The grind for Protea is BRUTAL

[Koga.]

On 2020-06-13 at 2:30 PM, Fenrys_Delta said:

I´ve done over 80 Granum Void runs, got parts to craft each weapons over 20 times, got several capturas and armor attachments but not a SINGLE Protea part has dropped.

Is this working as intended? It doesn´t seem like 11% drop rate.

I´m on my second day farming for this thing and will probably come empty handed again.

I took a break from the game after the railjack disapointment and just got back.

Seriously, this grind is not exactly convincing me to stick around.

*Laughs in getting her and all of the weapon parts in a blink of an Eye*

[Felsagger]

22 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

That would require it to take a considerable amount of time for the majority of players, which it never does. So if their revenue is based on that RNG, they rely on 1% or so of their playerbase, the most unlucky. 

If a company actually intends to cash in on their new "playable" releases they tend to go the PWE way, where you release something that is absurdly timegates, where a non-paying player needs about a year of daily grinding to buy it for the freely obtained premium cash of the game. WF and DE are far from that point since those with bad luck can just buy the frame straight up for traded plat. 

Not even prime access is a money maker based on the RNG obtainment of the frames since the price is just so high for it.

 

True, but it only takes a short amount of time for the grind to be a wall. Adults have responsibilities and full time jobs that takes 40 hours. If they are not working out of their house they have other compromises such as family's responsibility or time with their partners. They can't dedicate much time to video games, specially to a video game that asks for grind time. Hence DE capitalizes on that. The progression has time gates everywhere. 

The acquisition of a war frame requires four parts. Each part depends on a relic that has a drop chance. Once the relic is acquired the player needs to open it up while he refines it doing another run with pick up groups. After that he repeats the process four times for each pieces. Once all the pieces are in the player's possession then follows construction that requires resources and time. If the player has them, better, if not, he has to do grind time for them like Nitain for example. He has to repeat the process for the four pieces. Once  all the crafting is done then follows the time gate of two days for the acquisition of the complete War Frame. Given the War Frame completion, it requires a slot. The player must delete their old hardware or purchase a new slot for the War Frame. The same process applies to primaries, secondaries and melee weapons. 

Summing all those short times you get a considerable amount of time. The player who has a job can't have two jobs. He has the real job and the hobby. This hobby eats a lot of time, time that DE capitalize with the short cut of purchases with the platinum currency. 

That's how DE makes their money. This is very elementary. You should know this after the build of your first prime frame. Wait, do you play War Frame? 

 

 

[Felsagger]

5 minutes ago, Koga. said:

*Laughs in getting her and all of the weapon parts in a blink of an Eye*

Here is the proof Ervin about the use of Platinum as a short cut. 

 

Hence this is how DE makes their money. 

[Koga.]

2 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Here is the proof Ervin about the use of Platinum as a short cut. 

 

Hence this is how DE makes their money. 

*Laughs in never spending Shiiiiiii*

[Felsagger]

6 minutes ago, Koga. said:

*Laughs in never spending Shiiiiiii*

Because time is done farming and selling in the market. 

 

Concept here is "TIME". 

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

 

True, but it only takes a short amount of time for the grind to be a wall. Adults have responsibilities and full time jobs that takes 40 hours. If they are not working out of their house they have other compromises such as family's responsibility or time with their partners. They can't dedicate much time to video games, specially to a video game that asks for grind time. Hence DE capitalizes on that. The progression has time gates everywhere. 

The acquisition of a war frame requires four parts. Each part depends on a relic that has a drop chance. Once the relic is acquired the player needs to open it up while he refines it doing another run with pick up groups. After that he repeats the process four times for each pieces. Once all the pieces are in the player's possession then follows construction that requires resources and time. If the player has them, better, if not, he has to do grind time for them like Nitain for example. He has to repeat the process for the four pieces. Once  all the crafting is done then follows the time gate of two days for the acquisition of the complete War Frame. Given the War Frame completion, it requires a slot. The player must delete their old hardware or purchase a new slot for the War Frame. The same process applies to primaries, secondaries and melee weapons. 

Summing all those short times you get a considerable amount of time. The player who has a job can't have two jobs. He has the real job and the hobby. This hobby eats a lot of time, time that DE capitalize with the short cut of purchases with the platinum currency. 

That's how DE makes their money. This is very elementary. You should know this after the build of your first prime frame. Wait, do you play War Frame? 

