Would a small hop while ADSing or manually blocking be a nice addition?

[(NSW)Greybones]

For starters, I know there are players who don't bother dodging anything because they can just face tank it.

For those who don't facetank, has anyone else wanted a short side hop while ADSing or manually blocking (the backflip feels fine)? I use the slide to sort of emulate it, and it does an okay job, but it feels a little weird and clunky, and a quick hop or step to the side might flow better in the middle of combat.

Personally, I'm thinking it doesn't need any damage reduction or increased evasion or anything aside from a small displacement of the player's position, just enough to sidestep a Bombard's rocket or an Ancient's grab, get behind cover, or reposition oneself in a melee fight. Half the distance of the side-roll or shorter (maybe), half the recovery time or shorter (maybe)

Any thoughts?

(also, I can't for the life of me remember if I posted something like this before, or if I just thought really hard about doing it and then never did)

edit: As an aside, I was introduced to Amalgam Barrel Diffusion by someone in a different thread. It looks good, and I’m eager to get a hold of it

[Goodwill]

Not too out of the realm of possibility as they did something similar with melee stances. Someone may need to correct me, but if you are manually blocking with a melee weapon, your dodge distance is shorter.

If you are serious about this suggestion, then make a thread under one of the Feedback categories of the forums.

[(NSW)Greybones]

7 minutes ago, Goodwill said:

Not too out of the realm of possibility as they did something similar with melee stances. Someone may need to correct me, but if you are manually blocking with a melee weapon, your dodge distance is shorter.

If you are serious about this suggestion, then make a thread under one of the Feedback categories of the forums.

Oh man, melee stances. I love how they made it so a player can consistently use distance closers instead of relying on doing a combo first.

Yeah, dodging while blocking does feel shorter. It’s like a slower roll that doesn’t go as far (though it may be the same length of time as the standard roll to recover from, and only looks slow because it doesn’t travel)

Gonna post under feedback after a bit 👍. Just wondered before I do what some outside views on it might be like, so I can potentially incorporate them into the post (unless it’s discovered that it’s already in the game)

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I suppose it wouldn't hurt, though normally with things like bombard rockets I jump out of the way. Ancients can be blocked, but the problem is that they practically spam grab and you have a very tight window to block unless your melee is already out. 

 

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

5 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

For starters, I know there are players who don't bother dodging anything because they can just face tank it.

For those who don't facetank, has anyone else wanted a short side hop while ADSing or manually blocking (the backflip feels fine)? I use the slide to sort of emulate it, and it does an okay job, but it feels a little weird and clunky, and a quick hop or step to the side might flow better in the middle of combat.

 

There's already a roll/dodge move

tap crouch while pressing the left stick sideways, and you do a short roll to the side.

Holding crouch does the slide, Tapping crouch does the roll.

[(NSW)Greybones]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

There's already a roll/dodge move

tap crouch while pressing the left stick sideways, and you do a short roll to the side.

Holding crouch does the slide, Tapping crouch does the roll.

Hmm. I'm tapping and all that's happening is my character sort of bends down to do a slide and then straightens up again.

I'm doing it on my PC account, so no stick here. Is that the difference...?

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

23 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Hmm. I'm tapping and all that's happening is my character sort of bends down to do a slide and then straightens up again.

I'm doing it on my PC account, so no stick here. Is that the difference...?

I dunno, I'm doing this on my PS4, no keyboard here. Is that the difference?

 

Any case, you should probably get that Roll move sorted out for your controls setup.

because, this is a thing: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Rolling_Guard

[(NSW)Greybones]

24 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

I dunno, I'm doing this on my PS4, no keyboard here. Is that the difference?

 

Any case, you should probably get that Roll move sorted out for your controls setup.

because, this is a thing: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Rolling_Guard

Neat, thanks for the info. Sounds a little more powerful than what I usually need, but it’s nice as an option 👍 

I feel like the thing you’re describing is the standard dodge-roll, which I already knew about. It’s a great “Oh crap!” dodge, but it travels quite a ways and ends up either putting me into an awkward corner or off the edge of a walkway when I just needed to do a small dodge

[Corvid]

I find a quick sideways slide usually works fine for the purpose of evasion. You can even do it while aiming without disrupting your zoom.

[(NSW)Greybones]

28 minutes ago, Corvid said:

I find a quick sideways slide usually works fine for the purpose of evasion. You can even do it while aiming without disrupting your zoom.

Already referenced using the slide 👍.

It works okay, but it feels a little clunky as a dodge. It's great as a "Coming through!" option, or to get from one side of a corridor to another while laying down fire

[Reitrix]

I kinda wanna see an exilus for guns that causes a frontal shield to activate while aiming down sights.

Similar to the Sanctuary pet mod, basically an Energy field that you can snap on to absorb damage while aiming. 

