Dev Workshop: Railjack Revisited Information

[Fluffysbeans]

Unless I missed something, we're still in desperate need for a way to choose whose railjack is used in missions. Very frequently, the person with the best hosting ability isn't the one with the best ship, and vice versa. 

Otherwise, a lot of these changes seem to be good steps toward less grind and more fun.

[Oggyswe]

all this looks great but im worried about the avoinics since it said it will remove the kinds that wont be around. but are you going to look in to the drop table at the same time? so for example hyperstrike if zetki is kept isent super rare?

[Myscho]

Welp, Avionics should be this simple from start. Dunno which person idea was having same mod with 3 different stats

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

While you're looking at avionics, avionics should be boosting the stats based on our components, not the BASE stats of the RJ.  Maxed Lavan Conic Nozzle only gives you 16m/s regardless of what type of engine you have on, which is total BS.  Components are not mods, they're the ship itself.  A new engine is a new engine in the RJ and should be boosted by the avionics we slot in, rather than the avionics boosting the base engine that isn't even installed anymore.

For everyone thinking that they're deleting all your avionics if they aren't the strongest one, the way I read it is that all avionics of one type will be converted to the same brand.  The question I want answered is what they're doing about drain cost, because some of those avionics have a higher drain cost for the same-ish level effect.  For example:  Hull Weave.  The "best" version is zekti house, and UNRANKED it has a cost of 6 and bonus armor of 23%.  Vidar with the same drain cost of six will be rank 2 and give 81% bonus armor.  Nearly a difference of 60% bonus armor with the same drain.  Avionics capacity and cost needs to be addressed if you're consolidating the mods.

As for speed adjustments, I'd really like clarity on what 75% reduction in boost speed means.  I ran the math with a few different assumptions on what it means and every number I came up with ends up being an actual buff to top end boost speed because of the buff to base.  I'm really having a hard time believing that you're actually buffing something without taking an axe to something else, and I know that's harsh, but that's the reality I feel the game is in right now.

[DarkOvion]

11 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Avionics Changes: 

When it comes to Avionics changes, there’s an overarching goal: Simplify Avionic management. 

• Each Integrated Avionic Type will now only exist with a single Manufacturer rather than three Manufacturer flavors.

OK, but why

It wasn't complex anyway.

It also gave variety and options.

It also allowed you to use cheaper avionics and make use of the limited capacity we get.

We already can't use everything we'd like, even with the 100% best reactor you can get.

Which means you have to use the slightly not as good version that's cheaper.

That's not only cheaper, but is cheaper that the unranked 'top' version.

This removes choice, removes options, removes versatility and dumbs down an already painfully simple system.

[Graavarg]

A few general comments...

The strength of Railjack (as a concept) lies in underlining co-op play. In addition it brings a lot of potential regarding game design, but that is another topic.

The possibilities/challenges in Railjack space fighting should (heavily) reflect the co-op angle, a "good" team should (clearly) be able to achieve more than a "bad" team. Om other words, co-op play should empower Railjack mission play, and Railjack design and mission design should reward co-op play.

But a large (even huge) part of the "Tenno-base" either dislikes co-op play (or prefer solo), have technical problems doing co-op or lack reliable friends/clan members. So "solo Railjack" also has to be a possibility, even "a thing". This includes possible future lich/specter-crew compositions ("solo with bots"-mode).

In my opinion the most logical solution to achieving both feasible solo and co-op play is by changing how the Railjack parts and mods work, and work together to balance Railjack capability. As a general example, a co-op team has the potential to dish out much more damage (using all weaponry "continuously"), to quickly repair damage (and repel boarders) and sending part of the crew on "out-of-Railjack"-ops than a solo player. For a solo player the situation is the opposite, you are using only one weapon (front), having to leave the driver's seat to repair and repel boarders is "tough" (on the nerves also) and leaving the Railjack to board bases and other ships is fraught with danger (even if the game cheats a bit to help you).

