DE wants a Zero Tolerance policy and that's going to destroy this game

[k11su]

Thank you DE for taking the choice out of my hands and forcing me to uninstall your game and cut all ties. Because I cannot, in good conscience, support a company after such naive and blind statements.

[Zimzala]

11 minutes ago, Helch0rn said:

the sad thing nowadays is, that many people define racism, sexims and the like by "they disagree with me"

do you want to be ostracised from a game you like because you had a disagreement with someone?

I would not care in the least, because I know I live my life in a way that allows me to sleep at night.

If some gamer(s) don't want to play games with me, for any reason, then I think they should have the option to ignore me.

If players are immature/inexperienced enough humans to orstracize me because they disagree with something I said, why would I care about them or what they do?

IMO, so many people are coming at this like this platform is a country or a life-giving resource and it's just a video game.

I don't care what people in real life think of me, why on earth would I care what some random Internet gamer thinks about me?

 

11 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Now, if you let someone stay in your online community, and you try to teach them, and they reject it, then go ahead and cast them out, so they can go be with their fellow racists and bigots. But don't send the teachable to those who will teach them wrongly. The internet is far too vast and too deep to be able to completely prevent racists and bigots from using it to congregate. They will always be there to take in those whom you reject. So be careful when deciding whom to cast out.

How is an autoban not doing exactly this?

You get banned, you have to appeal to come back, so get get taught the lesson you describe.

It's NOT DE's job to teach people how to be good humans, it's just a video game service.

I have no desire to spend my game time trying to teach racist jerks how to be better people, it's just that simple.

There are so very many other ways to get that done that do not include the game.

 

I really think that some of you are under the impression global chanels in a GaaS game are some sacrosant communication platform....

Edited June 5, 2020 by Zimzala

[jakey1995abc]

1 minute ago, kwlingo said:

another thread that will be turned off. lol

As long as they don't delete this thread I will be happy. There are many opposing comments here that should be taken in to consideration by DE when it comes to the new policies.

[Corvid]

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

Your broad assuption of innocence is simply your anecdotal experience

As is your broad assumption of guilt.

Ostracising people you disagree with won't change them. If anything, it will likely turn them spiteful.

[Gabbynaru]

Honestly, I still cannot see the point of region chat, in any game. Frankly, chat rooms without a purpose are generally just a gathering of people. So if it comes to the point where region chat is completely killed... good, fine by me. There's nothing people say in region chat that I cannot do without knowing or reading.

If I want to chat, I can do it in private. If I want to coordinate with the team, I can do it in team chat.  If I wanna know the status of my guild, I have the guild chat. If I wanna trade, I have trade chat. If I wanna make a team, I have recruiting. All of them have a purpose. Region doesn't. So if killing it makes this game a better place, I'm all for it, cause it's no loss whatsoever.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

8 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Honestly, I still cannot see the point of region chat, in any game. Frankly, chat rooms without a purpose are generally just a gathering of people. So if it comes to the point where region chat is completely killed... good, fine by me. There's nothing people say in region chat that I cannot do without knowing or reading.

If I want to chat, I can do it in private. If I want to coordinate with the team, I can do it in team chat.  If I wanna know the status of my guild, I have the guild chat. If I wanna trade, I have trade chat. If I wanna make a team, I have recruiting. All of them have a purpose. Region doesn't. So if killing it makes this game a better place, I'm all for it, cause it's no loss whatsoever.

I would love to see Region Chat removed, as I agree that it serves no purpose. However, the Zero-Tolerance policy will likely extend beyond just Region Chat, which is what worries me.

[KosmicKerman]

17 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Old posts get archieved and can't be seen after a certain point.  

I can find my introduction post via Google but I can't see it in my post history.

Your avatar shows 20,000+ posts. Jakey's showed five when I made my initial comment and had +3 reputation. Obviously I have no first-hand knowledge but if it walks like an alt account, acts like an alt account, and quacks like an alt account...

[Helch0rn]

7 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

How is an autoban not doing exactly this?

You get banned, you have to appeal to come back, so get get taught the lesson you describe.

It's NOT DE's job to teach people how to be good humans, it's just a video game service.

I have no desire to spend my game time trying to teach racist jerks how to be better people, it's just that simple.

There are so very many other ways to get that done that do not include the game.

