A fustrating game for new players

[-SoH-ViktorD]

So let me give some back story. I am MR19 (been playing since 2017, slowed down once I hit MR15) and I really didn't notice how lack luster of directions there are for new players, especially older age wise who don't know about wikipedia, and how to look this stuff up.

I have had the upmost pleasure of taking two players who are roughly my parents age (mid 60's) and helped them learn the game from scratch. I see people all the time on the forums say "I am getting my friends into it and they just get overwhelmed and quit" I think I made a list today that might help some vets help new players.

I have 2 new players, who had 1 melt down due to being MR4 at the time, and seen all the grind that was ahead of them. Here's what I did in steps to make it easy to follow.

Step 1) Sit them both down in voice chat, listen to their concerns.

Step 2) Both of them had the same concerns (grinding warframes, grinding weapons, what weapon to keep what warframe to keep how to mod etc), so what I did (and still do) is take it one day at a time with them. Explain 1 thing day in and day out until they understand how it works.

Step 3) Tell them to clear the star chart before they worry about Cetus and Fortuna (and any future expansion as this stuff has stressed them out, about getting standing)

Step 4) Once they clear the star chart, help them with mods and forma-ing stuff. Explain where to find builds, and what mods are good and why, and why certain builds are better then others, but you can always add mods you like more (like I throw umbrial vitality on Wisp and a few other tanky mods that I like. and she survives mot for a few hours solo)

Step 5) Be active with them, take their concerns into thought, think about how you are going to plan the next day with them. I was (and still am) a solo player, I figured a lot out on my own, and almost quit the game but stuck with it cause I liked the challenge of it.

Always take time, break the game down piece by piece, don't drag them along with you through your sorties when they can't kill level 30 enemies yet. That will just piss them off.

[-SoH-ViktorD]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)DOMPATRIOT said:

For the average player too...

I was an average player when I first started, worked roughly 60h weeks, came home to play for an hr or two, then sleep. But today it all just clicked when someone said all 8 of his friends he brought into the game quit, and I thought about what I been doing to keep these two older gentlemen from getting so pissed off they quit, and I wanted to share what I been doing for the past month or so that I known these men.

I don't want to see someone suffer like I did, where I was at sedna, weapons unmodded, unforma'd, and hardly making the end of the mission. All because the game doesn't explain mods for squat, or formas.

Edited June 16, 2020 by -SoH-ViktorD

[Tesseract7777]

I am working on something to post in fan concepts, ideas to streamline the new player experience. 

It CAN be done. The devs can make this a game way more friendly for new players to get to where they can hang with us. 

The bottom line, the tl;dr version is though, at least get them one basic of everything to get them started, and make the syndicates a little easier to farm (there are so many available early game now).

As a veteran, getting a railjack wasn't much work, but if a new player was enticed by that, they will be turned off by the grind.

Simple solutions are to do things that help them through better. For example, once they find a railjack part, have a sabotage or spy mission or something that guarantees them the credits and resources to build the next piece. At least hold their hand more until they have one of everything. 

Then they can do all optional quests, finish syndicates, try out all the different weapons and frames and all the varieties of content and mission types to their hearts content, without feeling they will never get to be a part of everything. 

[(XBOX)ALTBOULI]

Yup I can relate, found the game and all the concepts daunting when I first started but I was lucky enough to have people on my friends list who had been playing for a while and helped me with basic mods as well as explaining concepts.

I have since tried to get other friends to play WF but they simply last a few hours then quit. Too much information overload, you have to be fairly committed to stick with the game especially the first few days.

 

[OwlOfJune]

The worst part is they DO have guides and tutorials, but all of those are scattered into tips, junctions, quests, small text hidden behind a popup that is hard to get, so results in unhelpful confusing mess. They need to give up a little on being 'very fancy and much mysterious' vibe a bit and just put a short essay of basic guide video after Vor's Quest, always accessible from Codex.