The logical conclusion to this would be to allow players to mod/build their Railjack accordingly. The avionics/parts system should allow a co-op Railjack to focus on firepower and speed, while allowing a solo Railjack to focus on defense, auto-repairs and the ability to hide a parked ship. The current modding system is (much) too limited to allow this, since parts and weapons are (mostly) disconnected from the amount of avionics you put in. For instance, when designing/modding your solo Railjack it should be possible to get more "space" by not using any side turrets (and even front artillery/slingshot) and use this space for more armor/health, "boarder repelling systems", "auto-repair systems", "cloaked parking device" etc. In the same spirit, but going the other way, a "co-op Railjack" should have the possibility to be designed for "boosted" fire power and maneuverability/speed (maybe even a "blink" module), by removing a bit of armor, repair systems etc.

Currently this kind of "mod width" is simply unachievable, instead the whole Railjack concept has been pushed towards a "flavored meta", where some mods are "must haves" in any build and all builds must have certain components (of a certain level/value). Instead of functioning as broad base concept for a new game mode a Railjack is more like a single warframe in that the focus is on getting certain mods because they guarantee the "best build". And not on getting mods in order to push your Railjack in the direction you want it to go. I think the Railjack has huge potential, but the current system is also a huge miss.

What Railjack should do is give us Tennos the building blocks and a framework to design our own spaceship, with different designs also actually being meaningfully different. What it absolutely shouldn't be is a big "warframe-in-space", with it's own meta and enemies, missions, drops and general play designed accordingly.

And speaking of missions, that is the other problem. They are currently all basically the same (no, having to board a ship instead of a base doesn't make them "different"). The limitedness of missions ("waves of fighters, some crewships, maybe something that needs boarding") also pushes Railjack modding and capabilities in only one direction. You basically need the same Railjack for any mission/all missions, and you play them all the same way. In order to make Railjack (as a whole) more interesting and rewarding, the missions need a lot more variability as well as allowing for different playstyles. A lot more could be done with the actual maps/missions (big asteroid fields where collisions cause damage, larger objects generating attractive force fields, possibilities for mining/treasure hunting, escorting missions, "endless defense missions" etc.). But instead of pushing every Railjack into the same meta, the variability should (very much) force Railjack design/builds in different directions.

[Kamachi]

We're going to need more Avionic capacity if you're going to remove all integrated avionics except the strongest / highest draining ones. Otherwise every RJ will be going for the same build.

Also, will players who have a particular integrated avionic that isn't the "best" one receive a copy of the "best" one since you'll be deleting our copies of that integrated avionic? Or are we going to be forced to have to farm the avionics again? 

[(PSN)TONI__RIBEIRO]

11 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

• Each Integrated Avionic Type will now only exist with a single Manufacturer rather than three Manufacturer flavors.
• The ‘retired’ Integrated Avionics will be removed from players inventory via a script.

Is that even legal? Don't you have to replace the avionic for the one that will remain? 🤔

[CanOfCraig]

As someone who felt a little let down by railjack - I'm hyped up for hard changes like this. I think the combination of altering speed and changing the enemy spawn distance is an amazing idea (please pass this idea along to whomever is overseeing kuva liches). One thing does have me a little worried though... If the greener are cut in half ehp wise, and our weapon potential is boosted. We might be cutting through missions a little too fast. As someone who does alot of a I capture spam, I really don't want to see railjack go down that same rout. Time to reward is something to be mindful of yes, but if it's too fast the mission becomes unengaging almost all together. Will there perhaps be a possible increase in smaller enemies for railjack missions with more... Let's say smaller fights (without crew ships) that become relevant if ignored? This could play well with resource management - keeping things like void hole for more heavy battles where we would want to knock out a crewship quickly for area control. 

[ShirakawaNaoya]

Oookay, so while still waiting for 500 tester, some listed already has foreseeable tweak;

- RJ innate look pickup buff : Please adjust for Archwing user in RJ mission as well.

- Hazards : Annoying as it may be... at current state, player can simply ignore them and only pay attention to the big red hull breach. The Hazard need something meaningful maybe mid-heavy penalty for ignoring them e.g .scaling damage the longer you ignore that kinda thing to allow breathing room. Also while at it, please shift them away from the ramsledge/splintrix spawn spot. There is an issue of not able to fix the big red breach causing mission failure.

