Being Overpowered is Good and Nerfs are Bad.

[Tesseract7777]

29 minutes ago, (NSW)JJA209 said:

If I get to mr30 then I’d hope that this would be my reward. Please  DE you must make this happen for mr30 players.

I may never be completionist enough to get to MR30, but I've always thought the perfect reward to not be gamebreaking but reward the time and effort of people who spent all that time to get to MR30, would be to make it so when you forma something, it starts at R30. You still have to rank it up once though to get that mastery in the beginning, and MR 31, 32+ etc players. could start future lich weapons (obvious MR30'+s would have mastered all the grineer ones already), that have already been ranked up once, at 31, 32 or whatever MR you are after you use a forma. 

 

[ebrl]

4 minutes ago, Highresist said:

DE have no clue how to balance difficulty and player power. It's been 7 years, you would think one of the devs would have realized what they are doing wrong, that Grinding gears are doing right, but nope... DE are balancing the game around popularity rather than power, meaning they have no idea why certain setups are being used. I'm willing to bet that they don't know about the Eidolon meta, because the warframes used there are not popular in general gameplay, so they have no clue 90% of the setups are useless for that content.

True in every aspect, but the Warframe playerbase and the Path of Exile playerbase are extremely different. If DE started shaking up the meta every few months the way GGG tends to do, their retention rate would implode.

[ReaverKane]

9 hours ago, Alkarnus said:

I think this is where most people who bothered arguing would argue. Modding your gear right through investing forma and time is simply grinding at an exp farm node of your choice. There is no "challenge". However, I do enjoy being powerful and if I want some so-called challenge, I simply go play other games. Here's the kicker: a "challenge" has different meanings for different people.

Not being a challenge doesn't mean it isn't work. In fact the fact that it makes it boring is more work. OP didn't talk about challenge, he talked about work.
OP DOES have a point, DE goes out of their way to make things take a long time to farm, then tones down everything that takes time to grind so that those that don't invest time don't feel left out.
Its a schizophrenic approach that makes no sense. They expect us to grind like crazy, but then they don't respect the time investment. And of course, you and others like you must have married or inherited a sizeable fortune, since you don't seem to value time expenditure. My time costs money, and more and more, i see that investment being disrespected by DE, and i spend less and less time with the game.

[Oreades]

My opinion is that what people strive for in balance is impossible in a game that both does not have player scaling AND pushes endless infinitely enemy scaling mission types. 

They are mutually exclusive especially when DE is also trying to not trivialize everything that isn't lvl 200+ which is not found anywhere in the course of normal gameplay. 

They keep trying to rework things like boss fights because of the total lack of player scaling but refuse to bite the bullet and go in the only direction that actually solves the problem. Tho..... there is an inherent issue with player scaling in that they would run the risk of everything feeling samey. If they weren't careful everything would end up feeling too samey.

So instead we get things like the Steel Path that amount to kicking the can down the road.

[Krankbert]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb ReaverKane:

Not being a challenge doesn't mean it isn't work. In fact the fact that it makes it boring is more work. OP didn't talk about challenge, he talked about work.
OP DOES have a point, DE goes out of their way to make things take a long time to farm, then tones down everything that takes time to grind so that those that don't invest time don't feel left out.
Its a schizophrenic approach that makes no sense. They expect us to grind like crazy, but then they don't respect the time investment. And of course, you and others like you must have married or inherited a sizeable fortune, since you don't seem to value time expenditure. My time costs money, and more and more, i see that investment being disrespected by DE, and i spend less and less time with the game.

That makes no sense. This is a video game. If you had fun playing, your time wasn't wasted. If you don't have fun playing, you should quit whether you feel "respected" by DE or not.

[bibmobello]

1 minute ago, Krankbert said:

That makes no sense. This is a video game. If you had fun playing, your time wasn't wasted. If you don't have fun playing, you should quit whether you feel "respected" by DE or not.

Hey even being drunk it's a good way to waste its own time, that doesn't means it's a good thing.

[Krankbert]

Gerade eben schrieb bibmobello:

Hey even being drunk it's a good way to waste its own time, that doesn't means it's a good thing.

If you play this game like an alcholic drinks alcohol, you should also quit this game. What's your point?

[killerJoke66]

3 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:

Not being a challenge doesn't mean it isn't work. In fact the fact that it makes it boring is more work. OP didn't talk about challenge, he talked about work.
OP DOES have a point, DE goes out of their way to make things take a long time to farm, then tones down everything that takes time to grind so that those that don't invest time don't feel left out.
Its a schizophrenic approach that makes no sense. They expect us to grind like crazy, but then they don't respect the time investment. And of course, you and others like you must have married or inherited a sizeable fortune, since you don't seem to value time expenditure. My time costs money, and more and more, i see that investment being disrespected by DE, and i spend less and less time with the game.

Perfectly put , also this phenomenon of 'nerfing the most popular stuff' leads to players with more than half brain into not farming said 'will receive a nerf soon' weapons/frames  so that  there is always a fear factor of something you invest your time on gets dumped on , 

and believe that leaves a bad taste with overall feeling on the game .

