Why are people not stabbing their Sister/Liches?

[MqToasty]

1 minute ago, PublikDomain said:

Because none of the PUGs I've run have failed a mission. Never mind Sisters, I probably haven't failed a mission - outside of bugs or aborts - in the last year. Though now that I think of it, what does this even have to do with stabbing a Lich? Rad procs will happen even if you stab.

Really now?  Maybe you are just particularly blessed then.  I wonder how many other pub players can honestly claim to have gone two months, let alone an entire year without having failed a mission.  Increased screen time and a guaranteed three lives for the lich equals increased rad procs and increased opportunities for you and your teammates to kill the defense object.

[PublikDomain]

Just now, MqToasty said:

Really now?  Maybe you are just particularly blessed then.  I wonder how many other pub players can honestly claim to have gone two months, let alone an entire year without having failed a mission.  Increased screen time and a guaranteed three lives for the lich equals increased rad procs and increased opportunities for you and your teammates to kill the defense object.

Yes. Not sure if you've noticed, but Warframe is kind of an easy game. The vast majority of mission types don't even have failure conditions.

And I can see how increased lifespan could mean more chances for a proc. Which is why it's a good idea to keep your Lich low level so it spends its whole lifespan on the ground. Maybe that's why I haven't experienced this mythical difficulty in PUGs... 🤔

[EmberStar]

20 minutes ago, MqToasty said:

Really now?  Maybe you are just particularly blessed then.  I wonder how many other pub players can honestly claim to have gone two months, let alone an entire year without having failed a mission.  Increased screen time and a guaranteed three lives for the lich equals increased rad procs and increased opportunities for you and your teammates to kill the defense object.

That would be part of why I try to *avoid* letting my Lich/Sister level up.  At lower ranks they have less powers to use, and often don't seem to get the one with Rad Procs until they've ranked up once or twice.  With the increased Murmur gain, it's possible to get enough while they're still at Level 1.  (Not necessarily easy, since sometimes not every node seems to be available on the starting planet.)  I've gotten rid of the last two Sisters with only one failed guess, which is unusual but not impossible.

[MqToasty]

8 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Yes. Not sure if you've noticed, but Warframe is kind of an easy game. The vast majority of mission types don't even have failure conditions.

And I can see how increased lifespan could mean more chances for a proc. Which is why it's a good idea to keep your Lich low level so it spends its whole lifespan on the ground. Maybe that's why I haven't experienced this mythical difficulty in PUGs... 🤔

Warframe is an easy game.  And while most mission types are incredibly difficult to fail, you are the one who claimed to have never failed a PUG mission.  So unless you never play Defense or Mobile Defense in a PUG, then you must be blessed by the gods or something.

Well, you do you.  I sincerely hope your gods continue blessing you and grant you only the no-stab PUGs you love so much.

[MqToasty]

3 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

That would be part of why I try to *avoid* letting my Lich/Sister level up.  At lower ranks they have less powers to use, and often don't seem to get the one with Rad Procs until they've ranked up once or twice.  With the increased Murmur gain, it's possible to get enough while they're still at Level 1.  (Not necessarily easy, since sometimes not every node seems to be available on the starting planet.)  I've gotten rid of the last two Sisters with only one failed guess, which is unusual but not impossible.

I can understand why you would want to keep your lich weak and low-leveled.  But if everyone else is contributing to your massive murmur gain and letting their lich level up, are you not leeching off of them if you never stab?  Murmur gain is much faster than before, but part of it is due to most people stabbing.  It will not be nearly this fast if no one stabbed.

[Killa_Byte]

Bots alive and well in lameframe

[Danielw8]

Just trolling at this point, they not even answer ingame

3 minutes ago, Killa_Byte said:

Bots alive and well in lameframe

I agree

[(PSN)kadeliza740]

Ultimately this is just another of the "people aren't playing the 'right' way" topics we have always had similar to the "randos' be nuking yo" and "people just B-line the exit and don't take their time" we have had before. Maybe just learn to except that other will do things differently and stop trying to control them?

1 hour ago, MqToasty said:

Well, you do you.  I sincerely hope your gods continue blessing you and grant you only the no-stab PUGs you love so much.

Whilst I think you might like to give the side-seat gaming a rest I DO wish you and others to find you're own happy place.

