Golden Instinct: mere 2 second guidance is often misleading when using AI pathing.

[MaiNeym]

Golden Instinct: 

The Helminth ability you can subsume on warframes, which summons a spark to seek ayatan sculptures etc.  

Problem: 

Since the spark follows the AI pathing it's often misleading when it only guides you for a mere 2 seconds.
Video example:

Suggestion:

Increase the duration that the spark will guide you. So it's easier to tell if it was pointing towards the actual direction, or the stairs for example.
Or decrease the cooldown (and energy cost).

[Aazhyd]

This ability is very underwhelming. It only gives a very short indication of which direction to look in. For the top Helminth ability, I expected something more useful.

[Hobie-wan]

I was hoping to use it to get the blasted Vallis songs scanned, but even boosting it's range to 390 meters I'm still having trouble finding the needle in the haystack. Does it perhaps not scan down into caves when you're above ground?

The Vallis songs are the only scan collectables I don't have done. because they're so frustrating to do.

[-NTB-Cris0407]

Yet it is still make YOU KNOW if there is something or the is not.

And thats the point of this ability I think that You still have to find it Yourself.

[sarasuxatwarframe]

3 hours ago, Hobie-wan said:

I was hoping to use it to get the blasted Vallis songs scanned, but even boosting it's range to 390 meters I'm still having trouble finding the needle in the haystack. Does it perhaps not scan down into caves when you're above ground?

The Vallis songs are the only scan collectables I don't have done. because they're so frustrating to do.

I just tested it, and it's either bugged or doesn't work on Somachords.
I stood on top of a Vallis Somachord that I hadn't scanned yet. Hit Golden Instinct. "Area is Barren".
"Sir, I am looking at the thing..."

[Hobie-wan]

35 minutes ago, sarasuxatwarframe said:

I just tested it, and it's either bugged or doesn't work on Somachords.
I stood on top of a Vallis Somachord that I hadn't scanned yet. Hit Golden Instinct. "Area is Barren".
"Sir, I am looking at the thing..."

Wonderful. 😕

[(NSW)Gamer-Steve]

4 hours ago, sarasuxatwarframe said:

I just tested it, and it's either bugged or doesn't work on Somachords.
I stood on top of a Vallis Somachord that I hadn't scanned yet. Hit Golden Instinct. "Area is Barren".
"Sir, I am looking at the thing..."

That is pretty weird. Did you make a bug report for it?

 

I'd hope that gets fixed in the event DE added Somachords to the PoE and the Cambion Drift at some point. Not to mention the Deadlock Protocol music and TNW (If Somachords would be in that).

[(PSN)DiligentDiamond]

I have to admit this ability is a little underwhelming. I find myself not using it and just returning to my old habit of ground pound everything on the minimap.... worse part is its faster then using the ability. So maybe add cephalon codex entries and soma chords and rare caches to the mix for more viability... not sure.

[(XBOX)LEGOO MAINE 19O]

They really should just remove the cooldown its not really an insane ability since its entirely dependent on if the map even has hidden items or not. They really need to buff it in some way because for the max level helminth ability I expected something a lot better than what we got. 

[Vaml77]

Only do arbitration that comes tons of sculptures....this skill was only to make volume in the helminth. A waste in my view.

[(NSW)Gamer-Steve]

On 2021-07-20 at 4:32 PM, (PSN)DiligentDiamond said:

So maybe add cephalon codex entries and soma chords and rare caches to the mix for more viability... not sure.

Actually it can scan for rare caches, and I would think Cephalon Fragments as well. I think the former would prove quite useful :)

 

I've yet to unlock it myself (At Rank 12-13 on my Helminth), but from what I've read, it sounds like you could reduce the cooldown with Transmutation Probe at least.

[DoomFruit]

On 2021-07-19 at 9:16 AM, Hobie-wan said:

but even boosting it's range to 390 meters

It's got a finite range? Well, that completely kills any use that I would have for it. The only thing I lack but need are the orb vallis songs and scan fragments and that's because I am not going to go searching for a needle in a haystack. If this ability is worthless for doing that, I guess that I just won't bother ranking up helminth to 15.

[LillyRaccune]

33 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

It's got a finite range? Well, that completely kills any use that I would have for it. The only thing I lack but need are the orb vallis songs and scan fragments and that's because I am not going to go searching for a needle in a haystack. If this ability is worthless for doing that, I guess that I just won't bother ranking up helminth to 15.

Agreed. Either this ability works without limitations, or it isn't worth it. The Fortuna songs are my bane too. I just check my favourite bunker that is just East of the Fortuna gates every time I visit.

And the idea that it only functions for two seconds? Not thrilled.

Right now I just use max range Gauss/Limbo/Xaku and vacuum up everything I can find.