As someone has said earlier that DE don't nerf stuff that is overpowered and slips under radar but rather popular stuff that clears 50 level enemies fast .. anything clears these fast 

[bibmobello]

Just now, Krankbert said:

If you play this game like an alcholic drinks alcohol, you should also quit this game. What's your point?

How many hours do you have in this game?

[Krankbert]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb killerJoke66:

this phenomenon of 'nerfing the most popular stuff'

Imagine being so bad at the game that you think they nerf stuff for being popular because you don't understand on any level why certain things are more popular than others.

  

vor 1 Minute schrieb bibmobello:

How many hours do you have in this game?

Not nearly as many as you. What's your point?

[bibmobello]

3 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

Imagine being so bad at the game that you think they nerf stuff for being popular because you don't understand on any level why certain things are more popular than others.

  

Not nearly as many as you. What's your point?

The point is clear  but probably i will be banned definitively if i write that here...

[killerJoke66]

6 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

Imagine being so bad at the game that you think they nerf stuff for being popular because you don't understand on any level why certain things are more popular than others.

weird personal attack but whatever .. you do you salty 

they mostly nerf stuff when it is trivializing the game too much yes i know that , what they dont consider is that even without any weapons most frames also triviliazes 50 levels(or whatever the casuals playing their fissure missions) with absolute no issue whatsoever. So they actually never touch on the real issues but rather scrap whats on the surface level for minimal work .

[Krankbert]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb bibmobello:

The point is clear  but probably i will be banned definitively if i wrote that there...

If you're going to insult someone because you can't contribute anything else to the conversation, you could at least have the balls to actually do it.

  

Gerade eben schrieb killerJoke66:

they mostly nerf stuff when it is trivializing the game too much yes i know that , 

For someone who allegedly knows that, you sure keep saying the exact opposite.

  

vor 8 Minuten schrieb killerJoke66:

As someone has said earlier that DE don't nerf stuff that is overpowered and slips under radar but rather popular stuff that clears 50 level enemies fast .. anything clears these fast 

If you were in my shoes and met someone who kept saying one thing to push his agenda and then later openly admitted that he knew all along that that thing was not true at all, what would you think?

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

5 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

Imagine being so bad at the game that you think they nerf stuff for being popular because you don't understand on any level why certain things are more popular than others.

Lmao. You’ll never get through to these types of players but I applaud you for trying.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

11 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

That makes no sense. This is a video game. If you had fun playing, your time wasn't wasted. If you don't have fun playing, you should quit whether you feel "respected" by DE or not.

Eh... Someone has fun fighting Kela de Thaym but doesn't need her drops at all it could count as time wasted for that person.

I don't have fun farming some stuff but it's not time wasted since I'm getting something I want

[killerJoke66]

@Krankbert Tell me how these two sentences any conflicting , i want a well constructed answer. 

1- they mostly nerf stuff when it is trivializing the game too much yes i know that , 
2 - As someone has said earlier that DE don't nerf stuff that is overpowered and slips under radar but rather popular stuff that clears 50 level enemies fast .. anything clears these fast 

[killerJoke66]

1 minute ago, (XB1)C11H22O11 said:

Eh... Someone has fun fighting Kela de Thaym but doesn't need her drops at all it could count as time wasted for that person.

I don't have fun farming some stuff but it's not time wasted since I'm getting something I want

wait till someone tells you in this forum that youre just one of those only caring for the shinny carrot on a stick . 😆 Its one of their go-to's 

[Krankbert]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb killerJoke66:

@Krankbert Tell me how these two sentences any conflicting , i want well constructed answer. 

1- they mostly nerf stuff when it is trivializing the game too much yes i know that , 
2 - As someone has said earlier that DE don't nerf stuff that is overpowered and slips under radar but rather popular stuff that clears 50 level enemies fast .. anything clears these fast 

"They nerf stuff that is trivializing the game too much" is conflicting with the statement "they nerf popular stuff that clears level 50 enemies fast even though anything clears these fast" because of how they mean the complete oppopsite. Either they nerf stuff that is trivializing the game too much or they nerf stuff that is popular and clears trivial enemies as fast as anything else. I don't know what to tell you.

And of course they don't nerf stuff that slips under the radar. If they nerfed it, it wouldn't have slipped under the radar. That's what "slipping under the radar" means. That's not an insight, that's a tautology.

[killerJoke66]

6 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

trivializing the game too much

they nerf stuff that is popular

and

clears trivial enemies as fast as anything else. 

those 3 are the exact same thing except the ones that get nerfed receives popularity for the sake of 2 seconds less finish timer in a public mission . Are you now happy that i just added an extra explanation that you could've figured out yourself ?  Do i really need to spoonfeed you for the reason why im saying the things they nerf mostly are the same EXCEPT they do stuff faster for low level contend A TAD faster than the other options but those options are just as busted as the nerfed stuff yet theyre not popular so it goes under radar and not gets the nerf bat  . are you satisfied now ? 