 

 

On avarage a frame grind in WF takes one session composed of a few hours. Unless of course you have extremely bad luck or extremely good luck.

I see myself as the avarage "lucky" fellow, I havent had a single long frame or weapon grind in the game and I've had one extremely fast one, Hildryn that took me a whoopin 3 runs to get all parts plus the ephemera. While the game has time gates, it is nothing extreme, you arent locked out of doing things during the gate. This isnt like sitting down in an MMO and grinding 200+ weapons in a row in order to get a 95% roll on them, or spending hours physically infront of the screen to craft up a bunch of potions or grinding out crafting skills. Here we just boot up the foundry and that is that, then go on and do other stuff in the meantime.

I've spent less time worrying about crafting in WF than in any other game, since it is all so passive here. All other games I've had to plan ahead in order to craft since it may get in the way of other activities, like events, raiding, pvp, playing with friends, doing guild stuff or simply leveling or hunting other gear.

While primes take several steps, you can still obtain them for free through trading, which reduces the grind to just getting random prime parts and resources. The resources are also mostly obtained while you grind for a prime or frame in general. You also cannot and never could grind for nitain, it is and was a guaranteed drop, just from different sources between then and now. There are few things in WF you need to go out of your way to get when it comes to resources for frames and weapons. The most notable resource that is out of our way would be tellurium, it is also fairly slow to obtain early on. But the higher you get, the more of it you see in useful places, like Kuva Fortress where you get plenty of it passively as you grind for other things. Also, the whole point of WF is grinding resources to craft new items, so complaining about having to grind the resources is kinda uh... odd, when it is one of the reasons to play this game (and others in the genre).

edit: Also, you do not need to repeat the grind 4 times. The 4 parts of a frame includes the BP.

[Galuf]

I'm actually a bit pissed of that this update it as this point casual driven. Everything is almost handed to you instantly.

The protea + weapons grind has been balanced to take 3 hours on average with reasonnable chances of getting everything on a tier in 45mn then including the 3(on average) jackal kills, and it took me less than that. However with extreme bad luck it can go horribly wrong. 6% of the players had to farm the same part of more than 2 hour to get it. I'm assuming you take 4:30 to do the mission in my calculation, wich adequate, as it ensures coin refill and people derping to the exit. In an organised squad you can imagine abandonning if the reward is not wht you want to make the run 2mn instead of 4:30 in cases of failures.

I think that on mastery gain perspective, farming 2 weapons and a frame at once with such quicks mission is an historical low in terms of mastery gained/hour farmed... The drop rates are actually extremly generous.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

On avarage a frame grind in WF takes one session composed of a few hours. Unless of course you have extremely bad luck or extremely good luck.

Yes four hours is too much for any individual who works 40 hours, do house errands and attend a family. 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

I see myself as the avarage "lucky" fellow, I havent had a single long frame or weapon grind in the game and I've had one extremely fast one, Hildryn that took me a whoopin 3 runs to get all parts plus the ephemera. While the game has time gates, it is nothing extreme, you arent locked out of doing things during the gate. This isnt like sitting down in an MMO and grinding 200+ weapons in a row in order to get a 95% roll on them, or spending hours physically infront of the screen to craft up a bunch of potions or grinding out crafting skills. Here we just boot up the foundry and that is that, then go on and do other stuff in the meantime.

Yes, the extreme aspect is the amount of time gates that is summed throughout the items.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

I've spent less time worrying about crafting in WF than in any other game, since it is all so passive here. All other games I've had to plan ahead in order to craft since it may get in the way of other activities, like events, raiding, pvp, playing with friends, doing guild stuff or simply leveling or hunting other gear.

You do not have responsibilities of working 40 hours and attending house errands like maintenance, clothe cleaning and cooking. 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

While primes take several steps, you can still obtain them for free through trading, which reduces the grind to just getting random prime parts and resources. The resources are also mostly obtained while you grind for a prime or frame in general. You also cannot and never could grind for nitain, it is and was a guaranteed drop, just from different sources between then and now. There are few things in WF you need to go out of your way to get when it comes to resources for frames and weapons. The most notable resource that is out of our way would be tellurium, it is also fairly slow to obtain early on. But the higher you get, the more of it you see in useful places, like Kuva Fortress where you get plenty of it passively as you grind for other things. Also, the whole point of WF is grinding resources to craft new items, so complaining about having to grind the resources is kinda uh... odd, when it is one of the reasons to play this game (and others in the genre).

