Helminth Grows a New Appetite: 30.5 Update!

[-MG-CephalonCinnamon]

1 minute ago, Mikenyes said:

I don't have anything profound to say, but I want to throw my two cents in with what everyone else is saying, and hope that enough cents pile up to make Digital Extremes realize that Invigorations are a terrible idea.
Sure, I'd love to have even more powerful Warframes... but this isn't progression, this isn't a refreshing buff to "bad" frames, this is possibly the least meaningful and most likely to unbalance the game way to implement a buff to Frames.

agreed, the invigorations system should have been a way to infuse weapons with a 'legendary effect' basically any special gun effect from borderlands XD (and not be based on badly designed rng)

[MarikBentusi]

Aww, no return of Echoes of Umbra (ability to let Helminth add the Sentience passive to your frame)

[-MG-CephalonCinnamon]

1 minute ago, MarikBentusi said:

Aww, no return of Echoes of Umbra.

what do you mean? this is Echoes of Umbra 2.0

they'll (holefully) realise its a bad idea and hold it back the same way XD

edit: hell, its even got the same 1 week duration on the buffs as echoes of umbra

[Joezone619]

Summery of "helminth invigorations".

9 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Every week, your Helminth will have an Affinity toward 3 Random Warframes. You can interact with Helminth with these Warframes to gain select Weekly Buffs (one Offensive and one Utility/Defense)! For example:

 

Zephyr: 200% Power Strength and Immune To Status
Atlas: 200% Primary Critical Chance and +1000 Armor
Excalibur: 250% Melee Damage and 75% power Efficiency

 

I for 1, an very against this. With helminth, as he is, we have full control over what we do with it. Invigorations, is adding RNG where it doesn't belong. I also believe these buffs are unbalanced and unappetizing. 

Anything that affects power stats, (power strength, range, efficiency, duration), is not a good idea, especially for an RNG system, this screws with builds and will make certain builds unplayable for that week. Things affecting armor, and base stats would have to be off the table for me too, thats what modding is for, if you need a new system of buffs to these, either add more mods, buff current mods, or buff frames.

The player is already capable of making their warframe ridiculously overpowered, to the point where balance between player and enemy is basically unachievable. With the sheer amount of armor mods, power mods, health, shields, etc option that we have, we really don't need a system like this.

IMO, based on the video, and the workshop, I'd rate this feature 1.5/10. Its going to make people waaay too powerful, and "steel path" will be as easy as the normal star chart, entirely contradicting the whole point of its creation. Warframe doesn't need to be easier DE, it needs to be harder, the player is capable of becoming way too powerful as it is.

[Radu10]

2 minutes ago, EdDiesel said:

Are you guys still friends after this discussion???

We agree on this topic, so why shouldn't we?

[Tenzarin]

Warframe rivens are on the menu boys!

[Joezone619]

And this is all without mentioning the fact that you have to wait 10 weeks or 70 days to even have some level of control over which frames are picked each week, that being whatever frame you have equipt, leading you to always make sure you log out on 1 specific frame, making logging in and out asinine.

[MarikBentusi]

Just now, -MG-CephalonCinnamon said:

what do you mean? this is Echoes of Umbra 2.0

they'll (holefully) realise its a bad idea and hold it back the same way XD

edit: hell, its even got the same 1 week duration on the buffs as echoes of umbra

Obviously I was attached to the idea of giving frames the Umbra passive, not the limitations that were so universally disliked that the system got shelved, c'mon dude. >_>

[-MG-CephalonCinnamon]

i know this should be on the other workshop but im too lazy to switch rn, and i mention the helminth there. 

but the way i would've rebalanced guns/melee is :

1 - buffed enemies, in a way that they'd be of a similar power on base star chart level, but would scale much harder when you got over 100 (the end stat multipliers from the level scaling fuctions would be 3-10 times higher than currently, depending on the stat, eg armor would be closer to 2 while shields and health would be closer to 6)

1.2 - give us unlockable mission modifiers, in a similar aspect to risk of rain 2 artifacts, e.g. mission starts at lvl9999, or less but tougher enemies, friendly fire (both for us and enemies)(could exclude allies if they dont select the option), ghosts spawn from enemies, etc.

