Grineer Flavored Pie

[Scar.brother.help.me]

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[Steel_Rook]

Thanks. What is this?

[(XBOX)ShonOfDawn]

Am I the only one who thinks nullifiers, in their current rendition, are decent enemies?

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Well... It's true. I also rather fight Grineer or Infested since they're more straightforward. At the very least we should equalize affinity gains per faction since DE is changing how factions work (Corpus shield gate, Infested have more damage).

That alone would be a great boost for me to be more neutral regarding factions.

Edited May 23, 2020 by (PS4)Hikuro-93

[PurrrningBoop]

38 минут назад, Scar.brother.help.me сказал:

-snip

The pie chart in the devstream used only factions, what are you on to?

[Loza03]

38 minutes ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

Am I the only one who thinks nullifiers, in their current rendition, are decent enemies?

The regular ones, and the post nerf Jupiter ones? I'm a fan.

Isolator Bursas and Orb Vallis Shield Drones can go eat a Bolaraola. A Thorny Bolarola.

 

Nullifiers are fine, the produce clear, predictable areas of effect and are usually slow and very well conveyed. They're powerful, but frail - a glass cannon of sorts. Isolator Bursas can drop a Nullifier Field wherever they damn well please (including off screen and into small pits so you don't see them do it or where it is) and Shield Bursas can grant Nullifier fields to hypermobile or extremely powerful enemies. 

[Scar.brother.help.me]

Ok, let me explain the problem with Nullifiers as they are: they completely strip u off all buffs, and this is crucial for the frames who heavily rely on them: damage reductions, invisibility, armor, hp buffs, rift planes, globes, etc to the point you decide "Hell with you!" and pick something like INAROS who can survive just fine if his 4 gets stripped relying on his passive survivability or Khora, who's chains override the field.

BTW I also think falling off the cliff shouldn't cancel your buffs as well. The only other situation when you need to reapply your buffs is when you die (I won't say for everyone but for me crossing a Null field is as bad as dying).

If Nullifier fields were reworked to either disable buffs while inside the field and regain it as soon as you are out of it or at most - have a few seconds disabled after - and then everything works again, buffs come back, abilities start to work, etc. For this change I'd be happy to give every nullifier lots of hp, armor and a railgun.

Edited May 25, 2020 by Scar.brother.help.me

[BlackCat500]

Hard agreement on the affinity imbalance and the auras, those are really low blows that ought to be adjusted. Nullifiers could honestly be more of a thing that heavily reduce the current buff duration rather than outright remove it, but that's just me. Mostly fine with them otherwise. This post is exactly what I was thinking when I saw the chart though.

Only thing to add: infested = boring faction with hook spam. Literally doesn't have any interesting enemies. The juggernaut is more of a nuisance than anything and just spams trash.

[Vejove]

Yeah, I agree with most of the pie chart, except about the nullifiers. The only problem I have with nullifiers is that you make out what's inside the bubble.  It's a minor irritant, but maybe they could make it so the bubble is more opaque on top and translucent on the bottom?  

I also agree with BlackCat.  The infested need a complete rework from the ground up, because they are boring af.  All most of them do is run at you and get cooked by your ignis.  They don't hide for sudden ambushes, they don't have units that fill the air with bullets at you while you're bogged down with melee fighters, and they are almost never a threat.  I disagree about the poison auras bit.  The green flashes indicate where the ancients are pretty well imo.

[kgabor]

The title almost made me throw up, Grineer probably don't have a goid taste but Worm would disagree.

2 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

Am I the only one who thinks nullifiers, in their current rendition, are decent enemies?

Not when their drones don't spawn or glitch into walls, making it a pain to deal with Nully spam with my low RoF sniper rifles and other similar weapons.

[Tiltskillet]

2 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

Am I the only one who thinks nullifiers, in their current rendition, are decent enemies?

They could be improved--the problems with the drone hitbox still frustrate me, and they should be a little more rare--but "decent" strikes me as a good word for them.

