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On 2020-09-13 at 4:30 PM, DatDarkOne said:

edit: as for the breaking the game part, that shouldn't happen unless you have a low amount of ram.  Like 4gigs or lower.  Having 8 gigs or more and you can pretty much safely go without a pagefile at all in most situations.  

Previously I would have agreed with that statement and I did run without a page file for many years on my previous laptop (8GB RAM, discrete graphics, Windows 7). On my slightly newer laptop running Windows 10 I discovered that I couldn't get into the open worlds (PoE or OV) with the page file disabled (8GB RAM, integrated graphics <gah!>).

I had read somewhere that having a page file with an SSD creates a lot of extra wear on the drive. Has anyone else heard that before or have any insight into it?

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2 hours ago, OneYenShort said:

When programs request memory, it is expecting contagious blocks of memory.  The OS doesn't report free vs. largest contiguous free.  The memory control aspects of the OS does very little RAM defragging.  This is why sometime you'll still get "out of memory" issues, even though it seems like you have plenty. 

this influences things too, yes. generally the Memory that is lost to 'dead zones' is on the smaller side, but that can definitely cause problems sometimes.

in my world, which consists of a lot of 3D Applications, the Memory issue is generally far more of what i mentioned that they will request Memory "just in case" but then never use it.
for example, i have audited both Division 2 and MH World and had each consuming ~20GByte of Memory, though only actually using half of that or less.
in the case of Div2 they have some broad covering Anti-Cheat that prevents me from reading their Memory stack, which i respected because i didn't want to get banned. but also left me unable to diagnose the ridiculous Memory waste.
for MH World though, i was able to deduce that the game would save Level data for each region forever after Loading it when you go to play in that area. however... it would never unload it. and you might think  "well they're just Caching it a little overzealously to make subsequent Loads faster". i thought that too before i started investigating, but no, the game still loads from Disk if you leave and return an area you have already been!!!!!! so it doesn't even get any benefit out of it atleast, it's just literally pissing Memory into space.

 

ok that's enough ranting for now.

27 minutes ago, (PS4)crashteddy03 said:

I had read somewhere that having a page file with an SSD creates a lot of extra wear on the drive. Has anyone else heard that before or have any insight into it?

technically it's extra writes that you on paper could otherwise not have if you didn't have PageFile enabled - in practice Applications will generally not be storing much in there as long as you have a reasonable amount of Memory, so not much actually gets written there.
and furthermore the average SSD is going to have a minimum effective lifespan of around 500TBW (TeraBytes Written). that isn't 100% Cell failure either, that's reaching a point where the majority of the Cells are dead and performance has dropped significantly, or something else went wrong and the Drive went dead just of its own accord.
i bring that up because realistically you're probably not going to burn out an SSD that you're even using every day before.... you get bored with the Capacity it has versus new ones, or it stops being fast enough for your tastes, or you've just had it so long that you would end up replacing it anyways (since Consumers do tend to replace things just out of habit even if it's still fine).

in short, you don't really need to worry about it unless your System is pretty low on Memory. in modern times where people are often running like a dozen Browser Tabs and 5 Game Launchers and a bunch of VOIP Applications and blah blah all on top of playing a game, 16GByte+ should generally ensure that you don't need to store things in PageFile, but Applications may still elect to store small amounts of data there. with things trending towards 32GByte in order to hold this position.

okay that wasn't very short so in actually short, it doesn't matter what types of Data Writing happens to an SSD, it's strictly the amount of total Data that wears Cells out. and by far the biggest contributors to SSD's wearing out is installing Video Games, Updating Windows, Et Cetera. that's where large amounts of Writes are happening.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)crashteddy03 said:

Previously I would have agreed with that statement and I did run without a page file for many years on my previous laptop (8GB RAM, discrete graphics, Windows 7). On my slightly newer laptop running Windows 10 I discovered that I couldn't get into the open worlds (PoE or OV) with the page file disabled (8GB RAM, integrated graphics <gah!>).

