It's time to nerf Wukong

[BiancaRoughfin]

1 hour ago, Simply_The_Cat said:

His popularity doesn't come from him being OP, it comes from him being the most convenient warframe for everyday usage

Yeah, he can be completely immortal, afk the whole mission, deal double the damage with any weapon without having to stack on any buff or effect. Surely thats not OP right?

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

14 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Yeah, he can be completely immortal, afk the whole mission, deal double the damage with any weapon without having to stack on any buff or effect. Surely thats not OP right?

Name any frame and I'll tell you how it's op. 

[Tiltskillet]

I think he could be a lot more interesting with the right nerfs and buffs.  His 3 and 4 could just be straight-up better.  The clone could be weaker, but the targeting mechanic on it made a lot stronger.  Cloud Walker could cost energy per second, but be more flexible and the crowd control elements improved.

But I think nothing (directly) changing about him is a lot more likely than anything changing about him any time soon.

Welp, no, Pablo actually does sound like he's priming us for some Wuk changes.

[Daskrieg]

This brings back the old crying and whining of the original saryn, people cried and cried about her till they reworked her then they complained and complained since now she wipes maps with almost no effort, honestly no matter what they do they will never satisfy the whiners as they move on from one thing to the other, if they nerf the clone into the ground whats next the near invincible inaros/lavos builds? the best way they can fix it without going total nukefest on the frame would just be figure out how to make it so the clone does not have the ability to use aoe weapons since that is what everyone is crying about, as long as the player is equipped with an aoe weapon maybe make it so the clone uses the secondary weapon and if that also does aoe then its stuck with the players melee weapon.

[Simply_The_Cat]

11 минут назад, (PSN)Madurai-Prime сказал:

Name any frame and I'll tell you how it's op. 

Hydroid :D

 

 

1 час назад, gamingchair1121 сказал:

also it would be easier to just nerf wukong instead of buff the other almost 50 frames, wouldn't it?

And why DE always needs to take the easy path, again? Nerfing the meta won't make useless mastery fodder, gathering dust somewhere at the bottom, better. Even if you'll nerf wukong and AOE weapons it doesn't necessarily mean people will start playing with Stug all of a sudden. 

[SneakyErvin]

Not really a problem if they nerf AoE since we went a long long long time between the first AoE nerfs to the implementation of the new AoE meta that dawned with Bramma and got sanctified with the removal of self damage. We dont need the AoE options to beat any of the content, we simply use it because it is the most efficient way. 

It is strange that it even got implemented in the first place since not that long before it the Catchmoon was rebalanced due to being a massive overperformer. Yet it wasnt even a fraction of the absurdity that nearly all AoE weapons have been since the release of Bramma. I mean, they nerfed Catchmoon, then they release things like Bramma, Tplasmor, Sporelacer secondary, Envoy, Ktonkor, Kogris, Ttetra, Knukor, Tcycron and so on. And ontop of it they benefit the most from all additional things they released to try and help ranged weapons.

[gamingchair1121]

6 minutes ago, Simply_The_Cat said:

And why DE always needs to take the easy path, again? Nerfing the meta won't make useless cannon fodder, gathering dust somewhere at the bottom, better. Even if you'll nerf wukong and AOE weapons it doesn't necessarily mean people will start playing with Stug all of a sudden. 

that's because the stug is one of the worst weapons in the game. you can use it and it can be good, but you need an ungodly amount of buffs that your better off using even a single target weapon. the meta weapons are so good you don't need any other weapons.

this is part of the reason why wukong needs a nerf. he's so good that you don't need to use any other frames. 10% of the community uses and you think he doesn't need a nerf?

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

5 minutes ago, Simply_The_Cat said:

Hydroid :D

 

The only 100% drop rate farming frame. Roar with strength, duration, and range. Kills anything on regular starchart and gives extra loot, which all these low level/mid-tier players actually need. 

Go ahead and type "Hydroid level cap" into YouTube as well. I'll do it for you:

 

[BiancaRoughfin]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Name any frame and I'll tell you how it's op. 

Frost

[ABlindGuyPlays]

12 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Name any frame and I'll tell you how it's op. 

Oberon.

Note: Oberon is my most used frame.

[Simply_The_Cat]

1 минуту назад, gamingchair1121 сказал:

that's because the stug is one of the worst weapons in the game. you can use it and it can be good, but you need an ungodly amount of buffs that your better off using even a single target weapon.

this is part of the reason why wukong needs a nerf. he's so good that you don't need to use any other frames. 10% of the community uses and you think he doesn't need a nerf?