[PublikDomain]

2 minutes ago, MqToasty said:

you are the one who claimed to have never failed a PUG mission

* In the past year or so, yeah. It's not hard when you're not bad.

2 minutes ago, MqToasty said:

So unless you never play Defense or Mobile Defense in a PUG, then you must be blessed by the gods or something.

No no, I never lose a Defense or Mobile Defense. Not unless it's bugged or from 4-5 years ago when you could actually fail missions once in a while. If you're losing Defenses or Mobile Defenses these days... That's more a reflection on you I think.

6 minutes ago, MqToasty said:

I sincerely hope your gods continue blessing you and grant you only the no-stab PUGs you love so much.

Thanks, you too!

[MqToasty]

1 minute ago, PublikDomain said:

* In the past year or so, yeah. It's not hard when you're not bad.

Hey, don't start walking back now...  You gotta remember to double down on your outrageous claims like this one:

46 minutes ago, MqToasty said:

Because none of the PUGs I've run have failed a mission.

 

5 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

No no, I never lose a Defense or Mobile Defense. Not unless it's bugged or from 4-5 years ago when you could actually fail missions once in a while. If you're losing Defenses or Mobile Defenses these days... That's more a reflection on you I think.

Right, so it's my fault that a PUG player decided to shoot the defense object during a Radiation Sortie Mobile Defense.  Well, you're not completely wrong.  It was my mistake to start that mission while set to Public.  Since I do not love playing with others nearly as much as you do, going solo immediately fixed the problem.

[PublikDomain]

Just now, MqToasty said:

Hey, don't start walking back now...  You gotta remember to double down on your outrageous claims like this one:

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

Because none of the PUGs I've run have failed a mission. Never mind Sisters, I probably haven't failed a mission - outside of bugs or aborts - in the last year.

???

1 minute ago, MqToasty said:

Since I do not love playing with others nearly as much as you do, going solo immediately fixed the problem.

Glad you now understand how to resolve your issue with what players in PUGs do. Go solo or make a party, then you can enforce whatever rules you want. To borrow from what @EmberStar said, if you're in a random group you're going to get random people behaving randomly. You have zero control over what PUGs do and no amount of crying about it will change that. If you really expect random people to inconvenience themselves for your sake then you're only going to be disappointed.

[(PSN)thowed]

Because they're only in public to mooch off of the people who do stab and not return the favor.  Any other explanation still cannot explain away that part.  Why play public if you have no intention of stabbing?  Because just killing hounds won't fill your parazon meter as fast as mooching off of others 

[MqToasty]

2 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Because none of the PUGs I've run have failed a mission. Never mind Sisters, I probably haven't failed a mission - outside of bugs or aborts - in the last year.

I do not know if English is your first language and perhaps this is just a language barrier, but your two sentences make separate claims.  The first concerns PUGs.  You claim to have never failed a PUG mission.  The second is an expanded claim on all missions in the last year.  You claim to have probably never failed any mission in the last year (with stipulations on bugs and aborts).  While only DE can prove or disprove your claim with their server logs, the fact that you tried to walk the first claim back tells me that you are either dishonest or have trouble accurately remembering your gaming record.

12 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Glad you now understand how to resolve your issue with what players in PUGs do. Go solo or make a party, then you can enforce whatever rules you want. To borrow from what @EmberStar said, if you're in a random group you're going to get random people behaving randomly. You have zero control over what PUGs do and no amount of crying about it will change that. If you really expect random people to inconvenience themselves for your sake then you're only going to be disappointed.

I'm not here to enforce rules or change what others do.  The only reason I play murmur PUGs is to maximize my murmur gain.  And I give back by always stabbing my lich when she shows up.  If enough players choose not to stab, then I will stop playing PUGs and go solo as that will be faster.  I am okay with either outcome, but just have very little respect for those who keep trying to rationalize their own leeching as "personal choice".

[sitfesz]

Oull doesn't reveal S#&$. After stabbing with oull, you will only see oull in the stab history as a succesful stab.

If you know the first requiem, you should put that requiem mod into the first slot and stab instantly. You get the second requiem and the first stab was a fail? Just switch them and push your luck, because if you are not stabbing, you won't ever get the order. If you know the first two, you will know the third.