[Althaline]

I'd say your interpretation is not the main cause. Think about the factions that have gotten content recently: Grineer (Liches), Grineer (Railjack), Grineer/Sentient combo (Scarlet Spear). Seeing a pattern? That'd be what the graph is about.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, Iamabearlulz said:

I'd say your interpretation is not the main cause. Think about the factions that have gotten content recently: Grineer (Liches), Grineer (Railjack), Grineer/Sentient combo (Scarlet Spear). Seeing a pattern? That'd be what the graph is about.

That's had a huge impact, no doubt.   I'd be really curious to see the same chart for say, the three months before Liches.   And for that matter, the three months after Fortuna.  I'm sure Corpus did a lot better...but I  wonder if they pulled even with Grineer, even then.

 

[kgabor]

Btw. i wonder what's the green part on the chart.

Surely not Sentients.

Maybe there is a Shrek faction in the game i didn't know about?

Or a Grofit themed Corpus sub-faction?

[Teridax68]

So on one hand, I think the big problem with that graph is that it's being interpreted as a function of preference, when I suspect the major skewing factor is that the Grineer are by far the faction that have received the most content. Kuva Liches and Railjack are Grineer-only, Kuva farming skews heavily in favor of combat with Grineer, as well, and Eidolon hunts take place in the Grineer-controlled Plains of Eidolon. Effectively, most late-game-oriented activities take place mainly against Grineer, who have received far more attention than the other factions outside of a few updates oriented towards the Corpus, namely Fortuna and The Jovian Concord. It is therefore not surprising that we would be mainly fighting Grineer, irrespective of how the faction plays compared to the others.

With that said, though, I do have to agree that the Grineer are also the least annoying faction to fight overall, because outside of a few Energy Leech Eximi, they don't shut down the player's abilities, nor do they ignore the player's shield gating. After the changes to shields and enemy scaling, they're arguably not even the most durable faction anymore, since Corpus enemies at higher levels will pretty much always require two hits to go down, whereas most Grineer can be one-shot by powerful enough weapons at most levels where we deal with them. It is also true that, for whichever strange reason, they give better Affinity rewards, which makes them all the more desirable to fight compared to the rest. While I do believe the design of Corpus enemies has improved somewhat with the new units in the Corpus Gas City tileset, the faction still has the issue of disrupting our ability usage, whereas Infested and Corrupted enemy design has essentially not evolved at all in years. Removing ability nullification and Energy drain auras would be a start, though even then, pretty much every faction could stand to improve significantly.

[Tiltskillet]

2 hours ago, kgabor said:

Btw. i wonder what's the green part on the chart.

Surely not Sentients.

Maybe there is a Shrek faction in the game i didn't know about?

Or a Grofit themed Corpus sub-faction?

Desert Skate / Feral Kubrow / Helpless Conservation Target faction.  😛

[ES-Flinter]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb kgabor:

- snip -

I would more like to know what is the turquoise/ light green colored one between the green and blue.

Tenno-> Conclave?

 

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

Oops I didn't notice this one and made another topic
 

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1195872-add-incentive-to-fight-something-else-than-grineer/

Citation

Infested have fewer maps on starchart, no open world.
Orokin also only have 1 planet and on fissure you usually fight another faction.

Now grineer / Corpus : grineer have fast XP maps (Helen, Hydron, Adaro), and have less annoying ennemies (no nullifiers, bursa), and even recently grineer armor have been nerfed while Corpus got shield gating, and gas (and zenistar) were nerfed.
Also grineer got Kuva survival, Kuva liches, and railjack

As long as Corpus are a chore to fight, XP less than grineer, don't even provide "end-game rewards" (i.e. Kuva and Bramma equivalent), there will be no reason to play against them when you are not forced to do it.

