Why are people not stabbing their Sister/Liches?

[TheRealsemaJ]

Since the update came out, about every 3 missions I get into a squad where 1 person doesn't even try to stab their Sister/Lich.When either myself or the other 2 players say to stab it the response is always "I don't know the order/mods".

I really don't get why people aren't just trying them, at the very least your giving yourself and everyone progress to find an unknown mod.

Also, you can guess an unknown mod/ order of the mods. I've guess at least 1-2 mods on multiple occasions just by trying.

For example: You now 2 of the mods are Lohk and Ris, but you don't know the third. you can put Lohk at the 1st slot. even if you're wrong you know the Lohk isn't the 1st one, and you;ve gained progress to the 3rd one. or maybe Lohk was right but Ris isn't the 2nd one, you now now the Lohk is 1st and Ris is 3rd. Now all you have to do is get the 3rd one known and you know the exact order already.

At least if your not going to try say something and help keep downing quickly so you don't stop others from spawning. You'll even get some progress from the other people trying to down theirs.

 

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

Underleveled/weak players who don't want to level up their lich cos they can't handle the enemy level.  Simples.

[TheRealsemaJ]

But if you're running with 3 other players it goes down very quickly, The slowest I've seen my only sister that got to level 5 go down with a squad of myself and 3 others is 15 secs.

[TheRealsemaJ]

Ultimately I can't control other players of course, I just don't understand the reasoning behind not wanting to level it up if you're playing public anyways.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb TheRealsemaJ:

Since the update came out, about every 3 missions I get into a squad where 1 person doesn't even try to stab their Sister/Lich.When either myself or the other 2 players say to stab it the response is always "I don't know the order/mods".

I really don't get why people aren't just trying them, at the very least your giving yourself and everyone progress to find an unknown mod.

Also, you can guess an unknown mod/ order of the mods. I've guess at least 1-2 mods on multiple occasions just by trying.

For example: You now 2 of the mods are Lohk and Ris, but you don't know the third. you can put Lohk at the 1st slot. even if you're wrong you know the Lohk isn't the 1st one, and you;ve gained progress to the 3rd one. or maybe Lohk was right but Ris isn't the 2nd one, you now now the Lohk is 1st and Ris is 3rd. Now all you have to do is get the 3rd one known and you know the exact order already.

At least if your not going to try say something and help keep downing quickly so you don't stop others from spawning. You'll even get some progress from the other people trying to down theirs.

 

of course it can be beginners and I don't mind!

but mostly it's clowns or embarrassing trolls who just want to provoke others.
just leave the group and hope for players with brains. the games don't last that long.

[TheRealsemaJ]

1 minute ago, Battle.Mage said:

of course it can be beginners and I don't mind!

but mostly it's clowns or embarrassing trolls who just want to provoke others.
just leave the group and hope for players with brains. the games don't last that long.

I always leave squads anyways after missions due to not know what others are going to do.

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

14 minutes ago, TheRealsemaJ said:

Ultimately I can't control other players of course, I just don't understand the reasoning behind not wanting to level it up if you're playing public anyways.

As long as they take it down when it appears, I dont mind if they stab it or not. Since not engaging it will prevent mine from showing.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb TheRealsemaJ:

I always leave squads anyways after missions due to not know what others are going to do.

yes ... anarchy ...
everyone wants to do something different. I think it would be better if goals were set before the game. otherwise you will waste your time. or: there are actually mr31 people who don't use keys for railjack. I have no explanation whatsoever for it .... that's the case for insane asylum!

because I have a lot more than 1k keys and I only play RAD. including very rare parts that sell well and quickly ...
absolutely embarrassing what others are doing here ...

[Kaiga]

The DPS caps and damage reductions that sisters and liches have means that you need to mod at least somewhat optimally if you want any kind of damage output at all. 

New/clueless players are likely afraid of their adversary leveling up, because without good builds, modding for weaknesses or having frames that bypass damage reductions, you deal hilariously little damage at ranks 4-5, especially if you have a radiation or magnetic lich that causes parties to wipe themselves.

[TheRealsemaJ]

1 minute ago, Kaiga said:

The DPS caps and damage reductions that sisters and liches have means that you need to mod at least somewhat optimally if you want any kind of damage output at all. 

