Dev Workshop: Railjack Revisited Information

[(XBOX)TapelessDawn]

hace 34 minutos, (XB1)toughdragon17 dijo:

For the revised they sead it would be easyer to get salvige and special things for end game rewards but all iv seen is the same amount of salvige and nothing new for end mission rewards 

The only thing thats new it seems is the RNG has been increased by a good amount and railjack is still a masive grind island and they still havent removed relics so there can be more chanses for other things i mean you can get relics in multiple other ways railjack dosent need relics 

 

Dude, it's a looter shooter. Also check your grammar I think you mispelled every single verb in your text

[SpicyDinosaur]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)TapelessDawn said:

Also check your grammar I think you mispelled every single verb in your text

Good thing you were here to point the entirely irrelevant information out. 

[AQDY]

hace 1 hora, Vit0Corleone dijo:

Particle Ram has no variations, so no changes there.

Just to be clear, no one is supposed to lose any avionics. They just get merged into a single house.

Say.. you have 10x Lavan Bulkhead, 5 Vidar Bulkhead, 2 Zekti Bulkhead.

You will end up with 10+5+2=17 "Bulkhead" all with the same stats (maxed to match the old best House version ).

Again, this assuming they will move forward with the proposed changes.

Are we really sure this is how it's going to be implemented? Because way I read it, in your example I'd be left with either 10, 5 or 2 "Bulkhead" (depending on which house is kept, and which are retired). Not the whole 17 lot of 'em under the same consolidated house. 

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

51 minutes ago, (XB1)TapelessDawn said:

Dude, it's a looter shooter. Also check your grammar I think you mispelled every single verb in your text

Im just stating they sead it would be easyer to get salvige and end of mission reward would hace buffs  to them but it dosent seem like any of that is true it actualy seems like they made rng more intense and harder to get everything espesialy salvige  also they realy dont need relics in railjack there are multiple other ways to get them 

 

 

And for my gramer and spelling errors its very simple i have a spelling disorder as well as dislexia if i dont focus on my spelling it isnt that good i usualy have auto corect to help a little but i dont have it on this website 

[(PSN)Qjing]

And for solo players NPC you give orders.

Small selectable short commandos,
1. Build ammunition 2. Build Revolite
3. Repair everything 4. Occupy the gunner

NPC  act sensibly control weapon, build revolte, repair

[Malak-al-Maut]

I think we all know that what DE is aiming for is the Millennium Falcon fighter scenes with the gun turrets maned from A New Hope or The Force Awakens.  To that end I wanted to go over some fixes that I didn't see in the revised notes.

1. The Drift Maneuver always launches you forward, regardless of the direction you are currently travelling in.  This should be changed so that you boost in the direction traveled.

2. Foot solders in Railjack work off a different scaling system from normal mission enemies.  DE is based in Canada.  Do you enjoy converting back and forth from miles (imperial) to kilometres (metric)?  No?  Neither do I, and it's not fun to do in a game.

3.  There is ONE and only ONE loadout meta for Railjack.  If you have the meta loadout then missions take about 10-15 minutes.  Otherwise they take 30-45 minutes or more.  Why would I join a squad that doesn't have the meta equipped?

4.  There are REQUIRED avionics such as Bulkhead and Hull Weave.  Why not make these an integral part of the ship that we can level up rather than avionics?  I realize it's similar to the mod system we have for warframes (and I think you should change that also) but unless there is some sort of trade off like for example, more armor equals more mass which means you don't accelerate as quickly and are less maneuverable, then there's no point.  Make it a part of the ship that we can level up rather than taking up a slot.

5.  Integration with the rest of the game.  It doesn't, it's just like nobody paid attention to archwings until we could summon them in regular missions.  Until you pull railjacks into regular missions you won't be "lifting the whole."

6.  It's time for DE to put up some money and get some dedicated servers going for true open world cooperative play areas rather than just 4-person squads.  

[Damocles]

Combining the houses are a bad idea.
Hullweave Zetki costs 13 for 90% damage reduction, while Vidar costs 8 for 89%. 1% damage reduction is not worth 5 reactor capacity to me

Polar coil Zetki costs 11 for 66%, while Lavan costs 6 for 56. 10% heat capacity is not worth another 5 capacity for me

Hyperflux Zetki costs 17 for 99%, but Vidar costs 8 and gives 56%. The amount per cost is more economic than with Zetki

In my opinion. We should keep the houses the way they are, because from Brozime's stream, turning everything into Zetki is just DE making their own meta. That is nerfing what we prefer, and then DE shoving what they want us to do instead down our throats. 