So things will probably change with OP primary kitguns, but without RNG double dip / valence, it'll be a "do once" activity. with "hard / very hard" mode I hope that you will be able to level guns / warframe as fast as hydron / adaro with any map (yes I know ESO is faster for weapons, but we found recently that railjack was even faster and also give intrinsics)

... and to be honest : check arbitration stats, you'll get even more precise data.

I really think that it's time to lower the parasitic eximus spam for infested and nullifier spam for corpus... or add an equivalent chore when fighting against grineer (a parasitic eximus Nox with nullifier bubble who spam those grenades multiple times and knockdown.... spawning by bunch of 6 past 15min of survival / wave 10 of defense... true end-game...)

 

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

I don't like nullifiers : the nullfiying effect apply to all powers (compared to the Comba abilities), the bubble size increase is often ridiculous and go through walls / floors, you way to often just don't have a line of sight on the drone, and they promote "spray and pray" weapons to destroy them and "passive tanks" (i.e. not relying on warframe powers : Inaros and Hildryn).

I would really like to have the "nullifiers" removed as troop, and keeping them as eximus guardian would make sense.

[Steel_Rook]

Far as I'm concerned, Nullifiers are fine - the regular ones at least. The Nullifier bubbles are well-telegraphed large objects visible at extreme ranges, the Nullifiers themselves move fairly slowly, the mechanics for popping the bubble benefit both rapid-fire and hard-hitting weapons. They're done pretty well mechanically. They can certainly be improved, I agree. For me personally, giving them some kind of loud, obvious sound both for triggering the bubble and for just running it would be nice. Something suitably dubstep, like the rest of the Corpus sound effects would be nice. Take the Nox, for instance - you can never miss those guys on the field due to their distinct voices.

Further, I do agree with people. Nullifiers shouldn't instantly strip buffs. They already don't do that universally. Warframes like Atlas, Nidus, Gauss, Grendel and a few others don't lose some of their buffs in Nullifier fields. Rather, those buffs begin draining rapidly. I'm of the opinion that the same should happen to all player buffs. If the buff is on a timer, run the clock on it much faster inside a Nullifier field. Say 3 seconds per second. If the buff has health, begin draining health off it inside a Nullifier field. I's say 5-10% health per second. This means Rhino's Iron Skin and frost's Snow Globe would drop in 10-20 seconds inside a Nullifier field. Or maybe do a hybrid - 500 DPS or 10% DPS, whichever is higher.

And yes, I also do agree that Nullifier Bursas, Terra Corpus Nullifier Ospreys and ESPECIALLY Comba/Scrambus enemies ARE bullS#&$, though. Those last couple I personally feel are just badly designed. They move fast, they're hard to kill and they blast a nullification aura with a MASSIVE range and pretty rapid expansion with very little warning. Yeah, if I'm looking at the Scrambus, I might see them put their hands on their head. Most of the time, though, I eat a Scrambus wave from behind, from a Scrambus I didn't even know was on the map.

There's definitely more to do with Nullifiers, but I'd argue that people are largely overstating their impact at the same time.

 

With that said - the Dev Stream pie chart is not a representation of player PREFERENCE. It's a representation of content released. Others have said this already, and it's true - damn near all of the recently-released content is Grineer, especially the high-level content. Railjack, Kuva Liches and Scarlet Spear are all Grineer. Kuva Survival and Kuva Siphons/Floods are also Grineer, as are all of the Requiem Fissures. The new Corpus Ship redesign might help shift this a bit towards Corpus, but I don't think the pie chart will change until and unless we get a Corpus counterpart to Liches and Corpus Railjack missions.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

On 2020-05-24 at 4:22 PM, Steel_Rook said:

Nullifiers shouldn't instantly strip buffs. They already don't do that universally. Warframes like Atlas, Nidus, Gauss, Grendel and a few others don't lose some of their buffs in Nullifier fields. Rather, those buffs begin draining rapidly. I'm of the opinion that the same should happen to all player buffs. If the buff is on a timer, run the clock on it much faster inside a Nullifier field. Say 3 seconds per second. If the buff has health, begin draining health off it inside a Nullifier field. I's say 5-10% health per second. This means Rhino's Iron Skin and frost's Snow Globe would drop in 10-20 seconds inside a Nullifier field. Or maybe do a hybrid - 500 DPS or 10% DPS, whichever is higher.