I had read somewhere that having a page file with an SSD creates a lot of extra wear on the drive. Has anyone else heard that before or have any insight into it?

This was something that was on my mind when I built my new PC.  But I also realized that with my current 32 gigs of ram, that it really wouldn't matter much.  So I just locked the pagefile size to just above 4gb in size.  

I was gonna put it on a second ssd I have installed, but didn't think it would matter much on a m.2 with PCI gen4.  Some of the current Tech available now kinda makes some of the tweaks used for older hardware a moot point.  

Edit: 

Spoiler

Funny but true story.  I recently got back in Skyrim specifically to see if I could use tons of large texture mods to fill up the vram after I got the Radeon VII.  For those who might not know, the Radeon VII has 16 gb of HBM2.  Which is a large amount of sickeningly fast ram.  Let's just say that I haven't been able to fill it up with just gaming mods.  (closest I got was about 8gigs used)  Not sure if it's the result of the amount of vram, the speed, or a combo of both.  

@taiiat might find the hidden edit interesting.  :D 

Edited by DatDarkOne
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On 2020-09-13 at 6:30 AM, DatDarkOne said:

I said to lock the pagefile size not delete it.  Meaning to set the minimum and maximum size to be the same.  It can still be as large or as small as you want.  It just won't be using processor and drive write times to try and recalculate the size on the fly.  

This has more performance effect under load on HDD than SSD/M.2

edit: as for the breaking the game part, that shouldn't happen unless you have a low amount of ram.  Like 4gigs or lower.  Having 8 gigs or more and you can pretty much safely go without a pagefile at all in most situations.  

Oh, I see, my bad, that's sounds reasonable.
I'm on 8GB win 8.1 but on integrated card. It's fine in most cases. Open world is little bit bad in this case but 16GB would be enough even for integrated graphic card.
ps. of course if you don't need high-end graphics.

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On 2020-09-09 at 4:55 PM, [DE]Glen said:

some people can’t fit it on their smaller SSDs and have to run it off of a slow HDD instead

Can relate. I actually have it installed on SSD, but I dont have enough space to free up space in order to optmize space... Basically, in order to free ~2GB, it requires the full ~35GB of the whole game of free space...

Just hoping it wont be the same with this optimization...

 

PS: we need notifications for dev workshops! They are far more relevant for most than, say....homestreams, yet they often pass unnoticed

Edited by kuryux
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I'm under the process of downloading Warframe from Steam again, as we speak. Is this update also included in their CDN already or should I have to go through the pain of yet another 7GB download after a 33GB one.

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hi this bieng only my second post ever ..i realy dont appreciate having no choice in the matter i have 2 tb standard mechanical hdd and sieeng that warframe is the only thing on here space is no issue..what is an issue is u making me sit hours an hours waiting for a stupid space saver i..dont give two s@#$@ about i have over a terrabyte free... but i do work for a living and now i have to sit and watch this "insert realy bad word" where i couldve destressed with my mates... pls in future dont remove our choices in if i wana save space or not

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2 hours ago, Wesleysniped said:

hi this bieng only my second post ever ..i realy dont appreciate having no choice in the matter i have 2 tb standard mechanical hdd and sieeng that warframe is the only thing on here space is no issue..what is an issue is u making me sit hours an hours waiting for a stupid space saver i..dont give two s@#$@ about i have over a terrabyte free... but i do work for a living and now i have to sit and watch this "insert realy bad word" where i couldve destressed with my mates... pls in future dont remove our choices in if i wana save space or not

You know, it's not that easy. Managing few versions is not easy task. It asks for troubles.
And I will be downloading it for 3-4 hours myself. I know that "pain" but it will brings something good for me. HDD space is "important" for me but not for you. That's understandable. However with each new content you should download less data (I don't think they managed ~1/2 of a space required for images). So, as you says "hours and hours" your internet connection is not good, hence next updates will be faster. Just deal with "current update's pain".
 