[(XBOX)TapelessDawn]

hace 1 hora, SpicyDinosaur dijo:

Good thing you were here to point the entirely irrelevant information out. 

You're welcome

[(XBOX)TapelessDawn]

hace 1 hora, (XB1)toughdragon17 dijo:

Im just stating they sead it would be easyer to get salvige and end of mission reward would hace buffs  to them but it dosent seem like any of that is true it actualy seems like they made rng more intense and harder to get everything espesialy salvige  also they realy dont need relics in railjack there are multiple other ways to get them 

 

 

And for my gramer and spelling errors its very simple i have a spelling disorder as well as dislexia if i dont focus on my spelling it isnt that good i usualy have auto corect to help a little but i dont have it on this website 

Ok, well that explains the grammar. Still the rng is kind of a good thing, in fact they are decreasing it by eliminating variants of mods.

If the reactor is the only real rng valuable object one requieres. I won't complain.

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

20 minutes ago, (XB1)TapelessDawn said:

Ok, well that explains the grammar. Still the rng is kind of a good thing, in fact they are decreasing it by eliminating variants of mods.

If the reactor is the only real rng valuable object one requieres. I won't complain.

Actualy im more woried about the RNG for reactors than anything else becouse with the new changes in avionics your going to need a realy good reactor to be able to use most of them and from what iv seen in the pts its even grindyer now to get good salvige like reactors  

[Kmykzy]

Pretty nice all-a-round changes, (besides the number of game-breaking bugs) I for one was one of the players that actually enjoyed railjack when it released and found it a nice change of pacing from normal mission combat.

Most recommended things by people that talk about railjack seem too be that it takes too long to kill things, or enemies do too much dmg (regarding archwing it kind of was bullS#&$ that any maxed out build would get constantly one-shot in the veil, if you were using anything else than amesha, with almost no way to counter that), but in all honesty it felt that it was how things should have been... like you have 2 gunner seats that aren't used 99% of the time but complain that archwing does too little dmg to ships?... people complaining about resources but don't want to take the time to explore and gather them at the end of the missions?...

It just feels like the people complaining about these things don't actually want to play that mode in the first place and feel that for some reason they need to keep playing it. Yes there are some things that aren't right with it like the UI stuff, fezzes, connection issues, archwing not really being integrated into the mode and not ready for railjack space combat, crew ships doing stupid amounts of unpreventable dmg to the railjack and everything else,etc. BUT the game loop, the mission, the island that is railjack isn't wrong.

So things like *buffing archgun dmg too much would make the gunners and gunner seats obsolete, *reducing the number of things engineering has to do would make that branch more of a stat-stick than something people could actually consider doing, etc. are a detriment here because these suggestions come from people that don't want to play the mode and just want its rewards easier and faster.

As for my suggestions:
1.

Spoiler

 

make all railjack resources tradable at a drydock trade console like you did with lich trading (most people call it a content island anyway so it wouldn't affect the rest of the game)

-this would make the endgame people that don't want to play the mode stop complaining about it while still being able to get their desired rewards and upgrades for future content and also get that sweet MR∞ and badge,

-and it would help out the ones that are just starting out get some extra plat for those basic warframe/weapon slots just by being able to do the basic farming for resources to sell

-regarding armaments and components 30 inventory limit, I think base 10% bonuses should be enough variation for us, we don't need a 46.98% bonus fire rate drop, just make them 10% 20% 30% etc., decrease the load on your databases => increase the inventory capacity and let us trade them (maybe along with the resources as suggested just above)

 

2.

Spoiler

 

better UI visibility

- the basic available crafting resources should be visible to everyone in the tactical menu so that people will know when they need to make a run for those without being asked every time by the guy taking care of the forging while everything is burning (mostly for the early game of railjack, because after 15-20 railjack missions you do them way faster and your railjack payload is large enough so you don't need anymore resources pickups during said faster missions)

-there should be an indicator to where the boarding shuttles will hit and enter the railjack, maybe turned into an intrinsic or something inate, I think the fact that players have 0 time to prepare makes the railjack tile combat a bit chaotic and disorientating

-the number and location of boarders should be seen and known on the tactical menu and warframe UI regardless of warframe's moded enemy radar range (i get it not showing up on planets and in missions but this is literally your own ship your fighting on and enemy invaders aren't really as stealthy as tenno in spy missions)

 

3.

Spoiler

 

Forge interaction

-the forge interaction seems out of place, interacting animation is very long, console visibility is a little bad and the distance between the consoles a bit too big.