I do believe he doesn't. Most of unpopular warframes have useless or very niche kits that need a very specific setup and an "ungodly" amount of effort to make them work. Like Nyx, or Hydroid, or Inaros that's good only for his sheer amount of meat. Some people, of course, play them out of personal preference in fashionframing or something, but they're still pretty bad. 

[Simply_The_Cat]

3 минуты назад, (PSN)Madurai-Prime сказал:

The only 100% drop rate farming frame. Roar with strength, duration, and range. Kills anything on regular starchart and gives extra loot, which all these low level/mid-tier players actually need. 

Go ahead and type "Hydroid level cap" into YouTube as well. I'll do it for you:

 

Was this vid made before the eximus rework? I'm p sure it just doesn't work anymore. 

[gamingchair1121]

1 minute ago, Simply_The_Cat said:

I do believe he doesn't. Most of unpopular warframes have useless or very niche kits that need a very specific setup and an "ungodly" amount of effort to make them work. Like Nyx, or Hydroid, or Inaros that's good only for his sheer amount of meat. Some people, of course, play them out of personal preference in fashionframing or something, but they're still pretty bad. 

wukong's kit needs basically no effort to use and he's one of the very few frames that's like that. so what's your point? just shows he needs a nerf.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

4 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Frost

Go do Steel Path Kuva Defense with any other defense frame for 20 waves. Frost bubble is the only defense that can handle the barrage of turret damage and protect the objective.

I already shouldn't have to explain his 1 has the damage augment just like ember, Saryn and volt that gives 250+ extra weapon damage which only makes AOE even stronger. 

And his 4 strips armor. 

7 minutes ago, ABlindGuyPlays said:

Oberon.

Note: Oberon is my most used frame.

Ok you got me there lol. But I will test and get back to you. He is/was meta for eidolons at one point and his grass is still a low level nuke. I literally haven't played him since 2019.

Doesn't mean some youtuber hasn't found a way to make him OP.

[Simply_The_Cat]

3 минуты назад, gamingchair1121 сказал:

wukong's kit needs basically no effort to use and he's one of the very few frames that's like that. so what's your point? just shows he needs a nerf.

Imo it only shows that his kit is good enough that it doesn't need any tweaks or buffs. it just works. You don't need a super-minmaxed very specific build for him to be enjoyable. 
All of his skills synergize together, mainly working around the twin: when he copies your 3rd, heals when you fly in 2nd, also picks up a staff(IIRC) when you use 4th. Not all warframe have that amount of consistency in their kits. 
Wisp is another example of great kit balancing. All of her abilities except for 4th are pretty good and work well together, she has some variety and flexibility when it comes to builds and stuff. Like she can be a great support with her flowers, but also you can make use of her infinite invisibility passive for damage, flowers can focus on range or durability and both ways are good for their own situations, you can also teleport to them through her 3rd which IIRC buffs the 3rd ability's aoe range, etc-etc. 
Same goes for Ember after the last rework, with her kit being based around the heat gain from 2nd ability, similar to Gauss. 

[CosoMalvadoNG]

28 minutes ago, Simply_The_Cat said:

 

And why DE always needs to take the easy path, again? Nerfing the meta won't make useless mastery fodder, gathering dust somewhere at the bottom, better. Even if you'll nerf wukong and AOE weapons it doesn't necessarily mean people will start playing with Stug all of a sudden. 

If that meta breaks the fun of the game then it needs to be fixed.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

39 minutes ago, Simply_The_Cat said:

Was this vid made before the eximus rework? I'm p sure it just doesn't work anymore. 

it's working  but obviously the cc doesn't work on the eximus but for the general mob it works just as well. The Breach Surge working fine in the eximus. 
It's not that it's a big hydroid thing either, even with this build it's just not bad as it normally is, mediocre at best.

[Berzerkules]

On 2022-08-04 at 8:27 AM, vanaukas said:

The AOE bros are loosing their minds already and the nerfs aren't here yet, start gathering popcorns because we are about to watch new saltiness levels.

What a great community we have here. Players will take pleasure mocking others when DE breaks their toys instead of addressing the root of the problem. 

[gamingchair1121]

15 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Frost bubble is the only defense that can handle the barrage of turret damage and protect the objective.

limbo's 4

[bonamb]

48 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Name any frame and I'll tell you how it's op. 

This is kinda a false equivalence. Warframe is a game all about power fantasies, so each warframe is generally "Op" with at least one thing, but very few are on wukongs level for being "Op" at everything, and as such are used by a massive proportion of the community. Its literally shown in the usage stats Pablo just posted on his twitter! (wukong is the one in the top right). 