The oull requiem mod is useful when you know the requiem and the order too before you even get to know the third requiem. Otherwise oull is just recommended to be in the last slot if the first two stab got lucky, the oull as third is a clear go to. Oull can also be good if you only discovered one requiem and you already know it's not the first. With oull, you can stab first and discover whether the known mod would be second or third.

I always had my first requiem before the first sister invade, the second before the second invade, so not stabbing a sister is a pure certificate of being a dumbfmistake doer.

I didn't do kuva liches after the changes yet, so idk about that.

8 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

It's because of Oull, which lets you kill your Lich after just 3 stabs (4 if you're unlucky) and save time overall.

It was the same before oull, if you discovered requiems before stabs. The most unlucky is 1st stab (with 1st known requiem) wrong, then 2nd stab (with 2nd known requiem) wrong, 3rd first stab fix (with 3rd known requiem), second stab wrong (with eiter 1st or 2nd requiem), 4th stab whole combo is know from the previous.

Oull is great, because you can get lucky easier with it, or if you got lucky in the first two stabs, you can just finish it with an oull before even knowing the third.

[PublikDomain]

11 minutes ago, MqToasty said:

I do not know if English is your first language and perhaps this is just a language barrier, but your two sentences make separate claims.  The first concerns PUGs.  You claim to have never failed a PUG mission.  The second is an expanded claim on all missions in the last year.  You claim to have probably never failed any mission in the last year (with stipulations on bugs and aborts).  While only DE can prove or disprove your claim with their server logs, the fact that you tried to walk the first claim back tells me that you are either dishonest or have trouble accurately remembering your gaming record.

I don't know if English is your first language, and perhaps this is just a language barrier, but in English there's something called "context". If I say "he went to the store" and we've been talking about Bob, I'm not talking about Tim. In that context "he" means Bob, because we've been talking about Bob and not Tim. So when we're talking about running PUGs in Sisters and Lich missions and failing due to rad procs, and I say that I haven't had any PUGs fail a mission... What's the context? And then I make a second statement, which you've clearly understood was a separate claim, that never mind Sisters - which is another way to say "outside of Sisters" or "aside from Sisters" - I probably haven't had a mission fail in the last year or so. I have 302 mission failures over eight years, and you're free to check my profile. Most of those are probably from when Warframe wasn't so easy that you could actually fail a mission once in a while, and the rest are probably random Sortie Spys. None of them are related to Liches rad-proccing teammates that nuke a defense objective.

9 minutes ago, MqToasty said:

but just have very little respect for those who keep trying to rationalize their own leeching as "personal choice".

And the people disagreeing with you have very little respect for those who keep trying to shame others into playing the way they want in PUGs. Stabbing when you don't have a hint to test is counterproductive, and the expectation that people are going to shoot themselves in the foot for some stranger that's going to immediately leave the squad and never be seen again is ridiculous. Every single behaviour in PUGs is "personal choice", and if you don't like that too bad - you can play in premades or by yourself. It's what Recruiting chat is for.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Could be a few reasons, concern over a powerful Lich/Sister, or also just efficiency/time saving. The murmur progression is so fast now, that many people will find out a Requiem mid second mission, then have their Sister appear. Like, they could have a guess, or you could just wait and have a much higher chance of getting some info by slotting in a known quantity (either a correct requiem or order info) plus the time involved in raising the Sisters anger/annoyance vs probability of showing up again soon. Of course there are advantages to just guessing if you are in a group as well, so really comes down to diverging preferences. 

Personally I don't mind if randoms don't stab their Sister/Lich. Ideally, if thats their strat, they also won't mind if the rest of us down their Sister enough times so they leave (which also means they make some sort of attempt to be there when they are downed, so we know they don't actually want to actively stab them) just so other peoples Sisters will spawn in case they do want to stab. In random groups, I personally always stab, because I don't mind harder Sisters, and I know it can help with others progress. If I am ever in a situation, where I would rather not stab if I am close to some threshold, I just go solo. One exception, is if I learn a Requiem mid mission, and other randoms Sisters appear before mine, and no one stabs, we just down them. Then I don't feel as bad about doing the same, just to save time. Has happened twice so far. 