I don't think it should be removed or replaced outright by one single console, but, maybe adding more of them, reducing the yields and increasing the intrinsic gains for use, reducing animations, reducing the distance between them, adding some other things there, like boosts for the railjack/archwings/mission would make it more fulfilling to use them

Spoiler

1.if the ship doesn't get damaged (happens sometimes in mid-game railjack and most of the time in late-game railjack)=> forge becomes unused 

2.if no Ordnance are used/nobody has Rank 3 Engineering no need for Munitions=> forge becomes unused

3. if ship has none or very situational battle avionics/ if nobody even uses flux/ if nobody has Rank 2 Engineering=> forge becomes unused

4. if nobody has Rank 5 Gunnery/if nobody has Rank 5 Engineering/ if nobody even uses Dome Charge=> forge becomes unused

5.you can fill up on everything inside the drydock before the mission starts

6. you start every mission with 0 of all crafting resources 

and 7. most people I've seen lately even skip the end of the mission Refinement because after 15-20 missions you end up with a lot of unused surplus of those resources anyway and for those with 40-50+ mission its just a waste of time, lvl9 intrinsic- Surplus Yield- Increase Refinement yields by 10% btw 😐 , and this happened before the resources changes have been implemented

So the forge gets little to no use in most missions and in many it doesn't even get to see use at all

-I would suggest lowering the amount of prefabricated things you can start the mission with (eg. you can only have 30% of the max capacity prefabricated in the drydock and you always start with 10-20% forge resources added fully from the host or cumulatively from every player that joins the squad if they have those resources to spare when joining)

this would make investing in earlier on Engineering actually be worth something besides going for the lvl10 intrinsic to create the pseudosolo-build

 

4.

Spoiler

 

Gunnery seems mostly to be in a good place to me for now

-except for the fact that other people can shoot your launched avionics thus canceling/ending their effect before they fulfill the purpose (eg. you shoot out tether, it grabs 1-2/9 ships, and before it can control the rest one gunner intended/unintended shoots it out ending it instantly)

-would suggest adding a stationary turret control too for when there are no targets to shoot (eg. just like using warframe powers from the tactical menu, drop a turret like thing to assist/protect tennos doing objectives/ have a few stationary turrets on the inside of the railjack walls to help deal with boarders, these could do a lot of damage but would be stationary and would need to be remotely controlled by gunners from their gunner seats)

 

5.

Spoiler

 

This one is probably the hardest/most complicated one

-make gaining intrinsics be action related (eg. I kill enemy ships as the pilot, i can get intrinsics for Engineering? or Tactical?, or I've only gained intrinsics from stealth killing enemy troops and never touched pilot seat but I can get max lvl 10 piloting?, seems a bit weird, doesn't it?)

I get that it's how things have been done in warframe for a long time (you don't have to actually shoot one shot with a weapon but you can get mastery rank 30 on it with 100 forma by getting teammate affinity) but railjack is something new and it doesn't need to be built on that wobbly/weaker foundation that is the affinity sistem (no dis' intended to affinity, its gotten us a long way but we have to agree that its mechanics don't scale up well when adding so many different things now), this is probably one of the main reasons ivara stealth intrinsics semi-abuse could be created in the first place 1-2 weeks afte new content had been added.

 

I was a big fan of FTL, could see the inspiration, and enjoyed Railjack even with the less polished things it came with so I really hope this (and future) revisit does the intended vision justice. Thanks for your hard work devs, and stay safe!

[(XBOX)TapelessDawn]

hace 1 hora, (XB1)toughdragon17 dijo:

Actualy im more woried about the RNG for reactors than anything else becouse with the new changes in avionics your going to need a realy good reactor to be able to use most of them and from what iv seen in the pts its even grindyer now to get good salvige like reactors  

I wouldn't worry, almost all partners have expressed the fact that the capacity a reactor has should be increased or the avionics should take less space.

[Badger]

The avionics change is horrible. Allows for little to no customization with give/take. Avionics also cost too much. With a maxed vidar reactor, I should be able to fill my grid, but can't even come close.

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

34 minutes ago, (XB1)TapelessDawn said:

I wouldn't worry, almost all partners have expressed the fact that the capacity a reactor has should be increased or the avionics should take less space.