 

I really think that some of you are under the impression global chanels in a GaaS game are some sacrosant communication platform....

if it's not DE's job to educate, then why should DE even ban people because they have the wrong opinion?

if you don't like what someone says, just block them and you won't have to read what they say. you can live in peace and the "racist" can do so too

[Sean]

Just now, KosmicKerman said:

Your avatar shows 20,000+ posts. Jakey's showed five when I made my initial comment and had +3 reputation. Obviously I have no first-hand knowledge but if it walks like an alt account, acts like an alt account, and quacks like an alt account...

Wouldn't that also mean they have no game time?

You can simply /profile their name in-game and find more about them.

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 9 heures, Circle_of_Psi a dit :

Isn't stopping/blocking free speech illegal?, As far I recall, I am pretty sure it is?, or am I thinking of something different? 

Not in a privately owned space like the chat of a videogame. In there freedom of speech need not apply. 

[Zimzala]

1 minute ago, Corvid said:

As is your broad assumption of guilt.

Ostracising people you disagree with won't change them. If anything, it will likely turn them spiteful.

And?

That's a part of the human experience.

I ostracize hateful jerks as often as I can, as publically as I can, always have.

I am well-aware I cannot change the bad wiring of other people, it is not in my skillset.

I think hateful people that we are talking about here should not get ANY services from the community, including water and food, yes I take it that far.

If they cannot be reasonable members of the community, if they spout this hate we are talking about and keep the outlook, then they face the consequences.

[jakey1995abc]

Just now, KosmicKerman said:

Your avatar shows 20,000+ posts. Jakey's showed five when I made my initial comment and had +3 reputation. Obviously I have no first-hand knowledge but if it walks like an alt account, acts like an alt account, and quacks like an alt account...

That's a very prejudice statement and I am offended by your rep shaming. Perhaps I should report you?

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

3 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

I have no desire to spend my game time trying to teach racist jerks how to be better people, it's just that simple.

Not everyone that says something racist is a jerk. There is a difference between action and intent. That's my whole point.

As it is now, there is no appeal. If you get banned for 1 week, that's it. You can't apologize, you can't pay pennance, you just have to wait it out.

Switching to a zero-tolerance policy will only make this worse.

And banning someone teaches them nothing on its own. That would be like expecting a toddler to learn what's right and wrong solely through spankings and time-outs. Neither of those things tell you anything other than "Something you did at some point in time was wrong", which doesn't help with the process of learning. Learning right and wrong requires being told what was wrong, why it was wrong, and how to make it right again (if possible). If DE's current banning procedure sent a banned player a message including what it was that they said, and why it was wrong (racism, homophobia, etc.), and allowed for first-time offenses to be appealed (with an even more severe punishment for the second offense if the first is appealed), then it would be teaching players instead of merely punishing them, and those who accept the teaching would go on to be good players, and those who reject it would have escalating punishments up to and including an account ban.

[Zimzala]

1 minute ago, Helch0rn said:

if it's not DE's job to educate, then why should DE even ban people because they have the wrong opinion?

if you don't like what someone says, just block them and you won't have to read what they say. you can live in peace and the "racist" can do so too

It's thier 'job' to keep thier platform in the state they desire and in this case, that includes banning jerks.

They don't have to provide services to racists, they are under no obligation to do so, just as they are under no obligation to teach people.

Ignoring the racists allows them to continue to prosper.

Remove all resources from them is my outlook.

[MagPrime]

4 minutes ago, KosmicKerman said:

Your avatar shows 20,000+ posts. Jakey's showed five when I made my initial comment and had +3 reputation. Obviously I have no first-hand knowledge but if it walks like an alt account, acts like an alt account, and quacks like an alt account...

Yeeereah, not sure my account should be a baseline for anyone else's. 

My join date shows 2016 but I have post history extending beyond that and, a few updates ago, I actually had 30,000 post count...

Things went wrong for my forum stats when I changed my alias. 

[KosmicKerman]

22 minutes ago, jakey1995abc said:

This is not the case, my other posts were removed for "spam" for talking about a subject that had been mentioned before and also locked for getting off topic. And maybe I only feel the need to comment on serious issues rather than posting about what Warframe I think is the best.
Could you give examples or these words that you deem unacceptable so that the community can avoid using them?

 

5 minutes ago, jakey1995abc said:

That's a very prejudice statement and I am offended by your rep shaming. Perhaps I should report you?

Your last two posts are just making my point for me. In your first, you ask that I provide a list of slurs in the hopes that I'm dumb enough to follow through and get banned and in the second you threaten to report me, even in jest, for a spurious reason. It's hard to come to any other conclusion than you are here to bait people and stir up drama.