14 hours ago, ValkyrieD said:

Uninstall and reinstall works ? If have low space.

Not sure exact requirements but ~23 GB free - 4GB to delete from previous update. It optimized cache and I have ~44GB free. Now it's downloading current update.

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I'm very excited about this since I knew you were going to do it, I don't have problems of file size in my drive, but I'm still glad people who had them will meet a solution, and this is a large improvement, so I hope it will improve the game more than it is <3

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Hola alguien tendrá alguna solución a mi problema al descargar la actualización?
La velocidad de descarga de la actualización me va a 200 kb/s, y no, no es problema de mi internet ya que desinstale y volví a instalar el Warframe de steam en 1 hora pensando que si lo hacia tal vez ya tendría la actualización mas rápido en cambio me tomara unas 10 a 11 horas aprox en descargar solo la actualización.

Si alguien sabe gracias.

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I have some questions about updating.

1. What if theres not enough hard drive space (22.2gb required to optimise the cache)? (i'll know the answer to this in 2 hours but thought i'd ask.)

2. Could it be possible for the next parts to do the download in the background while the game is running and re-optimise it when our system isnt in use?

Seeing as optimising cache does eat up system resources and will likely catch people by surprise if they're time limited.

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In my case it finished downloading around 6.8gb and then started downloading another 6.7gb, so i got locked out of the game for almost 8 hours already downloading 13+gb, plop. my launcher broke? i hope after this download finishes it wont start downloading another 50gb....

Edit, it finished downloading and it STARTED all over again omg 3 times, err... judging by the data used looks like 4 times.

R8BjcQY.png

Edited by BigElros
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vor 15 Stunden schrieb Wesleysniped:

hi this bieng only my second post ever ..i realy dont appreciate having no choice in the matter i have 2 tb standard mechanical hdd and sieeng that warframe is the only thing on here space is no issue..what is an issue is u making me sit hours an hours waiting for a stupid space saver i..dont give two s@#$@ about i have over a terrabyte free... but i do work for a living and now i have to sit and watch this "insert realy bad word" where i couldve destressed with my mates... pls in future dont remove our choices in if i wana save space or not

They usualy do, But doing an optimasation once in a while is important. No other game I am aware of even gives you to option to (usualy) delay when small optimisations happen. Even if you have 2tb, just be happy for the free 6 gb at the worst xD

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now i am really unhappy with the ensmalling as you call it.

the graphics have become very pixelated and is so so so so so annoying to my eyes..i see  detail very clear..

i tell u it has changed to very uncomfortible to me

when you run around now its like pixelated and buffers in when you run..its annoying.. every where i run it is like it streams in now

standing still you dont really see it

this compression has screwed it it up..i was never worried about size on ssd

but poor graphics sucks

 

 

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To me, light maps looked way flatter and simpler. Didn't even have to look hard.

And the introduction of more compression is going backwards in tech. Now that consoles and new GPU-s are switching to direct SSD texture streaming.
Can't this be optional or limited to medium quality settings?

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1 hour ago, Ketec said:

To me, light maps looked way flatter and simpler. Didn't even have to look hard.

And the introduction of more compression is going backwards in tech. Now that consoles and new GPU-s are switching to direct SSD texture streaming.
Can't this be optional or limited to medium quality settings?

 

1 hour ago, Ketec said:

To me, light maps looked way flatter and simpler. Didn't even have to look hard.

And the introduction of more compression is going backwards in tech. Now that consoles and new GPU-s are switching to direct SSD texture streaming.
Can't this be optional or limited to medium quality settings?

i agree on optional ..it should be...game looks really crappy now..eyes can see it easily..

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7 hours ago, -BKB-SamuarJoe said:

i'm using laptop with i5-3230m 8gB ram with eGPU RTX 2080Ti

i hope [DE] in this update will fix my crash in loading open world

💘

I'm using a similar spec laptop but with the internal GPU (urgh...) and I also had issues with loading PoE and OV. Creating a page file solved the issue, so do you have a page file configured?

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