment like Snow Globe's Chilling Globe, and you have the lynchpin of Frost's kit getting buffed. So of course it's going to be used, of course it's going to seem like a 'mandatory' upgrade to the ability.

If the ability is good, it doesn't matter how much the Augment is buffing it. It is de-facto a useful Augment.

Those side-grades we're talking about? There's Octavia's Split Mallet, Zephyr's Funnel Clouds, Atlas' Tectonic Fracture... You lose a function of the ability and gain another. I can't think of many others. Somebody will add something to the list.

There are some very few Augments that actually do not upgrade the ability in question, and instead make the Warframe function better overall, and those are exactly what we need more of in Warframe.

The example here is Nova's Molecular Fission. This ability synergises her kit. You gain Damage Reduction by having her 1 active, but her 1 auto-depletes when in range of an enemy. The Augment to her 4 restores her 1 for doing exactly what you do with Nova anyway; killing things that are primed by M-Prime. So you can top back up to your modded capacity of Null Star, to maintain your Damage Reduction, just by killing enemies that are primed. You can even do it at close range because killing an enemy restores 2 Null Star orbs, and getting in close to melee them will usually expend at least one or two. 

That is the kind of Augment that is a buff to the Warframe, not a buff to the single ability.

And that's what we need to consider before we even start talking about things like Slots.

[rawr1254]

9 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

 

 

2 hours ago, ShortCat said:

 

Ok...lets say for instance you put EVERY augment a frame has on. Does it make the frame OP? No because they'd show up here in the complaint section, and you can do that as we speak. So what is wrong with one, ONE slot for a single augment? These Augments arent mesas Peacemaker, they arent Saryns Spores, they arent Equinox's Maim, they're just augments. I mean if you can name one augment where if it was given a free slot it'd be OP and need to be nerfed Ill back off the idea completely. I mean these are band aid mods and clearly arent going to be looked at seriously any time soon so instead of shoving the problem in a corner for another 4+ years like we did  armor scaling how about just a slot for the augment like has been ask for for 4+ years afaik.

Edit: And armor striping 2 enemies at a time and a free pulse from banshee every couple seconds isnt OP. OP would be a frame becoming what frame is considered OP as of right now: Mesa, Saryn, Equinox, heck even Wisp

Edited April 16, 2020 by rawr1254

[Gr33hn]

I feel I should voice my support of the idea. DE should add an augment slot, however I think it should be a drain on the capacity and let that be the balancing factor.