2 - buff guns OUT THE ASSSS, with better stats and mods (even a prober blood rush and condition overload, and implement the sniper style combo system) and to make them fun and have a chance to compete with kill rate have a HELMINTH for guns to give them effects like chaining/spawning a meteor on crit or having riccoshets or changing the projectiles to exploding buzz saws.

3 - bring back SOME aspects of melee 2.0 (not the range as that was over the top even in my opinion, as much as i miss my 20m+ slide melee).

 

buffing guns majorly and melee slightly would put them on a similar power level, and buffing enemies + adding modifiers would give us a reason to have access to such powerful weapons. and leaving low level enemies close to what they are now to avoid making the game too hard to new players (like how people complained originally before you nerfed enemies)

 

35 minutes ago, MarikBentusi said:

Obviously I was attached to the idea of giving frames the Umbra passive, not the limitations that were so universally disliked that the system got shelved, c'mon dude. >_>

i was meming >->

 

and comparing how they'll hopefully backpeddle on the idea

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

As long as they're opt in and don't just randomly turn on there's no issue. 

If you personally don't like it, you don't have to get the segment from Son.

I'm pretty excited and looking forward to it.

[Kacela]

Srsly. I am a 42 year old woman and I can't watch the videos? And no, I will not shove any more data down Googles throat.

[Radu10]

2 minutes ago, -MG-CephalonCinnamon said:

i know this should be on the other workshop but im too lazy to switch rn, and i mention the helminth there. 

but the way i would've rebalanced guns/melee is :

1 - buffed enemies, in a way that they'd be of a similar power on base star chart level, but would scale much harder when you got over 100 (the end stat multipliers from the level scaling fuctions would be 3-10 times higher than currently, depending on the stat, eg armor would be closer to 2 while shields and health would be closer to 6)

1.2 - give us unlockable mission modifiers, in a similar aspect to risk of rain 2 artifacts, e.g. mission starts at lvl9999, or less but tougher enemies, friendly fire (both for us and enemies)(could exclude allies if they dont select the option), ghosts spawn from enemies, etc.

2 - buff guns OUT THE ASSSS, with better stats and mods (even a prober blood rush and condition overload, and implement the sniper style combo system) and to make them fun and have a chance to compete with kill rate have a HELMINTH for guns to give them effects like chaining/spawning a meteor on crit or having riccoshets or changing the projectiles to exploding buzz saws.

3 - bring back SOME aspects of melee 2.0 (not the range as that was over the top even in my opinion, as much as i miss my 20m+ slide melee).

 

buffing guns majorly and melee slightly would put them on a similar power level, and buffing enemies + adding modifiers would give us a reason to have access to such powerful weapons. and leaving low level enemies close to what they are now to avoid making the game too hard to new players (like how people complained originally before you nerfed enemies)

My idea was add a combo system and mods scaling on combo for guns.
the more is similar to melee the closer it would be

Those current mods wont fill the gap imo

[Kraethius]

The new ranks seem ok but Invigorations seem like a very bad idea.

[-MG-CephalonCinnamon]

5 minutes ago, Radu10 said:

My idea was add a combo system and mods scaling on combo for guns.
the more is similar to melee the closer it would be

Those current mods wont fill the gap imo

yeah the current mods wont be enough. sure having 200% multishot instead of 90 or 120 will be nice, and the conditional dmg from the arcanes will add up for some seriously high dmg numbers. also the crit chance on headshot mods are completely worthless, as almost 100% of the time you will be unable to stack the headshot kill part of them since DOTs dont count as headshot kills even if you proc them with a headshot (and since most of the time gun builds still kill with DOTs especially against grineer, its not going to work in SP)

but guns are weak because they cant target enough enemies quickly enough not because of their damage (some guns CAN actually do more damage than melee), its kinda hard to compete with the 80-150 kills/minute abilities and melee can get. thats why guns need something like riccoshets or chaining or a chance to do damage in a massive AOE, and/or having fun passives.