One idea i had a while back was the powers or the battle avionocs shouldent use up capacity kinda like a warframes powers dont use up any capacity (well they use to when powers were actualy moduler) 

 

But moving on from that both those ideas sound good id like to see one of them implemented later on in railjacks future 

[-AncientWarrior-]

Well it seems to be the main issues will be avionics and booster which is going to determine the success or failure of DE's latest "Revise".  I for one spent a huge amount of time farming for avionics and RJ components, I spent an equal amount of time figuring out how it works and researching whats best for different situations.  My loadout, since we only have one, for SS space is different to my loadout for Veil Proxima.  I use booster more than anything else in SS space but still use it a whole lot in Veil.  I have been in "paper ships" with no boosters or top speed and it take forever to get anywhere! .. booorrring!!  damn its terrible.. and after 45 minutes we get the possiblity of 1 decent item reward.. hmmm why would I do this again.. no thanks.. leave the boosters alone DE it actually makes the game playable.  As far as the one house per avionic type, well I thought DE didnt want "only one way to play" I though DE wanted to create a multitude of ways to play the game.. I guess what DE said in all the changes previously to make it more diverse was "misunderstood"..  I hope DE actually look AND LISTEN to what the 2 day testers say .. and just fix whats broken and not change the whole damn thing.. and then fix it again and again and again ..

[Prince_El-Ahrairah]

4 minutes ago, -AncientWarrior- said:

Well it seems to be the main issues will be avionics and booster which is going to determine the success or failure of DE's latest "Revise".  I for one spent a huge amount of time farming for avionics and RJ components, I spent an equal amount of time figuring out how it works and researching whats best for different situations.  My loadout, since we only have one, for SS space is different to my loadout for Veil Proxima.  I use booster more than anything else in SS space but still use it a whole lot in Veil.  I have been in "paper ships" with no boosters or top speed and it take forever to get anywhere! .. booorrring!!  damn its terrible.. and after 45 minutes we get the possiblity of 1 decent item reward.. hmmm why would I do this again.. no thanks.. leave the boosters alone DE it actually makes the game playable.  As far as the one house per avionic type, well I thought DE didnt want "only one way to play" I though DE wanted to create a multitude of ways to play the game.. I guess what DE said in all the changes previously to make it more diverse was "misunderstood"..  I hope DE actually look AND LISTEN to what the 2 day testers say .. and just fix whats broken and not change the whole damn thing.. and then fix it again and again and again ..

The entirety of Railjack in its current live state is broken, though. It's a complete mess. Playable, but that does not mean it's not broken.

[SpicyDinosaur]

Only two days of testing seems... way too short. Like how much feedback and input can one glean out of two days. That's almost no time to sort out bugs and other things like that, along with getting the feel for the changes.

[(XBOX)TapelessDawn]

hace 16 minutos, SpicyDinosaur dijo:

Only two days of testing seems... way too short. Like how much feedback and input can one glean out of two days. That's almost no time to sort out bugs and other things like that, along with getting the feel for the changes.

You're new to this right? These are first impressions. Although we can reinforce our opinions because the changes can be compared, read with exact numbers and we can have a taste of it while testing it.

[KitMeHarder]

Spoiler

On 2020-04-25 at 12:12 AM, KitMeHarder said:

The majority of these changes are positive, and some of them are very positive. But as with most things in life, I am here to point out the changes I don't like.

• Reduced Boost Effectiveness - We'll see how this goes with the increased base speed, but I'm not optimistic. 
• No mention of an "organic" way to gain flux energy- AKA no way to regen flux energy from doing in-mission actions, only by building it.
• Battle Avionics - Particle Ram is worded very oddly, so it has me really concerned. And a meaningless nerf to Void Hole in my opinion, especially when you compare it to its Warframe ability counterpart. And there ends up being many reasons why this Avionic does not warrant an over 50% nerf to its duration.
• Archwing Melee Stat Refresh - Fine I guess. But you just went from the Centaur is the only one worth using, to the Prisma Veritux is the only one worth using.

And unless I misheard, Scott seems to have said opposing things about how intense Railjack combat will be. Hopefully "more intense and demigod-esque similar to the base game" is the intended change.

 

Why does it feel like every positive thing you all give to us nowadays is followed up with a backhand? I am sorry if this was a mistake, or if this was something you just wanted to tryout and you were almost certain you would revert it, but I am very passionate about this.

Why in the world would you remove the ability for us to shoot into Munition Vortex? If this change goes through I will not play this game mode, and it will be more dead than ever before.