Also I think the guidance system should have two and a half separate outputs:

1. The path finder system
2. The compass to my relative position
3. The "more than one found" indicator

There are many times when Warframe's path finding system fails and the green extraction icon is just telling you the exit is "200 meters away" and neglecting the 1000 meters of rooms you need to zigzag through to get there. So the 3D compass would simply give you the general idea of what direction your quandry is, in the unlikely event of "GPS failure".

The more-than-one indicator is self explainitory.

[(NSW)Gamer-Steve]

23 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

Either this ability works without limitations, or it isn't worth it. The Fortuna songs are my bane too. I just check my favourite bunker that is just East of the Fortuna gates every time I visit.

Yeah, I do think a 20-second cooldown is a tad much. But honestly the part I'm not looking forward to is the way the spark travels towards the target. Perhaps if it acted as a dowsing rod & travelled in a straight-ish line through terrain in the exact direction of it's detected target, then that could help you get an idea of where it is. I'll still try using it myself to get the rare crate scans finished eventually (I really hope it counts Reinforced crates as well!), but I'm not 100% sure I'll use it often after that.

 

Regarding the Fortuna fragments, I relied on plenty of loot radar, Archwing, and this reference in order to finish scanning all 7 songs:

• As far as I know these are the only locations a fragment can spawn. With 7 songs to scan, and 4 fragments each, that'd be 28 Vallis Somachord scans.
  
  With it being one guaranteed per map instance, I basically looked for a fragment once or twice a day after getting the daily standing done, and eventually it was finished.
   
  • Unfortunately, I wouldn't be able to test the Golden Instinct bug mentioned above where they aren't detected, since I've scanned those. Hm, perhaps I could test that with The Sacrifice's Fragments, since those are the last ones for me.

 

I hope it helps :)

[LillyRaccune]

23 minutes ago, (NSW)Gamer-Steve said:

I hope it helps :)

Thank you. I'll try it out!

[vanaukas]

Just unlocked this and FOR THE VOID, please rework this. Even Super Jump had more utility than this, seriously,

I thought it was the usual overr reaction from the community, but it isn't

EDIT:

Ok, this are my takes on how to fix it:

- Reducing the cooldown to 5 or less secs (or better yet, a cooldown that ends when the trail ends)

- If reducing the cooldown isn't an option, then the trail should go farther away while in cooldown.

The ability indeed work as intended, but it's a pain to use, because the direction it gives it's just too vague, the lenght of the trail it's too short and the cooldown (20 secs) it's just overkill paired with the aforementioned limitations.

[Schwitzer]

Duration too short, cooldown too long, trail too misleading. 

It would be great if even one of these issues was improved. 

[NekroArts]

8 hours ago, vanaukas said:

I thought it was the usual overr reaction from the community, but it isn't.

Honestly, I think it is an overreaction. The only flaw that bothers me are when I had general idea where it was going but the way it was pathing would result in unclear direction.

For example, there were rooms that had multiple doors around me with a few below/above the y-axis of where I was standing. Using the ability near the center it went behind me, but after checking there was nothing there. After doing a thorough sweep on the room where I cast it, I figured out that it went backwards because it was guiding me to use the catwalk that started behind me leading me to door up, in front of me. I'm hoping that DE will give it a straight-forward pathing and not a detour - just skip the catwalks and detour and go straight towards the door.

Other than that, thorough sweeping of the current room before use, prior knowledge of where it can and can't be, and ideal position of use and it works fine.

In the case of that reddit post where it when through the walls, honestly, waypoint where it went then explore the map using it as a point-of-reference to get close to where it was heading.

[vanaukas]

1 hour ago, NekroArts said:

Honestly, I think it is an overreaction. The only flaw that bothers me are when I had general idea where it was going but the way it was pathing would result in unclear direction.

For example, there were rooms that had multiple doors around me with a few below/above the y-axis of where I was standing. Using the ability near the center it went behind me, but after checking there was nothing there. After doing a thorough sweep on the room where I cast it, I figured out that it went backwards because it was guiding me to use the catwalk that started behind me leading me to door up, in front of me. I'm hoping that DE will give it a straight-forward pathing and not a detour - just skip the catwalks and detour and go straight towards the door.

Other than that, thorough sweeping of the current room before use, prior knowledge of where it can and can't be, and ideal position of use and it works fine.

In the case of that reddit post where it when through the walls, honestly, waypoint where it went then explore the map using it as a point-of-reference to get close to where it was heading.

I think it would be more difficult to achieve that rather than just move some values on cooldown or trail duration, I think that reducing the cooldown will achieve best of all worlds, because a trail with too much duration maybe it's prone to bugs and I've already stateing my opinion on a new pathfinding system.