[Krankbert]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb killerJoke66:

those 3 are the exact same thing

They're clearly not. Maybe this is a communication problem because English isn't your first language, but I really don't see a point in continuing this non-discussion either way.

[killerJoke66]

@Krankbert i just explained , its up to your cognitive functionality to get it or not , no further replies to a troll. and i explained it very carefully as well.

[ReaverKane]

12 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

That makes no sense. This is a video game. If you had fun playing, your time wasn't wasted. If you don't have fun playing, you should quit whether you feel "respected" by DE or not.

Have you played Warframe?
"Fun" comes in many ways, And a lot of the times, especially in video games, is less about the journey, and more about the destination.
Warframe is one of those games, you have to do repetitive nonsense over and over for a reward, and more often than not, that reward is losing meaning with each iteration of the game.

 

11 minutes ago, killerJoke66 said:

Perfectly put , also this phenomenon of 'nerfing the most popular stuff' leads to players with more than half brain into not farming said 'will receive a nerf soon' weapons/frames  so that  there is always a fear factor of something you invest your time on gets dumped on , 

and believe that leaves a bad taste with overall feeling on the game .

As someone has said earlier that DE don't nerf stuff that is overpowered and slips under radar but rather popular stuff that clears 50 level enemies fast .. anything clears these fast 

Its not that they nerf the popular stuff.. Is that stuff becomes popular because it works better than other stuff. And a good way to see that is with how popular it is.
They're not entirely wrong in how they identify the problem. What they should improve is how they handle it.
Like, yeah Catchmoon was becoming a "catch-all" (pun not intended) weapon, because it did everything right, it had a good range, a good area of effect and a great damage. All this meant that it could almost compete with melee weapons. Same with the Braama.

And then there's stuff like Khora, Saryn, etc. Which are deemed overpowered, while they are actually the best balanced warframes in the game, in some ways. Because they can do something all warframes should be able to do, and that is scale. I mean if the enemies constantly scale, no matter how high your initial power level is, it will go *poof* sooner or later (good example of this is  Resonating Quake Banshee, or old Ember), and only those few warframes that have synergies that allow you to either reduce the enemy scaling or scale with the enemies will be viable. This is why Saryn is so great for ESO, because her spores can scale and keep her killing with high efficiency, which very few other warframes can do past wave 6-8.

But the thing is, that DE fails to recognize the pattern. Those examples are just symptoms of a broader issue. DE doesn't really know what they want us to do with out time, basically, they haven't figured out the "end-game", what it results is that players create their own "end-game" and one of the aspects of this, is min-maxing stuff to ridiculousness, to the point that regardless of what you throw at it, we'll breeze through content. And this is why every time DE tries to do something "hard" they need to go to ridiculous lengths to attempt it (just look at Arbitrations, and Steel Path, how much stuff they had to throw in to make them kind of almost challenging). But those hoops they make us jump, rarely come with a proportional reward, barely any, in Steel Path, which is also an issue with Warframe, that is growing more and more apparent.

And of course, we'll always identify the synergies that DE doesn't, because we have thousands of minds working on that problem, while DE only can devote a fraction of their couple hundred employees to it. Sometimes those synergies should simply be eliminated.
Other times they should be embraced and improved upon (like the whole bullet jump thing coming from a kind of "exploit" we could do with melee weapons). But when it comes to balance, DE only go the simple and unrewarding route of nerfs.
Instead of recognizing the bigger issue, and working on it, they nerf it or create some patchwork solution. (For example the Xoris brought into attention issues with the combo system being linked with heavy attacks, and instead of reworking that system, they created exceptions which will bite their ass so much internally, since now every time they want to do something simmilar to the Xoris, they'll always have to be manually adding to those exceptions, while if they did a deep rework of the heavy attacks and combo system, it would benefit everyone and create more build diversity). Of course these approaches just make the game worse to manage internally, and less fun for us. But, luckily there seems to be some internal momentum gathering to affect these changes more deeply. Like the "Warframe Revisited" patches. Too bad their process doesn't work things out properly in the first place and we have to endure poor systems for years before they revisit them...

[Krankbert]

Gerade eben schrieb ReaverKane:

Have you played Warframe?
"Fun" comes in many ways, And a lot of the times, especially in video games, is less about the journey, and more about the destination.
Warframe is one of those games, you have to do repetitive nonsense over and over for a reward, and more often than not, that reward is losing meaning with each iteration of the game.

Yes. Have you? Because I get the impression that you only ever worked in Warframe.

[bibmobello]

9 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

Yes. Have you? Because I get the impression that you only ever worked in Warframe.

I try to make you understand what people is trying to  write here, after that  i will just mark all your replies as spam.

This is how in a normal game the difficulty increases with your experience:

 

this is the WF way:

 

[Krankbert]

Gerade eben schrieb bibmobello:

I try to make you understand what people is trying to  write here, after that  i will just mark all your replies as spam.

I'm actually pretty sure that every game I've ever played has gotten easier with experience and not harder. I can't think of one where I've gotten worse as I've gotten more experienced.