I am glad that people like you agree that buff stripping is a crappy, lazy and mega-annoying mechanic (reminds me of Lineage II - a Korean MMORPG where you need to have around 20 buffs to be fine and some classes just have an ability to CANCEL your buffs in PvP, making you helpless).

 to DE:  I'll keep on saying that the best change in Nullifiers - replace buff stripping to buff muting/shutting down while inside the bubble and full recovery when out of it as if nothing happened. Just so I won't be scared to be touched by the edge of the bubble and then hide somewhere around the corner rebuffing my stuff as well as I won't have to worry about cataclysm/frost globe/wisp reservoirs/Ivara's dashwire and cloak bubble/etc be randomly wiped by corrupted nullifier spawning nearby during an endless relic mission. It is fine when things get shut down while under the influence of Nullifier's field, just let it come back after the field is gone. Keep the danger and the challenge - remove the annoying part, and u can make Nullifiers much stronger and thicker as a unit.

P.S:"same about losing buffs after falling/out of bounds - this is just as annoying, and there is no consistency in it anyway since part of the buffs don't disappear after this"

Edited June 10, 2020 by Scar.brother.help.me

[ES-Flinter]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Scar.brother.help.me:

to DE:  I'll keep on saying that the best change in Nullifiers - replace buff stripping to buff muting/shutting down while inside the bubble and full recovery when out of it as if nothing happened. Just so I won't be scared to be touched by the edge of the bubble and then hide somewhere around the corner rebuffing my stuff as well as I won't have to worry about cataclysm/frost globe/wisp reservoirs/Ivara's dashwire and cloak bubble/etc be randomly wiped by corrupted nullifier spawning nearby during an endless relic mission. It is fine when things get shut down while under the influence of Nullifier's field, just let it come back after the field is gone. Keep the danger and the challenge - remove the annoying part, and u can make Nullifiers much stronger and thicker as a unit.

I wouldn't have anything against it.

vor einer Stunde schrieb Scar.brother.help.me:

P.S:"same about losing buffs after falling/out of bounds - this is just as annoying, and there is no consistency in it anyway since part of the buffs don't disappear after this"

Every other game "kills" you if you fall down from the map. In warframe you lose only your buffs. And it's not like that falling from the map happens random right?

[Nichivo]

I hope they ignore this, and bring back real prosecutors, manics, ancients, feral kubrow, comba, scrambus, wolf, stalker, orb vallis, railjack enemies, and a few absolutely ominous deadly things yet to be seen. While they are at it bring back self damage, give all the aoe weapons some more aoe range, and crank the amp up to 11(joke reference).😈

[Steel_Rook]

1 hour ago, ES-Flinter said:

Every other game "kills" you if you fall down from the map. In warframe you lose only your buffs. And it's not like that falling from the map happens random right?

The problem is that DE also reuse the "out of bounds teleportation" mechanic for a number of other core game mechanics. Going through any Orokin teleporter (Void Sabotage portal, Lua Rescue) does it, as do some transitions in Invasion missions (Grineer Ramsled, Corpus Teleporter). Inaros and Rhino lose their buffs in those situations. There's also the issue of Archwings stripping buffs the same way when you equip them, though that might be even more universal.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

On 2020-06-10 at 3:58 PM, ES-Flinter said:

 

Every other game "kills" you if you fall down from the map. In warframe you lose only your buffs. And it's not like that falling from the map happens random right?

I'll also keep saying that losing buffs is as bad as dying. The difference is that you also lose some gained affinity and your lives are not unlimited (but how often you run out of lives in warframe? And do you even count how much of them you have left?)