Give it a cooldown of 5 seconds or something so you can't just spam ADS for an infinite shield.

[Surbusken]

I can't find any links on it, but during movement, isn't there is a smaller chance of NPCs landing a hit on you, versus standing still?

I've been trying to find an article on it, like if there is some forumla with hit chance percentage proportional to movement speed or something. But I don't know if it's called dodge or evasion or has another name.

I had imagined it was a response to NPCs hitscan, where you can't manually evade, so it had to be a scripted chance to hit.

But yeah so I figured the concept was constant movment and being midair, as much as possible, in order to duck the attacks.

Can't prove anything though, might all be bs lol.

[Corvid]

1 hour ago, Surbusken said:

I can't find any links on it, but during movement, isn't there is a smaller chance of NPCs landing a hit on you, versus standing still?

I've been trying to find an article on it, like if there is some forumla with hit chance percentage proportional to movement speed or something. But I don't know if it's called dodge or evasion or has another name.

I had imagined it was a response to NPCs hitscan, where you can't manually evade, so it had to be a scripted chance to hit.

But yeah so I figured the concept was constant movment and being midair, as much as possible, in order to duck the attacks.

Can't prove anything though, might all be bs lol.

While I can't provide the specific formula (due to not having access to it) I can confirm that enemy accuracy with hitscan weapons is effected by movement, distance (which varies based on enemy type, so a Ballista will actually have an easier time hitting you when you're further away, for instance), and likely several other factors. This was discussed in at least one of the Devstreams, but since it was several years ago I forget which one.

[(NSW)Greybones]

6 hours ago, Surbusken said:

I can't find any links on it, but during movement, isn't there is a smaller chance of NPCs landing a hit on you, versus standing still?

I've been trying to find an article on it, like if there is some forumla with hit chance percentage proportional to movement speed or something. But I don't know if it's called dodge or evasion or has another name.

I had imagined it was a response to NPCs hitscan, where you can't manually evade, so it had to be a scripted chance to hit.

But yeah so I figured the concept was constant movment and being midair, as much as possible, in order to duck the attacks.

Can't prove anything though, might all be bs lol.

There is an evasion mechanic on jumping around (I wall run and bounce from wall to wall in the larger tilesets like some of the Orokin and Jupiter tiles and wherever I can), and it feels pretty drastic. I don’t think bulletjumping has evasion increasing, but aimglide does?

Not every place has walls to easily jump from, which is fine in my opinion. I like having (example) narrow corridors where gunfire is traded since they add a nice contrast to the more open tiles; it makes entering the larger tiles, where I now have new movement options, feel more enjoyable after leaving the confines of the corridor after a tremendous gunfight.

[Miser_able]

I tap the slide button and sort of shimmy to the side, works just fine for me. you can even weave in between obstacles while still aiming

[(NSW)Greybones]

2 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

I tap the slide button and sort of shimmy to the side, works just fine for me. you can even weave in between obstacles while still aiming

Referenced using the slide 👍

[TARINunit9]

On 2021-05-27 at 9:11 PM, (NSW)Greybones said:

For starters, I know there are players who don't bother dodging anything because they can just face tank it.

For those who don't facetank, has anyone else wanted a short side hop while ADSing or manually blocking (the backflip feels fine)? I use the slide to sort of emulate it, and it does an okay job, but it feels a little weird and clunky, and a quick hop or step to the side might flow better in the middle of combat.

It took me a couple google searches to tell what the heck you were asking for. But then I got it: you want a sidestep-dodge

Frankly I don't think that would accomplish much because Warframe's flow of combat isn't the kind of flow you're looking for. Warframe combat isn't designed to be fair -- your options are "nuke the countryside with so much damage the enemy dies within three seconds of spawning", "turn into a whirling tornado of blades and death so the enemy dies within two seconds of spawning", or "die horribly because seventeen enemies surrounded you and pumped you full of bullets." If you're in a situation where you think "wow I really wish I could sidestep to avoid this guy's return fire while I'm shooting him" you're taking too much time to kill him, and all the sidehops in the world aren't going to save you from his sixteen buddies

[(NSW)Greybones]

5 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

It took me a couple google searches to tell what the heck you were asking for. But then I got it: you want a sidestep-dodge

Frankly I don't think that would accomplish much because Warframe's flow of combat isn't the kind of flow you're looking for. Warframe combat isn't designed to be fair -- your options are "nuke the countryside with so much damage the enemy dies within three seconds of spawning", "turn into a whirling tornado of blades and death so the enemy dies within two seconds of spawning", or "die horribly because seventeen enemies surrounded you and pumped you full of bullets." If you're in a situation where you think "wow I really wish I could sidestep to avoid this guy's return fire while I'm shooting him" you're taking too much time to kill him, and all the sidehops in the world aren't going to save you from his sixteen buddies

Might have to clarify in the original post 🤔. But yeah, something like that. The default roll displaces quite far, and sometimes too far

You seem quite adamant that your take on Warframe’s combat is the right one and only one, yet here I am, looking to sidestep dodge because I often find myself in situations where I need a shorter, quicker dodge than the roll (even shorter than the ADS roll). There’s a good balance to be found between not killing immediately and not dying immediately for most of the content (maybe not on Steel Path, but that’s a different story).