That also being said... I mean, I have had games where all three other randoms didn't want to stab, games where all three others did stab, and some with a mix of both. Its clear that there are two distinct play styles with this, and I think with a bit of courtesy and etiquette, both can co-exist. When I play with randoms I expect nothing, if I want a more controlled environment I play solo or with friends. 

[MqToasty]

58 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

I don't know if English is your first language, and perhaps this is just a language barrier, but in English there's something called "context". If I say "he went to the store" and we've been talking about Bob, I'm not talking about Tim. In that context "he" means Bob, because we've been talking about Bob and not Tim. So when we're talking about running PUGs in Sisters and Lich missions and failing due to rad procs, and I say that I haven't had any PUGs fail a mission... What's the context? And then I make a second statement, which you've clearly understood was a separate claim, that never mind Sisters - which is another way to say "outside of Sisters" or "aside from Sisters" - I probably haven't had a mission fail in the last year or so. I have 302 mission failures over eight years, and you're free to check my profile. Most of those are probably from when Warframe wasn't so easy that you could actually fail a mission once in a while, and the rest are probably random Sortie Spys. None of them are related to Liches rad-proccing teammates that nuke a defense objective.

The back-and-forth that resulted in your claims started with your question, "You fail missions?"  You expanded the context from just lich missions in this thread to all missions in the game.  If not, why would you bother to flaunt your record for the whole year when Corpus liches have only been around for 2 weeks?  But if that was not your intent, then I must apologize because I gave you the wrong answer -- I have not failed a lich mission yet, but only because I intentionally avoid Defense and Mobile Defense when playing PUG lich missions.

Okay, I just checked your profile and...  Why am I not surprised at seeing a 9% quit rate...  I guess that's one way to not fail?  I have been playing the game for less than a year, make no claims about being a good player or even good gamer in general, and you can feel free to check my profile and draw whatever conclusions you wish.

58 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And the people disagreeing with you have very little respect for those who keep trying to shame others into playing the way they want in PUGs. Stabbing when you don't have a hint to test is counterproductive, and the expectation that people are going to shoot themselves in the foot for some stranger that's going to immediately leave the squad and never be seen again is ridiculous. Every single behaviour in PUGs is "personal choice", and if you don't like that too bad - you can play in premades or by yourself. It's what Recruiting chat is for.

In the part of my response you so conveniently cut out, I made my intentions clear.  I'm not here to change how you play.  I just don't want you to get away with your hypocrisy on why you do what you do.  Don't forget your claim about sticking with groups that do not stab.  Good luck grinding your ass off on group after group without suckers for you to exploit.

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, MqToasty said:

The back-and-forth that resulted in your claims started with your question, "You fail missions?"  You expanded the context from just lich missions in this thread to all missions in the game.  If not, why would you bother to flaunt your record for the whole year when Corpus liches have only been around for 2 weeks?   But if that was not your intent, then I must apologize because I gave you the wrong answer -- I have not failed a lich mission yet, but only because I intentionally avoid Defense and Mobile Defense when playing PUG lich missions.

Yes, we can all read. You said that not stabbing your Lich right away makes the mission liable to fail because of rad procs, and that's simply not true. You've got about the same odds being hit by a bus. Even beyond the minuscule chance of doing a mission that can actually fail and having a teammate with a Rad Lich/Sister and having it actually show up and having someone get procced and having that result in the objective being destroyed... Mission failures barely ever happen anyways. I probably haven't had one in a year. It might sound unbelievable if you've only been around that long, but like I said Warframe is an easy game. Missions barely ever fail when you have even half a clue what you're doing, and even if a mission did fail you just... run it again. Big shrug. Hiding from Defense and Mobile Defense because you're scared of rad procs is silly and hardly a reason to expect strangers to go out of their way and hinder themselves just for your benefit.

1 hour ago, MqToasty said:

Okay, I just checked your profile and...  Why am I not surprised at seeing a 9% quit rate...  I guess that's one way to not fail?  I have been playing the game for less than a year, make no claims about being a good player or even good gamer in general, and you can feel free to check my profile and draw whatever conclusions you wish.