New/clueless players are likely afraid of their adversary leveling up, because without good builds, modding for weaknesses or having frames that bypass damage reductions, you deal hilariously little damage at ranks 4-5, especially if you have a radiation or magnetic lich that causes parties to wipe themselves.

You're not wrong, I gotta constantly remind myself not everyone has a 5-6 forma Nezha/Inaros that can stand in front for walls of SP enemies and laugh. I'll just continue the patented leave squad method after mission.

[(PSN)deathwolfclaw666]

For me it's simply about not wanting to level the thing up. Especially since I never planed on doing a lich (the thing spawned in front of me and died as I hit reload).

Also at the time of doing it there wasn't a clear way of getting rid of it without stabbing it. I could either get far enough away or keep downing it and it may leave. One time it just stayed.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

51 minutes ago, TheRealsemaJ said:

Since the update came out, about every 3 missions I get into a squad where 1 person doesn't even try to stab their Sister/Lich.When either myself or the other 2 players say to stab it the response is always "I don't know the order/mods".

 

 

Because I already know 2/3 symbols, and their position**. Meaning as soon as I have that last one revealed I can slot it in and get the Lich in just 1 Final Stab. I'm within 5 murmur of that reveal and will have enough just from the natural thralls in this current mission.

If I stab Now before that reveal then my Lich aggro will drop and I'll have to waste 2-3 missions to build it back up so they reappear.

By not stabbing now, as soon as this mission is over I can reconfig my parazon for the guaranteed kill, their Aggro will Stay Up, and I'll see them Immediately next mission.

 

 

 

**intelligently exploiting Oull actually allows you to Deduce Position at a faster rate than Symbol identification in some cases. So this situation comes up a lot. (obviously I'm not going to Actually Expend the Oull as a substitute for the final symbol, gotta keep it intact. It's more useful as a Probe)

[Jarriaga]

It's because of Oull, which lets you kill your Lich after just 3 stabs (4 if you're unlucky) and save time overall.

1) Put Oull in the first slot, put 2 other random Requiems in slots 2 and 3.

2) Wait for the first requiem to be revealed. Don't stab Lich until it does.

3) Put first known requiem in the second slot, then fight the Lich.

4) Oull passes and then the second slot (With the first known requiem) is tested. At this point:

4A) The second passes, which means you know for sure it goes in the second slot and can be left there. 

4B) Second slot fails, which means you now test it in slot 1 with Oull in slot 2, if it fails you know it's slot 3, if it passes then it's slot one.

5) Move Oull to one of the 2 remaining slots. Repeat process of not killing Lich/Sister until you get the second requiem, which by now means you only need to guess 1 more slot position instead of 2 because you know for certain the position of requiem 1 thanks to the initial position of Oull and requiem 1.

Oull is a nice QoL update. But as everything that is too convenient, it is being abused. In this case, it makes not stabbing your Lich/Sister the most efficient approach by a very wide margin, saving time from 2-3 additional fights. I myself am guilty of this.

[AzothChalice]

I won't stab mine if I just unlocked a Requiem mod in that mission

[LillyRaccune]

There is supposed to be a function where if you down your lich-sis three times, they run away. Is this feature broken? Or is this argument happening regardless of that?

[Jarriaga]

Just now, LillyRaccune said:

There is supposed to be a function where if you down your lich-sis three times, they run away. Is this feature broken? Or is this argument happening regardless of that?

It is intentionally being abused because of Oull.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

11 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

It's because of Oull, which lets you kill your Lich after just 3 stabs (4 if you're unlucky) and save time overall.

1) Put Oull in the first slot, put 2 other random Requiems in slots 2 and 3.

2) Wait for the first requiem to be revealed. Don't stab Lich until it does.

3) Put first known requiem in the second slot, then fight the Lich.

4) Oull passes and then the second slot (With the first known requiem) is tested. At this point:

4A) The second passes, which means you know for sure it goes in the second slot and can be left there. 

4B) Second slot fails, which means you now test it in slot 1 with Oull in slot 2, if it fails you know it's slot 3, if it passes then it's slot one.

5) Repeat process of not killing Lich/Sister until you get the second requiem, which by now means you only need to guess 1 more slot instead of 2 because you know for certain the position of requiem 1 thanks to the initial position of Oull and requiem 1.