[DrivaMain]

Please no more randomness. If you want to continue with this invigoration system Remove the randomness, to counter this signifcantly nerf the power boost and make the duration shorter. For example from +200% power STR to +25%. The power boost lasts from a week to a day. Now the system requires daily upkeep and the upgrades are minor tp prevent huge powet creep.

[Radu10]

1 minute ago, -MG-CephalonCinnamon said:

yeah the current mods wont be enough. sure having 200% multishot instead of 90 or 120 will be nice, and the conditional dmg from the arcanes will add up for some seriously high dmg numbers. also the crit chance on headshot mods are completely worthless, as almost 100% of the time you will be unable to stack the headshot kill part of them since DOTs dont count as headshot kills even if you proc them with a headshot (and since most of the time gun builds still kill with DOTs especially against grineer, its not going to work in SP)

but guns are weak because they cant target enough enemies quickly enough not because of their damage (some guns CAN actually do more damage than melee), its kinda hard to compete with the 80-150 kills/minute abilities and melee can get.

against enemies lvl 9k trigger "on kill" bonuses will be impossible and pointless

You need the bonus to get a kill to get the bonus lol

[-MG-CephalonCinnamon]

Just now, DrivaMain said:

Please no more randomness. If you want to continue with this invigoration system Remove the randomness, to counter this signifcantly nerf the power boost and make the duration shorter. For example from +200% power STR to +25%. The power boost lasts from a week to a day. Now the system requires daily upkeep and the upgrades are minor tp prevent huge powet creep.

i like the idea of no randomness and am fine with lower values, but daily upkeep just sounds too tedious i'd rather just not bother at that point.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 hour ago, -MG-CephalonCinnamon said:

i agree that not everyone wants balance, warframe being a power fantasy game and all.

but if you dont care about balance, wouldnt you want to be able to influence what frames get what buff? so that you can continue playing your favourite frame and have a complete power trip.

also imagine how bad it would feel to finally get an invoration for your favourite frame after weeks of playing only for it to be power efficiency and armor (or some other combination that you dont care about or it anti-synergistic with the frame and/or your playstyle).

Additionally its going to be really harmful in its current state for those who go after leaderboard possitions, in some cases making it literally impossible to compete if you dont get the correct invigorations. (i know that this is a very small portion of the comunity, but whoever *@##$es the loudest is the majority (metaphorically))

It's not even released and you're already dependent on it? 

It's a free random buff...you've been playing without it already. If the stars align and you get lucky playing a particular frame one day and a buff for you appears, then have some fun. No harm no foul.

[-MG-CephalonCinnamon]

2 minutes ago, Radu10 said:

against enemies lvl 9k trigger "on kill" bonuses will be impossible and pointless

You need the bonus to get a kill to get the bonus lol

ehh some guns can get slash proc dealing above 1mil damage without even priming. (and quite a few in the 100k's) but yeah they'll be awkward AF and headshot kills will be actually impossible.

 

edit: the only one ill probably use is the multishot one

[DrivaMain]

2 minutes ago, -MG-CephalonCinnamon said:

i like the idea of no randomness and am fine with lower values, but daily upkeep just sounds too tedious i'd rather just not bother at that point.

Mid to late game players has so much excess resources, which is the target audience of the helminth system. It probably won't even make a dent on their resource vault.

[Noobly]

8 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

INTRODUCING: INVIGORATIONS
 

Please dont.

[Radu10]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

It's not even released and you're already dependent on it? 

It's a free random buff...you've been playing without it already. If the stars align and you get lucky playing a particular frame one day and a buff for you appears, then have some fun. No harm no foul.

yeah so you expecting everyone having your playstyle
logging in and playing carelessly about random buffs and such.

But hey have fun getting excluded in recruit chat when someone else has a better buffed frame than you! :)

[Gynvaelbleidd]

I would like to give a feedback about the Invigoration new mechanic.