- Increased Revolite consumption : Granted that the crafting yield may cancel each other out, the resources gain in mission will also need to be looked at to avoid potential exhaustion midway.
 

[Mephane]

12 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

• Each Integrated Avionic Type will now only exist with a single Manufacturer rather than three Manufacturer flavors.
• The ‘retired’ Integrated Avionics will be removed from players inventory via a script.

This means if you happen to not only an Avionic from the school that you pick to be the only one, you straight up lose that Avionic altogether. For example, I don't have Zetki Hull Weave. If you chose Zetki as the school for that, my Railjack will lose its armor.

This is not okay. What you should do instead, is convert all avionics in our inventory into their version that is to exist going forward.

[Lightning_Bloom]

This looks great! I've been hoping for normalization of archgun stats.

About arch-melee, the changes look nice, but I think some mods should also be looked at. Furor is the first that comes to mind, with it's speed boost of 10% at max rank.

I'd also like to see some further rebalance of arch-guns, because some are pretty weak. The first thing that comes to mind here is that Dual decurions need a boost to their crit chance to fit their niche and be viable.

[Imppuccino]

I kinda feel like Engineer intrinsics lose their point a little bit now. Why is scaling down the hazards necessary?

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

I forgot to mention the most important reaction I had to these changes...............

NOTHING about PERMISSIONS ?!?!?!?!?!   

Your doing NOTHING about random people screwing you over when your the captain of your own damn railjack???  AKA doing nothing to encourage squad play?? Stopping trolls?? 

- pilot 

- flux abilities

-missiles

-refining

 

 

I dont know how the hell strafing made it onto your radar and this didnt....   I never used strafing or even heard of people strafing..  Not sure how its game breaking or warrants screwing over boost/drift.   I can guess why it started happening.  Our weapons are weak as hell versus veil fighters and if you dont have void hole.....  Rank 9 gunnery is literally all about boosting damage and heat disappation when you use weapons while drifting...... now your saying thats bad ???  lol. 

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

1 hour ago, Mephane said:

This means if you happen to not only an Avionic from the school that you pick to be the only one, you straight up lose that Avionic altogether. For example, I don't have Zetki Hull Weave. If you chose Zetki as the school for that, my Railjack will lose its armor.

This is not okay. What you should do instead, is convert all avionics in our inventory into their version that is to exist going forward.

They are going take all your crap mods,  then they are going to give back the new version.  

If u have lavan or vidar hullweave and NOT zekti.... poof lavan and vidar are gone..... and you get the new Tenno Hullweave (which has the stats of the best manufacturer zekti).  

So your going to come out ahead once you rank it back up and slap it on.   

-----------------

I do not have zekti predator or section density.  I do have turd brands.  Once this goes live I will have the best =P

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

Hopefully with the vailence transfur feature the zekti and levan reactors can go to 100 capacity as well so yoi dont half to rely on massive rng to get 2 vidat reactors to combind into one 

Id like this becouse there are sertint effects you can only get on zekti and levan reactors that are prity good and it would help people out to get the purfict railjack they want with the purfict effects they want  and not half to worry about just geting vidar reactors 

And if the avionics are geting increast to the highest value of the houses they can go to usualy being 13 that means were going to need a lot of capacity to be able to use the full effect of the avionics 

[akeean]

14 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Battle Avionic Refresh:

Can we get the Void Cloak to stop in transit pods from targeting the Railjack?

Currently, Cloak only helps prevent fighters and Crew ships attacking, while pods still keep tracking and hitting the Railjack and Crew ships launching pods at Railjacks that they don't even know are nearby.

Also can we get pod launches being depended on how many crew ships are around? With 1-2 Crew ships getting a pod per 30ish seconds is bearable, but when you have 6 Crew ships the Railjack, you'll be getting wacked by a boarding party every few seconds. Also scaling the speed & cap at which pods are generated to be linked to a Crew ships health would be nice, generating some initiative to have gunners actually shoot those things.