Ok? There are other vets in this thread with higher quit rates than me, it's just something that comes with the territory. (ETA: Like, I just quit another one because the Granum statue didn't spawn until the last tile and wouldn't have generated a new Sister. Happens all the time. I would certainly hope this isn't surprising.) And I don't know what conclusions you expect me to draw, all it tells me is that you're new. Which is fine, but you're being paranoid and overly cautious and you probably have the wrong idea about how PUGs work. You should understand that PUGs don't owe you anything and are going to do whatever they want to do, and the only thing you can do about that is accept it. Zero people reading your posts shaming them are going to change their ways, nor should they. You do you, boo. That's the PUG way.

1 hour ago, MqToasty said:

In the part of my response you so conveniently cut out, I made my intentions clear.  I'm not here to change how you play.  I just don't want you to get away with your hypocrisy on why you do what you do. 

Hypocrisy? How? I don't stab if I don't want to, and I don't expect others to stab if they don't want to. What's hypocritical about that?

1 hour ago, MqToasty said:

Don't forget your claim about sticking with groups that do not stab. Good luck grinding your ass off on group after group without suckers for you to exploit.

Of course, as we've gone over I couldn't care less if people don't stab - it makes zero difference to me. A few people didn't stab yesterday and I kept playing. Why wouldn't I? It's a PUG! Who cares? I'm not gonna REE out and lose the progress I've made and have to restart the mission just because of someone doing their own thing.

[LillyRaccune]

1 hour ago, MqToasty said:

Okay, I just checked your profile and...  Why am I not surprised at seeing a 9% quit rate...  I guess that's one way to not fail? 

Perhaps you are one of those players that think MR30 and MR31 should be respected because obviously those players are experts and "veterans"? Profile stats are just that, statistics. Maybe I'm an expert Eidolon Hunter on ps4 with 600 caps and 300 kills under my belt, but on PC I can't join a decent squad because my profile stats don't reflect that and some players are sticklers for "Eidolon Résumés".

Reality check: players that have been around for more than a year start to value their time more than having a perfect 100% win/lose/quit ratio. I've had to quit plenty of missions because I forgot to equip a dragon key, I wanted to go solo, there was a white-energy frame or weapon in play, and of course I have occationally rage quit because of personalities or AFKers.

On to the thread topic: Before the Sisters of Parvos update, brute forcing and max leveling liches was the most time-effective means of farming a lich. Now that the update has changed a lot of the dynamic, the farm is faster by not brute forcing and max leveling the lich-sisters. Simple math.

Maybe you should join squads that will all agree to always stab their lich-sis. But I am confident that more and more players will opt to not stab because it farms faster. If it's the hard way or the easy way, most will pick easy.

[MqToasty]

4 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

Perhaps you are one of those players that think MR30 and MR31 should be respected because obviously those players are experts and "veterans"? Profile stats are just that, statistics. Maybe I'm an expert Eidolon Hunter on ps4 with 600 caps and 300 kills under my belt, but on PC I can't join a decent squad because my profile stats don't reflect that and some players are sticklers for "Eidolon Résumés".

Reality check: players that have been around for more than a year start to value their time more than having a perfect 100% win/lose/quit ratio. I've had to quit plenty of missions because I forgot to equip a dragon key, I wanted to go solo, there was a white-energy frame or weapon in play, and of course I have occationally rage quit because of personalities or AFKers.

On to the thread topic: Before the Sisters of Parvos update, brute forcing and max leveling liches was the most time-effective means of farming a lich. Now that the update has changed a lot of the dynamic, the farm is faster by not brute forcing and max leveling the lich-sisters. Simple math.

Maybe you should join squads that will all agree to always stab their lich-sis. But I am confident that more and more players will opt to not stab because it farms faster. If it's the hard way or the easy way, most will pick easy.

I only checked your buddy's profile because he asked me to, in an attempt to prove how he "never fails PUGs".  And why would you even assume I would give any deference based on MR?  If I did, shouldn't I be groveling at your buddy's Legendary 1 feet?  I judge people by their actions, and I'm not buying any of the crap your "I never fail PUGs" buddy is shoveling.

[DoomFruit]

12 hours ago, TheRealsemaJ said:

just don't understand the reasoning behind not wanting to level it up

That is its own reason. I don't want it levelling up. Full stop. Bullet sponges are bad enough, but now DE have made them even spongier.