[Kaleeiv]

your point 3 is unnecessary

You can clear the Cetus and Fortuna quests very soon with a few mods in your weapons (which you have to put there during the tutorial to continue btw), and start getting 2000-3000 daily standing there or there shooting kuakas, buy the fishing rod, the capture gun, and the mining tool in Fortuna so you can get easy daily standing without even doing bounties and slowly collect mats for the archwing launcher that is sitting in your forge inventory when you first activate it. Also NW will ask for those, it's always better to already have the standing to buy the necessary tools.

The archwing launcher crafting is the question for a lot of new players in the chat and for me it was my first ultimate goal once i had seen others fly around. And the hooverboard: Nice surprise getting this while waiting until MR5 for the archwing launcher.

As a new player coming mostly from RPGs, it was the part i understood the most easily actually, and it was a nice introduction to standing in general.

better teach them how to craft Restores for ammo and energy because it's what is lacking at low level and their scarcity is the only difficulty to clear those early solo mission, or some specters like Valkyr.

Also the npcs are talking a lot saying all what is necessary, but as a beginner you cant listen, being solicited by all the new information on your screen and your ears and trying controls.
They need to go there expecting to maybe fail and do better next try armed with a bit more of awareness. 

Cetus and Fortuna can provide a nice change of pace when you're overwhelmed on the star chart, the graphics are awesome, i'm not sure why you would want to keep them from that until they find the content here trivial.

 

 

 

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

I don't know if it's a good suggestion at all, but what if we just gave new players access to the simulacrum early, making sure to direct them via in game prompts or something, with another prompt explaining this is where they can go to test various mods and builds and frames? 

When I was new I wanted a place to try stuff without having to die. I felt deterred from simaris standing at the time cause I didn't have a stealth frame and jus staying alive to scan wasnt gonna happen lol.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

Oh they also need to get rid of flawed mods....like what the heck. Endo is super rare in game until arbys and by then it'll be too late lol.

[(XBOX)Sumosan13]

Devil's advocate here.

I just got my day 750 login reward (missed some time though playing other games).  I'm 99% solo and taught myself the game via YouTube and Google.  I'm MR28 (54k from 29) and only duo with one friend of mine sometimes.

When I get stuck, I read, watch and learn.  Not that hard if you like the gameplay.

 

Edit:  Corrected MR info

Edited June 17, 2020 by (XB1)Sumosan13

[Zectico]

Frustrating is an understatement.

Fun fact: the tutorial teaches players how to spend platinum before they learn about modding and crafting.

Imagine learning about the wonders of premium currency, then seeing an arsenal full of weapons costing platinum.

The new-player-experience plays like a mobile game.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

24 minutes ago, Zectico said:

Frustrating is an understatement.

Fun fact: the tutorial teaches players how to spend platinum before they learn about modding and crafting.

Imagine learning about the wonders of premium currency, then seeing an arsenal full of weapons costing platinum.

The new-player-experience plays like a mobile game.

I was capable enough of hovering the mouse and already saw the credits under the plat price, but yea, some people get excited and dont fully read through, sure.

DE changed the menu to be easier to read, I believe, so theres not really an excuse now.

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

I'll be honest, when I started it took me a lot of time to figure out everything, think it may have been couple months. Even with the help of friends who tried the help explain stuff.

And that was back then when we didn't even have majority of the content that we have now.

 

Yeah this game surely could use more tutorial type stuff that's more obvious and easy to find.

But if there's one important thing that needs to be said to newcomers it is to take your time with learning stuff in this game, there's so much stuff in it that's impossible to learn it all at once.

[MetalGrayFox]

This post is a good poster for how much the game relies on older players to carry the game for them. If people like OP did not exist, this game would actually be dead. Waiting on the day DE changes this player-intern system so new people do not have to be babied through things in the beginning #soontm

[(NSW)FlameDivinity]

Whenever I have my brother over, I can't go 10 minutes of him playing this game without a symphony of basic questions to game fails to provide answers for. I was the same with my former roommate, and you could tell I was testing his patience, just as my brother does mine. And it's not his fault the game doesn't teach people how to play it. It doesn't give you jack diddly squat. I honestly hope the new player experience is DE's TOP PRIORITY and not some stupid fancy new skin or useless weapon. The game needs a rework and not more content shoving the broken frame (pun intended) under the rug. And the new player experience is, with common sense, most vital. I love what I see with the latest tileset and jackal rework, but that needs to be handed over to a small dedicated team while the majority of DE works on making this game playable for new players.