The problem of this game is that grinding is not fun. A game should be based on extrinsics instead of intrinsics. The same principle applies to The Last of Us 2. The game has the worst story ever, long boring traverse that seems like a tutorial and the player feels like he's constrained on rails Few hours the game is fun then it becomes a looting monotony of the worst kind. TLoU2 dropped extrinsic game play turning it into a boring activity. At this point War Frame feels like a triple A game. Even the best developers like ND rest in their laurels. 

Other games makes the emphasis on extrinsic game play. The game is fun to play. War Frame feels like a job. When that happens fun is relegated to a second plane. 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

edit: Also, you do not need to repeat the grind 4 times. The 4 parts of a frame includes the BP.

 

Out of curiosity, are you Swedish? 

[SneakyErvin]

48 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Yes four hours is too much for any individual who works 40 hours, do house errands and attend a family. 

Yes, the extreme aspect is the amount of time gates that is summed throughout the items.

You do not have responsibilities of working 40 hours and attending house errands like maintenance, clothe cleaning and cooking. 

The problem of this game is that grinding is not fun. A game should be based on extrinsics instead of intrinsics. The same principle applies to The Last of Us 2. The game has the worst story ever, long boring traverse that seems like a tutorial and the player feels like he's constrained on rails Few hours the game is fun then it becomes a looting monotony of the worst kind. TLoU2 dropped extrinsic game play turning it into a boring activity. At this point War Frame feels like a triple A game. Even the best developers like ND rest in their laurels. 

Other games makes the emphasis on extrinsic game play. The game is fun to play. War Frame feels like a job. When that happens fun is relegated to a second plane. 

 

Out of curiosity, are you Swedish? 

4 hours in one sitting may be, but 4 hours spread over a week isnt. Even if you have an abnormal job that consumes more than 40h per week. You dont have to get a frame directly if your time doesnt allow for it. 4 hours in gaming to achieve something is pretty much nothing, especially for this genre.

There is nothing extreme with the time gates since they dont actually consume anyones time. You dont have to sit there and wait for the time to tick. It is a superior system to normal crafting since it avoids RNG hours spent on doing practically nothing. You grind the mats, shove them in there and done. I've lost 0 hours in WF due to crafting, in SWG, DaoC, WoW, Black Desert and several other games I've lost hundreds of hours on practically nothing due to crafting systems. Just getting a 98% durability weapon/armor in DaoC was extremely time consuming and that was after you reached the correct crafting levels. Oh boy was it fun sitting in Vasudheim crafting a full set of armor and weapons. Well actually it was fun since it was kinda immersive.

Oh so now all of a sudden you know my life too Mr. Foreseer! I play WF very little at the moment due to family matters (cancer ridden father), so I speak from personal experience here regarding the latests grinds since I've experienced it all from both ends, having and not having time. NW, frame grinding and everything else is done in a matter of hours per week. Protea and all the weapons were obtained and sent to foundry cooking in a matter of hours the day I had spare time to sit down, which was the day after the release. My view hasnt changed a bit on the WF grind between the time I had endless hours to spend on the game compared to now when the time is far more limited. And when it comes to frames, that equals a couple of hours that needs to be put in every few months, it isnt like there is a new frame+weapons every single week either.

The "problem" of this game is that it is in a genre you clearly do not really enjoy. As you've said earlier, you havent played many arpgs since it isnt your cup of tea. You still want to change this game/genre into something it isnt. That isnt a problem of the game, that is a problem with your view on how things should be. Most people seek different games/genres for different fixes. Hence why I seek WF as my PvE grind game, doing some DoS2 playthroughs for solid story and tactics and PvP games for PvP. 

In this genre and in the subgenres that extrinsic thing does not apply. In other types of games sure, here and in other similar games, no. Take the game for what it is and which genre it belongs to, dont try and change the fundamentals, find other games instead that are built to have what you seek. Like turning a horde shooter into a tactical shooter, it will not be smart because the people that play it because it is a horde shooter and not a tactical shooter will leave. Different games, different genres, all there for different tastes, different fix needs and different people.

What if I am, what is that to you?

 

[Felsagger]

5 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

4 hours in one sitting may be, but 4 hours spread over a week isnt. Even if you have an abnormal job that consumes more than 40h per week. You dont have to get a frame directly if your time doesnt allow for it. 4 hours in gaming to achieve something is pretty much nothing, especially for this genre.