And I only ever do public missions when I do not expect to find my lich and need the extra spawns to guarantee a full 10 thralls (read: anger level is low), those are basically defence and survival. If it appears, I'll shoot it until it runs away, but I will not parazon it unless I have a known mod which needs a position testing.

[Tesseract7777]

5 hours ago, MqToasty said:

Really now?  Maybe you are just particularly blessed then.  I wonder how many other pub players can honestly claim to have gone two months, let alone an entire year without having failed a mission.  Increased screen time and a guaranteed three lives for the lich equals increased rad procs and increased opportunities for you and your teammates to kill the defense object.

I play almost exclusively PUG/Solo, and I cannot remember the last time I failed a mission in living memory, outside of on purpose aborts in missions like where I am looking for specific Lich weapons or something, and the very rare times I've done a spy public and someone messed up.

How do you even lose in Warframe?

Just walk into a mission with no DPS? If you think it is that hard to win in PUG's I honestly don't know what game you are playing, and I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about. Are you walking in ungeared and expecting everyone else to carry you? Even then how are you managing to lose? 

[PublikDomain]

33 minutes ago, MqToasty said:

I judge people by their actions, and I'm not buying any of the crap your "I never fail PUGs" buddy is shoveling.

Well that's because you took what I said to mean "I have never ever failed a mission ever" which obviously isn't what I wrote. "Is English your first language" and all that nonsense.

6 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I play almost exclusively PUG/Solo, and I cannot remember the last time I failed a mission in living memory, outside of on purpose aborts in missions like where I am looking for specific Lich weapons or something, and the very rare times I've done a spy public and someone messed up.

How do you even lose in Warframe?

Just walk into a mission with no DPS? 

tbf he's pretty new, so I'm not particularly surprised by his aversion to mission types that can be failed. I wouldn't be surprised if he had strong opinions about Sortie Spys as well. He'll learn eventually. 🤷‍♀️

[MqToasty]

3 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I play almost exclusively PUG/Solo, and I cannot remember the last time I failed a mission in living memory, outside of on purpose aborts in missions like where I am looking for specific Lich weapons or something, and the very rare times I've done a spy public and someone messed up.

How do you even lose in Warframe?

Just walk into a mission with no DPS? If you think it is that hard to win in PUG's I honestly don't know what game you are playing, and I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about. Are you walking in ungeared and expecting everyone else to carry you? Even then how are you managing to lose? 

So you do remember failing public Spy Sorties?  I guess you just got lucky with public Mobile Defense Radiation Sorties, like the one we got a few weeks ago?

No, it would actually be fine if we all walked into missions with no DPS.  The problem is going into a mission armed to the teeth like we always are, and then getting Rad proc'd.  Then of course someone is going to shoot out the defense object.  Actually very funny the first time around, but solo for me from then on.  Are you disagreeing that for certain mission modes and conditions, PUGs are harder than solo?

3 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

tbf he's pretty new, so I'm not particularly surprised by his aversion to mission types that can be failed. I wouldn't be surprised if he had strong opinions about Sortie Spys as well. He'll learn eventually. 🤷‍♀️

Yep, unlike you I do not play PUGs simply for the love of playing with other people.  I play PUGs only when it is more efficient farming for something (like Relics or murmurs).  Actually do not have strong opinions about Sortie Spy missions, because incompetence is something we all go through while learning (and Spies, especially, are all about knowledge of specific vault variations).  I find it hard to believe someone will intentionally screw up a Sortie Spy just for kicks, and if I cannot find a competent PUG in one or two tries, then I just run it solo with no hard feelings.

[Teridax68]

This is always a problem that comes up whenever higher Lich levels are meaningful: because stabbing a Lich and getting the wrong combination makes them substantially tougher to kill as they level up, players simply avoid doing that altogether, and would rather spend extra time grinding murmurs in other ways. Because Liches have gone back to becoming bullet sponges with excessive damage, with Sisters being mapped to that as well, some players are now doing everything they can to keep their Lich/Sister at level 1 just for the easier confrontation. This is why, in my opinion, these bosses shouldn't level up when we attempt to kill them, but should instead level up when we leave them alone for large amounts of time, with optional objectives letting us downlevel our Lich or Sister if we put in the time.