[Hypernaut1]

Warframe is the kind of game you need to be motivated to play. If you don't want to look up wikis, then this game isn't going to work for you. I wouldn't ever try to convince someone to play this, if they already want to quit. 

I find that the difficult beginning serves as a filter of some sort. If you're easily flustered, then it's best you quit. You have to treat Warframe as a sandbox to enjoy it. You do what you can and overtime learn new things when it's relevant to you. 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Hypernaut1

[Softballbryan]

21 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

I don't know if it's a good suggestion at all, but what if we just gave new players access to the simulacrum early, making sure to direct them via in game prompts or something, with another prompt explaining this is where they can go to test various mods and builds and frames? 

When I was new I wanted a place to try stuff without having to die. I felt deterred from simaris standing at the time cause I didn't have a stealth frame and jus staying alive to scan wasnt gonna happen lol.

That’s a good idea...

[Softballbryan]

21 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Oh they also need to get rid of flawed mods....like what the heck. Endo is super rare in game until arbys and by then it'll be too late lol.

I agree. I got trapped into that when I started Playing. Or let me pour the upgraded flawed mod into the unflawed mod later. 

[Softballbryan]

On 2020-06-16 at 3:25 PM, -SoH-ViktorD said:

So let me give some back story. I am MR19 (been playing since 2017, slowed down once I hit MR15) and I really didn't notice how lack luster of directions there are for new players, especially older age wise who don't know about wikipedia, and how to look this stuff up.

I have had the upmost pleasure of taking two players who are roughly my parents age (mid 60's) and helped them learn the game from scratch. I see people all the time on the forums say "I am getting my friends into it and they just get overwhelmed and quit" I think I made a list today that might help some vets help new players.

I have 2 new players, who had 1 melt down due to being MR4 at the time, and seen all the grind that was ahead of them. Here's what I did in steps to make it easy to follow.

Step 1) Sit them both down in voice chat, listen to their concerns.

Step 2) Both of them had the same concerns (grinding warframes, grinding weapons, what weapon to keep what warframe to keep how to mod etc), so what I did (and still do) is take it one day at a time with them. Explain 1 thing day in and day out until they understand how it works.

Step 3) Tell them to clear the star chart before they worry about Cetus and Fortuna (and any future expansion as this stuff has stressed them out, about getting standing)

Step 4) Once they clear the star chart, help them with mods and forma-ing stuff. Explain where to find builds, and what mods are good and why, and why certain builds are better then others, but you can always add mods you like more (like I throw umbrial vitality on Wisp and a few other tanky mods that I like. and she survives mot for a few hours solo)

Step 5) Be active with them, take their concerns into thought, think about how you are going to plan the next day with them. I was (and still am) a solo player, I figured a lot out on my own, and almost quit the game but stuck with it cause I liked the challenge of it.

Always take time, break the game down piece by piece, don't drag them along with you through your sorties when they can't kill level 30 enemies yet. That will just piss them off.

You are a nice player to assist others so thank you. I’m an older player but have been playing games a long time so I wasn’t as intimidated in the mountain that laid ahead. You’re suggestions will work in many areas of life. Define the situation, make a list, accomplish one item at a time on the list. 
 

PC IGN: Softballbryan

[Zimzala]

I am not against having more improvement for new players to learn things.

However, l really don't think it's nessasary for the games survival, nor do I thik it would actually retain players.

Based on the anecdote presented, the new player would just learn sooner there is a long path to the 'end' and leave, for example.

Part of WF is the research and the learning curve. TBH, it's what keeps gamer like me interested.

I hate games that want to hold my hand and treat me like a child.

I adore the idea you are thrown into WF and it's world with about the same amount of information the Tenno you play would have when just 'awakening' and that you have to figure it out yourself, like life.

Could things be improved? Fo sho.

Will it magically retain players? I doubt it.