There is nothing extreme with the time gates since they dont actually consume anyones time. You dont have to sit there and wait for the time to tick. It is a superior system to normal crafting since it avoids RNG hours spent on doing practically nothing. You grind the mats, shove them in there and done. I've lost 0 hours in WF due to crafting, in SWG, DaoC, WoW, Black Desert and several other games I've lost hundreds of hours on practically nothing due to crafting systems. Just getting a 98% durability weapon/armor in DaoC was extremely time consuming and that was after you reached the correct crafting levels. Oh boy was it fun sitting in Vasudheim crafting a full set of armor and weapons. Well actually it was fun since it was kinda immersive.

Oh so now all of a sudden you know my life too Mr. Foreseer! I play WF very little at the moment due to family matters (cancer ridden father), so I speak from personal experience here regarding the latests grinds since I've experienced it all from both ends, having and not having time. NW, frame grinding and everything else is done in a matter of hours per week. Protea and all the weapons were obtained and sent to foundry cooking in a matter of hours the day I had spare time to sit down, which was the day after the release. My view hasnt changed a bit on the WF grind between the time I had endless hours to spend on the game compared to now when the time is far more limited.

The "problem" of this game is that it is in a genre you clearly do not really enjoy. As you've said earlier, you havent played many arpgs since it isnt your cup of tea. You still want to change this game/genre into something it isnt. That isnt a problem of the game, that is a problem with your view on how things should be. Most people seek different games/genres for different fixes. Hence why I seek WF as my PvE grind game, doing some DoS2 playthroughs for solid story and tactics and PvP games for PvP. 

In this genre and in the subgenres that extrinsic thing does not apply. In other types of games sure, here and in other similar games, no. Take the game for what it is and which genre it belongs to, dont try and change the fundamentals, find other games instead that are built to have what you seek. Like turning a horde shooter into a tactical shooter, it will not be smart because the people that play it because it is a horde shooter and not a tactical shooter will leave. Different games, different genres, all there for different tastes, different fix needs and different people.

What if I am, what is that to you?

 

 

You are making stupid posts on purpose. At least make the bait credible. 

 

Come on. You know that such premise is false. 

[dwqrf]

il y a 50 minutes, Felsagger a dit :

 grinding is not fun.

This is actually the fun part of Warframe. If you don"t like grind, as said above, then Warframe isn't for you. Even within the last two years, the grind was reduced A LOT because too many "casuals" complain about the time it take for them to drop stuff. I do understand it may be frustrating, but not everything can be given out. Sometimes, it takes, hours, days, weeks, month, or even years, to drop what you want in Warframe. And that's okay.

[Felsagger]

Just now, dwqrf said:

This is actually the fun part of Warframe. If you don"t like grind, as said above, then Warframe isn't for you. Even within the last two years, the grind was reduced A LOT because too many "casuals" complain about the time it take for them to drop stuff. I do understand it may be frustrating, but not everything can be given out. Sometimes, it takes, hours, days, weeks, month, or even years, to drop what you want in Warframe. And that's okay.

 

That's the developer problem. Grinding SHOULD BE FUN. Right now it isn't. 

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, Felsagger a dit :

 

That's the developer problem. Grinding SHOULD BE FUN. Right now it isn't. 

For me it is. For you it isn't. It's a point of view. If you can't make the grind easier and faster, maybe you can learn to be more patient and to expect less.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

4 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

 

That's the developer problem. Grinding SHOULD BE FUN. Right now it isn't. 

Seems like a pretty subjective statement.

 

5 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

This is actually the fun part of Warframe. If you don"t like grind, as said above, then Warframe isn't for you. Even within the last two years, the grind was reduced A LOT because too many "casuals" complain about the time it take for them to drop stuff. I do understand it may be frustrating, but not everything can be given out. Sometimes, it takes, hours, days, weeks, month, or even years, to drop what you want in Warframe. And that's okay.

Yea I farmed Gauss and it took more than 3 days but I had fun, personally.

[Felsagger]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Seems like a pretty subjective statement.

 

Improvement of enemy A.I. Variety of enemy types with different behaviors. Dynamics of the the level architecture instead of a static tile set with no interest. Unexpected boss encounters. 

 

Subjective? Well, I never knew that "mathematics and physics" of game design where a matter of subjectivity. 

 

 

[Felsagger]

12 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

For me it is. For you it isn't. It's a point of view. If you can't make the grind easier and faster, maybe you can learn to be more patient and to expect less.