[taiiat]

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• Changing the pacing and general feel of all Railjack Piloting and movement to be less reliant on the optimal strategy of “Single strafe Boost then Repeat”: 
  • Doubled the Railjack’s base Speed. 
  • Lowered Boost Speed by 75% 
  • Increased the Boost Speed cost of dodge. 
  • Increased Boost Drain (8 - 15)

great, so now instead of Boost Drifting around everywhere...
we just hold W.
oh yeah, that's definitely way more fun.

can we not shoot ourself in both feet, the Hip, and the Head? what the hell.

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Tripled values of Titanium and Asterite resource drops

don't forget that Asterite is the last Railjack Resource that doesn't exist in Mission Rewards, and only as Drops.

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Decreased the amount of time between landing the killing shot to the enemy explosion on Fighters (.1 - 1 sec) down from (1-3) seconds.

same deal for Crewships, i hope? they're the biggest offenders, the way to be sure you get their Drops is to park the Railjack on top of their Corpse for a full 20 seconds until the Ship actually dies.

 

 

 

 

speaking of Archwing Melee, can i remind that Veritux has really awful Animations compared to the rest of the Melee Weapons? even Prisma Veritux is ultimately competing for the slowest Archwing Melee because of how awkward the attack Animations it has are.

 

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ALL remaining Integrated Avionics will have their Upgrades drained.

i know this is a little bit of a request, but could there be a Prompt upon logging in to prefer to drain them, or leave their Upgrades as is?
having to upgrade every single Mod all over again is a lot of mostly unnecessary clicking.

[angel_bee]

overall these are really good ideas to make railjack more fun overall. however, im worried that if all avionics are the same house, then I won't be able to fit the same things into my avionic config as i am at full capacity right now.

What i'm saying is if, for example, after the update, only the zetki version of bulkhead is available (which has highest capacity drain of all bulkheads) then i can't fit bulkhead anymore because I was only just able to squeeze in lavan/vidar bulkhead before the change. please consider this before rolling out the changes.

[Radagosh]

can you please make crewships vulnerable to RJ weapons.

It is not fun to be forced to leave your RJ to destroy them and neither is getting out of your pilot seat and using ressources to maybe kill them.

[(PSN)corpusbonds]

1 minute ago, Radagosh said:

can you please make crewships vulnerable to RJ weapons.

It is not fun to be forced to leave your RJ to destroy them and neither is getting out of your pilot seat and using ressources to maybe kill them.

Usually the bigger canon behind the pilot seat can 1-3 shot them, if you don’t want to go out to sabotage the ship.

[(PSN)nerdlegend]

Any reactor changes planned mainly drop rates? Overall most of these changes require well some play testing but they look decent on paper. Main concern at the moment is drain and reactor size. 

[angel_bee]

2 minutes ago, Radagosh said:

can you please make crewships vulnerable to RJ weapons.

It is not fun to be forced to leave your RJ to destroy them and neither is getting out of your pilot seat and using ressources to maybe kill them.

or at least allow more methods to kill the crewships.

[LapuLapo]

Something I still don't understand:

What is the plan for combined elementals for archwing weapons in railjack missions?

We know what the Railjack elemental counterparts are for single elementals, but as far as anyone I know can tell, if you combine elements in your Archgun builds, you're basically just taking a status off of your Archwing for the purpose of Railjack, instead of getting a new functionality. Is this intentional? is this unfinished? Is there a greater plan here? Or am I missing some kind of mechanic that I should've been able to figure out from the Railjack patch notes for the damage types.  It's really, really unclear how the AW modding screen translates to Railjack play.

[LupoDWolf]

16 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

This game is for casuals now. I gave up requesting challenge to DE a long time ago. If you want challenge might as well play another game.

I still don't get you people that want a pseudo-challange with enemies that are just bullet sponge.

But if they nerf a frame or a OP weapon, the chaos is absurd

Also with this changes, can then the base reactor value be 50 instead of 30?