Oull is a nice QoL update. But as everything that is too convenient, it is being abused. In this case, it makes not stabbing your Lich/Sister the most efficient approach. I myself am guilty of this.

 

Yes

but this is a Big Brain strategy.

Most players (such as OP) don't have the Deductive power to interpret the partial stab results.

So I don't see it so much as 'abuse' as it is a reward for playing smart.

[PublikDomain]

Convenience. For Sisters the Murmur gain is high enough that there's no sense attempting a combo if you don't know it'll work. If you guess wrong you just level it up and send it to a new planet, resetting the aggro meter and making things take longer. You don't need to brute force them, with Oull to figure out the puzzle logically. By not stabbing when there's nothing to test you keep the aggro high so it'll show up the next mission too, once you've figured out a hint. With Liches its still probably better to stab every time since the Murmur gain is so much lower.

[MqToasty]

I hear ya, man.  It is incredibly selfish and wastes everyone else's time when someone decides they do not want to stab their lich to prevent a level-up.  If they are in such a precarious situation where they are just 1 murmur away from the next relic, IMO they should be playing solo instead of being leeches.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

6 minutes ago, MqToasty said:

I hear ya, man.  It is incredibly selfish and wastes everyone else's time when someone decides they do not want to stab their lich to prevent a level-up.  If they are in such a precarious situation where they are just 1 murmur away from the next relic, IMO they should be playing solo instead of being leeches.

Lols

Complains about other players not stabbing *their own lich* because they wanted to leech the Fail Stab Murmur bonus.

 

[Jarriaga]

19 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

 

Yes

but this is a Big Brain strategy.

Most players (such as OP) don't have the Deductive power to interpret the partial stab results.

So I don't see it so much as 'abuse' as it is a reward for playing smart.

They don't have to figure out how to use Oull this way. YouTubers are already making guides about this, which means more people are going to be exposed to this method.

[MqToasty]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Lols

Complains about other players not stabbing *their own lich* because they wanted to leech the Fail Stab Murmur bonus.

 

No, the non-stabbers are leeching off of their team's strength because they are afraid of a level 5 lich.  Man up and git gud guys, liches are not that hard.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Just now, Jarriaga said:

They don't have to figure out how to use Oull this way. YouTubers are already making guides about this, which means more people are going to be exposed to this method.

Lame, first rule of Oull Club, is You do Not Talk about Oull Club, second rule off Oull Club is...

 

Well, jokes aside, I'm not too worried. since I don't see any way DE could nerf it that doesn't simultaneously reduce qol for people who Aren't using it in this manner.

 

 

[TheRealsemaJ]

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

It's because of Oull, which lets you kill your Lich after just 3 stabs (4 if you're unlucky) and save time overall.

1) Put Oull in the first slot, put 2 other random Requiems in slots 2 and 3.

2) Wait for the first requiem to be revealed. Don't stab Lich until it does.

3) Put first known requiem in the second slot, then fight the Lich.

4) Oull passes and then the second slot (With the first known requiem) is tested. At this point:

4A) The second passes, which means you know for sure it goes in the second slot and can be left there. 

4B) Second slot fails, which means you now test it in slot 1 with Oull in slot 2, if it fails you know it's slot 3, if it passes then it's slot one.

5) Move Oull to one of the 2 remaining slots. Repeat process of not killing Lich/Sister until you get the second requiem, which by now means you only need to guess 1 more slot position instead of 2 because you know for certain the position of requiem 1 thanks to the initial position of Oull and requiem 1.

Oull is a nice QoL update. But as everything that is too convenient, it is being abused. In this case, it makes not stabbing your Lich/Sister the most efficient approach by a very wide margin, saving time from 2-3 additional fights. I myself am guilty of this.

So if I use both my Oull in the 1st and 2nd slots, those would just be revealed? and I would just have to unlock the 3rd?

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

The only thing I've found difficult about them without fully leveling them up is how annoying it is when they teleport on terrain that is just frustrating to navigate. I saw one go under this weird spot underneath the stairs and kept going back and forth from it before anyone could deal any damage. It was so annoying. I can only imagine that happening with something that is a complete damage sponge, no thank you. So I imagine they don't want to level them up and just want to get through it.

 

The other issue? They might not want to waste their time if they have no idea what the next relic is or are close to it so why make them stronger for nothing?