• Archwing Gun stats normalized - space combat now uses ground “Heavy Weapon” stats.
  • Great change (disregarding the undocumented nerfs to the Ayanga's and Larkspur's magazine when RJ first launched), but then you need to buff the Velocitus' magazine size to like 25+.
• The Kuva Lich ‘Valence Transfer’ has been added for built Armaments and Components - players can now Transfer progress and stats to the new better parts, boosting them.
  • A near worthless change, as I have to fully build both weapons to fuse them. To put it into perspective I've only made like 4 out of the 15 weapons, 3 of the 9 components, and no the increased drop rate for Titanium/Asterite do nothing to remedy this slap in the face. And it completely makes the progress from MK1 weapons to MK2 weapons worthless.
• Each Integrated Avionic Type will now only exist with a single Manufacturer rather than three Manufacturer flavors.The remaining Integrated Avionic for each Type will take on the values of the previously highest valued Avionic of it’s Type.
  • Great, but you need to address the limited capacity of 130 we have. Being unable to fill all 15 avionic slots as a player with the maximum amount of investment will be unacceptable after this revision goes live.
• Particle Ram
  • A needless nerf to this avionic. It's only worth a damn it if it's always passive, and with the nerf it seems even backwards to sideways momentum won't active it. If avionic capacity has the same horrible economy it does now on release, you can be sure this slot just won't have an ability in it. And that's what you want right in a game like Warframe? Where passive basic as hell stats are worth more than the unique abilities that define what makes something enjoyable to play.
• Void Hole
  • Nothing has changed from my previous post. Still a stupid and pointless nerf. Just look at the community and their opinion on Vauban. He has a stronger version in Vortex, yet he is considered an objectively "meh" frame.
• The fact that the only way you can get flux energy is by building it still boggles me.

[SpicyDinosaur]

33 minutes ago, (XB1)TapelessDawn said:

You're new to this right? These are first impressions. Although we can reinforce our opinions because the changes can be compared, read with exact numbers and we can have a taste of it while testing it.

This is ironic because I worked volunteer for a game company at one point. Point that finger back at yourself. Two days of testing will reveal very little. And considering DE tends to make sweeping changes then forget about the issue for a few years, I would definitely like to make sure those "first impressions" are as detailed and accurate as possible.

[(PSN)Adometro]

This seems like too many changes toward easy.  A geared railjack currently wrecks all railjack content without challenge.  

 

I agree with making archwings useful, I agree with increased intrinsic xp and titanium drops.  Some weapon adjustments sure. 

 

But why are you halving their life after making everything stronger and easier to get?

[844448]

To @[DE]Rebecca,

I strongly disagree with the avionic changes since it makes the system feel special and there are many choices for your railjack build, creating diversity

- You want a railjack full with zetki avionics but leaving combat and tactical avionics empty, relying on the crew's combat skill? You have it

- You want a fragile speed demon with all lavan avionics installed and fully upgraded combat and tactical avionics, allowing you to fix your railjack from the pilot seat while doing run and gun with your railjack? There you go

- You want to have a balanced build between vidar and zetki? Making your railjack an all-rounder? Consider it done

Honestly, the houses make you have a wide spectrum of builds to decide. Do you want a railjack on full steroid, but relies on the crew skill in combat or do you prefer to sacrifice some defensive or offensive capability with railjack abilities to have an advantage over the enemies? You have much to choose

Another part that I disagree is limiting the number of active hazard, you don't see a ship unable to get another tear on her hull once she got one, same with another hazard types and that would make people ignore them until the last second since you only have 1 of each type and I don't think making them more harmful will make people act faster to fix them

I hope these can be put into consideration.

Regards,

One of your registered player

[tipsy_princess]

50 минут назад, (XB1)TapelessDawn сказал:

You're new to this right? These are first impressions. Although we can reinforce our opinions because the changes can be compared, read with exact numbers and we can have a taste of it while testing it.

ye but the problem most people in pts including partners are complete newbie about railjack, so they have nothing to actually compare with.
for those who completed gp hundreds times and have maxed all to level 10 few months ago those couple of days not even required since changes are drastic and barely fixing actual rj problems even on paper.

[Nichivo]

The two things that will kill Railjack for me, will be the movement changes, and the avionics changes.

I could get behind more base speed, and a slower drain to boost, anything else will just make  the enjoyable movement system less enjoyable.

The avionics change will completely kill many builds, and force everyone to run Vidar reactors. Boring! My current build breaks the meta and runs a Zetki reactor, and there will just be no way to do that after the change, because there will be no acceptable trade offs in avionics that make it possible. All that change will do is turn my nimble stealth  Warbird into a boring copy of every other build made by those that can't see the value in an under ranked mod.

[(PSN)demishock]

There are three Railjack QoL changes that I would love to see, which aren't addressed on this list:

-Make the boost meter start refilling automatically when it runs out instead of having to trigger it manually.

-Automatically refine forge resources when returning to a dojo/flotilla (aka when triggering an End Mission screen).

-Add a timer to indicate anomaly time remaining (in regular Veil missions).

These small changes would go a long way toward making the mode play more smoothly, IMO.