[Hokibukisa]

For me the biggest problem was not having access to critical mods and arcanes.

Once you have access to the critical stuff you stop thinking about them, but when you don't have them the game can be extremely frustrating.

Or worse, when you're struggling with something that you aren't even aware of something else being able to help with.

I wouldn't be surprised if most players stopped playing due to constantly being out of energy.

"This, is Mag. Mag doesn't do sh*t because Mag does not have energy." -dies-

Compared to when players learn about and obtain energizing dash and arcane energize, and the game completely changes.

And getting access to weapons that are great at topping off heath, and operator arcanes that can heal everyone to full in 2 seconds.

There is so much time investment involved in just getting to the point of adequate resource management, I imagine that is the point at which people decide to stick with the game in the long run, vs getting frustrated and leaving.

[HoustonDragon]

 

[Zimzala]

12 minutes ago, Hokibukisa said:

For me the biggest problem was not having access to critical mods and arcanes.

Once you have access to the critical stuff you stop thinking about them, but when you don't have them the game can be extremely frustrating.

Or worse, when you're struggling with something that you aren't even aware of something else being able to help with.

I wouldn't be surprised if most players stopped playing due to constantly being out of energy.

"This, is Mag. Mag doesn't do sh*t because Mag does not have energy." -dies-

Compared to when players learn about and obtain energizing dash and arcane energize, and the game completely changes.

And getting access to weapons that are great at topping off heath, and operator arcanes that can heal everyone to full in 2 seconds.

There is so much time investment involved in just getting to the point of adequate resource management, I imagine that is the point at which people decide to stick with the game in the long run, vs getting frustrated and leaving.

What you outline here is, IMO, simply learning to play the game.

I have no powerful Arcanes, for example, and do just fine. (I think I have one that helps keep my companion alive, that's it)

When I struggle, I experiment and check the wiki.

I take the time to run the mission with different Mod configurations, etc., until I find the sweet spot for the things I own.

Once I discovered Mods are really 'the thing', I simply focused on acquiring them, IMO, just a part of learning the game.

I had adequate resource management, from my POV, very early and as I stated, I don't use Arcanes for it.

What I see are players that a are 'trained' and 'used to' 'rushing to the end game' to hang out with the other players and that thing does not exist here.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Zimzala
speeling

[BroKein]

GOOGLE IT GOOGLE IT AND GOOGLE IT. The fact that De wasnt able to deliver any good tutorial in game till now well just telling us there never will be any good one. But honestly if you spend some times reading wiki or watching tutorial you get way better idea how things work then any tutorial will offer you.

 

This is not a personal attack on DE 🙂 this is just fact

Edited June 17, 2020 by BroKein

[(XBOX)Sumosan13]

40 minutes ago, (PS4)JohnWickHitman said:

I'm sorry, but if your answer to New players is:

 

Google It

YouToober it

 

You are the problem with this game. Yes, DE should have done better. But being an elitist ___le isn't cool either.

 

OP and a couple of players I recently met are TRUE players IMO. They ACTUALLY help, explain things, and a couple even went far enough to offer excess items for nothing just to help out.

 

What did you do??

 

Google it

YouToober it

Let me scam you with overpriced items....

 

Get out of here with that bs elitism. Your kind are not needed in game!

You actually ruin it more than DE ever could!

 

/rant

So self-educating, self-reliance is elitism?  Better we rant and cry that no one is holding our junk and guiding us through it with all details sprawled out on a silver platter?

C'mon now.  There's only so much a developer can do.  There's a billion mechanics incorporated in Warframe and new stuff plus changes being added quite often.  If the tutorial included a spoon-fed description of every mechanic, it would be a whole game in itself and with the constant updates, absorb a ton of dev time.

I got enough out of the tutorial to get going BY MYSELF and taught myself the rest...so that is elite?  Cool!  I'm elite...i guess?

[Zimzala]

59 minutes ago, (PS4)JohnWickHitman said:

/rant

I love the you spout off this whole 'Ima play my way' and then tell others they are doing it wrong.

It's kind of cute, really.