Personally, I like the idea proposed: weekly random buffs to enhance the gameplay and change the pace you play your warframes.

Sadly, this gameplay diversity proposed is too similar to the same we get from Arbitrations.

I would love to see more innovative gameplay enhancement. Since I'm saying it I'll propose a few.

Think every time you invigorate your random warframe with a weekly buff you'll get a new fixed Loadout, an Enhanced Loadout.

If you select this Enhanced Loadout you'll active and use the weekly buffs. This would allow an easy opt-in and out form to this system.

For buffs that I believe would truly change your gameplay that week I would suggest:

• Augmented Invigoration - All Augmented Mods are active on this warframe.
• Polarity Invigoration - All Mods slots are under effect of universal polarity.
• Mod Invigoration - All effects from Mods of a specified family (Naramon, Vazarin or Madurai) are doubled (Corrupted Included).
• Status Invigoration - Currently proposed Invigoration buff.

I believe Augmented Invigoration would be amazing for any player looking to play with all augmented mods while not spending slots for them.

Polarity Invigoration would be a dream for any player without a "Forma-ed" warframe since it would allow him to make any build.

Mod Invigoration would be the closest to the actual proposed system, but would give to the player the option how to build your warframe.

Maybe Madurai Mod Invigoration would make some Warframes too strong, but only for that week, wouldn't that be fun?

And lastly the actual proposed system as an option of Invigoration to that week.

I know this idea would not please everybody but I believe that more meaningful enhancements added with the status enhancement that we already see on Arbitration would be a better addiction to the game.

[xXDeadsinxX]

2 hours ago, (PSN)TrollyThyTrinity said:

you all have the real disconnect you had years to tell them what you want and make it reasonable and you haven’t don’t it still so DE is doing what’s best.

because you been stagnant by keep a stance that doesn’t help the game at all 

See, the problem is DE doesn’t even know what they want. The way the game is designed and how they react and change things back & fourth all the time is confusing for the community, some want balance, some don’t, same with DE’s decisions with how the games designed. For instance, on one hand they want us to be incredibly powerful (nothing inherently wrong with that) and on the other hand they want there to be challenge in the game. Where it goes wrong within that thinking is that we are now WAY TOO powerful to the point of where there’s no challenge in the game. The only actual “challenge” within the game is the grind to get certain things & maybe learning new mechanics if you’re a newer player, that’s it. Which is also why we do not have “end game” content like other games do because if DE were to add some kind of it, it’d be a breeze for us to go through.
 

Now don’t get me wrong there’s nothing wrong with having a designed game like that, however, DE has shown time and time again that they do want some sort of challenge for the players in the game, by their actions of either nerfing powerful weapons, abilities, mods, or just plain broken mechanics that the majority of the player base only is using. See the design flaw? They want challenge for the players to have, yet we are too powerful in way too many ways to have any, which results in them trying to nerf certain things to try and balance the game out a bit, but that is just a bandaid, not an actual solution. The only way for DE to successfully add challenge within the game they are going to change most of the systems within the game from the ground up for them to be have actual change in the game. DE won’t do that though because that would take a lot of resources to do, and that would piss off a lot of community and would lose a lot of money with players quitting. 
 

I only brought all that up because if DE doesn’t know what they want, that’s not our fault. DE needs to stop the flip flop and just stick to one or the other, if you want us to be incredibly powerful, that’s fine, then just stop trying to nerf things in the name of “balance” and just leave things how they exactly are if you want us to be stay as powerful as we are. If not, then redesign your game. Easier said than done obviously, but DE is the ones who dug themselves in this hole of design hell, not our fault.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 minutes ago, Radu10 said:

yeah so you expecting everyone having your playstyle
logging in and playing carelessly about random buffs and such.

But hey have fun getting excluded in recruit chat when someone else has a better buffed frame than you! :)

Yea, I'm not gonna be able to do a 2 minute relic capture without a fully buffed helminth group....

Relax.