Edited June 5, 2020 by KosmicKerman

[Zimzala]

6 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Not everyone that says something racist is a jerk. There is a difference between action and intent. That's my whole point.

As it is now, there is no appeal. If you get banned for 1 week, that's it. You can't apologize, you can't pay pennance, you just have to wait it out.

Switching to a zero-tolerance policy will only make this worse.

And banning someone teaches them nothing on its own. That would be like expecting a toddler to learn what's right and wrong solely through spankings and time-outs. Neither of those things tell you anything other than "Something you did at some point in time was wrong", which doesn't help with the process of learning. Learning right and wrong requires being told what was wrong, why it was wrong, and how to make it right again (if possible). If DE's current banning procedure sent a banned player a message including what it was that they said, and why it was wrong (racism, homophobia, etc.), and allowed for first-time offenses to be appealed (with an even more severe punishment for the second offense if the first is appealed), then it would be teaching players instead of merely punishing them, and those who accept the teaching would go on to be good players, and those who reject it would have escalating punishments up to and including an account ban.

It's not DE's job to teach people, why is this so hard to understand?

It's DE's job to keep customers happy, they choose to do so by telling jerks they are not welcome.

And yes, you can always come back, because you can start over with a new account and not act like a jerk, so you can learn a lesson from being banned, IMO.

DE does not have an obligation to provide this service.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Zimzala
speeling

[KosmicKerman]

7 minutes ago, Sean said:

Wouldn't that also mean they have no game time?

You can simply /profile their name in-game and find more about them.

My understanding is that one of the main reasons for alt accounts is for trading and holding items. So no?

[Sean]

Just now, KosmicKerman said:

My understanding is that one of the main reasons for alt accounts is for trading and holding items. So no?

Which is then bannable, so then report them if you think that is what they are doing.

[Gabbynaru]

23 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

I would love to see Region Chat removed, as I agree that it serves no purpose. However, the Zero-Tolerance policy will likely extend beyond just Region Chat, which is what worries me.

But again, even if it does extend, each chat room has a purpose that should be adhered to, therefore it inherently makes people less likely to derail them. Because people come into those chat rooms with a specific expectation of what they will see and what is expected of them. So anyone going in there to spout racist stuff or whatever is doing it on purpose, rather than accidentally. You don't accidentally call someone the N word in trading chat. Not when the scrolling text is clearly showing you the purpose and expectations of where you're posting. So even if it would be bleeding into other chats, will be beneficial, because it will keep them on track and will keep the purposefully bad actors at bay.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Gabbynaru
grammar

[Helch0rn]

9 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

It's thier 'job' to keep thier platform in the state they desire and in this case, that includes banning jerks.

They don't have to provide services to racists, they are under no obligation to do so, just as they are under no obligation to teach people.

Ignoring the racists allows them to continue to prosper.

Remove all resources from them is my outlook.

it's their job to make money and implementing a ruleset so strict that it drives players off is the opposite of good business.

 

fun fact: according to the financial report of leyou (or whatever the name of the company is that owns the majority of DE's stock) DE lost 6 million dollars last year

anyway, I'm out of this thread

Edited June 5, 2020 by Helch0rn

[KosmicKerman]

5 minutes ago, Sean said:

Which is then bannable, so then report them if you think that is what they are doing.

Sean,  in an earlier post you said "Context always matters." The "speaker" is one of the most important parts of "context." It's a little bizarre that you feel the need to question my post discussing the "context" of someone's post in this thread given your previously stated belief that "context always matter."

Edited June 5, 2020 by KosmicKerman

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

I seen a  guy in region chat the other day  talking about how many dildos,buttplugs and anal beads he had   A very in depth conversation that went on for quite a while. Didn’t even get kicked off. I thought it a strange thing to talk about in a game chat but o well to each his own I guess 

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

If a player thinks it is in any way a positive move to put hate speech in a global channel in a game, I want that player to be hit so harshly that they turn away from gaming entirely.

I don't disagree with you on this point or on the matter of blacklisting players either.

As to the rest of your post?

I don't entirely agree with the intentions displayed in the rest of your post but think you have every right to your opinion.

 I'll be interested in seeing what DE implements.

  

[(PSN)drollive96]

9 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I honestly don’t get the point either. I never see region chat devolve into people spewing racial slurs. So being more authoritative in chat when there’s no reason to feels like it’s bound to bite them in the butt instead actually doing something beneficial.

People constantly get banned on ps4 for trying to say a certain word that begins with "n" on our region chat. I see it approximately every 10 minutes