 

I do meta builds for fun. But I don't have the right field to test them. See? 

[SneakyErvin]

56 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

You are making stupid posts on purpose. At least make the bait credible. 

 

Come on. You know that such premise is false. 

So I guess you imply that they actually consume time from people? How, when, where?

Do you sit and watch the time for 23 hours when you load up a forma or do you do other stuff in-game/elsewhere? Likely you do other things while crafting is in process. Go play some real games with crafting and come back to me regarding the time that WF "robs" you off when you craft. 

For someone that has never touched another arpg and likely never an MMO either you seem to have alot of ideas about systems you've never ever used outside of WF. You need experience with other crafting heavy games to even have the slightest idea of how little impact WF's "time gates" actually have.

edit: Another example for you. It takes less time to fully farm a frame in WF (prime or not) and craft it in the foundry than it took to fully farm a new hero in Marvel Heroes without ever needing to build it.

[Felsagger]

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

So I guess you imply that they actually consume time from people? How, when, where?

Do you sit and watch the time for 23 hours when you load up a forma or do you do other stuff in-game/elsewhere? Likely you do other things while crafting is in process. Go play some real games with crafting and come back to me regarding the time that WF "robs" you off when you craft. 

For someone that has never touched another arpg and likely never an MMO either you seem to have alot of ideas about systems you've never ever used outside of WF. You need experience with other crafting heavy games to even have the slightest idea of how little impact WF's "time gates" actually have.

edit: Another example for you. It takes less time to fully farm a frame in WF (prime or not) and craft it in the foundry than it took to fully farm a new hero in Marvel Heroes without ever needing to build it.

I play Monster Hunter world.

Besides, you are throwing away logic out of the window. 

 

Keep talking. 

[SneakyErvin]

2 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

I play Monster Hunter world.

Besides, you are throwing away logic out of the window. 

 

Keep talking. 

What does monster hunter world have to do with anything?

That isnt an arpg in the veins of WF or a horde looter, nor an MMO.

[Felsagger]

On 2020-06-21 at 9:02 PM, SneakyErvin said:

What does monster hunter world have to do with anything?

 

Quote

For someone that has never touched another arpg and likely never an MMO

Answering your previous post. Monster Hunter world is an ARPG. 

Quote

That isnt an arpg in the veins of WF or a horde looter, nor an MMO.

Moving the goalpost again? 

[ReaverKane]

I agree with OP, and what's worse, you get the damn shoulders all the time, and they don't stack... So just like the captura scenes, everytime you get one of those, you're effectively being awarded NOTHING.

[Bingotough]

The whole reason this thread is so long is because people fundamentally have a different view of what is reasonable. I work >40 hours a week and have 3 kids, do 100% of the morning routine with breakfast, making lunches and then care for them after school, so the most I get is about 90 mins a day for non-adulting activities.

With all that said, I don't mind that is takes a bit to get a new frame, prime or otherwise. Most are pretty simple, some are tough, but that dopamine hit when you get a missing part is sweet. I agree, the gameplay could be more exciting but then I don't grind the same mission for hours at a time. For ages I was doing 1x Saryn, maybe an Exploiter (Hlidryn), Grendel, NW, railjack, relic runs in Fortuna/Cetus, crack a few relics for Baro, etc.

Variety keeps it fresh and if you're bored, go do something else. Clearly the DE model is missing the mark for some people, but then if it came as easy as some seem to want then we'd all run out of content sooner and be out of the game, so my own take is a personalal desire for a quick grind doesn't align to that of the Developer and the majority of people who stay with WF are probably those who don't mind the grind so much. There's nothing that says it needs to be accessible to everybody.

[Aldain]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

What does monster hunter world have to do with anything?

Monster Hunter has a very bad habit of RNG saying "LOLNO" to a single rare part drop.

This is a similar issue to some of Warframe's drop tables, where something at a sub 10% drop rate can take what seems like hours for no good reason, no matter how fast you get at completing things you can be held back by that singular 3% roll for a Mantle.

The MH fanbase calls it the "Desire Sensor" where the more you want it the less it drops.

[Yamazuki]

5 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Subjective? Well, I never knew that "mathematics and physics" of game design where a matter of subjectivity. 

It's subjective because you're talking about what you enjoy. Enjoyment is a feeling, which has nothing to do with logic or math at all.