I literally say in the post that I use the slide to sort of emulate a sidehop and it works… okay (if a little clunky), yet you’re telling me I can’t find what I’m looking for in Warframe’s combat flow when I’m pretty much engaging in the flow I’m looking for right now?

edit: I’ll lay out what I’m hearing you say; “Equip your best and nuke everything. Star Chart, Steel Path, it doesn’t matter.”

I’m not looking to nuke everything, I’m looking for fights where I struggle and then come out on top, and I’m getting them from Earth to Sedna, doing bounties and cracking relics and completing arbitrations and whatever. For some mysterious reason.

[TARINunit9]

51 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

You seem quite adamant that your take on Warframe’s combat is the right one and only one, yet here I am, looking to sidestep dodge because I often find myself in situations where I need a shorter, quicker dodge than the roll (even shorter than the ADS roll). There’s a good balance to be found between not killing immediately and not dying immediately for most of the content (maybe not on Steel Path, but that’s a different story).

I was about to ask, you tried Steel Path? Heck, even as mundane as 30 minute Kuva Survival or 20 waves of Defense (both Nightwave challenges, which DE DOES balance for) if the enemy in my iron sights is firing back enough that I need to do any kind of dodge, I'm not killing fast enough and the mission WILL fail if I don't pick up the pace

[(NSW)Greybones]

10 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

I was about to ask, you tried Steel Path? Heck, even as mundane as 30 minute Kuva Survival or 20 waves of Defense (both Nightwave challenges, which DE DOES balance for) if the enemy in my iron sights is firing back enough that I need to do any kind of dodge, I'm not killing fast enough and the mission WILL fail if I don't pick up the pace

I was wondering if you were speaking from a Steel Path point of view.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I was wondering if you were speaking from a Steel Path point of view.

Both yes and no. As much as all the suggestions coming down the pipeline in this forums think that Warframe is a skill-based shooter, it really isn't, it's a grind-based horde annihilation game

[(NSW)Greybones]

37 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Both yes and no. As much as all the suggestions coming down the pipeline in this forums think that Warframe is a skill-based shooter, it really isn't, it's a grind-based horde annihilation game

Far as I can tell, it’s both, and each player can choose how to approach.

You’re gonna tell me that I’m doing it wrong though? I’m not god-like in my approach, and so I need to aim well and move well, and yet I can still win (or lose if I don’t aim well and move well and use my abilities and tools that I’ve brought to the mission well).

I haven’t superglued the best equipment to myself, and the game delivers what I’m looking for; a game that requires some sort of skill to come out on top

[Aldain]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I was wondering if you were speaking from a Steel Path point of view.

As a note, even non-Steel Path missions can eventually snowball into that issue.

The damage enemies can do scales up rather quickly past level 70 or so, mostly to stop player side sponges like Inaros/Nidus from being unkillable.

Even as early as level 100 the damage increases basically make any frame that doesn't have massive DR or artificial padding through abilities made of paper, by level 200 most things become 1-2 bullet deaths even from average Grineer hitscan shots.

The damage systems in the game are currently a mess on the enemy side, where you either have them basically firing blanks or atomic bombs with little-to-no middle ground.

[(NSW)Greybones]

5 minutes ago, Aldain said:

As a note, even non-Steel Path missions can eventually snowball into that issue.

The damage enemies can do scales up rather quickly past level 70 or so, mostly to stop player side sponges like Inaros/Nidus from being unkillable.

Even as early as level 100 the damage increases basically make any frame that doesn't have massive DR or artificial padding through abilities made of paper, by level 200 most things become 1-2 bullet deaths even from average Grineer hitscan shots.

The damage systems in the game are currently a mess on the enemy side, where you either have them basically firing blanks or atomic bombs with little-to-no middle ground.

What do you reckon I think about the points you’ve made?

You’re addressing some sort of view that you think I have, and I’m curious what you think it is

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Far as I can tell, it’s both, and each player can choose how to approach.

You’re gonna tell me that I’m doing it wrong though? I’m not god-like in my approach, and so I need to aim well and move well, and yet I can still win (or lose if I don’t aim well and move well and use my abilities and tools that I’ve brought to the mission well).

I haven’t superglued the best equipment to myself, and the game delivers what I’m looking for; a game that requires some sort of skill to come out on top

I'm siding with Aldain on this, but first I'd like to ask What level missions do you normally play?