 

[nslay]

14 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

What a great community we have here. Players will take pleasure mocking others when DE breaks their toys instead of addressing the root of the problem. 

And what was that problem again? Ah right... the weapons and enemies are unbalanced at the normal start chart levels.

 But never you mind that! We just nerf AoE and the "problem" is solved!

[Berzerkules]

9 minutes ago, nslay said:

And what was that problem again? Ah right... the weapons and enemies are unbalanced at the normal start chart levels.

 But never you mind that! We just nerf AoE and the "problem" is solved!

We'll finally get that co-op experience we all want once AoE gets nerfed. Lith fissures will be amazing now that everyone will get to contribute. 

[CosoMalvadoNG]

50 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Go do Steel Path Kuva Defense with any other defense frame for 20 waves. Frost bubble is the only defense that can handle the barrage of turret damage and protect the objective.

I already shouldn't have to explain his 1 has the damage augment just like ember, Saryn and volt that gives 250+ extra weapon damage which only makes AOE even stronger. 

And his 4 strips armor. 

hahahahaha hahahaha hahahahah

- On the steel path in round twenty you could put 20 layers of shield with frost and it would take  5 seconds to disappear and with the low amount of energy that frost has that is useless.
- The 1 augment is decent at least.
- 100% strip need 250% of ability strength. Don't work on eximus. Hilarious.

[Tyreaus]

45 minutes ago, Simply_The_Cat said:

Imo it only shows that his kit is good enough that it doesn't need any tweaks or buffs. it just works. You don't need a super-minmaxed very specific build for him to be enjoyable. 
All of his skills synergize together, mainly working around the twin: when he copies your 3rd, heals when you fly in 2nd, also picks up a staff(IIRC) when you use 4th. Not all warframe have that amount of consistency in their kits. 
Wisp is another example of great kit balancing. All of her abilities except for 4th are pretty good and work well together, she has some variety and flexibility when it comes to builds and stuff. Like she can be a great support with her flowers, but also you can make use of her infinite invisibility passive for damage, flowers can focus on range or durability and both ways are good for their own situations, you can also teleport to them through her 3rd which IIRC buffs the 3rd ability's aoe range, etc-etc. 
Same goes for Ember after the last rework, with her kit being based around the heat gain from 2nd ability, similar to Gauss. 

I think you're missing a point gamingchair1121 is making: the effort side.

I don't personally agree that his entire kit is effortless, certainly not moreso than other kits. His 2 eases navigation but so does Titania's 4, his 3 is a good counter / temp-invulnerability move but so is Harrow's 4. _{I guess Rhino's Iron Skin or Nezha's Warding Halo are closer analogues now that I give it some more thought...} They might be debatably more powerful versions, perhaps too powerful, but they're not treading new ground in the effort department.

However, his 1 does stand out as having minimal effort, well beyond the rest of his kit or other extant abilities. Once its activated, so long as you don't trigger the AFK mechanism, it just does most things for you. A very close analogue would be Ember's old World on Fire, which I recall being taken out because it was too low effort for its benefit, effectively able to play the game for the player. And that was with ability damage that would hardly tickle Celestial Twin's tail.

When something gets that close to the effort level of a thing removed specifically for its effort level, it's a bit of a red flag.

[(XBOX)DragonMan 2700]

2 hours ago, gamingchair1121 said:

no he does need a nerf. 10% of the community using him is way too high for a single frame. it should be around 1-5% per frame.

^{also I hope his usage lowers after the aoe nerf, I'm really tired of seeing one just about every mission}

^{like seriously even new players have him}

I agree PLZ don't nerf ¦ SON WUKONG ¦ 

I believe the reason so many new players have him is because base Wukong is in the tenno lab / mistwalker heals (moving through lasers)

Not the twin really, I mean even if you nerfed twin then people will still use Wukong and his twin, just a lil differently unless you nerf him into the ground (to death ☠️) folks will sill use Wukong. 

 

What I prepose is DE moves Wukong's acquisition somewhere else. Why? Saryn she used to be obtainable from the pharoid* (now its Nyx I think) and Saryn located at Kela de Thayn now which adds more steps to acquisition. Note the reason I've used Saryn as an example is because she can melt the room and I'd say that's stronger than Wukong in some instances (faster kills then his twin). So, if we, DE moved Son Wukong else were further away from newer players then I think we wouldn't have such a over abundance of Monkeys jumping on the bed. 👍