Logically speaking, better AI is meaningless when they die the moment they spawn, but somehow, you would find the mere fact they're better enjoyable; where as I would see it as a disappointing use of dev time. Even if they didn't die so quickly, my opinion would still remain unchanged because they still wouldn't be engaging. Games don't really just have better ai, they just have mechanics and attacks to avoid. So many "difficult" games for example have dumb ai, but they utilize their combat, whether that's having to manage resources, using blocks on melee, dodges that have limited use, or walking out of ground indicators. Warframe lacks mechanical difficulty from a combat perspective, and many things that even kill people have little to no warning other than melee infested.

Most of your other suggestions, I personally find entirely meaningless. I play Warframe because I actually enjoy it. If I wanted to play a game with all the other stuff you consistently say Warframe "needs" I would just be playing those other games instead. Warframe doesn't need any of those other things, DE just needs to get better at utilizing the game's combat. If they knew how to, they could actually create enemies that have clear roles, because as it stands, DE is really only able to make an enemy threatening by having them be immune to cc, abilities, and deal enough damage where you would die instantly without shield gate, and these attacks often don't have much warning; simply "better ai" doesn't fix this issue at all.

When it comes to grinding, DE just needs to stop being lazy by constantly hiding things behind random drop chances. Given the use of reputation and token system elsewhere, there's really no reason why there just can't be a mixture of both. This way you either grind it out normally and get lucky, or you just get it guaranteed after spending x amount of time. When it comes to grinding, it doesn't matter how "fun" the game is, there's never going to be anything fun for most people in running the same exact mission 100+ times back to back. 

 

[Felsagger]

10 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

It's subjective because you're talking about what you enjoy. Enjoyment is a feeling, which has nothing to do with logic or math at all.

A.I behavior is not subjectivity. The Grineer has military accuracy or doesn't. A.I. behavior is not implemented in the game. If I enjoy higher difficulty then such discussion gravitates under subjectivity. 

Level design justifies the use of some War Frames in particular and improve or help enemy A.I. Makes the player be aware of more situations happening at once. If I enjoy hectic encounters or not then such claim is subjective. 

The way I solve differential equations and think about the isoclines or level curves are based on the existence and uniqueness theorems that guarantees solutions on a certain class of differential equations. It is subjective how I think the process but is not subjective the rigor needed to obtain the solutions. 

10 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

Logically speaking, better AI is meaningless when they die the moment they spawn, but somehow, you would find the mere fact they're better enjoyable;

That though is incomplete. For A.I. behavior you need to remove outliers or give enemies some sort of contingency or resistance against Saryn spores, the sphere that protects Limbo or any other crowd control mechanics. 

10 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

 

where as I would see it as a disappointing use of dev time. Even if they didn't die so quickly, my opinion would still remain unchanged because they still wouldn't be engaging. Games don't really just have better ai, they just have mechanics and attacks to avoid. So many "difficult" games for example have dumb ai, but they utilize their combat, whether that's having to manage resources, using blocks on melee, dodges that have limited use, or walking out of ground indicators. Warframe lacks mechanical difficulty from a combat perspective, and many things that even kill people have little to no warning other than melee infested.

DE never worked on a serious A.I. Improvement. This is why some of the farming and grinding are boring and shoddy to say the least. 

10 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

Most of your other suggestions, I personally find entirely meaningless.

This is a good example of subjectivity. 

10 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

 

I play Warframe because I actually enjoy it. If I wanted to play a game with all the other stuff you consistently say Warframe "needs" I would just be playing those other games instead.

I have those other games. That's why I play them. 

10 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

 

Warframe doesn't need any of those other things, DE just needs to get better at utilizing the game's combat. If they knew how to, they could actually create enemies that have clear roles, because as it stands, DE is really only able to make an enemy threatening by having them be immune to cc, abilities, and deal enough damage where you would die instantly without shield gate, and these attacks often don't have much warning; simply "better ai" doesn't fix this issue at all.

Their game development seems more oriented toward a phone game other than a full fledged game that uses moderate complexity in the game play mechanics. 

 

10 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

When it comes to grinding, DE just needs to stop being lazy by constantly hiding things behind random drop chances. Given the use of reputation and token system elsewhere, there's really no reason why there just can't be a mixture of both. This way you either grind it out normally and get lucky, or you just get it guaranteed after spending x amount of time. When it comes to grinding, it doesn't matter how "fun" the game is, there's never going to be anything fun for most people in running the same exact mission 100+ times back to back. 

 

True. 

 

In this paragraph we are on the same page.